MovieChat Forums > La piel que habito (2011) Discussion > Who else thinks Zeco wasn't needed?

Who else thinks Zeco wasn't needed?


Just recently watched this film for the first time and found it very enjoyable, but I truly felt that the character and scenes of Zeco wasn't needed. I almost found him some what random and unimportant to the story. Who feels the same way? Overall, great and captivating film!

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He added a sort of irony and set things in motion as others have said. But I would like to point out that just because something is unnecessary doesn't mean that it shouldn't be in the film. Pulp fiction, for example. The whole Vincent and Mia date is absolutely 100% irrelevant to the rest of the sections, if you took it out, you would still understand the movie. Yet, it is my favorite part of Pulp Fiction

"This is a $4000 sofa upholstered in Italian silk. Its not just a couch"
"ITS JUST A COUCH!"

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Zeco was annoying but he revealed things about the relationship between Robert and Gal that we get nowhere else. In fact, he does not "really" rape Gal (at least in Zeco's mind). He ASSUMES a relationship that apparently existed with the "real" Gal. According to his insinuations they would go at it like rabbits. At one point he asks 'what's wrong with you?' - when she doesn't appear to be enjoying it. In answer Vera answers "it's so big" and Zeco says 'it's the same as it's always been. It used to drive you wild.' Vera is smart enough to go along and says 'it still drives me crazy.'

He does not want to do it in the garden (which presumably is where he had to do it with her since he was 'hidden' on the grounds). He wants a real bed.

He also asks her at one point: 'he still lock you up?' and 'how are you getting on with him?'

Very interesting. So Robert used to lock up the original Gal?
Promiscuity? Unfaithfulness?

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I've only seen it once but I didn't catch that! Very interesting, thanks for sharing

"This is a $4000 sofa upholstered in Italian silk. Its not just a couch"
"ITS JUST A COUCH!"

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Damn... Well interpreted. Thanks!

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Pulp Fiction is one of my top films and I never thought about it's relevancy to the story and how the film could've actually done without it. Maybe this thought never occurred to me because the Vincent and Mia date was so entertaining and Zeco just came of as an ass. He's just easily hated and I guess that's why I questioned him.

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Zeca was included for humor and sexual arousal. Banderas could not have raped Vera the way that Zeca did in his tiger costume, giant body, and the implication that his ding-dong is humongous. It's the thought that this tiger was raping this beautiful woman that used to be a man and he has no clue.

(•_•)

can't outrun your own shadow

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I think the tiger costume is representative of him being a predator. There is also a scene with Vera flipping through the t.v. channels that shows a leopard attacking a baby gazelle. I think Almodovar is making a point with this imagery. Are some of us victims because we are born to be? Can we choose to raise above the abuses inflicted on us like Vera did or let them consume and destroy us like Roberto and Norma? IDK food for thought.

-Lisa

"We keep odd hours."

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That also. I agree.

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can't outrun your own shadow

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ok let me explain to you why zeca was necessary :
1- it defines the caracter of marilia,explains her backround.
2- the raper getting rapped
3-if he didnt rape her,her vagina wouldnt hurt her that much that she couldnt have sexe with robert that day,n said i cant today he hurt me to much......
4-because she was hurt,he couldnt penetrate her,so they had to use lubrificant, n without that context .she wouldnt go get the gun from the purse.
5-it make you understand even more and put emphasis on the fact that robert made vera's face the same way his ex-wife looked
6-vera was ready to *beep* the tiger in the garden,or whereever ,she wanted to escape from the house in any way,so it shows u actually that she would rather get raped and leave this house,so it prepares you for the idea that vera was never honest with her promises to robert.
cheers.

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I definitely saw him as necessary, although I didn't realize that until the end. Up until the last quarter of the movie, I saw him as an unnecessary character.

My only thought was that it was still kind of confusing what happened with Robert's ex-wife. It may have just been me being an idiot, and I'll accept that, but could someone confirm for me that it WAS Zeco that set the car on fire?

However, I did enjoy the symbolism of the tiger costume. Zeco is the predator and "Vera" is the prey. Also liked the callback on the National Geographic Channel later in the movie of the deer trying to get away from the tiger, but eventually getting devoured anyway. Very subtle.

