MovieChat Forums > Death Note (2017) Discussion > Who cares if they are white..

Who cares if they are white..

posted 8 years ago by karge_of_heavens2004
89 replies | jump to latest

If y'all can accept the fact that Hollywood plans to cater to a western audience, then it shouldn't be a surprise that they're gonna wanna cast a white actor for leading role of Death Note. "Uh since when is America just white people? Theres a thing called Asian-American population so theres simply no excuse!" Okay sure, but then you would have to use that same argument and then proceed to take issue with each and every Hollywood movie where there is a white main character... Good luck with that. Lack of diversity in main casting has plagued Hollywood since its conception, why would you expect it to suddenly change now?

The fact remains that this story can work in pretty much any given culture. So let's face it, the only reason why you want to cast an Asian lead for the American adaptation is to remind the audience that it's based on a Japanese manga, and has little to do with whether it's actually necessary for the story. Why must it necessarily be an Asian student who picks up the death note in America? Why must the genius-eccentric detective in America be an Asian character? Besides, if it were the case where the story of Death Note was originally written in an American setting (not based on manga), you can bet that the main character would be white and you can also bet that no one would bat an eye...

[–] alexanderthekaiser 8 years ago

My problem is the fact that the director is a retard and the writers are stupid *beep*

Some BODY once told me.

[–] h-42018 8 years ago

Who cares about your problems.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] h-42018 8 years ago

lol what are you, 12?

[–] Bioparadoxous 8 years ago

My problem is the fact that the director is a retard and the writers are stupid *beep*

Oh no... they got a horror guy to be the director, and there's hardly a decent movie among all four of them...

--
There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that!

[–] Thenewnexus 8 years ago

Light Yagamgi is Asian,so there is no reason an Asian American actor can't play him especially in an American setting

Class is Pain 101. Your instructor is Casey Jones

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

The original story is set in Japan, of course he's freakin Asian in that one. The idea of a handsome, cunning, egomaniac high school student can translate to any culture. There is no reason why an actor of any ethnicity can't play him especially in an American setting.. so why does he necessarily have to be Asian-American in the new adaptation again?

[–] Thenewnexus 8 years ago

All that is changing is the setting that's it and the setting is America,there are Asian Americans,Light can still be Asian American.

You ever hear of the crying Freeman? That movie was set in North America and had an Asian American actor as the lead. If it worked for Crying Freeman it can work for Death Note

Class is Pain 101. Your instructor is Casey Jones

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

Yup, just as he could be an African-American, an Indian-American or a Jewish-American. Light can be a descendent of literally any race and it could still work for the story.

"You ever hear of the crying Freeman?"

No I haven't and that's probably because it's a b-movie that didn't even see a release in America.

[–] Thenewnexus 8 years ago

People use that argument that the character can be any race,but it always ends up going to a white actor

An Asian American actor was a denied an audition for being Asian
http://youtu.be/hdxz2htgPiQ

I know the Crying Freeman did not gey a US theatrical release, but it was a good movie,probably best North American film based on an Anime and had an Asian American Actor as the main character,same could have been done with this and any whitewashed Anime films

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

Yes, the issue of diversity in Hollywood is a widely known. You should understand that it isn't limited to anime adaptations.

The movie you referenced did poorly in the west so probably shouldn't be used as an example to strengthen your argument..

[–] Thenewnexus 8 years ago

I am very aware of the issue but you seem to be OK with Racism.

Crying Freeman is a great Anime movie with an Asian American Lead it does help my argument

Class is Pain 101. Your instructor is Casey Jones

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

I am very aware of the issue

Are you sure? The fact that you're freaking out about this movie shows otherwise.

but you seem to be OK with Racism.

Nope. I'm just not surprised when it occurs because I'm able to observe it in a wider social context which you clearly cannot. Ironically, you seem to be okay with perpetuating racial discrimination in casting roles of universal traits.

Crying Freeman is a great Anime movie with an Asian American Lead it does help my argument.

No it doesn't help your argument at all. You're using the fact that you enjoyed the movie to prove that it was a success in America.. because you now realize it wasn't even shown in America. Really grasping at straws here man..

[–] Thenewnexus 8 years ago

No the fact that I am talking about this movie means I am aware of the issue,but like a typical racist you argue it's a bigger problem than just Anime films,your not fooling anybody

I already knew Crying Freeman was not released in Us theaters,I was saying it was a good adaption and had an Asian American actor. If you wAnna talk about moviesshown in US theaters,well Dragon Ball and Speed Racer had white leads and bombed and were bad films

Class is Pain 101. Your instructor is Casey Jones

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

No it's the opposite.. the fact that you're freaking out about this movie clearly means that you don't understand how the film industry works. And so you don't think it's a bigger problem than just anime films? You are already fooling yourself.

Are you seriously still arguing that that b-movie was a success in the west because you personally liked it? Your whole point was that a movie with an Asian-American lead can still work in capturing a western audience and then hilariously proceeded to use a movie that's obscure in North America. This is priceless. Also, way to be blatantly selective in ignoring successes such as Edge of Tomorrow and Pacific Rim.

[–] Thenewnexus 8 years ago

There you go again with that bigger problems be,you are not fooling anybody

Crying Freeman very well could have done well if it got a theatrical release,good movie and it was not whitewashed thats what people wanna see not trash like this. You should not use Movies like EoT because it was whitewashed and it underperformed.

Just stop things are not looking good for you

Class is Pain 101. Your instructor is Casey Jones

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

There you go again with that bigger problems be,you are not fooling anybody

So you are denying that the issue of diversity is bigger than anime adaptations? At this point, I'm wondering whether you're fooling yourself or just a fool..

Crying Freeman very well could have done well if it got a theatrical release

And now you've resorted to framing personal speculation as fact.. this is beyond desperation..

You should use Movies like EoT because it was whitewashed and it underperformed.

Edge of Tomorrow made double its budget, you literally have no idea what you're talking about.

Just stop things are not looking good fot

You don't seriously believe that you're winning this argument do you?

[–] Thenewnexus 8 years ago

So you are denying that the issue of diversity is bigger than anime adaptations? At this point, I'm wondering whether you're fooling yourself or just a fool.

The only fool here is you

And now you've resorted to framing personal speculation as fact.. this is beyond desperation..

Not exactly personal speculation,more speculation from what I have already seen
Speed Racer and Dragon BAll were whitewashed movies,both were terrible and bombed,Crying Freeman might have had a more positive result than those two if it was shown in theaters

Edge of Tomorrow made double its budget, you literally have no idea what you're talking about.

you are the one that does not know what you are talking about,you forgot marketing expenses,so yeah it unperformed

You don't seriously believe that you're winning this argument do you?

You lost the second you created this thread 

Class is Pain 101. Your instructor is Casey Jones

[–] JohnBonDon 8 years ago

Edge of Tomorrow made double its budget, you literally have no idea what you're talking about.

