....as much as I detest Jackie. She has one good quality, she is a good nurse....but it is not enough to redeem her. She is a total POS that should man up and spike a double load and just get it over with.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection. Send my credentials to the house of detention.
I just wrote something similar in another thread.
Jackie likely has narcissistic personality disorder, if you don't know what that is, Google it and you'll agree.
She is horribly selfish and only does things that benefit her, whether in the short term or long term. Eddie Falco has done a great job at creating a character who is absolutely horrible and unlikeable. To have her die in the finale would be the only option for the show to end...
I disagree. She does not have NPD. She is an addict. People with NPD do not necessarily have an addiction so they are not the same thing. Addicts slowly lose themselves to their addictions until they either reach a "rock bottom" where they choose to get better or until they die from it. That's what we're seeing here.
"I thought Nip Alert showed great promise." Erlich Bachman
I disagree. People with NPD can be many things, including drug addicts, gamblers, physical abusers, drunks, etc. It is also just as likely that people with NPD don't have any of those vices and lead otherwise normal lives.
Jackie was just as selfish, manipulative and controlling when she was sober as well as when she was using. Her underlying self hadn't changed at all, still using Eddie for support when she was sober (she doesn't truly love him), manipulating Zoe to take her Pee test when she was sober, having the secret deal to get her license back from the Norwegians while she was sober. If Jackie was just an addict, then when she got sober, she'd be a better person. But she's not because she's got NPD.
Jackie lacks the ability to put herself in the shoes of those shes hurts...which shows her lack of empathy, people with NPD lack empathy among other things. This happens when she is sober for one year and when she is using. She hits most of the diagnostics in the DSM-IV and 5. Not because of the coincidental traits of addicts, but because she is the very same while sober, which she was for pretty much all of this season.
We can agree to disagree.
I think you are confusing sobriety with recovery. Jackie has been sober on the show but she has never truly been in recovery. She gets clean as a means to an end not because she really wants to be clean. You have to want to be clean more than you want to use again to truly be in recovery.
Jackie does not lack the ability to put herself in others shoes nor does she lack empathy. We see her putting herself in patients shoes all the time and making sure they get the help they need much more so than any of the other hospital staff (aside from maybe Dr. Prince). She did not want to hurt Gloria with the lawyer info but Gloria wouldn't let up. But clearly she understood Gloria would be upset --- more proof she could put herself in someone else's shoes.
Also, the core of NPD Is a deep need for admiration from others. They crumble under even the smallest type of criticism as they see themselves as perfect. Jackie does not fit this and is the first to admit she has serious problems. While she might fit other traits of someone with NPD --- many personality disorders have overlapping traits. Her ability to lie and manipulate could be part of a personality disorder or it could just be something she's good at and having honing her craft over the years due to her serious addiction.
So, yes, we disagree.
"I thought Nip Alert showed great promise." Erlich Bachman
You make some good points. Narcissists can be overt or covert narcissist and the two play out quite differently. You may be focusing on overt narcissists. I agree that Jackie could be like most narcissists and have overlapping cluster B disorders. Maybe she's also got APD or BPD? All three are horribly destructive.
Regarding your comment that the "lawyer wouldn't let up"... that is not what happened. Jackie, not the lawyer, was the one who decided to bring up Gloria's son. Once Gloria started getting angry at the meeting Jackie pulled out a file folder (I think it was red?) from the lawyer's pile of folders and she said something like "Go ahead let's use this" and he even asked her if she was sure... then she gave him the green light to use the file on Gloria's son.
We have one more episode to go, it's a great show, but boy does Edie Falco do a great job at making Jackie unlikeable.
She did not want to hurt Gloria with the lawyer info but Gloria wouldn't let up.
Now that the finale has aired the head producer & showrunner just did an interview. He said:
“Jackie Peyton is a train wreck. She’s a sociopathic drug addict who has destroyed everything in her life. There’s one reason (viewers) have stuck with it for seven years, and that one reason is Edie Falco,” Phillips said.
Sociopath is not that far off from narcissist and typically, both are present. There's the reason her behaviour didn't change while she was sober for the whole season... she was written that way intentionally.
