MovieChat Forums > Red Dawn (2012) Discussion > Where are our allies?

Where are our allies?


The one thing that also make this film look so terrible is the fact there is no mention whatsoever of our allies. Are they taking a nap or something like that?

-first the film totally ignores the ROK and Japan, which the DPRK would have to jump over first before even thinking of going overseas.

-second, Europe and our NATO allies seemingly do nothing to stop the Russians, who somehow managed to cross the Atlantic unscathed and take the Eastern coast.

another thing i would like to ask is why would Russia want to fully ally themselves with the DPRK, which would damage their standing in the international community? Russia, like the US and China, is loosing its patience with the DPRK, which was exhibited with them agreeing to the UN sanctions on the DPRK.

reply

There is a bunch of news reports at the very beginning of the movie that explains some of your questions. One thing said was that NATO was having some serious issues financially and otherwise - they were basically falling apart. Russia had been taken over by extremist group that was causing friction with other countries.

I forgive it for not mentioning more because this movie is about a bunch of kids that are in part of the country that is taken over. The only news they are getting are what the North Koreans are giving them - which is BS news. They only learn what part of the country has been invaded and which parts are still considered the good ol' USA when they meet the surviving Marines. They have next to no access to information especially on a global level.

reply

The whole idea of NATO not helping because of some issues with money is ridiculous. If the US were invaded, then every financial market in the world would be affected and i don't think our NATO allies would like the idea of the US being attacked.

Hell, Europe decided to go to war in 1939, during the Great Depression, a financial crisis worst than the one we're facing today. so the idea that they didn't do anything because of few issues with finances is in my opinion illogical. an alliance as strong as NATO wouldn't fall apart so easily.

also i don't think an extremist run Russia would ally itself with the DPRK. the far right groups in Russia tend to promote anti-immigration, Russian Orthodox Christianity, and Russian nationalism. i see no benefits/reason for them to ally themselves with the far left DPRK. and how was Russia causing problems for other countries? all i remember seeing was Russia having problems with Georgia again, which isn't that damaging to the US.

reply

the "news reports" didn't exactly go in a lot of detail and what they did cover went by fairly fast. That is just what I remember seeing.

As far as 1939 and going to war then - As I recall there wasn't much choice in the matter when there was a Mad and Crazy man bent on conquering Europe and instilling his particular ideology. They either had to suck it up and go to war or be over-run while watching huge portions of their populations be shipped off to "work camps." It also took the USA a few years before they joined in on this war - and only after provoked.

I am not going to argue about how logical or illogical the situation is - partly because you are right it is somewhat illogical. I was just trying to answer some of your questions by refering to the very beginning of the movie - which was there to set the tone and to explain some of what was going on and why.

It is a movie - one that requires a certain suspension of beleif to go along with. It is also a remake of a 1984 film of the same name.

reply

here's a reason why they didn't go in a lot of detail: Bad Writers

Europe wouldn't have a choice if the US was invaded by Russia/DPRK. Similar to how Britain and France were obligated to defend Poland, our NATO allies are obligated to defend us.

i thank you for answering my questions by the way

I acknowledge that films need some suspension of disbelief in order to enjoy it. there is no question behind that. however, the suspension of disbelief needed for this film is staggering and beyond any comprehension.

reply

LOL. That is probably the reason. I actually enjoyed the movie - probably one of the very few. But I thought it was decent remake of the original. However, the main reason I enjoyed it was because I was not in the mood for thinking. I had had a very long day and just mindlessly watched it. basically I had made the decision to turn brain off before watching it. ;)

reply

Europe decided to sit this one out, i guess they figured twice in one century was enough. Well all except England, but they wont last long.

reply

wait, Europe had two giant wars this century? the century just began. your statement can't really be applied to this situation.

reply

Looks like he said twice in one century, not necessarily this century.

reply

He was quoting the first movie when Powers Booth's Major Tanner find the kids and they asked him about the war effort and where were our allies thats what he said

"Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing."Âť

reply

i know. i was kind of joking. the way the previous poster quoted that line made it seem that he was trying to apply that line to the 2012 version of the film, which can't really apply to it since the 21st century just began.

reply

well in all fairness if you take it in meaning 100 years then the 2012 version would still have two wars in the last century.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing.