Look who's talking. It is a fact that Edge of Tomorrow underperformed. It was widely acknowledged in the media that it did less than what was expected. Here is an article talking all about it: http://screencrush.com/edge-of-tomorrow-box-office/

From the above article:

I have mixed feelings about box office results. On one hand, why should I care? Take the recent underwhelming performance of ‘Edge of Tomorrow’ – a movie that I like quite a bit – as long as I found enjoyment while watching the movie, why should I care how much money the film made at the box office?

Also:

On Monday, Warner Bros. sent out an email asking a few members of the media to use social media and help get the word out about ‘Edge of Tomorrow.’ This was remarkable for a couple of reasons. First, this wasn’t a typical press release kind of thing; it read as an impassioned plea. Second, I’ve never really seen anything like this before, especially for a big budget studio movie that has already underperformed.

The above is particularly telling. Edge of Tomorrow so underperformed that Warner Brothers was literally asking people after the movie came out to keep spreading the word of the movie because they were so desperate.

So yeah, good job on opening yourself up to look like a complete and utter ignoramus.  But I shouldn't be surprised that this is from a guy trying to defend white supremacy.

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

This is too funny.

Out of all the points I made in this thread you decided jump in and address this one. Did you really base your argument off an opinion article on the internet? Of which doesnt even mention any number figures? I guess you were just too eager to quote it because it conveniently aligned with your agenda. Edge of Tomorrow made profit, it made more than its budget including additional costs. You can throw around those terms all you want but from a business POV it's a success. They're even discussing a sequel which will almost definitely happen. Do some actual research next time.

It's baffling that you don't see the extreme irony of how you keep using the argument that America is multicultural and then proceed to demand the casting of one specific race.. in a role of which race does not even matter for the story.

Seriously, you need to chill out. At least wait for the trailer to come out before you get your panty in a bunch. No need to be such a fanatic dude.

[–] JohnBonDon 8 years ago

Did you really base your argument off an opinion article on the internet?

Sorry but that article laid out facts. Facts that are not in your favor.

Edge of Tomorrow under performed. That is well known in the industry.

You've been debunked.

It's baffling that you don't see the extreme irony of how you keep using the argument that America is multicultural and then proceed to demand the casting of one specific race..

Nice try at misrepresenting the truth. That specific race (white) is the one that is being picked above all the others (nonwhite). That spits in the face of the multi-racial population that America offers.

in a role of which race does not even matter for the story.

So why aren't you arguing against those that bash a black L? 

Seriously, you need to chill out.

You're projecting. You're the one that's worried that white privilege is being threatened by people rightfully challenging white supremacy. 

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

Sorry but that article laid out facts. Facts that are not in your favor.

What facts? Where are the figures? That article laid out opinions and retrospective speculations. You just saw the part where the author said "under performed" and pounced on it by spinning it as fact "in your favour".

Edge of Tomorrow under performed. That is well known in the industry.

Again, you haven't actually looked at the facts and sheepishly rely on the claims of article authors. Throw around those loose terms all you want, if you do actual research, you'd realize that the movie made profit and more than broke even. That's bottom line for the studio. Case in point, a sequel is currently in the talks and Tom Cruise is in.

You've been debunked.

Sure dude, just like the time you "debunked" that other poster by citing your own post as fact. That was hilarious. Keep it up mythbusters.

Nice try at misrepresenting the truth. That specific race (white) is the one that is being picked above all the others (nonwhite). That spits in the face of the multi-racial population that America offers.

...And you're doing no better by demanding another specific race be cast in a context where 1. It's a multicultural country (ironically your point) 2. it's not even essential for the story at hand.. It's mighty unreasonable, but well, you're a mighty social justice warrior right?

So why aren't you arguing against those that bash a black L?

I've repeatedly said that race doesn't matter. That obviously means that black L doesn't matter either. Most whiners in this board such as yourself are clearly more concerned with the lead's race and treat L as a token black because the casting doesn't align with your silly white supremacist theory.

You're projecting. You're the one that's worried that white privilege is being threatened by people rightfully challenging white supremacy

It's obvious to anyone here that you're the one freaking out over this race thing. Seriously dude.. did you get bullied at school or something?

[–] JohnBonDon 8 years ago

What facts?

I already quoted them.

You just saw the part where the author said "under performed" and pounced on it by spinning it as fact "in your favour".

Nope. He specifically points out Warner Brothers' actions and how it was unprecedented which is because the movie's box office take was disappointing for them.

Case in point, a sequel is currently in the talks and Tom Cruise is in.

That's not proving your case at all because there is also talks about a sequel for Dredd which famously bombed at the box office.

You just saw the part where the author said "under performed" and pounced on it by spinning it as fact "in your favour".

Nope. He specifically points out the actions of Warner Bros. and notes that it was unprecedented and not the actions that a studio would take if the movie did so well.

Sure dude, just like the time you "debunked" that other poster by citing your own post as fact.

Because that post of mine had facts.

If I write that 2 + 2 = 4, it doesn't become false because I wrote it. It's a fact regardless of who wrote it.

...And you're doing no better by demanding another specific race be cast in a context where

Once again you are misrepresenting the situation. You're not that dumb. You know very well that nonwhites are being discriminated against but you are purposely ignoring this and acting as if whites are in the same boat as nonwhites in Hollywood. This dishonesty is typical of white supremacists.

I've repeatedly said that race doesn't matter. That obviously means that black L doesn't matter either.

You haven't answered my question:

So why aren't you arguing against those that bash a black L?

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

He specifically points out Warner Brothers' actions and how it was unprecedented which is because the movie's box office take was disappointing for them.

God forbid a film studio trying to market its own movie. You should give up the sensationalism and do some proper research. Again, the fact that the movie made profit is plain to see. I wonder when you will finally get this...

That's not proving your case at all because there is also talks about a sequel for Dredd which famously bombed at the box office.

Dredd did poor in the box office but sold very well in home media release. EoT already profited from box office alone. You are truly terrible at using examples.

Because that post of mine had facts.

Your post had zero facts. The first half was ridden with your own baseless claims while the other half droned on about a b-movie nobody cares about. It's all a bunch of drivel.. Not sure why you seem to be so proud of it.

If I write that 2 + 2 = 4, it doesn't become false because I wrote it. It's a fact regardless of who wrote it.

Only the difference is that the math equation is backed by sound logic and evidence while your arguments are not..

Once again you are misrepresenting the situation. You're not that dumb. You know very well that nonwhites are being discriminated against but you are purposely ignoring this and acting as if whites are in the same boat as nonwhites in Hollywood. This dishonesty is typical of white supremacists. ]

How is that misrepresenting the situation when it's exactly what you're proposing? You're demanding a specific race in a movie where it's not even important for the story. Again, that's the point of this thread so it's you who's misrepresenting the situation by deviating from the point.

You haven't answered my question:

So why aren't you arguing against those that bash a black L?

Yes I have.. why don't you read the part of my response you decided to omit? During that time Nat Wolff had a year's worth of complaints and L was revealed for like a month? Not to mention the fact that this thread is focused on the lead role of the film. Not to mention I clearly told you I support casting for L. Please tell me you're getting it now.