Please stop throwing around terms and diagnosis' like you are simply identifying traits of a personality. It is extremely damaging to the mental health community when you have people like yourself, mis-diagnosing whilst acting like an authority. You are free to have your opinion, but do not act as though it is the authoritarian and finite one.
The showrunner may have intended to create a sociopath, but they certainly did not present one. A person who is a sociopath does not drive past a car-crash only to stop and go back to help, especially when they are potentially jeopardising literally everything in the process. A sociopath does not obsessively continue to call there dead friend out of need for an emotional outlet and inability to let that relationship go, because a sociopath does not have any emotions that need an outlet, and they certainly do not create emotional bonds with people and most definitely not to the degree they are unable to let go when they die. A sociopath does not show care or concern for their children when there only possible motive could be of genuine interest for that child's well-being. You seem to think that just because jackie isn't high, she's no longer a drug addict. A person will continue to be a drug addict unless and until they truly want to give up the drugs. This never happens for jackie so even though she may be 'clean' she is still an addict. She still behaves like an addict. She still reacts like an addict. She still thinks like an addict. Addiction is an all-consuming disease and it can cause people who do not possess a personality disorder to suddenly start appearing like they do, but this does not mean that they do! If you know addiction, then you know it can turn even the strongest empath into the most disgusting, selfish, nastiest person. Their have only been a handful of reported case's where adults developed anti-social personality disorder, and these instances always included some form of brain damage. Which means although the addict and the sociopath may seem almost indistinguishable, the difference is one has the ability to return to humanity, and one never has a hope in *beep* hell (until science catches up)
Oh FFS, I posted a direct quote from the show runner stating that Jackie is a sociopath. HE should know, he is the one developing the character.
Or does your opinion suddenly trump his? Please stop being an idiot, it is a *beep* TV show.
Wow such un-necessary hostility and completely un-called for. Just because someone creates a character doesn't mean their opinion is infallible; it's called bad writing, which i think the final season suffered from, and where i think the cause for most of the confusion comes from. Sure you can choose to go with what he intended, or you can choose to go with what was presented, which are too very different things. Maybe his vision and intentions for the character changed as the series developed, which is why we get some inconsistencies and why his final objective for the character ultimately doesn't hold up. And it is not opinion, it is fact that a sociopath just does not do some of the things that were presented in the show, this is indisputable. All this means is that the showrunner obviously did not have adequate information about what sociopathy entails to correctly write/create a character who is one.
shareUnnecessary hostility? Your post goes on about how what I wrote is damaging to the "mental health community". How stupid is that? I posted a statement from the man who had a hand in forming the CHARACTER Jackie. It is a TV show. I don't think those with mental health issues are as bad off as you seem to think that they can't tell a TV show from real life. Not to mention, they would likely take something the executive producer and show runner said about the character over some random IMDB poster like you. I'm not "acting like an authority" I am posting a comment from someone who is an authority on the character. And just because YOU didn't see sociopathic traits while she was sober for most of the season doesn't mean they weren't there. Why don't you have this discussion with the executive producer and leave me alone since he is the one who said Jackie was a sociopath?
You said:
It is extremely damaging to the mental health community when you have people like yourself, mis-diagnosing whilst acting like an authority.
Basically know nothing about the guy, but from what i have seen i'm gettin major sociopath vibes, aka inability to feel any real emotion, specifically any form of sympathy. The monotone voice, dead eyes, predators stare; impossible to hide in photos, which is why you'll always get an uncomfortably intense stare into the camera every time. And no, most sociopaths are actually not in-fact murderous criminals, so don't dismiss the idea based on an ill-informed, pre-concieved notion of a disorder thats been misrepresented as a result of pop-cultures mishandling. But yes, thought this'd make for some interesting discussion, so i'd like to hear others opinions.share
I don't think those with mental health issues are as bad off as you seem to think
Nice... just copy a portion of my message so that it can be taken out of context. Despite the typo I made after what you copied, I noted that those with mental health issues can tell the difference between real life and a TV show.
