MovieChat Forums > Star Trek Into Darkness (2013) Discussion > Like the other guy said, I just don't ge...

Like the other guy said, I just don't get all the hate AT ALL.....


This will be considerably long


Now I want to say first that I respect all fans of the original Star Trek tv series/movies 100%. And I understand everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.


In my opinion, Into Darkness does what a sequel should and then some. I loved the 2009 film(despite Eric Bana's Nero leaving much to be desired), but this one was even better.

So please explain and tell me why you like/dislike or agree/disagree:


1. John Harrison-Benedict Cumberbatch gave one of the best performances as a villain in recent memory as Khan IMO; but apparently "he's a 9/11 terrorist/he's white unlike the original? What's the problem?

2."The New movies suck!"-I know many die-hard fans personally who dislike this one(especially) and the 2009 film.


3. "JJ Abrams doesn't know (expletive) about Star Trek!"

4. Into Darkness is a propaganda film

5. "Khan is too Superman like" "Using his blood to resurrect Kirk was dumb/predictable"

6. "The scene with Alice Eve was stupid!" (As a straight male I don't get why this would be a problem)

7. It doesn't bring anything new?- This one I can kind of agree with-as there IS a Star Trek film out there called " Wrath of Khan"

8. It doesn't service Trekkies!

9. Star Trek Into Darkness is stupid?

Thoughts?


That's all I can think of for now, and too, for those who are die-hard fans of the original Trek films/shows I'd appreciate some recommendations.

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from joshismvp:

So please explain and tell me why you like/dislike or agree/disagree:


1. John Harrison-Benedict Cumberbatch gave one of the best performances as a villain in recent memory as Khan IMO; but apparently "he's a 9/11 terrorist/he's white unlike the original? What's the problem?


What's the point in having him as Khan? He's Khan in name only simply as fan service. Add on top of that, he's stupid. He wants revenge on Robo-cop and he decides to try to shoot him through the windows!

2."The New movies suck!"-I know many die-hard fans personally who dislike this one(especially) and the 2009 film.


Because they do. The story is idiotic and there is ZERO character development.

3. "JJ Abrams doesn't know (expletive) about Star Trek!"


He stated that he didn't "get" Trek when it was first on. Straight from the horse's mouth.

4. Into Darkness is a propaganda film


It is. As the national education continues to decline, so do the movies to stay in line with the populace.

5. "Khan is too Superman like" "Using his blood to resurrect Kirk was dumb/predictable"


Blood that can cure DEATH. Brilliant! ξ€›

6. "The scene with Alice Eve was stupid!" (As a straight male I don't get why this would be a problem)


Because it was POINTLESS! Clearly you fall within these "writers" target demographic. ξ€›

7. It doesn't bring anything new?- This one I can kind of agree with-as there IS a Star Trek film out there called " Wrath of Khan"


Kind of? ξ€›

8. It doesn't service Trekkies!


Throwing in quips and references to TOS is cheap and patronizing not to mention tacky, pointless and half-ass.

9. Star Trek Into Darkness is stupid?


Duhhhhh....Even critics that gave positive reviews stated this.

"You don't like Beethoven."

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Thanks for responding.

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Well I enjoyed this movie better than the original Star Trek, which bores me to tears.

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I like the 2009 movie, but I love this one; mainly due to Benedict Cumberbatch

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This movie was such a disaster. Just checked in to see the user rating, shocked it's as high as it is.

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How is this movie a disaster? It's the highest grossing Trek film both unadjusted and adjusted for inflation as well as being one of the best reviewed films in the series.

If you want a disaster go watch the majority of the original series and next generation movies. With the exception of maybe 3 entries, they're either campier than camp or boring beyond comprehension.

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If you want a disaster go watch the majority of the original series and next generation movies. With the exception of maybe 3 entries, they're either campier than camp or boring beyond comprehension.


Yeah. Such a "disaster" that they spawned numerous spinoff shows, movies, novels, comics, videogames, etc, for the next 40 years and have millions and millions of fans all around the world.

What are you, 12?

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Yeah the old ST movies/TV series are pretty dull. I'm glad they did the revoot

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That whole thing reads as someone whining and crying so hard they're sucking wind and choking back tears.


"Neckbeards hate and ruin everything."

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Ha ha! Agreed!