[–] Jcancelmo (22) 7 years ago

Japanese licensors may not have liked that idea, because an Asian American wouldn't be "visibly foreign".

In fact Asian Americans have a hard time getting foreign English teacher positions in China because the Chinese want people who are visibly foreign.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

Except that "each and every Hollywood movie where there is a white main character" is not based on source material about nonwhites. When they are, yes that is racist and wrong. They more than easily could have just made a movie with the same concept but not licensed (in fact someone did: Devil's Diary).

And are you seriously saying that prejudices from over a century ago should still be around today?

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

Except that doesn't make a difference because Netflix acquired the rights. It's their right to cast whoever they please if it works for their interpretation of the story. This version belongs to Hollywood, naturally the casting will resemble any other movie set in America. They are not obligated to cast their own film to how you envision it because it is not your vision. In fact, it is not even the original creator's vision. If you have a problem with that then you buy the rights and film one yourself.

"And are you seriously saying that prejudices from over a century ago should still be around today? "

You tell me. Feel free to quote where I said that.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

And the public is not obligated to support their racist trash. If they have problem with it they have every single right to voice that displeasure. That's how freedom of speech works.

The quote I was referring to was this one:
"Lack of diversity in main casting has plagued Hollywood since its conception, why would you expect it to suddenly change now?"

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

Of course people have the freedom to voice their opinions.. doesn't make it any less unreasonable though. For example, when the issue of diversity is heavily targeted at one movie while other ones are deemed more acceptable.

And here's another irony: Accusing of racism while aggressively insisting that the role of a character with universal traits living in a multicultural country can only be played by one particular race.

That's an odd interpretation of the quote. The point being made was that people are suddenly freaking out about Hollywood's lack of diversity as if it's something new, when in reality it's clear that it's always been this way. In other words, I was questioning people's expectations. Nothing to do with endorsing systematic discrimination.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

Of course people have the freedom to voice their opinions.. doesn't make it any less unreasonable though. For example, when the issue of diversity is heavily targeted at one movie while other ones are deemed more acceptable.

Because, as I said, those are cases where the characters were not POC. Of course nobody is going to take issue with white actors cast as characters who always were white.

And here's another irony: Accusing of racism while aggressively insisting that the role of a character with universal traits living in a multicultural country can only be played by one particular race.

No it isn't. What, is it sexism to say that the actor be male?

That's an odd interpretation of the quote. The point being made was that people are suddenly freaking out about Hollywood's lack of diversity as if it's something new, when in reality it's clear that it's always been this way. In other words, I was questioning people's expectations. Nothing to do with endorsing systematic discrimination.

"Always been this way" is exactly the problem. We aren't living in the 1890s anymore.

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

Because, as I said, those are cases where the characters were not POC. Of course nobody is going to take issue with white actors cast as characters who always were white.

And I already explained how that doesn't change things. This is a Hollywood film in all aspects. Of course they are going to market it the same way as any of their other productions. It is nonsensical to suggest that just because a homogeneous country naturally writes a character of its own kind, that a multicultural country MUST stick with that race despite the fact that there is nothing inherently ethnic about the original character. And yet, you keep insisting again and again. You cannot deny that is unreasonable.

No it isn't. What, is it sexism to say that the actor be male?

If you are denying that then you are being selective about what is racism. I'm just pointing out the double standard. Also, your gender example might not be sexist but it sure comes across as pedantic and xenophobic. A female lead could work in a story like Death Note.

"Always been this way" is exactly the problem. We aren't living in the 1890s anymore.

So now you realize that I wasn't saying that it should still be around right?

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

And I already explained how that doesn't change things. This is a Hollywood film in all aspects. Of course they are going to market it the same way as any of their other productions. It is nonsensical to suggest that just because a homogeneous country naturally writes a character of its own kind, that a multicultural country MUST stick with that race despite the fact that there is nothing inherently ethnic about the original character. And yet, you keep insisting again and again. You cannot deny that is unreasonable.

And as I said that absolutely does change things. This is not any other production, it is based on and licensed from specific material that its fans want to see done right.

If you are denying that then you are being selective about what is racism. I'm just pointing out the double standard. Also, your gender example might not be sexist but it sure comes across as pedantic and xenophobic. A female lead could work in a story like Death Note.

Again, no. Maybe if someone didn't apply the same standard across all groups, but I'm fairly certain these posters would be ones to also insist white characters be played by white actors, black characters be played by black actors, and so on.

So now you realize that I wasn't saying that it should still be around right?

We're good.

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

And they've already done due diligence by paying lots of money and clearing the licensing, so yes, it's now their production like any other production. They don't owe you anything. The main objective of the adaptation isn't to please the fans, it's to make money. It might be a harsh truth to accept, but it's the truth nonetheless. The fact is that the majority of ticket sales are expected to be from casual viewers, those who probably haven't read, watched, or even heard of Death Note. That's where the dollars come from.

There is nothing iconically Japanese about this character. This ain't no James Bond or Prince of Persia, it's some arrogant high school student who happens to be very smart and full of himself. The success of the film does not hinge on any one race (or gender for that matter).

Honestly, the greatest respect to the original is to make a great film, so what you really should be worried about are things that could actually get in the way of that instead of nitpicking about details that wouldn't affect the quality in the slightest.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

"Ticket sales"? Do you not know how Netflix works?

Also, why exactly wouldn't a faithful movie "make money"? And why should fans support a production that spits in their faces?

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

Yes I've used Netflix. Do you not know how a figures of speech work?

There's faithfulness and then there's fan service and being pedantic. You're insisting on the latter. The most common-sense expectation is that the film be faithful to the spirit of the original of which does not hinge on the main lead being a certain race, which is why I believe your complaint is misplaced.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

That "figure of speech" doesn't work here.

It's hardly pedantry to want something to be recognizable. The whole appeal of CBMs is to see the characters as we know them brought to life. Take those away and you're just left with a generic story, in which case there was no point in getting the license in the first place.

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

Yes it does work - you're just failing at reading comprehension. Don't forget your misreading incident earlier in the conversation, so probably not the greatest track record there. Speaking of pedantry, in the midst of so many relevant points to address from my other post, it's ironic that you decided to nitpick on this detail.

The whole point of an adaptation is to bring the story to a new audience. It's such a simple concept to grasp. Again, what you're describing which appeals to you is fan service and cosplay (plenty of content for that on the internet). The fact that you downplay Death Note's story while instead focusing heavily on appearances comes off as incredibly shallow and hopefully not an accurate representation of the fanbase.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

No it doesn't and nor is this any reading comprehension issue on my part but your own inability to be clear about what you mean. Fact is, this is not going to cost anybody anything (other than regular subscription fee) to see.

Adaptation means being brought to a new medium, not to screw around for no reason. The art and visuals are an intrinsic part of comics and keeping true to those is not mere fan service.

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

You need to learn to read between the lines. It's obvious I was emphasizing on the business aspect and the profitability of viewership among those demographics. Will you also get confused if someone were to say the movie flopped because technically no one paid to see it? Again, you're being pedantic.

