This is spoilery to those who haven't see the movie's ending. Otherwise read on.
I don't think Owen ever made it out of the water in the pool. I think that the events with his Vampire Queen happened, then she left because of all the heat. He remembered her promising him she would be there if he couldn't handle the bullies, and during the last few minutes of life he had in him, his dying mind painted a macabre picture of revenge and salvation. It is my thinking that just like "Brazil" the truth and unfairness of the whole situation is beyond his ability to mentally accept. Then instead of watching his body in agonizing death throws and water laden gasps, he sees his beautiful savior. Decapitating his assailant, maiming the ones who did him wrong, and ending the despicable lives of those that deserved it. I know it's a terrible fate and I'm sure it is a theory that has been said before, but the train trip is his journey to the afterlife. Anyway, anyone else think this?
This is spoilery to those who haven't see the movie's ending. Otherwise read on.
I don't think Owen ever made it out of the water in the pool. I think that the events with his Vampire Queen happened, then she left because of all the heat. He remembered her promising him she would be there if he couldn't handle the bullies, and during the last few minutes of life he had in him, his dying mind painted a macabre picture of revenge and salvation. It is my thinking that just like "Brazil" the truth and unfairness of the whole situation is beyond his ability to mentally accept. Then instead of watching his body in agonizing death throws and water laden gasps, he sees his beautiful savior. Decapitating his assailant, maiming the ones who did him wrong, and ending the despicable lives of those that deserved it. I know it's a terrible fate and I'm sure it is a theory that has been said before, but the train trip is his journey to the afterlife. Anyway, anyone else think this?
No offence OP, i don't mean this as an attack against you...before anyone jumps in and claims I'm attacking you and before I get the "here comes the LTROI police again" comment from some people.
But when I read this theory, then all I can think is what the hell did LMI supposedly do that was different? Especially when a theory like this was already suggested at the end of LTROI. That it was all just the dying dreams of Oskar. The fact that this theory is now being discussed here in LMI makes me wonder exactly what the hell was the difference with this movie anyways?
But when I read this theory, then all I can think is what the hell did LMI supposedly do that was different? Especially when a theory like this was already suggested at the end of LTROI. That it was all just the dying dreams of Oskar. The fact that this theory is now being discussed here in LMI makes me wonder exactly what the hell was the difference with this movie that LMI anyways?
Except that is all circular logic -- for all we know the OP feels the ending is the same (or he hasn't watched LTROI.) This much I know -- one person believing the ending of LMI could mean something that other persons believe about LTROI doesn't make them the same movie. In fact, this person's post has absolutely nothing to do with LTROI.
FWIW -- I believe this theory is much more likely in LTROI. The reason being that Oskar does not struggle to get out of the water and does not act like he's desperate to breathe. He's floating in the water until Eli pulls him out.
This doesn't happen in LMI -- but the OP probably isn't aware of that difference, nor does it matter to his question. It has nothing to do with "attacking" the OP -- it simply isn't pertinent to his post.
I know something you don't know ... I am ambidextrous!
Except that is all circular logic -- for all we know the OP feels the ending is the same (or he hasn't watched LTROI.) This much I know -- one person believing the ending of LMI could mean something that other persons believe about LTROI doesn't make them the same movie. In fact, this person's post has absolutely nothing to do with LTROI.
I know this post had nothing to do with LTROI, but my point remains none the less, I don't know if the OP has seen LTROI or not, but going from their IMDB. It looks like they haven't (I may be wrong on that)
But my point remains none the less, if someone comes out with a theory like this at the end of this movie that is pretty similar to a theory that came out of LTROI then what the hell is different being conveyed?
If this were a one off instance then sure, I would say its coincidence. But skimming through this entire board and I always see conversations that aren't dissimilar to the ones that the so called LTROI police discussed after that movie came out.
It really does make me wonder sometimes, if you're having the same conversations then what did this movie really convey that was different?
reply share
But my point remains none the less, if someone comes out with a theory like this at the end of this movie that is pretty similar to a theory that came out of LTROI then what the hell is difference being conveyed?