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Great movie! Cumberbatch did a great job as Khan as I found him sinister, methodical, and as daunting of a villain as could be. I think it's the best of the 3 new Star Treks so far. The 2009, first entry, is excellent too. Star Trek Beyond was very disappointing.

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It's illegal to enjoy anything on the internet.

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LOL apparently so haha.

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It's not politically correct to criticize Star Trek Into Darkness. Recognizing that it was unrelentingly stupid is very upsetting to some people.

Janet! Donkeys!

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Benedict Cumberbatch stole this movie!! He was definitely the star in this. I don't even remember anybody else in this movie! OMG he is incredible actor.

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Seems so! He'll have to come back down the line since he's back in stasis! They'll lose power at Star Fleet and somehow all of them will take over the Earth like the good old days! lol!

- - http://scifiblogs3.blogspot.com/ - - Sci-fi, Batman, and E:FC

- - http://www.childrenofrassilon.com/ - - Homage to DW & B7

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I didn't like the movie, it had good effects and some decent acting but it just didn't seem to have any idea what story it wanted to tell. Making Harrison, Khan made no sense in universe as no one knows who that guy is, it just seemed like Abrams and Co had no story, which for interviews seems to be true, and just went to along and filmed a bunch of stuff and mashed it together.

There isn't anything technically wrong with the movie but it just wasn't engaging.

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Completely respect your opinion. Thanks.

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Also, politeness is illegal on the internet.πŸ˜€


So this is planet Houston

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Let me see if I can explain this well enough....

It comes down to a question of what Star Trek is at its core. Is Star Trek intelligent plot-based science fiction that explores the foundations of humanity itself and our own place in the cosmos viewed through the prism of an idealized future where the human race has stamped out poverty and war (at least amongst its own people) with an imagined technology that is at least loosely based in and inspired by genuine scientific reality.....or is it dudes just constantly fighting other dudes with weird tattoos, and motorcycle chases, and Jack Bauer gun fights, and base jumping, and Star Wars prequel Jedi level vertical leaps of 20 feet upwards onto a moving platform?

Now there's certainly room for both intelligent plot and some action sequences. The best episodes and movies combine the two. The worst have neither (and admittedly there are some of those flops, too).

But the new films? What are they about? They make absolutely no sense. I'm still trying to figure out why rebooted Kirk--a man with no experience or qualifications, a guy who never even finished academy training--is granted and later confirmed captaincy of a starship. That alone undermines the entire franchise. That the captain's chair is just given to anyone who with an ounce of aptitude and some good fortune.

These new movies are substance-less eye candy. They're glitzy and impressive and pumped full of lens flare with the expectation that you'll be too busy rubbing your scorched eyes to notice that everything about them is completely nonsensical, illogical, and scientifically impossible.

Abrams essentially took the Star Trek title and plastered it onto a pair of stories that bears zero resemblance to anything that anyone who likes Star Trek would recognize. He added the iconic character names and threw in a few quality fanboy references....and then removed everything else of substance and quality that made the series beloved for half a century. Had he called his movie Space Journey and just did all the same stuff with a few homages, it could have been fine. The movie still would have been devoid a coherent plot or any scientifically realistic action, but it would have been a decent standalone popcorn movie. But calling it Star Trek just because you want the built-in audience name recognition just spits on the franchise many of us adore.

Imagine a reboot of Harry Potter (a very well written coming of age story against a magical backdrop) where 11-year-old Harry is now a motorcycle-riding bad boy who brings an arsenal of high-capacity guns to school and shoots up Death Eaters while, himself, using a magic potion to make himself impervious to bullets. It's not Harry Potter just because you slap cheap glasses and a henna scar tattoo on a British child actor and give him a wand. Now, if you want to write a story about a bad-ass pre-teen who goes on a Liam Neeson style killing spree of bad guys, then write that movie and sell it. But don't call it Harry Potter just because it makes the advertising easier.

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And to a couple of your explicit points.....

1. John Harrison-Benedict Cumberbatch gave one of the best performances as a villain in recent memory as Khan IMO; but apparently "he's a 9/11 terrorist/he's white unlike the original? What's the problem

5. "Khan is too Superman like" "Using his blood to resurrect Kirk was dumb/predictable"


The character Khan Noonien Singh was a Sikh from the Asian subcontinent. Ricardo Montalban isn't exactly from India either, but there are people from New Jersey with a darker tan than Benedict Cumberbatch.