Yes it is fan service because those things aren't integral to the movie or even the manga. If you seriously view Death Note as a generic story in which its only appeal is how characters look then you're enjoying it for the wrong reasons.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

Which again does not work here because no one will be paying anything for it.

Those things are indeed integral. People go into a Batman movie expecting to see Batman, not some random guy in random clothing doing vigilante stuff.

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

So what if no one directly paid to see it? The aim is to generate profit for the service and also the movie's success is measurable. I don't see the confusion here.

Do you seriously believe that a regular looking high school student has comparable emblematic power to that of Batman? You're actually proving my point that character physical features matter more in some stories than others.

It's silly to insist that race is integral to Death Note. You would probably avoid directly saying that because you know it sounds ridiculous.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

Their profit comes from subscribers. It is highly unlikely that this movie alone will convince anyone not already a subscriber to get the service.

The point is, properties are made what they are due to the characters and setting just as much as the events that play out. Take those away and it ceases to be recognizable and might as well not even have the license.

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

I don't think you fully understand the purpose of Netflix originals...

Yet even if the movie had a different name, people would still instantly recognize that it's Death Note. Setting and race might be central to other stories but it doesn't mean *beep* in Death Note unless you're a hypersensitive fan.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

Care to enlighten then?

Recognize how? That the story might be similar, ok sure, but nothing else. Again, CBMs are beloved because they bring what's on the page to life. Nobody wants to see uniconic generic figures on screen, no matter how "faithful in spirit" it might be.

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

Hell no, I ain't gonna repeat myself. Enlighten yourself by going back and read what I said. On the other hand, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on their purpose since you keep denying other explanations..

Sigh... recognize the fact that it's a Death Note movie despite the characters having different races. You are insisting otherwise.. which is totally ridiculous. Although, perhaps you might have trouble making the connection considering that you seem to rely on everything being spelled out for you..

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

No you never said anything about it. That's why I asked.

How? How would it be recognized when the title is different (per your hypothetical), no one looks their part, it's not set where it should be, etc.? All that it has is that similar concept, which does not need the license to make. Like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U38FryqtrA

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

No, you asked because you somehow didn't comprehend my point and need things spelled out for you. Any normal person reading my previous posts would understand my stance on the subject. Just riddle me this, why do you think Netflix spends millions to produce those originals?

Yeah, because no one recognized The Departed was a remake of Inferno Affairs in the exact same situation. Maybe you wouldn't since changing the race is enough to throw you off completely. Surely you can't be this dense.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

I can't comprehend something that was never given in the first place. This part of the discussion is relatively new, so no it was not something you would have previously addressed. My estimate would be to compete with other premium networks and services, showing what they have that the others won't.

Infernal Affairs was not a comic book and has no relevance to a discussion on CBMs. Let me make this easier: When Marvel releases a movie still, people can look at it and know exactly what they're seeing (and probably without even needing to be told which movie it is). People look at the L press conference picture and go "Huh? What the f_uck is that?"

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

This part of the discussion is relatively new,

You gotta be kidding me.. we've been talking about Netflix for at least 10 posts now, which was predominantly centered around the business aspect no less..

Exactly, so you do understand that with Death Note, Netflix hopes for it to generate profit for them in the long-run. Only, you seemed confused earlier when you refuted precisely that by suggesting that it's not going to make any difference for their gains, as if there's no point in producing it in the first place.. That's when your understanding came into question.

Infernal Affairs is totally relevant to the discussion. It's an example of another source material that got readapted with the same story but different characters and setting. So yes, we're dealing with essentially the same scenario so no need to be pedantic. With the Marvel thing, you're making that silly Batman analogy again. You can't compare the emblematic power between a regular looking high school student and Batman. When you see an on set photo of any Bruce Wayne actor in a business suit, would you also know exactly what you're seeing? Yes Batman is DC, before you embark on another line of nitpicking.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

Hence the "relatively" part of the sentence. Anyway, again no, the movie does not (directly) generate profit, the subscription fees do. And NF being what it is, this will very likely get lost in the flood of content. The only people who would bother to seek it out are the hardcore fans, which makes bastardizing the material all the dumber.

No it isn't relevant at all. The discussion is specifically about CBMs which it is not. As for Bruce Wayne in a suit, if the actor looked the part why wouldn't people think it was him?

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

It's been a long and drawn out topic. How you can think it's anywhere close to new is baffling.

Well it seems that you're confused after all.. Netflix hopes for the movie to generate profit, period. They are not going to spend 30 million on something they don't hope to gain in return. How are you not getting this?

It's completely relevant and you're being pedantic. The point of the discussion is that certain parts of the source material (setting/race) can be changed yet the adaptation can still be totally recognized. That's the point. You refused to accept it and so I've used an example illustrating exactly that. Now you're making lame excuses.

If you see a regular looking man in a tuxedo you automatically know it's Bruce Wayne? Sure you would..

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

Profit from who? The people that see it for FREE?

No, it isn't relevant at all. The point of discussions is CBMs and how recognizable or not one is to the original comic. If there is no original comic, then it is not relevant.

Bruce Wayne is known as a wealthy character so it would make sense that he would be wearing that. If he were going around everywhere wearing sports jerseys, that would be cause for confusion.

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

No idea why you're still acting as if the company doesn't hope to benefit from investing $40 million on a film.

The point: Connection to source material can still be recognized despite racial changes to characters.

Can you re-read the discussion? I didn't say that him wearing a suit wouldn't make sense. I said that if you saw a set photo of a guy wearing a business suit you certainly wouldn't make the Bruce Wayne connection.. just like your L conference example.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

They want to flush that much down the toilet, that's on them.

No it can't, not visually. If no one looks their part, how can they possibly be recognized as those characters?

It making sense is why you would make that connection. If shown a picture for the new Batman movie with the guy in the suit, even if you don't know Ben Affleck by sight, people are still going to know it's Bruce Wayne. He's a rich guy so of course that's how he dresses when not in the costume.

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

Your personal doubts on their business model is besides the point.. the key thing is that they hope the movie does well because of the premise that it will do good for their business.

I've said repeatedly that the viewer will recognize that they're watching a Death Note movie despite the characters looking noticeably different. Don't pretend you wouldn't recognize it if you watched the movie untitled.

No they won't know that.. they'll be shown a candid set photo of an unknown movie featuring some dude dressed in business attire. Without any other context, how the hell is someone gonna go "That is definitely Bruce Wayne in a Batman movie"

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

Except, once more, the only way that it "will do good for their business" is if it brings in more subscribers than they already had. Does anyone really see that happening?

And as I've said repeatedly, no they won't, not visually. After a half hour or so of seeing the plot unfold and hearing some character names spoken, yeah maybe it can be pieced together. But on sight, no it is not recognizable.

How would that ever be the case? What studio would ever just release a picture without saying what it's for?

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

Obviously there are people who see the potential, otherwise they wouldn't invest $30 million into producing it. Your personal doubts on their business model is besides the point.

But the point is you'll recognize it's a Death Note movie despite racial changes (trust me it wouldn't take you half an hour). So what's the problem with race again?

You think the studio released that set photo of the L conference?