Well, jidici still thinks Eli is an evil-monkey demon (I'm paraphrasing here) -- so that pretty much rules out the theory in LMI ... wait.
No, just because somebody comes out with the same theory does not make the stories the same. If one person does not see the differences ... so what? I daresay, every movie board on IMDB has somebody guess that the character dies in the end.
Does Shane die at the end? I don't know, but why do we need LTROI if we get the same theory? (Harry Potter dies at the end -- I'm sure of it.)
I know something you don't know ... I am ambidextrous!
No, just because somebody comes out with the same theory does not make the stories the same. If one person does not see the differences ... so what? I daresay, every movie board on IMDB has somebody guess that the character dies in the end.
That's a broad stroke argument...and you know it.
We're not talking about all movies, we're talking about a movie that is BASED on another movie.
Hence there must be some similarity worth mentioning. Your argument is broad-stroke.
reply share
Which is the point. As is the idea that just because people come up with the same theories makes them equivalent. As I said, at some point every movie board seems to have someone come up with the theory that the protagonist is dead (or is dreaming, or Abby and Owen are the same person.)
The point is that those theories are common to nearly every movie -- your argument is broad stroke.
I know something you don't know ... I am ambidextrous!
A little respect here. Evil maybe but monkey demon? How is she to seduce as a monkey? No, the evil Eli is a soul taker because shes beautiful.
reply share
But Eli is a boy in the film, regardless of what anyone wants to believe, and regardless of people's ability to see this from the crotch shot. I missed it the first time, so I'm not judging anyone. There are remains of a scrotum on Eli's crotch, girls don't have a scrotum.
Not that Eli's gender makes much difference to the story in the film, it works whether Eli is a boy, a girl, or nothing.
But Eli is a boy in the film, regardless of what anyone wants to believe, and regardless of people's ability to see this from the crotch shot. I missed it the first time, so I'm not judging anyone. There are remains of a scrotum on Eli's crotch, girls don't have a scrotum.
Not that Eli's gender makes much difference to the story in the film, it works whether Eli is a boy, a girl, or nothing.
I think I know my way around the world and arent delusional and with that in mind am pretty sure, at least Alfredson, would say my thinking is ok to think. I mean it obviously is or they would have made a bigger deal out of it. I doubt Alfredson is in the habit of weeding out the cool people who supposedly "get it" verses the not so cool ones who dont to play with their minds. He made it so different people can think different ways, he's said as much. Also bear in mind that Im not trying to change your mind, Im glad you think the way you think though am open for debate.
reply share
Hmmm. Rereading your comment I guess you meant that you interpret Eli as a girl in the film, not that you were assigning a specific gender to the character. And, of course, that is fair enough.
Re what was different: with this exact post and this exact line of reasoning, there's actually one major difference that lots of people pay too little attention to -- at the end of LTROI, the "bully" who chooses not to get involved lives. None of them do in LMI. Over and above the significant thematic and philosophical tangents that raises, it is a difference in the supposed delusion whilst drowning. Is it enough to discuss the two movies separately? That's for each person to decide.
In any event, this is a remake, but it is an entirely separate movie with entirely separate message boards. If someone wants to discuss LMI on the LMI message board, why should you care if the same topic can be raised on the LTROI message board? It's not like the LTROI message board has first refusal of any topic. Hell, maybe some people come here because they actually prefer LMI. It happens. (I like the two about equally, and there are enough subtle differences between them that I can fairly say I like some narrative aspects in LTROI better than I like them in LMI, and like others better in LMI than in LTROI.)
But when I read this theory, then all I can think is what the hell did LMI supposedly do that was different? Especially when a theory like this was already suggested at the end of LTROI. That it was all just the dying dreams of Oskar. The fact that this theory is now being discussed here in LMI makes me wonder exactly what the hell was the difference with this movie anyways?
You answer that question quite often yourself when you complain about all the things that LMI did different from the first movie.
It's the same story, so naturally people are going to come up with some of the same theories. This particular theory isn't actually in either movie. You're complaining about fan theories.
