Wedding makes no sense.


Didn't wanna write it in topic's name, but SERIOUSLY? Stefan marrying Caroline? Really? They've ZERO chemistry, he will always love Elena and that's it. It's obvious that retarded writers want Damon and Elena to be the endgame, but that's just kills the premise of whole show.

Anyway, *beep* it, show lost itself long ago, now it's just poop anyway with *beep* sirens, hell and *beep*

P.S.

If you wanted Stefan to 'forget' Elena, you should've paired him up with Valeries, because they actually made some sense.

And just to make it clear. I'm not 'shipper' of anything, I'm not teenager either. It's just that stuff like this makes me regret I ever started watching this, because it was good early on.

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It's obvious that retarded writers want Damon and Elena to be the endgame, but that's just kills the premise of whole show.


How is Delena being endgame killing the premise? "A teenage girl is torn between two vampire brothers" I'm curious to know what you thought it was

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^^ this..

------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------

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Because there can be NO endgame, at least no endgame with happy ending. And it's not even two brothers anymore, we're led to believe Stefan doesn't love Elena anymore, which is quite *beep*

Their love was 'epic' for few seasons and now he's ok with everything, marrying her friend? Ye, right.

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agree omf

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Lol butthurt shipper much?
He will "always" love Elena? He hasn't been in love with her since season 5 at the very latest. Also, it wasn't just the writers who wanted Damon with Elena. In fact, the writers originally wanted her and Stefan to last, but the majority of the audience thought Damon/Elena had more chemistry, the very issue that you have with steroline.

Also, Stefan hasn't forgotten Elena. They fell out of love, which is what happens with NEARLY EVERY first love ever. Or are you saying that people never ever move on? If anything, the show handled his moving on fairly well considering it did take him time to move on and when he did, he found something different with Caroline. I'm not a huge fan of steroline, but your argument pretty much sucks and reeks of bias that isn't substantiated by anything in the show.

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majority of the audience thought Damon/Elena had more chemistry, the very issue that you have with steroline.


^^this.

------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------

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A majority of the audience thought Damon/Elena had more chemistry, the very issue that you have with steroline.


Check out the ratings. A majority of the audience is also gone once the show revolved around Damon and that poorly concocted pairing. The majority of the audience left is a bunch of Delena shippers and hopeful Bamon shippers willing to over look the poor quality of this show because of their ships.

And before it starts up, no, I don't ship stelena. I can't stand Elena or Damon. And Stefan at present has been turned into a waste of air.

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How about research some about ratings before you comment. 90 percent of shows go down year to year. TVDs downward trajectory matches/is slightly lower than MOST shows year to year. Furthermore, you have NO evidence that any drop corresponds to anger with Delena. Seasons 4 and 5 are hailed as pretty bad, but they had MANY plot issues with them that cause that seperate from what you think of delena. Delena is just what the stelena shippers say was at fault because they are mad that they didnt get their way, not because they have any evidence or statistical proof. As I said, if stelena was more popular, the writers would have GLADLY stayed with them. The writers hailed them as soulmates for multiple years, but they werent nearly as popular as Damon/Elena were, especially in the early years.

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I agree. But there is no beating the writers' obsession with Delena and Steroline. It's one of the reasons why I feel no sadness about TVD ending.

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You know what's funny? It's that for all I get lectured here about TVD being about vampires this show is so freaking obsessed with giving vamps such human goals and concerns like babies, marriage, careers, and graduating college like these characters aren't immortal. Half the time you can tell the writers have forgotten that they are writing about vampires.
I feel like vampirism here is a beard. TVD is better likened to a show about amoral/immoral people with occasionally severe dietary restrictions.

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Lol. You're absolutely right. The writers really try to have their cake and eat it too. We can't get on these characters for the bad things they do because "it's a vampire show", but here our VAMPIRE characters are, obsessing about weddings and kids. The wedding is pretty odd to me. Marriage is hard enough for normal humans, how in the world can you guarantee that you're going to still be madly in love with someone hundreds of years from now? I really miss season 1. :(

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Both SC and DE fans have been on the writers about the weddings for their ships and their ships getting married. At this point it looks like the double wedding thing with DE and SC could happen for JP to give them what they want, especially a DE endgame. They put on DE/SC what the fans want, especially because JP admitted that she did the DE rainkiss because of a trend.