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

No you won't recognize it, not by sight. What about that is so hard to comprehend? Something coming from a visual medium should be identifiable by visuals.

Whoever did wouldn't just put it out there with nothing said, would they?

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

I have no idea why you still believe that changing race is enough to throw you off that you're watching a Death Note movie. Pretty sure you're in the minority there man..

So we've now established that these type of photos aren't released by the studio as you previously suggested correct? Just a reminder that you were comparing studio released promos to out-of-context set photos taken by random citizens and then insisting that one is more confusing than the other.. Well no *beep* Sherlock.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

I have no idea why you can't grasp this simple concept. How would I recognize the characters if the actors looks nothing like them?

The random citizen is still going to say "Hey check out this shot of (insert movie here)" when they post the picture.

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

I am face palming so hard right now. I can't count how many times I had to explain the fact that we're talking about recognizing the movie as an entire property. It's an argument that you started so I don't know why you're so confused. Can we please get back on track?

No the random citizen doesn't always know. Sometimes they say "Hey check out this shot of people filming a movie by my area. I wonder what movie it's for?". In either case, it doesnt excuse the fact that you were comparing deliberately marketed photos to out-of-context shots taken from random people. Not a good way to prove a point.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

Yes, and taking away the things that defined the property makes it unrecognizable. For a comic book, one of those chief things is the visuals.

Makes no real difference. Official or not, it still gets the "Who the hell is that supposed to be?" response.

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

And as I explained several times, no it doesn't, by the very fact that you will likely realize you're watching a Death Note movie within mere minutes into it. You can come up with a dozen excuses and it will not change the fact that you will still recognize that it's Death Note. This disproves your original argument.

Yes it does make a difference whether it's official. Especially in cases where the movie isn't identified. For an unknown movie, a film set photo of a man in a business suit can be any man in a business suit. Whereas if it were a released promo pic, the studio would make it a point to let you know who it is. You should understand that film set photos can easily be taken out of context.

[–] Razor187 8 years ago

And as I've explained several times, no you won't. Recognizing something means taking just one look at it and knowing what it is. For something coming from comics (you know, a VISUAL medium), you should be able to do this right away. If you can't, then it's unrecognizable.

No it doesn't make a difference. If it were the studio releasing it and saying what movie it's for, again, people still have no idea who that's supposed to be since the basic fact remains that he looks absolutely nothing like the character.

And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

No you won't recognize that you're watching a Death Note movie? Do you realize that you are actually arguing against that notion?

You don't know that-- what if he's shown squatting on a chair, or eating sweets, or holding a phone with 2 fingers? Will you seriously not make a connection at that point?

[–] JohnBonDon 8 years ago

Do you seriously believe that a regular looking high school student has comparable emblematic power to that of Batman? You're actually proving my point that character physical features matter more in some stories than others.

Yeah and those characters whose "physical features matter more", in your opinion, are the white ones. Nonwhite ones don't matter unless it's some token nonwhite character that people like you will throw around in a conversation like this to make believe you don't hold racist beliefs (e.g. John Shaft, Black Panther).

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

Do you seriously believe that a regular looking high school student has comparable emblematic power to that of Batman?

Also, how is John Shaft a token black role when he is the lead and titular character? Same goes for Mulan. You are not seeing things clearly. Take off your SJW goggles.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] JohnBonDon 8 years ago

Do you seriously believe that a regular looking high school student has comparable emblematic power to that of Batman?

An Asian kid who dyes his hair red is a "regular looking high school student"? Plus what's emblematic about Batman is his costume.

Also, how is John Shaft a token black role when he is the lead and titular character?

Try to work on your reading comprehension because it makes you look bad.

I didn't say Shaft is a token black role. I said:

unless it's some token nonwhite character that people like you will throw around in a conversation like this to make believe you don't hold racist beliefs

In other words, he becomes a token in the context of people like you throwing him around in a debate to try to cover up racism when in reality you don't give a damn about characters like that.

I have no idea why you brought up Mulan since I didn't talk about Mulan.

You are not seeing things clearly. Take off your SJW goggles.

You should try to put on SJW goggles to help you fight your white supremacist disease. It'll help you be a better person.

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

First of all, Light's hair is light brown.. so it seems like your goggles are still on. Second, it's a colour that millions of Asians around the world dye their hair to.. so it's appalling that you think it's an extraordinary trait.

The point is Batman's appearance as a whole is one of the most iconic of all time. His appearance alone is indisputably the no.1 appeal of comics, therefore, it explains why many devoted fans are sensitive about minor/major physical changes. On the other hand, you can't seriously say that Death Note's main selling point hinges on how particular its main character looks. Although you seem to have strange rationales so maybe you do believe that.

Here is your complete quote including the bits you omitted..

Nonwhite ones don't matter unless it's some token nonwhite character that people like you will throw around in a conversation like this to make believe you don't hold racist beliefs (e.g. John Shaft, Black Panther).

Anyone reading that sentence will figure that you're using those examples (e.g. John Shaft) as token nonwhite characters. Also, I didn't say you brought up Mulan in our conversation (even though you were debating the character in this very thread), I was obviously using her to supplement the John Shaft example of a nontoken, nonwhite character in which "people like me" do care about preserving the race. So either you're forgetting your own arguments or you just suck at formulating sentences.

[–] JohnBonDon 8 years ago

First of all, Light's hair is light brown.. so it seems like your goggles are still on.

You need to be consistent about what these supposed goggles you claim do. 

Second, his hair looks at times pretty close to the color of a redhead.

Even in the Japanese live action movie it looks more red than brown at times:

http://tinyurl.com/hwaw8s8

But whatever, the specific color was not my point.

Second, it's a colour that millions of Asians around the world dye their hair to.. so it's appalling that you think it's an extraordinary trait.

Well, at least you're better than the average whitewashing apologist who wants to stupidly argue that the characters in anime are white because they have hair colors that isn't black. Anyway, I was talking about in an American context. Light Yagami in an American context would stand out a bit more if he dyed his hair since that's not really something Asian Americans do as much as their Asian national counterparts.

The point is Batman's appearance as a whole is one of the most iconic of all time. His appearance alone is indisputably the no.1 appeal of comics, therefore, it explains why many devoted fans are sensitive about minor/major physical changes.

Again, you're talking about the Batman costume not Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne has always been represented in comics and in animation with dark hair yet very few of his live action portrayals have had actors who have that physical trait. So no, this is not a good argument from you at all.

On the other hand, you can't seriously say that Death Note's main selling point hinges on how particular its main character looks. Although you seem to have strange rationales so maybe you do believe that.

Straw man. I never said anything about selling points. You are arguing that Light being Asian isn't important to defend racist casting. Your thinly veiled argument is the kind of nonsense used by white supremacists in Hollywood to keep nonwhite American actors from great roles and reduce them to minor roles and stereotypes.

Although it is kind of funny that you are arguing this yet there is so much backlash from white supremacists because L was cast as black in this. So apparently, there are many who do feel that the characters' looks are important in Death Note yet I don't see you arguing against those that bashed a black L. Funny that.