I don't feel like I am being attacked. So, no worries there. I appreciate any input or discussion on my theory. I didn't realize it wasn't original but am not surprised it isn't. I hate that I caused all this angst between people who discuss this movie regularly. I did watch LTROI years and years ago. I dare say close to when it came out. I pirated it online at the behest of some message board I frequented at the time. It may have been an EQ or WoW site. I can't remember. Anyways, I adored the movie but hadn't watched it since. I know there has to be subtle and blatant differences to the two films. I know the gender ambiguity in the first and little to no mention in the remake is a big one. So, the tone of the films may have been the reason why I came to a different conclusion than I did the first time. It may have just been that I forgot I thought the main character was dead at the end. Before I could post it or discuss it with anyone. So, it's untelling. I am not intentionally copying anyone's theory. I do apologize for spouting it as my own. It was something I came to on my own as far as I know. Even if the concept is something that is common this day and age. For people to imagine the movie's ending as something beyond the straightforward. Ever since Fight Club I have waited for some twist or surprise to the story. Which I highly enjoy and really appreciate when a storytelling can do something like that well. So, I don't know if he's dead at the bottom of a pool or taking his vampire girlfriend around the country to drink her fill. I do like that I don't know, it makes the movie better to me.
The greatest story every told in six words. "For Sale: Baby Shoes, Never Worn." - Ernest Hemingway
So, the tone of the films may have been the reason why I came to a different conclusion than I did the first time. It may have just been that I forgot I thought the main character was dead at the end. Before I could post it or discuss it with anyone. So, it's untelling. I am not intentionally copying anyone's theory. I do apologize for spouting it as my own. It was something I came to on my own as far as I know.
You've encountered some people who are deeply invested in claiming that every possible idea in LMI is "stolen" from LTROI. This demands that any theory a LTROI fan may have posted on any message board on the internet is included in the LTROI movie as well. That way, any interpretation of LTROI can be "claimed" even if it's not actually in the film.
It used to be implied that the director of LMI must have read these various theories on message boards and stole those ideas for LMI. But of course, Reeves saw the LTROI movie long before any LTROI fans did and wrote his script before it was released as well....so he would need a time machine to have used any ideas from LTROI fans.
You did write that interpretation. It doesn't matter if other people came up with it too. More than one person can come to the same conclusion...there is no "dibs" on interpretations of movies.
I don't think that is what happened. We see what actually happened, Abby/Eli returns for him. It isn't the logical choice for her survival but she values the companionship enough to accept the risk (hence the name of the original film and the novel).
I'm not sure what it is, but people seem to want to think Abby/Eli was not real for all of the film or some of it. The author has stated that she is absolutely real, though is happy that people interpret how they sop decide to.
To add more detail as to why I fell you are overthinking the end of the film is the author wrote Oskar (renamed Owen in this film) based on himself when he was young. The pool scene is literally his form of revenge on those who bullied him (as stated in TLROI audio commentary). Hence I can't see why he would write it as the character that he based on himself dying and not getting his revenge, when getting his revenge was his reason for the scene.
Nope ur wrong masticoret9. If u see the original u will understand that this ending rly happens, because the original shows when oskar gets up from the water and walks out of the bathhouse, and she did leave one of the bullies alive thats sitting besides and cries in fear when oskar walks by.
Just to be clear, no matter the original's intent or story, an adaptation does not have to follow the same events or ending. My interpretation, no matter its validity, may be the very thing the filmmaker wanted the audience to take away from the film.
If you have an ambiguous moment where a character could have died. Anything that happens after that neither proves nor disproves his death. Just because he walks out, and she leaves one alive, doesn't mean he survived the bullies. It could just mean that he imagined himself doing that and the bully left alive was someone he had sympathy for. Someone he knew wouldn't be there if he weren't forced.
Don't get me wrong. You are likely correct. The character survives and they both live happily ever after, until Owen/Oskar's eventual death from age or while obtaining blood. I just like to think, just as most people who watch a lot of films do, that a story doesn't have "an" ending. Stories don't live in the author's mind. They exist inside the viewer or reader's mind. They are given up once they leave the author's pen and are published.
They may have had an intended meaning or ending but they most certainly don't have a single interpretation. Just like your old English teacher told you that certain stories had symbolisms and layers of meaning that weren't intended by the author. These movies mean what the audience feels they mean.