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Because the Bamon scenes in S6/7 were so organic and not fanservice at all?

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.


Haha..
------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------

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TY, Mark Twain is a genius 😃😃

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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If you think that "fanservice" means having Damon a relationship and getting close to someone other than Elena? Since I know that some DE fans think that Elena is the only woman that Damon is allowed to care for or think about and if he does for any other then it's "fanservice" or "OOC' for Damon.

Yet, no matter what you think about the Bamon friendship, JP still makes sure that she caters to the DE fandom all of the time. Talk to JP who said that she did the DE rainkiss to "reward the fans". True fanservice for Bamon would be actually putting them together romantically.

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The whole DE cannot be fan service unless she herself doesn't want to do that. It is her show, she will not cater for fans blindly. A few scenes maybe like that rain kiss scene.

------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------

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She fanservices DE fans because she wants to, no doubt. The show has been catering to the DE fandom since Season 5.

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How is it catering? They were always supposed to be endgame in the show so how is developing them catering? But for me DE has gone down the drain since season 5 after having developed it so nicely from season 1-4.

I wish she would just drop it but she is obsessed with it.

When people talk about Stelena and say that is how it was in books they have to remember that JP based his story on those books not intended to make it exactly same. At least this is my understanding.

------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------

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JP has been catering to the DE fandom,because DE is what she has been wanting. Even Kevin Williamson came out and said that JP tried to push for a Delena kiss in the earlier seasons, but he refused to do it because at that point he didn't believe that Elena would kiss Damon. JP has wanted to do DE even if it meant interfering with what was suppose to be SE's story in the earlier seasons.

She is telling DE fans about how Nina will return, even tho Nina herself has yet to confirm that she will return. Her interviews are all about how DE will be endgame and she is more concerned about keeping them invested. Always talking about DE trends.

And does what the DE fandom wants from her. But, other things such as better treatment for Bonnie, she ignores and refuses to do and has an excuse for having Bonnie in pain and magicless once again. So she favors the DE fandom over others.

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JP has wanted to do DE even if it meant interfering with what was suppose to be SE's story in the earlier seasons.


Well that would have fitted with the synopsis of the show- Elena is unable to decide which brother to go to. It would have made sense for her to go behind Stefan and Damon. Morally wrong but would have fit the show synopsis.

what was suppose to be SE's story in the earlier seasons.


I dont think it was ever meant to be SE story. IF it were then she wouldnt have had affair with Stefan first since that just goes against the synopsis of the show. Or are you suggesting that she was supposed to start with Stefan, go to Damon and then back to Stefan?


But, other things such as better treatment for Bonnie,


I have not seen after season 5 but from what I hear from right/ left, it seems that Bonnie was dealt a bad hand. She was the sacrificing figure for the whole gang. Maybe that was her character. I seem to recall she was like that in the earlier seasons too. If Kat felt that her character was not being justified she should have asked her to write her off. Why stay on the show which is giving you bad stories continuously? But she didnt. That has to count for something.

So she favors the DE fandom over others.


You cannot blame the fandom for her not justifying Bonnie's character. And honestly justification is subjective too. In her eyes or the actress she might be but in fans she might not be.

Her interviews are all about how DE will be endgame and she is more concerned about keeping them invested. Always talking about DE trends.


Why shouldnt she? It is her show. They are endgame that she has been developing from the start and is excited about the end. Now in the last season she does not want to lose the fans who have lost hope since Nina's coming back has not yet been confirmed. Also from my understanding some fans lost interest in the ship ever since NINA left the show. You have to remember that NINA leaving had a big impact on her vision of the endgame too so she is desperate to keep the fans, to keep them excited about her envisioned ending. I dont think she was expecting a whole season without NINA. I just wish she had dropped Delena when NINA left.








------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------

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KW didn't think so at the time, it was still suppose to be Elena in love with Stefan. So we just simply disagree on this.

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sure we can disagree. Just one last thing. If Kw wanted to go with Se then they should have changed the synopsis of the show.

------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------

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KW leaving the show and the writing being put in JP/CD's hands changed the show from being about the triangle, to them eventually down playing SE and what SE was about to up play DE and now the Triangle isn't there anymore.

