MovieChat Forums > Stargate Universe (2009) Discussion > Why did so many HATE HATE HATE the stone...

Why did so many HATE HATE HATE the stones?

posted 12 years ago by milamontagne
41 replies | jump to latest

First, to start this off: I never really became a big stargate fan until after everthing was said and done.

I very much enjoyed SG1 up untill the ORI story Arc (which was good, but not
as good as previous seasons. Stargate Atlantis had its momments, and the characters were the spotlight of the story which really brought it home for me.
Stargate: Universe totally blew my mind away, especially with the body-swapping
stones. Ive had it explained by a longtime fan on how it ruined the series because they could have brought in more specialized personnel.

Ok. I can accept that from a Executive producers position. Can't afford it.

I understand that it hurts the overall storyline if they actually had brought in
personnel. But in the short span of time we got to watch it, the more familiar faces could have been explained as on something extremely more important. The cold facts are: They are on what might very well turn out to be a suicide mission. Destiny was soo old and facing constant danger that it makes sense to
risk the lives of less important people. Remember that if someone died on eithor end, it was pretty much over. Heartless? Yes. Truth? Yes again. The more
skilled hands (such as Sam and Dr. McKay) had already endured soo much mental, emotional, and physical stress that it makes sense to leave them in advisory
positions (at least for the momment, the length of the momment to be determined
by how much budget the show could afford at any given season)

So thats my question here: Why the hatred of the stones? Why couldn't more people see it for what it was: An extremely unique or at least refreshing storytelling element. Yes, i know its been done before, but its one of those things that hardly sees the light of day that it pretty much well be. That said, I find such devices (tropes) hardly used in mainstream fiction and relegated to corny, dismal pieces or such formulaic plotlines that 10 seconds in i already have guessed the conclusion. Sadly, this is why it almost never comes up in anything anymore: Its seen as so cliché that writers avoid it like the plague. This is also the reason i thought so highly of the producers and writers: For daring to attempt it. If producers and writers arn't willing
(and at least supported in such an attempt) todo such things, we might as well
start watching nothing but horrible reality shows (cheap writers staying inside the safety zone)

While, yes, I am a bit biased towards such tropes, this was one of the few more mainstream attempts with it that didnt make it a one trick pony.

Sorry about the overlong rant.

[–] magnus166 11 years ago

I don't mind the stones in theory and they were used well sometimes. I hated how they were used in season 1 (the first part anyway). The first half of season 1 was horrific and part of it was all the inconsequential drama happening at home.

[–] saturnjwl 11 years ago

I think, in Season One, they used the stones to attempt to make the series a bit like 'Lost'. They relied heavily on 'real life' drama back on Earth and therefore featured less serious plots aboard the Destiny. It was just frustrating, as a viewer, to have the show feel like it was stuck between being prime time drama and serious science fiction.
Also, the stones never made sense to me. In order to transfer someone into another body you would have to change the host body's brain physiology... It makes no sense otherwise. And that just seems like a pretty serious undertaking, even for ancient technology. So the tech itself always seemed a little 'deus ex machina', or overly convenient, for me, and having an entire show focused on it, as in Season One, was unappealing.

Overall, though, I really loved SGU. I've seen the whole series twice, and will probably watch it again and again. Maybe I'm wrong about the stones? They *do* provide a lot of flexibility and opportunities to tell some unique stories. And in any case, I definitely think it was a mistake to cancel this show. If anything it should have been on a broadcast network like NBC, ABC, or FOX, instead of Syfy.

[–] xxhelterskelterxx 11 years ago

Presumably the stones don't actually transfer consciousness, they just allow you to use someone's body by remote, so to speak.

[–] saturnjwl 11 years ago

That's fair. It still seems like a too convenient, deus ex machina, kind of technology, though.

[–] transmentalist 11 years ago

I wasn't a SG fan before, but I liked the stones.

They allowed the characters a taste of life back home. If anything, it made their isolation more poignant. I was especially struck by the image of the blinded character standing in the rain, experiencing the sight of earth for possibly the last time.