reply

I was just thinking about this, mindlessly watching movies. It's fun to turn your brain off for an hour and a half. Although I was thinking of the movie Eagle Eye. Anyway, I haven't seen the remake but was just watching part of the original. From looking at the synopsis, I think... why? Why North Korea? Why not the Russians and Cubans again? I know the Soviet Union collapsed, but it's an alternate reality! Just make it where the Soviet Union didn't collapse, or have them rise again ("You thought we were gone, we're not" type thing). Heck, I'm a 16 and I know about the Soviet Union. If the writers were worrying about people not remembering or knowing about it... I just seriously hope that wasn't the case. Oops, I was just using my brain. :)

reply

Uhm, no.

First and foremost, if NATO was having issues financially, they wouldn't be sending the UN over. Guess who's in the UN? Our allies
Secondly, Poland is a little easier for GB and FRA to help defend geographically.... Now you want them to fight against a North Korea/Russian union who obviously can fund such an invasion?
Thirdly, I like how you say it's an "obligation" to defend us. Which government is going to insure they did? Certainly not ours.

Anyways, this movie was definitely plausible. The only thing that killed it for me was that Josh Peck kid, other than that it had potential

reply

This movie is totally not plausible at all.

First of all, I never mentioned anything about the UN. Second, do you know how an alliance works? When one party signs an alliance with another party, both parties have accepted obligation to defend one another. Third, I see no reason for Europe to abandon the US so easily. Like I said before, Britain and France were willing to fight a second world war during the worst economic depression the world had ever seen (one that was worst than the one today). Also, if America was invaded, imagine how that would affect the worldwide markets. Every major country in the world would suffer from the aftershock.

Russia and the DPRK don't have the naval capacity to mount a trans-oceanic invasion. the US has the largest navy in the world and one of the largest armies and air force. so that means an overseas invader would have to have the means to reach the Americas, beat the US Navy and air force, evade all intelligence and radar, deal with the armed forces on land, and secure supply lines and communication. The US and the British had enough difficulty with D-Day, which is child's play compared to this scenario.

i question the lack of NATO because they mention how Russia took the whole Eastern Seaboard. If the Russia had the naval capacity to do so, that would mean they would need to get past Europe. Since they managed to reach the East Coast, we can assume that they aren't being bogged down with fighting in Europe. the fact that they didn't even mention the ROK or Japan is totally bs. if a massive invasion was coming from the DPRK, you can be assured the US would be warned about it.

The world also wouldn't tolerate such an action. The major world powers are already voicing total opposition to the DPRK's behavior and other major conflicts. These issues are nowhere as severe as an invasion of the US.

This movie in my opinion is racist and is basically just a modern version of the Yellow Peril.

reply

Any force capable of invading USA is capable of repelling any attack any or all NATO members can scramble.

This story is about a bunch of kids that get into this situation, form a guerilla type wargroup and somehow end up saving the USA. As all Europe knew the USA only needed some kids to take care of grown-up stuff :)

If you want to see a movie about geopolitical consequences of actions I suggest you go for Tom Clancy adaptations.

reply

An attack on a NATO member is an attack on members all members as outlined in the NATO treaty

reply

Russia is already allied to the DPRK

reply

The movie purportedly originally had a deeper historical background.

America's allies weren't present because the enemy coalition had not forgotten them. America's allies were pre-occupied fighting for their own existence. What made it easier is that by 2012, and this is for real, most European nations have very small armed forces. It's based on several reasons, immense costs, pacifist sentiment, non-interventionist sentiment, political fragmentation, all combine and most of America's allies are unable to defend themselves adequately, if at all. Great Britain still has a top-notch army and navy in terms of quality, but the Brits don't a large enough army to defend their home isles besides sending spare troops to help the Americans. As far as America's beleagured and almost overrun Allies see it, America with its 300 plus million population, biggest land size and the most wealth, is in a far better position to defend itself than they are.

reply

We don't know how much time the movie takes, but it's perfectly reasonable to think that it would take some months for allies to get involved. I mean, look at how long it took the USA to get involved in World War 2. This was just the beginning of an imaginary war - there would still be plenty to come.

reply

My info comes from the past three years of discussion on this forum where a number of people claimed to have read the script, or else claimed to know someone associated with the movie's development.