Wow, well that was.... bizarre. I also notice you followed me over to another thread, only so you could continue to spew your hatred, which is unbelievably weird. Unfortunately for you however this does not have the desired effect you were hoping for of pulling me down to your level of bitter self hate and hostility, rather i find this all rather amusing and slightly worrisome. You need help.
Now i am going to ignore most of what you wrote, simply because it is too much of a mess for me to even want to bother writing you a reply, not to mention it doesn't deserve it because it is completely irrelevant and did absolutely nothing to contribute to an interesting discussion. But i will respond to your final sentiments. You seem not to understand the difference between speculation and stating something as absolute and fact. Note "getting vibes" and "basically know nothing about the guy", alluding to the fact that this is coming from an un-informed stand-point and that i may very well be totally incorrect. I thought it could be an opportunity for people to express whether or not they received similar impressions, an avenue for speculation as to someones personality, a personality i obviously found quite odd and a discussion i thought could be interesting. I think it's quite clear my intention with that thread is not 'This person is a sociopath. Even though i may be wrong i am going to state this as fact and have a tantrum when someone point's out to me that it is potentially damaging to diagnose people without making it clear that you could be wrong' but rather 'From the small amount of exposure i have had to this guy, he displays some traits which are common among sociopaths, therefore leading me to believe he could be one, lets open this up for discussion' Note also "i'd like to hear others opinions" and the question-mark at the end of sociopath (my god i can't believe i'm actually have to explain this to someone). Thankyou for pasting my entire comment along with you response, as it further highlights your ignorance and arrogance.
My issue is not that you think Jackie is a sociopath, even though i strongly disagree with you, which was the majority of what comprises my posts and which is what i was hoping you would respond to, instead of picking three less important sentences at the beginning of the post and refusing to move beyond them, but that you state this as fact. Like i said before, you are free to have your opinion, and i am free to discuss it with you, but you are NOT free to label people and continue to perpetuate the body of misinformation surrounding addiction and personality disorders, the fact that you can't see how wrong and stigmatising this is, is why mental illness continues to be surrounded by a cloud of ignorance and mis-understanding. So kindly shut the f up, not for my sake, but for the sake of every mentally ill person out there, like 'jackie', who has to put up with bigots like you, calling them sociopaths because of symptoms of a disease which they have no control over.
Who knows if Jackie is a good person at her core?! She is in full blown addiction, and even during the short periods of abstinence, her addiction is still active under the surface. Even Edie Falco who plays Jackie has said she has grown to dislike the character. Her nursing skills were not so great when she let Vigilante Jones jump off the roof.
shareKeeping someone from jumping off a roof is not a nursing skill. LOL! She was trying to keep him from hurting himself but she was taken off guard. She might have been able to save him if the others hadn't rushed the roof. That seemed to be what sparked him to run and take off the roof. She might have been more on her game if she wasn't using again (at least it seems she is using with all the times she's popped something in her mouth although I guess that could be a red herring).
"I thought Nip Alert showed great promise." Erlich Bachman
When dealing with a psychiatric patient who believes they are a super hero, who goes to the roof of the hospital- it IS a nursing skill. She should have known what he was planning and had plenty of time to grab him, and it was foolish of her to go up there by herself without assistance ( or restraints and a big syringe full of Haldol . She stood there with her arms by her sides while he full on kissed her. Jackie was way stoned, and a good nurse worth her salt would have made a better effort to protect her patient ( IMHO).
shareIt was Dr. Pretty who slipped Vigilante the lighter so he could burn his restraints.
I've hated the lead character in a lot of series. Carrie in Sex in the City was a vacuous, superficial narcissist. Meredith Grey on Grey's anatomy. Rachel on Glee. It does seem that they work particularly hard to make female leads unlikeable. Maybe it's an attempt to give the characters depth, but when most writers can't tell the difference between a woman and a lamp, you can see where they struggle with the idea. The only thing they know how to do is make them detestable.
I love disliking Jackie. I like disliking her so much it almost makes me love her. She's a fabulous character.
Movies are IQ tests; the IMDB boards are how people broadcast their score.
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She has one good quality, she is a good nurse
I hate Carrie from Sex And The City with a unholy passion. She's everything shallow in the world and women like her is why men hate the idea of marriage.
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