[–] TexasBEAST 11 years ago

[...] I liked the stones.

They allowed the characters a taste of life back home. If anything, it made their isolation more poignant.

Exactly. The stones allowed people to BRIEFLY communicate with home, but not to actually go back there. There was a time limit, which was even shorter than if they had gone on leave through the gate or by ship. Also recall Reiko Aylesworth's character's line to Ming-Na's about how, as great as stone visitations were, they still weren't the same (or as good) as the real thing. There was still always something lacking. This always made stone visitations bittersweet.

The haters discount the limitations of stone visitations, and overstate the strengths thereof.

[–] saturnjwl 10 years ago

I think it comes down to how much you enjoyed watching the visits home. I really enjoyed the action/drama aboard the destiny, and just wasn't very interested in their lives back home. I think the producers/writers used the stones as a crutch, because they were afraid to delve into new territory (e.g. new aliens, new story arcs, and figuring out Destiny's mission).

Even the Lucian Alliance story, which I wasn't particularly fond of, was made possible with the stones. It was a way to easily bring in old characters and easy-to-write drama.

[–] Lopsided55 11 years ago

It's a cheat that undermine the premise of the show. SGU was frustratingly fond of deus ex machinas.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] saturnjwl 10 years ago

I agree. I think, above all, it was a crutch for a show that was afraid to walk on its own. It's easy to go back and say 'the show would have been better if ______', but I actually really liked SGU except for the stones.

I think it was just too scary for the writers to create a show completely separated from the already existing Stargate world.

I think if you removed all the 'stones' plots [including the lucian alliance] then you would have a really solid first season.

[–] i_dont_even_try 11 years ago

Ignorance. The hate comes from willful ignorance. Which is to say, stupidity.

[–] HouseT 11 years ago

I never had an issue with the stones as a plot device. I had a few issues with how the stones were used in various episodes, but that's more my distaste of the actual storytelling for those episodes.

The stones themselves were a perfectly valid addition to the show. People getting a taste of home life was more likely to add drama than relieve it (which is what happened in the well made episodes). And while sending a few extra experts to the Destiny might have made sense in the long run, there was a risk attached to it. Also, we don't know what they were involved in on Earth (several episodes alluded heavily to their being other issues that might need the attention of the SGC).

Also, there's no guarantee that any of the "known" SG team experts would have any more luck than the people they had ont he ship would. Yes, we assume that Carter or McKay would have better luck than most because... well, that's what we've been shown. But there's no guarantee that that would be the case.

[–] narnia4 11 years ago

Here's my main three reasons why the stones suck.

1. The stones could also be accurately called plot hole generators, particularly early on. We're constantly reminded that "these are the are the wrong people", and yet the right people are a stone's touch away. Even if you accept that Rush is the foremost expert on Destiny, there's just no way that experts and specialists wouldn't have been useful. Its more blatant in some episodes than others, and later on its more understandable as the crew that's there become competent and learn more about Destiny than the people on Earth would be able to.

2. They instantly undercut the show's premise and damage its appeal. The crew being cut off from Earth without help, having to make their own decisions, dealing with the solitude and not being able to see their families. To reveal the stones in episode two is an almost unbelievably dumb decision imo.

3. The episodes dealing with the stones tended to be the bad episodes, the ones that dealt more with drama that most weren't interested in seeing.

I will say in fairness, most of these issues were somewhat dealt with and/or disappeared by season two. There was even eventually a really good episode heavily focused on using the stones.

"Don't move! Or I'll fill you full of . . . little yellow bolts of light!"

[–] luigimario1993 10 years ago

I gotta' agree with all of your points -- Any episode that had the Stones as a plot-device for the episode's sole plot was pretty redundant. I also look at it from a studio perspective.

They're stranded literally across the universe and they have zero ways of getting back or getting supplies and personnel from Earth. In Atlantis, we all knew the SGC would eventually reach Atlantis with the next ship behind the Prometheus, which they KNEW where the location was.