Anyone reading that sentence will figure that you're using those examples (e.g. John Shaft) as token nonwhite characters.

No, you simply misread it. And it says a lot that you want to argue that instead of what I actually meant by it because you know what I wrote is true.

Also, I didn't say you brought up Mulan in our conversation (even though you were debating the character in this very thread)

Yeah. 2 months ago with a completely different person. 

So either you're forgetting your own arguments or you just suck at formulating sentences.

It's actually the third option: You're grasping at straws.

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

You need to be consistent about what these supposed goggles you claim do.

Sure-- you are looking through the filter of a social justice warrior that obscures and manipulates your perception of the world. Case in point, you somehow convinced yourself that Light's hair was red because you were desperate to make a point for your weak argument.

Second, his hair looks at times pretty close to the color of a redhead.

His hair is clearly light brown in the manga. The sooner you admit that the better.

Even in the Japanese live action movie it looks more red than brown at times

Do you realize you just relied on a film adaptation as canon?

But whatever, the specific color was not my point.

The specific colour was your main argument to prove your point.. in which you were trying to suggest that Light doesn't look like a regular high school student. Own up to your faults man.

Anyway, I was talking about in an American context. Light Yagami in an American context would stand out a bit more if he dyed his hair since that's not really something Asian Americans do as much as their Asian national counterparts.

Tons of Asian-Americans dye their hair that way, also it's a conservative colour, so it would hardly stand out. Your argument is still utterly ridiculous because you believe light brown hair is an iconic look.

Again, you're talking about the Batman costume not Bruce Wayne.

You missed the part where I clearly said his appearance "as a whole". You do realize that his mask reveals half of Bruce Wayne's face right? His exposed chiseled jaw and skin colour is integrated to his overall iconic appearance, which again, is the main appeal of the franchise. You can't say the same about Light.

Straw man. I never said anything about selling points. You are arguing that Light being Asian isn't important to defend racist casting.

Sigh... it's clear you believed it considering that you repeatedly insist that Light's race is crucial in Death Note. It's not a straw man if I'm directly addressing your stance. Speaking of thinly veiled arguments.. you have yet to adequately prove why it's crucial for Light to be Asian in Death Note's story.

yet I don't see you arguing against those that bashed a black L.

That's because I'm busy arguing with people like you who are more butthurt about the lead's race and shouting white supremacy. For instance, when someone brings up black L you shrug it off by saying "Well, it's just a token role to cover their asses". So yeah, it's actually you who's being selective.

Yeah. 2 months ago with a completely different person.

Which I was also involved in the conversation.. and also it was relevant for my point here so I don't get your issue with it.

No, you simply misread it.

Dude, why are you still back peddling? You literally cited those examples immediately after you made that statement, so the reference is clear to anyone. Just admit that you incorrectly insisted that John Shaft is a token black character. It's okay to make a mistake once in a while.

[–] JohnBonDon 8 years ago

Sure-- you are looking through the filter of a social justice warrior that obscures and manipulates your perception of the world.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that you, the same person that thinks that a warrior that fights for social justice is a bad thing, is also the same person that is defending racism.

His hair is clearly light brown in the manga.

No, that isn't clear. His hair at times looks very much like redhair. Like:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/super-villain/images/4/4a/Death-Note-death-note-30926727-2514-2148.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140723003955

The sooner you admit that the better.

The sooner you realize that this whole argument on his hair color reflects quite badly on you because it's nothing more than a straw you are desperately grasping on the better. 

Do you realize you just relied on a film adaptation as canon?

Straw man. I never said it was canon or not. However, it is it's own canon so that's a stupid comment. But this is just you grasping for straws since you know you lost this conversation.

The specific colour was your main argument to prove your point

No, it wasn't. Him dying his hair is the point. As I said, I am talking about an American context. Asian Americans are not known for dying their hair like their Asian national counterparts do.

Tons of Asian-Americans dye their hair that way

No, they don't. In fact, many Asian Americans even point out that Asian nationals look different from Asian Americans to the point where Asian Americans can tell just by looking at how they put themselves together if they are American or not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TorGhRhdMe0

You would know this if you actually knew anything outside of your bigoted bubble.

You missed the part where I clearly said his appearance "as a whole".

No, I didn't because you only wrote that after I blew your nonsensical argument apart.  And it's still debunked because as I have said his live action counterparts rarely ever have Wayne's dark hair despite the fact that practically ever comic book appearance of Wayne shows him with dark hair. Even practically ever animation has his hair that way. So it's not "as a whole". It's his costume not what Bruce Wayne actually looks like that is the point of Batman.

His exposed chiseled jaw and skin colour is integrated to his overall iconic appearance, which again, is the main appeal of the franchise.

Oh, really? Is that why Michael Keaton, despite not having a "chiseled jaw":

http://static.cinemagia.ro/img/db/actor/00/21/89/michael-keaton-629933l.jpg

or looking anything like how Bruce Wayne has ever been represented in the comic books still ended up being the favorite person to play Batman for many fans? 

Sigh... it's clear you believed it considering that you repeatedly insist that Light's race is crucial in Death Note.

You're deviating from the point which is Hollywood's continual racism against nonwhite Americans. You trying to make this about how important to the plot him being Asian is is nothing more than a cheap trick because it's just you using your own arbitrary standards as I just proved.

That's because I'm busy arguing with people like you who are more butthurt about the lead's race and shouting white supremacy.



So I am to assume that these back and forths are so taxing on you that you come away with every post that you make here with such a loss of energy that you can't go to one of the many posts arguing why L is black and tell them the same thing? Hilarious.

Mind you, you were gone for more than 2 months so you could very well have come back and respond to them.

Which I was also involved in the conversation.. and also it was relevant for my point here so I don't get your issue with it.

You involved yourself after it was over. About 2 months later in fact.

Dude, why are you still back peddling?

I meant exactly what it is I said I meant which is how I wrote it. You misread it and your misinterpretation doesn't even make any sense so it's funny how you keep trying to push it. But that's to be expected looking at your posts.

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

It shouldn't surprise anyone that you, the same person that thinks that a warrior that fights for social justice is a bad thing, is also the same person that is defending racism

There's caring about social issues and then there's being a hypersensitive, self righteous wacko who militantly bitches about everything pertaining to political correctness to unreasonable ends. The latter is a social justice warrior.. which you're apparently proud to be.

No, that isn't clear. His hair at times looks very much like redhair. Like:

You're too much... That's a stylized fan art of the anime adaptation which is not canon in the first place since it's not the source material. Even then, if you actually watch the anime, you can clearly see his hair is light brown under normal circumstances. (You may also refer to basically every photo on google images.) By the way, even though you cherry-picked that fanmade sketch in the sea of brown hair images, here's the actual promo pic which it's based off.. and his hair is.. surprise! Brown! Nice attempt there buddy.. All of your citations are so bad that's it's funny.

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2015-07/30/14/campaign_images/webdr11/the-cake-is-not-a-lie-2-17288-1438282458-3_dblbig.jpg

The sooner you realize that this whole argument on his hair color reflects quite badly on you because it's nothing more than a straw you are desperately grasping on the better.

