I don't think I've ever weighed in on the 'did Damon rape' topic. I hate Damon, always have and always will but to be honest, I'd agree with you. i never once considered it rape when i was watching the show back when that episode/season aired. The idea of consent on a supernatural show isn't really *part* of this world. This world where vampires and humans alike get tortured but brush it off when they're rescued. This world where Caroline, the alleged 'victim', is still able to be friends with and hang in the same group as her perpetrator.
So unless Caroline herself came out and called it rape, I choose to go with how the writing operates on a supernatural show like this. It's a different world, and consent doesn't work the same way imo. Did Katherine rape Stefan? Does Bonnie have Stockholmes Syndrome w Enzo? Did Caroline sleep with Matt under false pretenses* (can't remember if she was a vampire at this point..)? The moral rules don't really work the same way for these characters. The only time consent seems to matter is when you're turned into a vampire, and that's something I understand that *matters* on the show.
& frankly, Damon has murdered, lied, tortured, used mind control etc, so I don't really understand the point of this debate? Consent obviously doesn't matter to him whatsoever, and none of his family/friends/lovers seem to give a sh-t, so why is the audience so obsessed? Damon is a bad guy.
Anyways, if he DID rape, does that make him worse? Bc where is the line drawn? Killing your soulmate's brother obviously isn't it. And if he didn't rape, does that make him better? Bc I certainly don't think so.
A rose is just a rose.
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mymammakat
8 years ago
You say you never considered it rape when you viewed it. Neither did I. I don't believe anyone did. I believe that when some viewers became angry with Damons character some time after the episodes in question, they projected the non existent rape of Caroline to justify anger at Damons character and unfortunately it grew and was fed until It became a major topic on TVD's thread.
I found this unfortunate and disturbing because people who have been victims of real abuse of any kind should not be lulled into a conversation about something this sensitive based upon some untrue interpretation of a teen TV show.
Admittedly there may be someone on that thread able to rationally and intelligently discuss rape with an anonymous contributor, I would not want anyone I cared about to be a guninea pig in that forum or any other, especially some unsuspecting teens.
All of the characters on the show have done horrible things an will continue to do so, but no one is raped, that would put this show in a completely different level, or rating, such as for mature audiences only where such subjects belong.
We're all on our way out, act accordingly.
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HP_HG_Fan
8 years ago
I found this unfortunate and disturbing because people who have been victims of real abuse of any kind should not be lulled into a conversation about something this sensitive based upon some untrue interpretation of a teen TV show.
I find denial what happened to Caroline (who would be a real victim of abuse if this was real) to be unfortunate and disturbing because it encourages the narrative that rape only happens when an unattractive stranger violently forces himself on a woman in a dark alleyway. Ever thought of how this relates to people who were raped whilst under the influence of a drug, asleep or so heavily drunk that they completely lost their ability to consent? How is compulsion any different?
Rape did not come to mind for me because I was a naive teenager and Damon fangirl at the time. I abandoned the show after a few seasons, only re-watched Season 1 this year and was instantly disturbed by the Damon and Caroline scenes. If I had known back then what I know now, I would have been equally disturbed.
S.P.E.R.M member 270
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mymammakat
8 years ago
I find the fabrication of what actually happened on the show to be disturbing.
We're all on our way out, act accordingly.
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christinaparker-60256
8 years ago
Rape did not come to mind for me because I was a naive teenager and Damon fangirl at the time.
Pretty much this. I did not see it as rape until I was older and had a better understanding of what rape is. And this is why it is so important that we don't sweep this under the rug, because young people need to understand what consent is. These conversations are important to have and I think it is disgusting that many on here are critical of that.
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TaylorBruh25
8 years ago
I always thought it was rape but had no problem with it because I always thought Damon was supposed to stay good/bad, like so to say how Malcolm Merlyn is on Arrow, they let him live and sometimes they team up, that's all he gets from that core group because of what he's done. Even though Arrow sucks, I respect that development. Damon getting the girl is one thing, but the fact that it only took said girl to get over him muredering her brother through the silent treatment, or that she never acknowledged what he's done to Caroline. It's the dumbing down of everything to prop said something up. If he'd had stop his villainous actions cold in S1, I might've been fine with him being changed into who the show wants him to be.
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christinaparker-60256
8 years ago
I agree. I absolutely could have forgiven this too, I forgave Chuck Bass for what he did to Jenny in like the first episode or so of Gossip Girl because his characterization after that made sense (up to a point, some of the later developments around Jenny were not great).
Shows make mistakes when they are getting their footing. We as viewers can suspend our disbelief and begin to like characters who do bad things if it is handled the right way, and this really just wasn't. To add insult to injury, the show runner has never really addressed it, and I would have been satisfied if they simply said "we didn't intend for it to come off that way when we wrote the scenes, but it did."