Even writing the SE necklace to be about DE. Rewriting for Damon to have met Elena first to make DE more epic and more "meant to be" over Stelena, even though at first it was Stefan to have met Elena first. At one point the writers talked up SE like it was endgame, calling Damon the third point.

But, since JP and CD took over it became all about DE.

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Listen if JP took over the show and KW left then he gave everything to JP to do what she wants to do with the show. If he wanted to keep the show as he wanted then he should have stayed but he didn't. After becoming JP show, she could do with it whatever she wanted to do. I know you and others were/ are disappointed and believe me when I say I understand when someone does not like DE.


I dont know how KW was planning to play that synopsis if he was going to keep SE endgame. Maybe he was going to play musical chair afterwards with the different end result.


KW leaving the show and the writing being put in JP/CD's hands changed the show from being about the triangle, to them eventually down playing SE and what SE was about to up play DE and now the Triangle isn't there anymore.




I agree with this. If we go strictly by the synopsis, DE shouldnt have been a steady couple till the last season but since there were so many seasons they couldnt really drag that story "a girl confused about two brothers."


I think what they have to Stefan- getting himself away from Elena and having another healthy relationship on the show was much better instead of letting him continue to be on the leash for Elena. I seem to recall it was Paul's call to give himself something serious with Caroline for him to stay.

BTW do you have any idea why KW left?



------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------

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He left to create/write The Following.

Also, and this is more to awesomebamon. I don't think JP is as anti Stelena as you think she is. She was still in charge in season 3, which imo was one of the best Stelena-based seasons, with Elena actually picking Stefan.

It's Caroline Dries I blame more for both the decline of TVD and SE because she took control around season 5 and wrote a few of rhe s4 episodes that pretty much ruined the show in my eyes.

A rose is just a rose.

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He left to create/write The Following.



thanks. So why is he coming back? Has that show crashed and burned?

------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------

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Yup, the show got cancelled a year or so ago and I think he dabbled in other projects after that.

He's coming back because it's the last season, and I guess since he helped create the show, he wanted to help conclude it.

A rose is just a rose.

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He's coming back because it's the last season, and I guess since he helped create the show, he wanted to help conclude it.



I dont even know what to say about this. The show was not good enough for him a few years back so he left it but now after JP bringing it to here, whether people like what she did or not she did a lot of hard work, he wants to take credit for taking it home?


------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------

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The necklace thing was heavily in the story while KW was still writing for the show. He even co wrote 3x01 with JP which as we now was a pivotal scene for the DE relationship. KW was also involved in breaking the story arc for S3 including turning Elena into a vampire. He was also aware of the upcoming SB and cure SL for S4...since they were planning it all in S3.

Of course the writers were lauding up Stelena at that time, they were THE central relationship of the show and that is what they were selling and promoting on the surface. What did you expect them to say? Here is our EPIC Stelena, but don't love them too much because Elena will choose Damon next season.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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You don't think KW wanted DE?

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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JP has been catering to the DE fandom,because DE is what she has been wanting.


JP has stated on more than one occasion that she is a Stelena fangirl at heart.

Even Kevin Williamson came out and said that JP tried to push for a Delena kiss in the earlier seasons, but he refused to do it because at that point he didn't believe that Elena would kiss Damon. JP has wanted to do DE even if it meant interfering with what was suppose to be SE's story in the earlier seasons.


That quote from KW is part of a larger discussion about the trajectory of DE. Actually, I agree with KW, a DE kiss that soon would have been all wrong and would have ruined the long term vision he had for Damon's characterisation and the DE relationship. KW loves Damon, he wanted him to earn every moment he got with Elena because he cared about building the story.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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Exactly right. Many "ships" have been given their moment of fanservice, Klaroline sex, Steferine sex and the Bamon 3 second speech immediately spring to mind.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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If you think that "fanservice" means having Damon a relationship and getting close to someone other than Elena


You mean like Alaric, Liz, Rose, Carol to name a few ??

JP still makes sure that she caters to the DE fandom all of the time. Talk to JP who said that she did the DE rainkiss to "reward the fans".