Gotta be joking.. You can't seriously believe you can get away with convincing anyone that Light's hair is red. You basically started the whole argument on his hair and was proven wrong.. and now you are backpeddling by saying it doesn't matter and calling me desperate? Wake up buddy.

Straw man. I never said it was canon or not. However, it is it's own canon so that's a stupid comment. But this is just you grasping for straws since you know you lost this conversation.

I don't think you understand what straw man is.. and apparently you don't know what canon is either. By your logic, I can say Light is white and then link a photo of Nat Wolff because Death Note 2017 is "it's own canon". Your arguments are so flawed that it feels redundant to point them out....

No, it wasn't. Him dying his hair is the point. As I said, I am talking about an American context. Asian Americans are not known for dying their hair like their Asian national counterparts do.

Uh... why are you even talking about American context when you're describing Light in the original manga? Remember that you were trying to deny the fact that the original Light looks like regular high school student because he has "red" hair. After I proved that wrong (wasn't hard), you're now trying to change your argument. Unfortunately for you it didn't go unnoticed.

No, I didn't because you only wrote that after I blew your nonsensical argument apart.

Nope I wrote that because it was obvious you didn't understand that facial features contribute to Batman's overall appearance.. and that still seems to be the case.

And it's still debunked because as I have said his live action counterparts rarely ever have Wayne's dark hair despite the fact that practically ever comic book appearance of Wayne shows him with dark hair.

And how exactly does his hair contribute to the Batman appearance in question? Right... whatever you say there mythbusters.

Oh, really? Is that why Michael Keaton, despite not having a "chiseled jaw":

...Do you even know what a chiseled jaw is?.. Because he has one. Dude.. is there something wrong with your eyesight?

You're deviating from the point which is Hollywood's continual racism against nonwhite Americans. You trying to make this about how important to the plot him being Asian is is nothing more than a cheap trick because it's just you using your own arbitrary standards as I just proved.

You are so lost.. The whole point of this thread (which I created by the way) is that an Asian lead is not necessary for a Death Note movie.. to which you've been conveniently dancing around the whole time. So it's clearly you who's deviating from the subject at hand. Try to stay on topic.

So I am to assume that these back and forths are so taxing on you that you come away with every post that you make here with such a loss of energy that you can't go to one of the many posts arguing why L is black and tell them the same thing? Hilarious.

It's called having a life.. you on the other hand seem to live in an imaginary battlefield world you've created for yourself in this message board. In reality you're just a laughing stock around here. Looks like it ain't easy being a social justice warrior..

[–] JohnBonDon 8 years ago

There's caring about social issues and then there's being a hypersensitive, self righteous wacko who militantly bitches about everything pertaining to political correctness to unreasonable ends

The fact that equality for nonwhites is what you consider to be "hypersensitive" and "unreasonable ends" proves that you are a white supremacist.

You're too much... That's a stylized fan art of the anime adaptation

That's not fan art. That's from the anime.

And the one that's being "too much" is you. You're making a far bigger deal out of his hair color than you should be making. This is because you know you lost the argument and have to harp on something like this since you have little else to hold on to in this. The point was him being an Asian American that dyes his hair. You're wrong which is why you keep making this one thing into a much bigger deal than it is.

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2015-07/30/14/campaign_images/webdr11/the-cake-is-not-a-lie-2-17288-1438282458-3_dblbig.jpg

Umm... that looks like redhead hair.  Here is what an actual redhead looks like: http://howtobearedhead.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/game_of_thrones_redhead_-759x500.jpg

Thanks for helping me prove my point. 

I don't think you understand what straw man is.. and apparently you don't know what canon is either. By your logic, I can say Light is white and then link a photo of Nat Wolff because Death Note 2017 is "it's own canon".

But it is its own canon. 

And yes, what you wrote was a straw man because my argument wasn't based on if the live action movie was canon to the manga. That's nonsense since it is an adaptation so it naturally becomes it's own canon. I used the Japanese live action movie to make my point because they had the Japanese actor also dye his hair like Light does in the manga. It's not that hard to understand unless it's someone that is trying to distract from the other points because you know you lost.

Uh... why are you even talking about American context when you're describing Light in the original manga?

So you forget that we are arguing that Light Yagami should've been an Asian American in this Hollywood adaptation. 

Nope I wrote that because it was obvious you didn't understand that facial features contribute to Batman's overall appearance.. and that still seems to be the case.

Sorry but no one is going to fall for your bad lies. You only wrote that after I blew your nonsensical argument apart. You have shown over and over again how dishonest you are and you are quite shameless in your lies.

...Do you even know what a chiseled jaw is?.. Because he has one.

You don't know because Keaton does not have one. I just put up a photo that proves it but you think you can still lie about it?  Now I know I am talking to an idiot.

As a matter of fact, I went ahead a did a search for "Michael Keaton" and "chiseled jaw" and got about 30 results in the entirety of the internet. 

One of the few that I got had this:

Far from the gee-whiz breeziness and the chiseled jaw of Reeve, Keaton’s comic sensibilities make him a gleeful maniac in some of Batman’s best scenes

Source: http://consequenceofsound.net/2016/03/batman-v-superman-through-the-ages/3/



You are so lost.. The whole point of this thread (which I created by the way) is that an Asian lead is not necessary for a Death Note movie..

First of all, I don't know why you think I don't know that you created this thread.

Second, you're repeating yourself. So I'll just repeat myself:

You're deviating from the point which is Hollywood's continual racism against nonwhite Americans. You trying to make this about how important to the plot him being Asian is is nothing more than a cheap trick because it's just you using your own arbitrary standards as I just proved.

It's called having a life

If you want to repeat yourself I'll repeat myself:

So I am to assume that these back and forths are so taxing on you that you come away with every post that you make here with such a loss of energy that you can't go to one of the many posts arguing why L is black and tell them the same thing? Hilarious.

And I'll just underline that the reason you aren't calling those people out is because you are a white supremacist.

In reality you're just a laughing stock around here.

Sure, buddy. That's why you are spending so much time arguing with me, right? 

No one is falling for your lies. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Looks like it ain't easy being a social justice warrior

It looks hard in the eyes of a white supremacist since a white supremacist is not about truth or justice.

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

The fact that equality for nonwhites is what you consider to be "hypersensitive" and "unreasonable ends" proves that you are a white supremacist.

Um no.. Hypersensitive is what I consider to be hypersensitive. Don't get it twisted. By the way, you do realize that you're not doing yourself any favours by yelling white supremacist at everyone on this board? You sound like a raging lunatic..

That's not fan art. That's from the anime.

Uh huh... because the anime is drawn by "NekoNoasya". SJW goggles are still on I see.

And the one that's being "too much" is you. You're making a far bigger deal out of his hair color than you should be making. This is because you know you lost the argument and have to harp on something like this since you have little else to hold on to in this. The point was him being an Asian American that dyes his hair. You're wrong which is why you keep making this one thing into a much bigger deal than it is.