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TaylorBruh25
8 years ago
Absolutely, it was just handled wrong either way, if either Kevin meant for him to stay bad and the mistake was him turning good, or the mistake was thaat SL and Caroline isn't supposed to be raped.
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ThinkBfourUSpeak
8 years ago
On this point I would like to ask did Damon ever apologized to Caroline for what he did to her. I remember her remembering everything when she turned vampire. Did she forgive him? How can she stand to be in the same room with him even after so many years unless he is genuinely guilty about what he did... BTW does Stefan know what Damon did to her?
------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------
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mymammakat
8 years ago
If you remember her remembering everything he did to her than you remember that she didn't forgive him for not liking her and using her to get to Stefan and Elena. You remember that she didn't forgive him for hurting her feelings and feeding from her. You remember her not forgiving him for punishing her for being an envious and calculating "friend".
I'm not saying Damon was justified in how he took his anger out on Caroline, only that there was a reason, he knew she was shallow and Insecure. He despised her for that, but he didn't rape her. And no, he never apologized for feeding on her.
Yes, Stefan knows he didn't rape her. So does every other character on the show.
We're all on our way out, act accordingly.
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ThinkBfourUSpeak
8 years ago
He despised her for that, but he didn't rape her. And no, he never apologized for feeding on her.
Yes, Stefan knows he didn't rape her. So does every other character on the show.
I havent seen the previous two season but the one in which Damon compelled her, I saw that and I disagree with you about rape defense. As for bold part, did they show that as cannon?
------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------
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mymammakat
8 years ago
It's pretty obvious that Stefan, the self righteous ripper, self appointed authority on "moral" expertise would have discussed rape with Damon and Caroline and Elena immediately. The whole idea of rape is so far away from the premise and creative inspiration for this show that it's ridiculous.
Therefore, no, not shown as canon.😑
We're all on our way out, act accordingly.
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ThinkBfourUSpeak
8 years ago
Therefore, no, not shown as canon.
Okay so not cannon then. Thanks.
------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------
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ThinkBfourUSpeak
8 years ago
The whole idea of rape is so far away from the premise and creative inspiration for this show that it's ridiculous.
LOL if you think that the vampires who are as old as Damon or even more are not capable of doing that then you are in denial my friend.
------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------
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mymammakat
8 years ago
LOL If you think a rape happens in season one and no one EVER discusses it in any dialogue anywhere for the next 7 seasons you are in denial my friend.
Vampires are capable of many things in fiction, this show is not the mature , graphic, forum for that kind of violence.
That's what makes it a teenfi CW show. Did you see the first season?
We're all on our way out, act accordingly.
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TaylorBruh25
8 years ago
They've done rape on mutliple CW teen dramas.
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ThinkBfourUSpeak
8 years ago
And they dont have to necessarily show it to say rape happened. IMO not shown things but implied are more horrific.
------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------
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ThinkBfourUSpeak
8 years ago
Did you see the first season?
yes I saw it and that is why I disagree with you about the rape...
------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------
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TaylorBruh25
8 years ago
She never forgave him and he never apologized, and Stefan knows, that's part of the problem, everything's dumbed down.
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mymammakat
8 years ago
Right, because morally superior Stefan would never confront Damon with raping Caroline? C'mon, are you serious?
We're all on our way out, act accordingly.
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TaylorBruh25
8 years ago
THAT is them dumbing down the rest of the group, you think Elena would touch him or Bonnie speak to him after that? No. This is why the show suffers.
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mymammakat
8 years ago
No, I don't think anyone would talk to him after that, his character wouldn't be able to live and be a part of the journey they have all taken together if he raped Caroline or anyone else.
We're all on our way out, act accordingly.
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TaylorBruh25
8 years ago
Exactly, he'd be the Malcolm Merlyn of this show, which he would be 10x entertaining as.
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HP_HG_Fan
8 years ago
Don't play naive. Plec and Dries worship Damon and do their best to portray him as the hot, tortured, romantic hero of the series, why would they draw attention to the fact that he is a rapist? THAT is why they dumbed things down; Plec was even asked by fans whether or not he slept with Caroline after the compulsion, after pointing out to her that in doing so, he would have raped her. Plec didn't answer them, which speaks volumes, as she (unlike certain Damon and DE fans) knows that she can't possibly deny that. And even if he didn't sleep with Caroline after the compulsion (which was heavily implied), he surely slept with Andie.
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ThinkBfourUSpeak
8 years ago
that's part of the problem, everything's dumbed down.
ONly if they discuss things out and try to solve it then accepting it wouldnt be a problem.
------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------
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HP_HG_Fan
8 years ago
True, it's worrying how a sizeable number of people still don't understand consent fully. This is why it should be taught at schools along with sex ed classes.
S.P.E.R.M member 270
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