There is a huge difference between fanservice and telling a story.
The rain kiss was a kind a fanservice, but it did not change anything about DE, affect the storyline or retcon previously established canon or relationships.

True fanservice for Bamon would be actually putting them together romantically.


This is why you are truly angry at JP. She won't give you what you want.
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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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I'm angry with JP for more reasons than just Bamon. One of the reasons that DE fans like and support JP so much is for the fact that she is giving them Delena. You think that DE fans would support her as much if she was still going for SE or if she made SE endgame? Or if Elena's endgame ended up with someone outside of Damon? I'm sure that the many DE Stans calling JP their "queen" because she gives them DE, wouldn't be as supportive if Elena ended up the series without Damon.

I dislike JP more so for her mistreatment of Bonnie constantly, as well as I don't think that she treats POC/black characters overall in a good way.

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Bamon is your primary sore point though. You are blaming the fandom for what JP writes like she was held at gun point when she wrote the scripts.
For the record, I don't think the sun shines out of JP's backside, I have been very critical of some of her writing at times (especially her treatment of POC and Bonnie Bennett) but overall this show is one of my favorite of all times so she is doing something right in my book.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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It's not my main reason. I can actually accept the fact that Bamon will most likely not be romantic. However I can't accept the fact that JP has linked Bonnie's death to Elena returning and a Delena endgame and Bonnie has to die for a white character to return and a white ship to be reunited. I find it very wrong that a black characters death is the key to a white characters happiness, considering the history of this country. And with black lives matter going on currently.

JP just has enabled Delena fans and Bonnie haters in that fandom to cheer for the death of Bonnie for the sake of their ship and want the death of Bonnie. Which is a problem since some DE Stans have attacked Bonnie based off of the color of her skin and have called her racial slurs and compared her to a slave. JP doesn't help matters with the box that she writes Bonnie in and now because of that Bonnie is seen as someone who can't have her own feelings and wants, if some think that it will impact or "betray" Elena. JP can spin Bonnie having a long and happy life and then her dying for Elena and it would still be wrong for the history of Bonnie being a plot device to serve Elena whenever she was in trouble or in danger and her losing things and suffering for Elena's life. Writing that Elena's life is worth more even in Bonnie's eyes.

Also with the other POC/black characters. Making Beau mute and a servant to his white family and then killing him off. Beau not getting nearly as much attention as the white heretics did. Bringing Lucy and Sarah back just to quickly kill them off. Bringing on POC extras, just to have them killed off. Can put a lot of effort into keeping around Alaric/Matt/Enzo, but doesn't try to build a place for another POC character outside of Bonnie.

Can always acknowledge Delena trends, "reward" Delena fans with a rainkiss. But, when she is sent articles and metas on why her writing for Bonnie is harmful and racist to black people or why it bothers POC to watch Bonnie being treated in such a way, she either glosses over it, ignores it, or gets defensive and acts like we are the bad guys for calling it out and trying to make her understand.

Can go out to reward Delena fans, but then the writers admit that they know that Bonnie fans are tired of seeing her in pain and on the short end of the stick, yet choose to end Season 7 and began Season 8 with Bonnie in pain and suffering again anyway, because Bonnie is "strong."

Cares more about keeping people invested in her through shipping and ship baiting than she does in trying to write for POC/black characters and treating them fairly. But, acts like she is woke on black lives matter issues, but doesn't treat Bonnie like her life matters. Keeping Bonnie held back for Delena matters more than trying to show that Bonnie as a black character should get equal treatment to her white characters. Holding Bonnie down with the link for the sake of keeping Delena fans invested mattered more to JP, then allowing Bonnie not to have the burden of Elena's coma held over her head.

She needed a way to keep DE fans invested while Nina was gone and decided to use Bonnie, the character who has suffered and served for ELena's life and happiness enough before to do it.

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It's not my main reason. I can actually accept the fact that Bamon will most likely not be romantic. However I can't accept the fact that JP has linked Bonnie's death to Elena returning and a Delena endgame and Bonnie has to die for a white character to return and a white ship to be reunited. I find it very wrong that a black characters death is the key to a white characters happiness, considering the history of this country. And with black lives matter going on currently.