In his original background (which should be unaffected by the reboot timeline shift), Khan was a genetically enhanced human from the late 20th century. The original character served as a focus on the morality and perils of genetically engineering humans. That's a question we kind of face today. We genetically modify our foods to produce greater yields and to better survive droughts and cold snaps. The same science can be applied to humans. What if we genetically modified babies to be resistant to disease from birth on? Is that a good thing? What if we eliminated birth defects? Okay, now what if we also could genetically enhance them to give them superior intellect and strength? Now you get into a moral gray area. How do those new augmented humans view/treat the regular ones. If it goes well, you hopefully get Captain America. But if it goes badly, you get a villain like the Red Skull or any of the X-Men villains. Except, unlike the Avengers or X-Men movies, Khan is still supposed to be a human subject to the laws of humanity and physics. That's the loose concept. He's physically and intellectually superior, but only in the way that The Rock is physically superior to you or me. It'd be like giving the Rock steroids plus an IQ of 250. He's strong and wicked smart, but not an unstoppable one-man wrecking crew. You wouldn't want to face him in a brawl, but if he jumps off a 30-meter building, he's still going to shatter his legs and torso into oblivion. He's just genetically enhanced.....he's not invincible.

For comparison. Original Khan was defeated by a pipe to the back in a fistfight with Kirk. 1980's movie Khan was killed when part bridge of the ship he was on collapsed on him. Rebooted Khan is apparently a super-Jedi that can bring multiple dead beings back to life with a couple drops of his magic blood. One of these things is not like the others.

The Khan character was a defeated power-hungry dictator from late 20th century Earth who saw himself as superior to everyone else and who served as a literary model for a real discussion about the morality of genetically engineering humans. JJ Abrams re-cast him as a blackmailed CIA operative turned vengefully crazed invincible terrorist. Again, he could have just called him "John Harrison," and left it at that. But if you're going to call the character "Khan," when he clearly isn't.....just don't. There's no reason to tread on that ground.

7. It doesn't bring anything new?- This one I can kind of agree with-as there IS a Star Trek film out there called " Wrath of Khan"


I tried not to be a curmudgeon. I really did. I tried to be understanding and just accept that ST is a profitable venture and that re-telling some of the old Kirk/Spock stories could be both fun and profitable. I understand that's the goal here. Do some new stories with younger faces and better effects using the iconic characters from 50 years ago, and everybody wins.

The problem is people like me still remember things from the past. Star Trek has partially laid dormant under the crushing weight of 40 years and 500+ hours worth of episodic history. I understand that it's hard to write believable new story lines with that many canon constraints tying you down. Like trying to draw something artistic in coloring in a book that's already totally filled in.

If you want to tell new stories with these iconic characters, Abrams did it mostly right. Alternate timeline. Keeps the old stories people know and love intact, while clearing a path for new stories. Brilliant! Kudos. Reboot #1 had some seriously glaring issues, but it was tolerable enough and could be forgiven if it set the stage for better things to come.

Alright, Abrams. You went to all that trouble and bought your artistic freedom from all the historical canonical constraints. Now boldly go forth. And the first new story you tell with your hard-fought freedom is.....a dumbed-down reprise of "Wrath of Khan"--in some parts, stealing lines exactly word for word. Are you kidding me?!

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Strictly speaking, Khan was never established as being a Sikh from anywhere, other than in the imaginings of Marlene McGivers, who said, based on precisely nothing, that he was probably a Sikh from northern India. She painted him in a turban but Khan himself displayed none of the characteristics of a Sikh (beard, long hair) and the name itself is uncommon amongst Sikhs, used largely by Muslims and some Hindus, although Singh is thrown in and that is Sikh by and large. In short, he's established as nothing definitively.




I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.

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THat sounds like a hell of a cop out. He certainly wasn't supposed to be some British white boy either. The people who made this *beep* movie know they made a *beep* movie and thankfully why white boy Khan isnt in the other one...because no one wants him. They trashed the real Khan.

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1. John Harrison-Benedict Cumberbatch gave one of the best performances as a villain in recent memory as Khan IMO; but apparently "he's a 9/11 terrorist/he's white unlike the original? What's the problem?


Benedict Cumberbatch always gives a great performance and this is no different. The issue for me is not that he's a 9/11 terrorist or that he's white when Khan was Indian (character) / Mexican (actor) but rather that there was no point to the story in him being Khan. He could have remained John Harrison throughout the movie or even been a completely different genetically modified human without making a difference to the story. But if they really wanted to use Khan, then why make him completely different to what he was in the past. Either make him a new villain or use the same character and don't change him.