The stones were the only viable way for them to bring on people as 'Guest Stars', unless a portion of the episode was elsewhere in the Milky Way, like with McKay. He was a guest star, but the episode wasn't exclusively taking place on Destiny. As much as the stones bothered me, I can understand the purpose from a producer's standpoint. Need to keep bringing in guest or recurring stars, and the Stones were the only 'plausible' way to do that. And yes, I know the Stones are essentially *beep* in what they can do, so 'plausible' in reality isn't even close but for the show perspective, you get the point.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] She-Ra42 10 years ago

Everyone seems to forget that the stones cannot be used all the time (i.e., during jumps, etc., and that people's consciousness can be easily interrupted while using the stones. (Not to mention that bodies can be hijacked by enemies, etc). There are plenty of times when "these are the wrong people" and that's true and they're the only people to which there is access. There is also the artifact that they can't just give consent to any old person in the world. Then, there's the whole thing that it doesn't matter whose consciousness is transferred, it's still someone else's body so they're going to be limited by that body and probably by the sense memory of that body. So you need a detailed tech or surgeon? Well if they're not working with their own eyes and hands, etc., probably going to be facing some problems with having "the best person" on board. Also, given that there are several out of shape scientists or people suffering depression or PTSD or stuff like that -- there are only 5 stones. Their bodies and minds aren't going to be automatically okay either.

For a survival mission ideally you'd need fit, mentally stable, and highly trained people. And if you only have 5 stones, no amount of swapping is going to keep a big group of unhealthy people alive. So they aren't the deus ex machina everyone is claiming.

On top of that -- people who are saying "This isn't what the show is supposed to be!" WHAT? You aren't the one who created or wrote the show. The stones were in the first episode. Who the hell are you to say what the show is supposed to be.

"Jack go to the liquor store and findeth the Jack of Daniels so that ye may be sh*tfaced!"

[–] splitenz12 10 years ago

The stones were a necessity, remember Destiny was not like Battlestar Galatica which was part of a fleet. And there was no universal translators like in Star Trek, or humans on nearly every planet like with SG1 and Atlantis. So if they didn't have it you would have just had the same characters talking to each other all the time. May have worked for a mini-series but not multiple seasons.

They allowed the writers more room to manoeuvre.Yes it went a bit soapy on occasions but it also meant they could bring in O'Neil, Jackson and McKay. Plus control issues with the IOA and Telford.

[–] BiggusD 10 years ago

To start off, I didn't -love- Universe. It focused too much on the past, with flashbacks and the communication stones together making progress on the ship itself extremely slow.

I really liked how they used the setting. The spaceship pretty much ran the show and that is the way you should really use the setting in Sci-Fi. If you don't plan on using the setting actively, why bother placing the story on an alien planet, in space or in the future? Stargate: Universe serves as an excellent example of how to do this properly.

This is in my opinion the best part of the show.

Now, the communication stones served as plot devices that allowed the show to build its characters, to make them rounded and human. The flashbacks did too. However, how does the broken marriage of the Colonel help us understand his motivations when he made the choices and gave the orders that he did on Destiny in the present?

Answer: it didn't. Yes, we know more about the person, but the fact that he had marital problems back home in no way served to drive the present storyline onboard the starship. This is a bad idea in terms of storyline pacing, and the build-up of tension was erratic at best. It was frustrating to watch!

Fast-paced action, danger, quick decisions!
Glacial melancholia, irrelevant decisions if any...
Fast-paced action, danger, quick decisions!
Glacial melancholia, irrelevant decisions if any...
Fast-paced action, danger, quick decisions!
Cliffhanger stuff for next episode.
The end.

I'm sorry but the above is how NOT to do a TV-show episode, especially when the red line through the whole series was a very interesting premise, and the exploration of that premise suffered because of what was essentially filler. The sad part is that they could have done both at the same time! They could have built the characters through words and actions taken in the course of exploring the main storyline!

[–] GOTArrow 10 years ago

The stones were my favourite part!
If they were just constantly on the ship it would have gotten boring REALLY quick.

Also, from a character point of view, it showed them what they were missing back home, which made being on the ship even worse.