Firstly, it hasn't been written that Bonnie HAS to die in order for Elena to return. The narrative is that Bonnie will live out her natural life before Elena gets to live hers. Very different interpretations but only mine is supported by the white girl explicitly spelling it out. "We both get what we want, we just can't have it at the same time" (paraphrasing). These girls love each other so much, and that was made very clear to me.

Secondly, if Elena wakes up early it will be because a loophole to break the spell will be found meaning both girls get to survive. Bonnie is not going to die.

P just has enabled Delena fans and Bonnie haters in that fandom to cheer for the death of Bonnie for the sake of their ship and want the death of Bonnie. Which is a problem since some DE Stans have attacked Bonnie based off of the color of her skin and have called her racial slurs and compared her to a slave.


This sounds to me like Twitter wars in which I have seen equally horrible things said by both fandoms. The Elena haters are equally disgusting with their insults and JP has received abuse and hate from the Bonnie/Bamon fandom that is just as unacceptable as anything the DE fans have said. There is no enabling, JP is telling the story she wants to tell/

JP can spin Bonnie having a long and happy life and then her dying for Elena and it would still be wrong for the history of Bonnie being a plot device to serve Elena whenever she was in trouble or in danger and her losing things and suffering for Elena's life. Writing that Elena's life is worth more even in Bonnie's eyes.


If Bonnie lived a long and happy life then died because it was her natural time to die, then she wouldn't be dying for Elena. It would mean Elena would wake sure, then it would be her time to live out the rest of her life...off screen, because we sure as hell ain't going to see it are we?
The writing is showing the opposite of what you are saying. The writing is SAYING that Bonnies' life is equal to Elenas' in the eyes of her friends and loved ones. Initially Damon was conflicted and resentful but that has changed, but literally no one else has even suggested risking Bonnies' life to resurrect Elena. Tying Bonnie to Elena ensured that Bonnie will live given the fact that Nina left the show and is unlikely to return until the very very end (If that). The writers did that knowing Nina was leaving with only a verbal promise that she would return at the end. Back then, JP and the CW were talking about maybe going for a good few more seasons, maybe as many as 10.

Also with the other POC/black characters. Making Beau mute and a servant to his white family and then killing him off. Beau not getting nearly as much attention as the white heretics did. Bringing Lucy and Sarah back just to quickly kill them off. Bringing on POC extras, just to have them killed off. Can put a lot of effort into keeping around Alaric/Matt/Enzo, but doesn't try to build a place for another POC character outside of Bonnie.


I agree with all this. The writing for POC has not been stellar and at times tone deaf.

Can always acknowledge Delena trends, "reward" Delena fans with a rainkiss.


The rainkiss "reward" as you call it was for the fans that have been dying to see it since S1 "let the right one in". 6 years of campaigning and pleading etc, etc, etc not to mention the amount of awards, recognition and publicity this fandom has generated throughout the entire series run. (Personally I wish they had trended "DE shower sex" but I digress) It was a nod to the support of the fans for all the support given to her show. Other parts of the fandom have also been given their fair share of "rewards" for their investment of the show, but not everyone can get everything they want. JP stated somewhere that the Bamon friendship was honored in service of the book fans that wanted to see that friendship (emphasis on friendship) evolve onscreen.
Ultimately the story they want to tell we be told. No amount of meta and pleading will ultimately change the series arcs or the stories they want to tell, even if little tidbits are given along the way. Klaroline fans are still waiting for their endgame too.

But, when she is sent articles and metas on why her writing for Bonnie is harmful and racist to black people or why it bothers POC to watch Bonnie being treated in such a way, she either glosses over it, ignores it, or gets defensive and acts like we are the bad guys for calling it out and trying to make her understand.


Perhaps she see's it as shipper based bias. Bonnie has been given love stories with white and black characters but the shippers continue to bombard her with racist accusations. JP has blocked many DE fans that abuse and harrass her everytime the story goes in a different way to how they envisaged, I would wager she has fans from all TVD fandoms blocked.

the writers admit that they know that Bonnie fans are tired of seeing her in pain and on the short end of the stick, yet choose to end Season 7 and began Season 8 with Bonnie in pain and suffering again anyway, because Bonnie is "strong."