2."The New movies suck!"-I know many die-hard fans personally who dislike this one(especially) and the 2009 film.


I don't think they suck. As space-action-adventure movies I quite enjoyed them. However they don't really fit as Star Trek, which was always about the characters and their relationships. None of the characters have been developed in any way that really feels like they're the same people as the original series. Both of the movies could have been movies with original characters without much need for rewriting.


3. "JJ Abrams doesn't know (expletive) about Star Trek!"


This is true and JJ would agree with it. Not always a bad thing with a franchise, but in my opinion he missed the mark on this one. Looking at Star Wars, which he is a fan of, he completely nailed that on.

4. Into Darkness is a propaganda film


Yeah I didn't see that but I would imagine you could read propaganda into pretty much any movie if you went looking for it.

5. "Khan is too Superman like" "Using his blood to resurrect Kirk was dumb/predictable"


I found it fairly predictable myself, but I think this was more a case of the writers backing themselves into a corner by the decision to redo WOK and swap Spock's death for Kirk. The difference with WoK is that when it was written it was believed that Nimoy would not be returning to the series and they also didn't try to reverse the death before the credits, instead spending an entire movie on it.

6. "The scene with Alice Eve was stupid!" (As a straight male I don't get why this would be a problem)


I wouldn't call it stupid so much as unnecessary. As another straight male I'd admit to enjoying the view but it was also pretty patronising - basically saying "we need a hot chick undressing to keep the guys watching". It's also pretty sexist.

7. It doesn't bring anything new?- This one I can kind of agree with-as there IS a Star Trek film out there called " Wrath of Khan"


Agree and I think I'd have enjoyed this more if they'd been game to try something new.

8. It doesn't service Trekkies!


It shouldn't have to, but given Trekkies are a major part of the intended audience you'd think they'd at least try. Instead we got a whole heap of "homages" to one of the best ST movies, that completely missed the message of that movie.

9. Star Trek Into Darkness is stupid?


I suspect this one comes more from people who call anything they don't like stupid. I don't think there was a whole lot of depth to the movie (which there could so easily have been) but stupid? Not really.


My biggest issue with the movie was how unnecessary it was to try to do a WoK remake. In WoK the characters had been known each other (and the audience had known them) for something like 15 years so Spock's death had a major impact and Kirk's response was natural. In STID they've only known each other for a short time and not really been shown as friends for very much of that at all so Spock's reaction to Kirk's death comes across as over the top (especially since he's supposed to be logical and in control of his emotions).

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First I want to applaud you/thank you for answering each question in a calm, mature manner and not bashing me in the process.

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Anytime. I never quite got the whole concept of trying to win an argument by attacking the other guy.

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If only everyone in the world thought like this....

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I think it would behoove you to find another topic to discuss. You're spending inordinate amounts of time telling everyone how much you hate this movie. Your point has been made.

"Neckbeards hate and ruin everything."

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4. Into Darkness is a propaganda film


Yeah I didn't see that but I would imagine you could read propaganda into pretty much any movie if you went looking for it.


Without question. Especially in the times we live in

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Best Star Trek movie ever made. Period.

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The film was great

People chose to be angry and butt hurt because it's the fanboy "thing to do"

The plot holes aren't plotholes - Theure just alternative scenarios that could have been done

The acting was all good, as was the action.

people whine about it not being true to what Star Trek really is but the new films needed to make a splash and to gain new fans - you couldn't just do a voyage into deep space with all these new characters.

Now we've had two solid action films, it now feels like the right time to do an exploration film.

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ItΒ΄s not about being "angry and butt hurt fan boys" alot of people have been fans of Star Trek for a long time, and to them this is just not Star Trek, this is just big action blockbuster movie that happens to have the name Star Trek, and i do love big action blockbuster moves, but that is not what i want when i watch a Star Trek movie.

Personally i used to love Star Trek been a fan since i was a kid, i gave theise 2 new movies a chance and i agrea with the "angry and butt hurt fan boys" this is not the Star Trek i loved, this is the last Star Trek new Star Trek movie i will ever watch, but i am ok with it i can still watch the old ones, the new ones are just for a different audience, but hey there are still alot of stuff not Star Trek for me to enjoy.