I don't know how much was actually committed to paper. But there was a real-world scenario behind the plausibility. Today's Russian Federation, Red China, Iran, Pakistan, and North Korea all maintain very large armies. Combine all their manpower assets and the result is a mega-army of 3 to 4 million men. One million men can steamroll over Europe's small armies with little difficulty. I'm sure Europe's armies will put up a fight but stand little chance being so grossly outnumbered and underequipped.

North America still presents near insurmountable challenges in transporting several million enemy soldiers across the oceans or through the Arctic, or north through Central America and Mexico. The combined landmass of Canada and the United States and its population are too large, too numerous. The American people will fight and oh yes, the Canadians will fight, too, despite their proclaimed pacifism. Canadian pacifism extends to fighting away from their own territory. Invade Canadian territory and any enemy will learn the hard way how Canadians can fight back, just as the Americans learned in 1814. Remember, the British redcoats and the Canadian local militias repulsed four American invasions and gave the Yanks enough of a bloody nose that they left Canada alone after that for the last two hundred years.

reply

Jeff, I think you should ignore the chatter and focus on facts, as well as focus less on what happened nearly 2 centuries ago and rather on current situations.

We Brits indeed have a small army but a technologically advanced air force, which as you seem to have forgotten, is vital for victory in modern warfare. As do the Germans, and especially the French, all of whom are (still) very wealthy nations, and you need LOTS of money to pay for the latest avionics. Even combined, the nations in your alliance don't have a large enough kind of bank of avionics expertise, (nor enough disposable cash to create one quickly), to guarantee air superiority. If this 'Million-Man-Force' gathered, say, in the RF (Russian Federation), and launched into Poland en-route to Berlin and onwards, it would immediately have to contend with nato counterstrikes. The majority of the fight would occur on Polish soil, and there would be a LOT of missiles in the air, headed east. You'd need a few weeks to get that many men into position. We'd see the build up in the first couple of days, and start mobilising ourselves.

Could they take Berlin? You're troops need to be fanatics for this one. It would be a hell of a battle, ramp it up to your 3-4 million men, it could be done, for a symbolic gesture. But when you've finished...

Your forces are back down well below a million men, undernourished, underequipped, with little to no air cover left by now. They wouldn't get as far as the Fulda Gap before their supply lines and therefore their ranks dissolved through bombing and lack of supplies. The news doesn't get any better...now you've gone and reawoken a giant that had been sleeping since 1945 - Germany. The loss of their treasured main city will provoke fury, and the German army's ranks will swell back to even beyond original strength. By this time the Spanish and Italians are also participating fully - you have about 300,000 airmen of various ranks and W/C European nationalities controlling the skies. Even if the remaining allied armies make it to the Rhine - and I assure you, the would NOT - they will be blown smithereens to by French nukes - and just as the Canucks don't want to be invaded, you can be sure that goes TENFOLD for the French, in whose national psyche the ghost of their defeat from invaders from over the Rhine looms hugely still. Your alliance falls apart, the finger-pointing starts, and peace reigns again, though it's a bloody peace, because nobody wins a war.

Invading Central Europe is not a realistic option.

By the way, I agree completely that the idea of NK troops ever reaching the US west coast is utter tosh.

M

Please note, I do not want comments from housewives, students or the unemployed.

reply

Russia has standing in the international community?

First I've heard...

N.

"You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts"

reply

You make your post as if this is happening right now in our world.

This is clearly a different universe, albeit slightly, like some sort of alternate timeline where things went a different direction. The fact is, we don't know the whole story and background of what's happening with other countries (the newspaper clippings give us a glimpse), so you can't really talk international relations because you don't know what those relationships are.

reply

The film was badly conceived, poorly written, and illogical. North Korea does not have the means to invade North America, and would not do so. But even allowing for that, the USA would not need any allies - the North Koreans could not deploy enough troops to the USA to overcome even the National Guard on its own.

The USA is however lucky to have any allies left. They are doing their best to alienate the entire world.

reply

"The film was badly conceived, poorly written, and illogical. North Korea does not have the means to invade North America,"

The movie was originally filmed with China being the invaders.

The movie was modified due to "distribution issues."

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

Its a hollywood movie. The allies never do anything in hollywood movies.

reply

Even ones based on historical events. U5-71, Private Ryan etc.

reply