Not making a big deal, just pointing out your obviously wrong observation.. which you crucially relied on to support your counter-argument that Light's original hair appearance is somehow extraordinary like Batman. You're dragging this out by defending what's clearly a mistake on your part. Either accept this or come up with a better counter argument because your current one makes no sense.

Umm... that looks like redhead hair

Light's hair is brown.. It's petty that you're denying this. You must've ignored practically every photo of him on google images. Redheads aren't colored this way in anime.. Look at this poll. The vast majority does not agree with you. Just give it up man..

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/anime-manga-comics/light-yagami-s-hair-color/t.41835699_1/

But it is its own canon.

That's a stupid sentence. Canon is the official version intended by the original creator.

I used the Japanese live action movie to make my point because they had the Japanese actor also dye his hair like Light does in the manga.

You're not making any sense. That's about as valid as if you used the American live action movie to make a point that Light is actually white because he was played by a white actor..

So you forget that we are arguing that Light Yagami should've been an Asian American in this Hollywood adaptation.

Wrong. We were arguing about the uniqueness (or lack thereof) of Light's original appearance, hence your silly "red hair" claim. Keep up with the discussion.

Sorry but no one is going to fall for your bad lies. You only wrote that after I blew your nonsensical argument apart. You have shown over and over again how dishonest you are and you are quite shameless in your lies.

You are very forgetful. I was comparing appearances of Light and Batman.. and not once did I mention how he looks without his costume. It was you who brought up Bruce Wayne and acted as if that was my argument. Talk about straw man...

You don't know because Keaton does not have one. I just put up a photo that proves it but you think you can still lie about it? Now I know I am talking to an idiot.

Maybe try looking without the SJW goggles this time? Also, the fact that you did that hilarious keyword search sort of shows how clueless you are. It would've made much more sense to mention Val Kilmer considering he seems to have the most feminine face structure. This list ranks Michael Keaton second in best chin.. Anyway that was a nice addition to your pile of abysmal examples.

http://theweek.com/articles/460771/7-best-batmans-ranked-by-chins

First of all, I don't know why you think I don't know that you created this thread.

Because you have demonstratively forgotten the very point of this thread?

You're deviating from the point which is Hollywood's continual racism against nonwhite Americans. You trying to make this about how important to the plot him being Asian is is nothing more than a cheap trick because it's just you using your own arbitrary standards as I just proved.

Again.. the whole point of this thread (as per the original post) is that race isn't necessary for the story. And once again, you are the one deviating by going off topic and inserting crappy examples.

Sure, buddy. That's why you are spending so much time arguing with me, right?

That's exactly why. Your arguments are hilarious.

It looks hard in the eyes of a white supremacist since a white supremacist is not about truth or justice.

That's cute. Keep fighting the good fight soldier. You might even get knighted one day..

[–] ThatsFairZack 8 years ago

Take off your SJW goggles.

I agree, these SJW's man. They need to take off those goggles.

Signature: Thread the SJW's keep having deleted http://imgur.com/a/hGO8P

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] xc5 8 years ago

White-washing is only a problem for me when its in historical or "based on true events " movies. If it's fiction, it doesn't matter.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (62046923) 8 years ago

I dont think Nat Wolf is white. Not fully anyways.

[–] Phoenix_07 8 years ago

If y'all can accept the fact that Hollywood plans to cater to a western audience, then it shouldn't be a surprise that they're gonna wanna cast a white actor for leading role of Death Note. "Uh since when is America just white people? Theres a thing called Asian-American population so theres simply no excuse!" Okay sure, but then you would have to use that same argument and then proceed to take issue with each and every Hollywood movie where there is a white main character... Good luck with that. Lack of diversity in main casting has plagued Hollywood since its conception, why would you expect it to suddenly change now?

So you're saying because Hollywood has always been that way, we should just keep quiet and let it be? No thanks. We will continue to voice our opinions as long as Hollywood keeps doing that. We are, after all, the consumers. Take a look at the live action Mulan. People were outraged that Hollywood planned to change the story to include White people, so they actually listened and decided to not do that. Progress can happen if enough people are loud enough.

[–] garciaruben223 8 years ago

Take a look at the live action Mulan. People were outraged that Hollywood planned to change the story to include White people, so they actually listened and decided to not do that. Progress can happen if enough people are loud enough.

I agree progress can still happen, but it has to be done the RIGHT WAY.

For example: Spider-man Homecoming
You can't just change the race of MJ because of "diversity" because like I said, it has to be done the RIGHT way. MJ has always been a white female with red hair. There's no doubt that most of the people here complaining about the race change are the same people that call everyone else RACISTS because they disagree with a black actress, Zendaya, to play Mary Jane.

Both Mulan (the Disney version, not the true story) and Spider-man are fictional stories. Those stories though, have a certain appearance to their protagonists and other characters. You can't just cast a white, black or hispanic actress to play Mulan, that wouldn't look right.

Just look at Matt Damon's character in his upcoming movie, The Great Wall. He's a white actor in a purely Asian movie. The director behind it has already stated that Matt Damon's character is supposed to be white. It's not whitewashing if the actor or actress are cast for a specific reason.

[–] JohnBonDon 8 years ago

Just look at Matt Damon's character in his upcoming movie, The Great Wall. He's a white actor in a purely Asian movie. The director behind it has already stated that Matt Damon's character is supposed to be white. It's not whitewashing if the actor or actress are cast for a specific reason.

You are wrong. It is not a "purely Asian movie". It is an American movie that got some Chinese backing because they ended up hiring Zhang Yimou to direct it. The writers of the movie are American which is why the white character is the main character.

The criticism had nothing to do with whitewashing. That was the media that took it and spun it into that since the last time something involving Asians was brought up it was due to whitewashing. The issue with The Great Wall had to do with pushing the white savior cliche yet again. Which by the way, was the same complaint aimed at the upcoming Mulan. It was not that Mulan was being whitewashed it was that the original script had a white savior.

So you don't even know what it is you are saying.

It says plenty that you complain about white characters being changed to nonwhite, despite the fact that there is no proof Mary Jane is being changed to nonwhite, but find every excuse you can pull out of your ass to defend whitewashing. This proves you are a white supremacist because it is the thought that white character are precious and must always remain white but nonwhite characters are expendable and they don't need to be white.

That and the fact that you were caught making blatantly racist comments and like the degenerate bigot you are, doubled down on them: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1241317/board/thread/262403664?d=262417240#262417240

[–] karge_of_heavens2004 8 years ago

The whole Mulan thing is apples and oranges. Mulan is an extremely Asian themed story, Death Note is not.

The core themes of Death Note are universal, it's pedantic to demand it be restricted to one race.

[–] curly_tavo 8 years ago

To be honest, I just wanna see a good adaptation to Death Note, being a fan of the anime. Plus I don't mind the actor choices/change setting, I just want the story to be as it is.

Sigh, remember back when seeing movies was just for the enjoyment and not about complaints like this?

Remember J-Horror American Remakes and how everyone was a-okay with those when the location was changed from Japan to America (except for the Grudge)?

[–] 8 years ago

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