So to all that prefer this new Trek all i can say enjoy it and have a good one :)

Rudeness is the weak manΒ΄s imitation of strength
Eric Hoffer

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From Jobo El:

The film was great

People chose to be angry and butt hurt because it's the fanboy "thing to do"


That's right. It's not because the characters had no development or the plot was extremely contrived and convenient, it's disliked because it's the "fanboy thing to do". ξ€›

The plot holes aren't plotholes - Theure just alternative scenarios that could have been done


That's right. Make a claim that plot holes aren't plot holes with a statement that has no relevance at all as the explanation. Case closed! 

The acting was all good, as was the action.




people whine about it not being true to what Star Trek really is but the new films needed to make a splash and to gain new fans - you couldn't just do a voyage into deep space with all these new characters.


That's right. This is the best that could be generated. A better plausible and compelling story is not a feasible alternative!

Now we've had two solid action films, it now feels like the right time to do an exploration film.


Two movies with the intelligence of a Transformers movie. Now is the perfect time for a Fast and Furious sequel! πŸ‘

"You don't like Beethoven."

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A post full of smileys by sandman-27

bravo

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From Jobo_El:

A post full of smileys by sandman-27

bravo


Would you rather me post a bunch of chepooka instead? That would've been redundant as you already did that. πŸ‘

"You don't like Beethoven."

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Would you rather me post a bunch of chepooka instead? That would've been redundant as you already did that


By chepooka, you mean things you disagree with.

I thought the acting was good - you didn't

I thought the stories were sufficient given the relaunch of a series - you didn't.

I thought the films needed to make a bigger splash than just having a deep rooted narrative. This is 2016 unfortunately so your first job is to reel in a large audience, make them familiar with characters and then start with the deep narratives in later chapters.

It seems you wanted it right off the bat (chortle)

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From El Jobo:

By chepooka, you mean things you disagree with.


I meant everything you said and your reasons for them.

I thought the acting was good - you didn't


The acting was whatever with the exception of Quinto, who was horrible.

I thought the stories were sufficient given the relaunch of a series - you didn't.


Two revenge stories where the antagonists' motives are ass pulls at best. πŸ‘

I thought the films needed to make a bigger splash than just having a deep rooted narrative. This is 2016 unfortunately so your first job is to reel in a large audience, make them familiar with characters and then start with the deep narratives in later chapters.


Well if that was idea, they clearly failed with the story of STID, didn't they? Instead of creating something new, they chose to rehash Trek II. πŸ‘Œ

It seems you wanted it right off the bat (chortle)


Apparently, you give a franchise a pass on the first try and then expect them to try harder on the second. And if you think Bad Robot "tried harder" the second time, then you are the perfect target demographic of these "writers". πŸ‘

"You don't like Beethoven."

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Apparently, you give a franchise a pass on the first try and then expect them to try harder on the second. And if you think Bad Robot "tried harder" the second time, then you are the perfect target demographic of these "writers".


No - you expected this. Not sure why you've used quotation marks for your own comment either.

You've also assumed that I give franchises a pass on the first go. I never asserted this. I actually said that the "first films" have a duty to introduce characters and that complex themes and stories can be explored in later installments.

Keep up.

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From El Jobo:

No - you expected this. Not sure why you've used quotation marks for your own comment either.


Based on this response, you're not too smart, are you? ξ€› All you said was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs4Gj7JsET4


You've also assumed that I give franchises a pass on the first go. I never asserted this.


You allowed Trek 09 to "setup" its premise and then allowed and accepted STID's rehash of Trek II. I don't think I assumed anything from your own words. As to you not "asserting" this, Ignorance is Strength! πŸ‘

I actually said that the "first films" have a duty to introduce characters and that complex themes and stories can be explored in later installments.


The "first films" have a duty to introduce characters??? Like Indiana Jones or Luke Skywalker??? Brilliant deduction Holmes! Did you figure that all by yourself, or did you just realize that a little bit of background explains a characters' motivations? πŸ‘Œ

Complex themes and stories can be explored in later installments??? Like STID rehashing Trek II??? Where was the "complex" theme and story? Again, by your own words, they failed.

Keep up.


Pray continue. 

"You don't like Beethoven."

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A teenage standard response from a seemingly teenage poster.

Nothing but halfwit quips and smileys.

And because Luke Skywalker does something - so should everyone else ? Brilliant !!