Now you are criticizing them because they want to portray her as being strong, and a fighter? I don't get it. Last season she was the perpetual damsel in distress needing to be saved. When she is a witch saving everyone with her powers that is wrong too.

Keeping Bonnie held back for Delena matters more than trying to show that Bonnie as a black character should get equal treatment to her white characters. Holding Bonnie down with the link for the sake of keeping Delena fans invested mattered more to JP, then allowing Bonnie not to have the burden of Elena's coma held over her head.


Oh c'mon. Elena has carried the burden of knowing that her status of being the doppelganger has endangerd and caused the death of many people in her life. Your fixated on delena mattering more when the writers are going out of their way to show that the opposite is true. Everyone on the show has been dedicated to keeping Bonnie alive, including Damon.
The delena fans are still invested because of the narrative keeping her in it, and i'm not denying that a few rabid fans are just waiting for tragedy to befall Bonnie, but true fans of the whole show just want a happy ending for both girls.
I enjoy DE, but most DE fans I converse with would not want it at the expense of BB because it would taint it forever. I would rather DE just faded away and Damon and Elena got a different but satisfactory endgame rather than that happen (Excluding Bonnie dying 60-80 yrs from now happy and fulfilled).
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SHowing Bonnie living a long and happy life is still sugarcoating the fact that JP tied Elena's happy ending to the death of Bonnie. Bonnie still has to die in order for Elena to wake up and get her fairy tale ending no matter how you spin it. Should Bonnie fans just be happy with the series ending with Bonnie dead and everyone else alive, with their happy endings?

For black women/POC that have had to watch Bonnie and who have wanted the writers to cut her some slack, that "strong" trope is very offensive and implies to some that black women can go through endless pain and always come out okay for being "fighters". It's the strong black woman can take any kind of pain and take more pain than a white woman can. Something that maybe not everyone can understand, unless you are viewing the writing for Bonnie from the point of a black women/POC viewer.

At some point showing Bonnie going through constant pain or being selfless and being willing to risk herself for others and suffering for it, is no longer a compliment and gets to the point of over doing it and can be damaging for the writers to go back to over and over again, keeping the character in box and not allowing that character to grow.

To Bonnie fans her love stories, do not get equal treatment to Caroline/Elena. The black character that JP paired Bonnie with was her step brother in Jamie. Jeremy cheated on her and neither Elena nor Caroline have ever had men that have cheated on them. Caroline and Elena's "epic loves" get told over Seasons and many episodes. Not putting it all together with Enzo and Bonnie, in one flashback episode and expecting everyone to buy him as her epic love. Damon cheating on Elena would be out of the question for some Delena fans. Would it even cross JP's mind to have Damon or Stefan cheat on Elena? But, she was okay with doing it to Bonnie.

Some think that Bonnie fans are suppose to be happy with any story or love interest, no matter how poorly written.

Elena/Caroline get to go to balls and dances and get dressed up. But, somehow Bonnie is always missing and something comes up to prevent her from going to balls. She didn't get to go to the Mikealson ball and JP just says "Not deliberate" when it's brought up for why Bonnie is always missing.

It's not just with ships, because as much as this accusation is constantly thrown at Bonnie fans to discredit the issues of Bonnie's race being a factor in her treatment, there have been plenty of non-shipping reasons for why Bonnie fans have a problem with her treatment.

The whole shipping thing and saying that fans only have a problem with Bamon not happening and therefore trying to discredit our points. Attacking Bonnie fans instead of addressing JP. And trying to derail and discredit us by accusing us of playing the "race card".

Which is very offensive and demeaning, since that is what happens with black lives matter or any race issues when some are uncomfortable with the race discussion and don't want to admit to racism being a problem in the situation, so they rather try to derail and distract from the discussion and make the people who want to discuss race the bad guys.

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Agreed. I can't imagine BTVS become so marriage and baby obsessed. I mean, Caroline was impregnated with twins that weren't even hers and we're just supposed to act like that's normal. True Blood is probably the opposite of TVD in every way, where the vamps don't forget they're vampires and don't act like humans who are sometimes vampires when their switches are off.

Honestly, you'd forget that Caroline was even a vampire on this show.

A rose is just a rose.

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he will always love Elena and that's it.


