and was always trying to bribe her with presents and candy? Does anyone have an opinion as to what the point of that was, and where did it come from in this so-called true story.
shareshe knew
shareHe wanted her love and respect but she was replused by gangsters and their evil, criminal activities.
shareI notice you running around trying to answer everything with declarative sentences that you don't know, and neither does anyone else. The girl knew nothing at that point of gangster criminal activities.
shareThat's what I got from the movie too though. The book may be a different story I dunno, but if we are talking about Peggy, I think she realised what Sheeran was really like and when Hoffa was supposedly killed as the movie suggests, Peggy put two and two together and cut Sheeran out of her life.
I think she cut him out because from her point of view, she was disgusted that Sheeran could kill his friend Hoffa (a guy he'd known for a few years)
I really need to watch this movie again. I have mixed emotions about this film overall.
> she was disgusted that Sheeran could kill his friend Hoffa
Or he killed "her" friend, because I think she felt more safe with Hoffa, and honestly, though Hoffa was a tough guy, and consorted with a lot of nasty mf-ers. Hoffa was totally different from every one of the Mafia goons she had contact with.
Maybe that is the thing the movie should have been more about or focused on, comparing and contrasting the Mafia with the Unions and educating people. What he did was just more Scorsese BS ... violence and half-truths and pandering to people with violence and ... fake news maybe? ;-)
I think his daughters are all still alive ... it would be interesting if one or all of them would get together and write a book about their family, and what they thought of their dad, and his buddies and Hoffa. That might have been a worthwhile movie. All in all I just do not care much or Scorcese's movies, but it cannot be easy and is an achievement to become a famous US director ... just not my cup of tea, but his movies are almost national events.
This one was not that good.
For his movies, I thought "The Departed" was the most technically tight, the first half was choreographed like a fricking ballet, but then it feel apart about half-way through to get the requisite amount of violence and outrage. For me personally I can't say I feel that anything he has done has been a masterpiece, but also, I don't think he's ever made a total stinker either.
Well Brux, that's just, like, your opinion, man. It's what it is.
shareActually it was made clear throughout the film if you pay attention to her reactions to the gangsters and their violent behaviour, and the other daughter clarifies how they felt about their dad at the end. If you spend more time paying attention to the film and less time obnoxiously farting out ill-considered interjections on these boards you might be able to make some valuable contributions.
..... well, uh, just forget it.
It seems to be impossible for you to discuss something without condescending bullshit and having an emotional meltdown.
So, just forget it, with all your pointless and stupid personal attacks and intolerance of anyone's differing opinion - you are just unpleasant irritating and now on ignore.
No, we won’t ‘forget it’, you’ll continue to be corrected where you’re wrong. Now, do you have anything else to add to the topic under discussion?
shareThank you Drooch, I can’t believe how stupid some of these people are. It was clearly shown and talked about in the movie that she was repulsed by the mafia lifestyle. Some clown on here said “how would should know”. Frank says in the movie that she reads the papers and she witnessed her dad beat the shit out of the grocery store guy. WATCH THE MOVIE!
shareSays the moron suggesting he was a pedophile.
shareShe did know. That's why she didn't like her father. She always knew. She saw what he was capable of and she saw the people he brought around.
shareActually, not only was his answer to your question accurate, but it was made pretty clear by the movie. The girl had seen what her father did the grocery store owner who pushed her, and had a pretty good sense of what he now did for a living. Now this Russ guy was hanging around, who obviously has a lot of money, but its not clear what exactly he does for a living. He was just trying to get her to stop giving him that knowing look, and treat him like a favorite uncle. Also, Russ and his wife couldn't have children of their own so they probably loved getting affection from the kids of his associates, and it bothered him that this one girl wouldn't take the bait of all the gifts and money.
Adding to this was her immediate admiration and affection for Hoffa. In her eyes not only did he have a legitimate job, but he was dedicated to helping working class guys like her father used to be. She might have been a little naïve not to realize that if Hoffa was doing business with known gangsters like Russ and her father, then he's probably doing unsavory things as well, but she was willing to overlook that.