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From El Bozo:

A teenage standard response from a seemingly teenage poster.


I'd rather be a teenager than dim with your constant dunce responses.

Nothing but halfwit quips and smileys.


Apparently your attention span is limited as well as your mental capacity. πŸ‘

And because Luke Skywalker does something - so should everyone else ? Brilliant !!


This response proves you're not too smart. πŸ‘Œ

"You don't like Beethoven."

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I'm clearly dealing with a rookie here.

You're more interested in changing my username than engaging with the debate at hand.

I think at the point where someones username is being manipulated for childish effect then you've defeated yourself.

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From El Bozo:

I'm clearly dealing with a rookie here.


If I"m a rookie, then you're tadpole.πŸ‘Œ

You're more interested in changing my username than engaging with the debate at hand.


Am I? You're last post stated nothing about topic at hand. You just went on to attack me personally. Good job shooting yourself in the foot, tadpole. πŸ‘Š

I think at the point where someones username is being manipulated for childish effect then you've defeated yourself.


Ego boosted. You certainly needed to pat yourself on the back! 

"You don't like Beethoven."

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Just curious, but what did you think of Beyond? You obviously hate this movie but was the last one better to you?

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Just curious, but what did you think of Beyond? You obviously hate this movie but was the last one better to you?


Didn't see Beyond, so I couldn't tell you. Although this one looks better than the others, a friend already expressed disappointment about it. As bad as the nuTrek movies have been, Beyond would have to be pretty bad to surpass them.

"You don't like Beethoven."

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Oh ok, I'm surprised. You sound like a big Trekkie. I been reading all your stuff here so I thought you would be there opening weekend. I thought STID was *beep* too btw but I thought Beyond was better. Not by a whole lot but definitely better.

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From Pumba:

Oh ok, I'm surprised. You sound like a big Trekkie. I been reading all your stuff here so I thought you would be there opening weekend. I thought STID was *beep* too btw but I thought Beyond was better. Not by a whole lot but definitely better.


No. I do like Trek, but being on these boards, there is no way I am a big Trekkie. When it comes to nuTrek, I will not pay to watch them, but I'll eventually see them in passing out of curiosity. If you thought STID was dreck, what did you think of Trek 09?

And thank you for following me. As I told El Bozo, I aim to please. 

"You don't like Beethoven."

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If I"m a rookie, then you're tadpole.


What an impressive comeback - chortle

Am I? You're last post stated nothing about topic at hand. You just went on to attack me personally. Good job shooting yourself in the foot, tadpole.


The last post was questioning why someone on a message forum reducing debates to smiley transactions? I was stating a fact that it was a teenage standard response. That's not a personal attack, its an observation based on your previous comments

- chortle chortle

Ego boosted. You certainly needed to pat yourself on the back


No backpat required. You defeated yourself with childish postings.

chortle chortle chortle

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From El Bozo:

What an impressive comeback - chortle


I aim to please. But then again, it doesn't take much to please you. πŸ‘Œ

The last post was questioning why someone on a message forum reducing debates to smiley transactions? I was stating a fact that it was a teenage standard response. That's not a personal attack, its an observation based on your previous comments


You're right. It's my fault. I'm sorry your attention span and comprehension is so limited that you only noticed the emojis. πŸ‘Œ

No backpat required. You defeated yourself with childish postings.

chortle chortle chortle


Backpedal much? 

"You don't like Beethoven."

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I aim to please. But then again, it doesn't take much to please you.


I'm just happy when people can have a mature debate - it's lost on you though.

You're right. It's my fault. I'm sorry your attention span and comprehension is so limited that you only noticed the emojis.


Oh I seen the rest of your post but didn't really give it much credence. The smileys are usually an indication of ones inability to debate - guffaw

Backpedal much?


Confirming that you defeated yourself is now backpedaling? Whatever you say - chortle

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From El Bozo:

I'm just happy when people can have a mature debate - it's lost on you though.


It never was a debate to begin with let alone a mature one with your asinine claims.

Oh I seen the rest of your post but didn't really give it much credence. The smileys are usually an indication of ones inability to debate - guffaw


You just proved your lack of attention span with your own words! You're not too sharp, are you? 

Confirming that you defeated yourself is now backpedaling? Whatever you say - chortle


Another ego boost??? So soon? Insecure much?

"You don't like Beethoven."

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