Of course he loves her but he loves Caroline in romantic sense and wants to spend his life with her. A person can have many love interest in his life at different stages of his/her life. Not to mention there are multiple types of love a person can have.

------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------

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It's actually so forced that it's cringy whenever they're on screen.

I already said I ain't some teenager emo girl that cares about 'shipping'. I just don't like how this show evolved.

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I see what you mean! Seems Caroline wanted Stephan a lot longer than he wanted her! They never made sense and it seemed forced!

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Stefan dodged a bullet with Elena and her wandering eye, he deserves better than someone who wants to bang his own brother.
He and Katherine on the other hand were the perfect couple, but in the worst decision in TV history she had to die and Elena got to live.
Caroline is gorgeous and capable of taking care of him.





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"Art is magic delivered from the lie of being truth"

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Stefan dodged a bullet with Elena and her wandering eye, he deserves better than someone who wants to bang his own brother.


lol.. a girl who cannot decide between brothers ... yeah Stefan deserves better.

Caroline is gorgeous and capable of taking care of him.
but in the worst decision in TV history she had to die and Elena got to live.


^^ this.


------Choose your relationships wisely. It's better to be alone than to be in bad company------

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I mean... you do realize that Katherine didn't just want to bang Damon while she was with Stefan, she actually did it? The entire time?

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Katherine defies common classification. She's above all mere human boundaries. Just as Elena's feelings for Stefan changed when she became immortal, so did Katherine's for Damon, especially when she became human.





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"Art is magic delivered from the lie of being truth"

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No, that's just a double standard. You're trashing Elena for something that Katherine did, on top of what Katherine did worse. Katherine was playing both brothers intentionally, while Elena never wanted to hurt anyone. It always amazes me that a lot of the fandom has more sympathy for honest cruelty than unintentionally falling in love.

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I'm not trashing Elena, I liked her okay; I just don't like how she handled dumping Stefan in S4. It is easily explained with the sire bond but then all of sudden that bond was limited to executing order with turns Elena into a selfish person.
Elena just loved Damon more, you might remember I did have a hard time to accept that and still don't get it.
And Katherine in her dire situation wanted to have some fun, in that she was more vampire than all the others except maybe Isobel (and the Queen of Luisiana). Katerina was never the conventional type. But that changed and not only Elena is allowed to change her mind.

From S5 on, Stefan has been retconned to be a different person, S1 Stefan would have made a much more romantic gesture.


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"Art is magic delivered from the lie of being truth"

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Okay but it was ALWAYS Stefan for her. She chose Stefan every. single. time. She also kept her word when she said "I always loved Stefan, it'll always be stefan. I want Stefan. He's the love of my life."

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Stefan dodged a bullet with Elena and her wandering eye, he deserves better than someone who wants to bang his own brother.

Yeah, lucky girl that Caroline. She gets to marry Stefan "You really gonna make me say it?" Salvatore  Elena's the one that dodged a bullet.

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👍

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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Stefan dodged a bullet with Elena and her wandering eye, he deserves better than someone who wants to bang his own brother.
He and Katherine on the other hand were the perfect couple, but in the worst decision in TV history she had to die and Elena got to live.

Amen to everything. Steferine should've been Stefan's endgame.

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Yeah, I kinda feel bad for the SEs bc they pretty much wrecked what could have been nice, and let it crash and burn hard. I think it's safe to say now that SE is never happening, not just bc of SC, but just because of Stefan and Elena themselves. They've moved on, they're different people from when they first started with different motovations and wants now. If Stefan and Elena somehow ended up being the only survivors of the show, they still wouldn't get together.

But anyway, I'm happy with the outcome and happy to Stefan happy and getting a family he always deserves. As well as Caroline.

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If you wanted Stefan to 'forget' Elena, you should've paired him up with Valeries, because they actually made some sense.


Yess!! I am still so bitter that they would introduce Valerie as a proper way to have a clean slate, a romance away from this incestuous group of friends, away from Elena memories, and with someone who is allegedly his 'first' love.

Why not just stick with that?? That made so much more sense from a writing POV. It worked so well as Stefan's new romance.

But instead of pursuing that, they had to write her off and rush to put together some Steroline reunion.

A rose is just a rose.

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I agree completely. Stelarie was great and I miss it so bad.

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