Glad to hear your opinion, wrong as it is, but I will not communicate or discuss anything with someone who cannot tell their difference between their opinions and reality.
Sorry, but I think you are way wrong about that scene. First, I think it was before the beatdown in the grocery store, I could be wrong about that ... I will go back and check. I don't think it matters though.
Most polite adults in this age smiled and ignored kids, in fact most kids at this time were not even around when adults were around.
From some of your answers you seem to take any stand as long as it is unreservedly in support of this movie. Fine, you like it, but you do not have a monopoly on truth or opinions.
Finally I was talking about Russ, not Hoffa. She seemed to like Hoffa, but Hoffa did not care or cater to her. She was suspicious, naturally as most kids, of strangers offering them candy ... recall the phrase offering candy to a baby ... do you know what that means? Did you miss that he offered her candy?
Hoffa did not care or cater to her??? share
The grocery beatdown was at 28:30. The bowling alley was 43:20 and Christmas was 1:01:15. People are allowed to have different opinions, but facts remain the same.
Of course I was aware that you were asking about Russ, which is why I sufficiently answered that question first. I merely mentioned her relationship with Hoffa to show the contrast between how she viewed the two men. Hoffa DID care about how she felt about him, and DID cater to her (the special ice cream just for the two of them) and her joyful response to it and him were the responses that Russ was trying to buy his way to. This is relevant because it shows that she wasn't just a shy girl who was scared of men. It was just men like her father and Russ.
I did enjoy the movie. But it wasn't without its flaws. The length didn't bother me, but it could have been under 3 hours. The aging would have worked better if the movie was made 25 years ago when the guys were closer to the age of their characters. But if you're willing to over look the age of the guys (especially the grocery beat down, ughhh) then the movie is very enjoyable. But I've never told anybody they were wrong for not liking it. That's the thing about opinions. As long as their truthful, their not wrong.
Thanks for finding the timing of the events.
Hoffa did not offer her candy, or show too much interest in her
or try to chat her up with stupid jokes about why God made the
sky so high. He is creepy, and inappropriate. Now ... was that
just some stupid mistake, or what it put in the movie for a reason?
You tell me.
I really don't even know why you are arguing about this.
The other thing, but not mentioned in the movies, was that according
to the record Hoffa had Sheeran kill some problematic union people.
That was one thing I learned from this movie. I did not realize that
Hoffa made that kind of tragic deal with the Mafia to protect the union.
Hoffa DID show interest in her when they were playing mini-golf. And instead of candy he bought ice cream sundaes for just the two of them, (and not anyone else, including her siblings). Sure he didn't try to win her over with jokes or by flattering her, but that was because he didn't have too. She already thought the world of him. She did think Russ was creepy, but telling jokes or offering candy was the least of the reasons. She was creeped out by him because she knew what guy he was, and wanted nothing to do with him.
I'm not arguing. Just simply pointing out the factual mistakes you're making when you're trying to tell people their opinions are wrong.
What a jerk.
The director was clearly trying to set up a contrast between Peggy's relationship with Hoffa and her relationship with Russ and you seem intent on cancelling it out or saying it was muddy or a mistake. The areas for discussion here are why and what. But your intent just seems to be to troll.
My comments are not factual mistakes ... but yours are deliberate trolls.
So, you are on ignore. I don't understand why anyone would waste the time of their lives just trying to irritate other people - not my game, bye.
It has seemed to me that your entire purpose on these forums is to irritate other people, so your final statement is hard to believe.
You are constantly passive aggressive and also like to make hostile remarks toward anyone with different political beliefs.
Usually I just ignore you because of the above but I thought it important that you know exactly how you come off to others.
Hoffa did not offer her candy, or show too much interest in her or try to chat her up with stupid jokes about why God made the sky so high. He is creepy, and inappropriate. Now ... was that just some stupid mistake, or what it put in the movie for a reason?
If you're going to tell everyone they are wrong because you think you already know the answer then why did you fucking start this thread? Attention?
share> TheArgentinian
> Says the moron suggesting he was a pedophile.
Wisely deleted, unwisely written and posted in the first place.