The author of "Fahrenheit 451", Ray Bradbury, was debated about the meaning of his book during a college class he was visiting. The student looked at him and said, "You're wrong!" when the author said his book wasn't about censorship. The amazing thing is, the student was right, and the author wrong. Sure, he might have intended the story to be a cut and dried narrative about (and I quote from another source) "the role of the mass media and its effect on the populace, in particular television and how it makes people less able to digest more complex forms of media, like books."
So, the problem is, that what the author intended the story to be, isn't what the reader will get out of it. Certain aspects of the story will gain meaning and resonate in ways that can't be foreseen. Sometimes the political and global events that happen at the same time as the story's release will cause it to have an effect that outrages or outlives the material's expectations. So, please, feel free to consider me incorrect, but don't ever tell someone they are wrong for viewing something in a different way than you did.
The greatest story every told in six words. "For Sale: Baby Shoes, Never Worn." - Ernest Hemingway
They may have had an intended meaning or ending but they most certainly don't have a single interpretation. Just like your old English teacher told you that certain stories had symbolisms and layers of meaning that weren't intended by the author. These movies mean what the audience feels they mean.
The author of "Fahrenheit 451", Ray Bradbury, was debated about the meaning of his book during a college class he was visiting. The student looked at him and said, "You're wrong!" when the author said his book wasn't about censorship. The amazing thing is, the student was right, and the author wrong. Sure, he might have intended the story to be a cut and dried narrative about (and I quote from another source) "the role of the mass media and its effect on the populace, in particular television and how it makes people less able to digest more complex forms of media, like books."
So, the problem is, that what the author intended the story to be, isn't what the reader will get out of it. Certain aspects of the story will gain meaning and resonate in ways that can't be foreseen. Sometimes the political and global events that happen at the same time as the story's release will cause it to have an effect that outrages or outlives the material's expectations. So, please, feel free to consider me incorrect, but don't ever tell someone they are wrong for viewing something in a different way than you did.
Thanks for listening to me, parishedByhisName. I always appreciate the fact that there are some people who can still be civil to one another on the internet.
Thanks Harpo for the compliment. It is a subject I feel slightly impassioned about. I might have said this before but one of my favorite quotes on the topic is from a book called "The Way of Kings" by Brandon Sanderson. A character named Wit explains in his reply to someone asking, "What does it mean?" which had been prompted by an epic adventure Wit had just finished telling, "Ah, but a story teller's job isn't to give you answers but rather to give you questions to think on. Too many seem to have forgotten that." :D
The greatest story every told in six words. "For Sale: Baby Shoes, Never Worn." - Ernest Hemingway
It really taught me a lesson about proof reading though. It was typed out once and never read again. Well, until you pointed out my grievous error. I mean, why would I need to read the signature? I it wrote out from memory, what could go wrong? i meen; mi perfektion is limitles? Ie du ever theng write,
The greatest story ever told in six words. "For Sale: Baby Shoes, Never Worn." - Ernest Hemingway
It's an interesting alternate ending theory but they didn't film it in such fashion. The scene on the train was pretty straight-forward and not otherwordly although they could have left Owen peacefully underwater surrendering to his fate in a dreamy manner admist the carnage, minus the train scene. But I think he became her new protector and I loved the amazing chemistry that Kodi and Chloe shared...it was more innocent and romantic when it could have been borderline sexualized since Owen was first depicted as an aspiring Peeping Tom (even though Kodi was 14 at the time, he was definitely a late bloomer which worked to the character's benefit).
Well, 13.5 when the thing was filmed. Often, you can take a year off the film release date for when things were actually filmed.
Yes, the chemistry was great. If the youngsters were one year older, it would have changed the entire complexion of the underlying devotion from one of childhood to adolescent.
OMG, you can say this for practically anything. Maybe in Die Hard, John MacClane died too and did the same thing where he envisioned himself as a hero who saves the day and all turns out well. Sometimes, most of the time,especially in movies, what you see is what you get unless otherwise left to interpretation or there are subtle hints or clues.