Another new troll account with a few comments.
TheArgentinian - IGNORED
I didn't delete shit. That reply is still there, moron.
New account? Where tf did you get that, you sad, stalking, paranoid fuck.
You're just mad no one is taking your stupid thread seriously.
She knew he was an evil guy who was trying too hard.
shareKids are smarter than some people give them credit for. Throughout the film, she suspected her father and his associates were not honest people.
shareWhile it is true kids are smarter, but mostly way more intuitive than adults because they have less experience and have to rely on feelings. The feeling Russ gave off was creepy.
shareRussell Bufalino was an evil person who (I'm not saying he was 100% for sure a pedophile, but he definitely) was giving off creepy pedo vibes during those scenes (not sure if that was intentional or mishandled by Scorsese and Pesci). Peggy could sense Russell's evil energy and made sure she stayed away from him. She didn't trust him, smart girl. Jimmy Hoffa, on the hand, was (if not for his connections to the mob, was almost entirely) a good person. Peggy right away sensed Jimmy's good energy and immediately trusted him and liked him.
shareThank you for your sane and humanistic comment.
Look at Italian culture and the Catholic Church and their obsession with violence, crime and sexual perversion ... not that all cultures do not have some of that. But in these closed groups, like Hollywood, the Church, the Mafia there is a lot of secrets and abuse.
I agree, it was completely perceptible in the movie that there was a creep vibe from Russ to Peggy, and I was honestly amazed at how many trolls came out to deny it or try to spin it. LOL.
This could have been a really good movie if they had just shifted the plot and conflict to be more about Hoffa and who he was, and less about the lying scumbag no one can trust, Frank Sheeran.
Since the framework of the story was mostly based on a bullshit from Frank, who is the book written about him seems to be all about trying to take credit for every big Mafia crime or hit, it seems like it would have been better to contrast the soul and crimes of Frank Sheeran with the soul and crimes of Jimmy Hoffa. Hoffa was no saint, and consorted with and ultimately got run over by the mob by using them to stand up to the 0.01% who were beating up. ripping off, stealing from the middle class of America. What else could he do? ... or we never would have heard of him or the Teamsters.
I don't think the writers of this movie were skilled enough to tell that story, so they just re-did Casino and Goodfellas.
I'm not here to convince you that The Irishman is a masterpiece or anything (because it's not an excellent movie like Goodfellas or Casino), but I think it was a well made, well acted and very enjoyable movie. The writer(s) did a fine job. The Irishman stands on it's own, it was not a redo of Scorsese's other mob movies. Frank Sheeran was not a good person (and as such, he ultimately sacrificed his relationship with Peggy because of the bad choices he made), but he was the central character and you'll have to get over the fact that it was not (or never meant to be) a Jimmy Hoffa movie. Frank Sheeran lived to regret his bad choices. Scorsese did a good job balancing the characters in the movie (including the amount of screen time for each actor, except for Harvey Keitel, I thought Scorsese should've given him more scenes). Martin Scorsese is a master filmmaker who continues to create art that imitates life.
shareThat's OK. I don't want to fight with anyone who likes the movie. I'm merely expressing what I think. If you like the movie, hate the movie or love the movie ... great!
I don't think Sheeran was a human being. He was a psychopath, and that explains the organized crime and the violence.
The main character was surely Sheeran, but if the movie was about Sheeran why have Hoffa in there so often and close to Sheeran ... apparently anyway. We are led to believe that Sheeran and Hoffa were close and all that, but I a skeptical. Sheeran was already a cold blooded killed psychopath in the war. He started killing people soon after he got back from the war. We see Sheeran and Hoffa developing a relationship ... but I have to wonder about that.
Really, anything could have been happening here, and going off this book about painting houses ... Google it. There is a lot of stuff Sheeran claimed that no one beleives, and many think he was a pathologial liar and Sheeran was a Mafia grunt, and that none of it is true.
Funny place for an artistic character analysis.
Very creepy scenes. I think the implication is that Pesci's character was potentially pedo. I'm glad they didn't go too much deeper into it.
share