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Zeco and Gal ran away together but had a car accident en route. Zeco crashed the vehicle but was able to escape and left Gal. He asks Vera how she survived since "she was lit up like a torch when he left her" thinking she is Gal.

I know you won't break the rules because there aren't any.

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yeah it's also interesting that vicente was with robert's daughter in a garden as well when he worked himself on her.

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[deleted]

i think what the tyger (zero) did to vera gives her the pretence to get close to the doctor while his guard was down. the doctor was doubtful of her before that, we saw it when she suggested they could live together, he did not give in. but when the tyger did what he did to her, the doctor felt responsible and therefore guilty. So the shared the trauma let them connect in a way. it also put vera in a parallel place with the doctor's lost love (who was also connected to the tyger in a past traumatic event). also, vera was no longer the assailant but now the victim, she went through the same ordeal that got the doctor to sequester her in the first place, allowing him to redefine her role in his head. so i think he was a necessary character to the story.

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I think it was important to show that Dr. Ledgard had a brother, which he didn't know, from his real mom, the caretaker, which he was also unaware of, to show that he was so insane he had lost touch with reality, and was completely obsessed with only one detail in his whole family, his wife, considering he strongly neglected his daughter after the accident. it was important for his characterization to show his whole family falling out of his visibility in almost every way. also, when you realize that the woman who looked just like his wife, who zeco had sex with, it should be obvious that they must have had an affair at some point down the line, and when it is revealed to actually be a post-op dude at the end of the movie, it shows how perfect and amazing his obsession was to create such an infallible reconstruction of his wife. i don't think it was unnecessary whatsoever.

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Lots of good reasons and points for Zeca's necessity already mentioned. I'd like to add a few (obviously, spoilers follow):

1) In both rapes, Zeca raping Vera and Vincent raping Norma, the men thought the women were willing. A) Zeca thought he was with a past lover, and Vera played the part and came mostly willingly, albeit of course out of fear and hope that she might escape, and B) Vincent thought Norma was high on ecstasy-like drugs, with her wanting to get naked, appearing to enjoy his advances at first, and initially showing no signs of struggle. When she did struggle, Vincent stopped, knocked her out to stop her screaming, but did not continue the rape while she was unconscious to "finish". Vincent also says later to Robert's explanation of why he's doing this, "I don't think I actually raped her". I am definitely not trying to excuse either guy's behavior here, just saying the director intentionally made both rapes not so clear cut, and parallel in more ways than one.

2) Zeca was needed to show how insanity, violence, and immorality was in Robert's blood. Indeed, he is a shadow of Robert, could even be Robert's internal beast personified. At the very least, Zeca is a version of Robert's beast much more physically imposing, but less methodical and intelligent; both men are equally evil and reprehensible. You could even say the comparison of the brothers displays a minor theme of what an upbringing of wealth and privilege does to a born monster: it doesn't lessen the monster, it just gives him more education and opportunity, along with more tools to both inflict pain and camouflage his crimes. Also, you see that both monsters are in disguise, Zeca in a simple disguise of a flimsy tiger costume, while Robert has an elaborate and impenetrable disguise of a wildly successful surgeon. And both men's monster eventually leads to their demise.

3) When Robert came upon Zeca and Vera, it was the closest Robert ever got to killing Vera. Remember the intense pause as he held the gun pointed at her? He tortured Vincent, castrated him for the rape, turned him into a woman and held him captive for 6 years, but never came close to killing him/her. In fact, he worked hard to save her from multiple suicide attempts. That was a pivotal moment for both Robert and Vera: Robert finally realized he couldn't kill her, even when it became obvious in his twisted world how dangerous it was to keep her alive, and he hugged her after he killed Zeca. Robert realized he loved her. Vera realized that Robert did care for her more than just to keep her around for torture. Remember also through this whole experience with Zeca, Vera found out she was made in Robert's wife's image, not just made into a random beautiful woman. And she then knew that she could both use it to escape, but also that she had to kill Robert to ensure her safety going forward. That's why she didn't escape when she went shopping with Mirilia, and instead came back to kill them both.

4) Many other parallels were shown between the brothers, like how Vera ran out of the door from both men after hitting them, she had sex with both unwillingly but acted like she wanted it so she could get away, she said to both of them "it hurts", both sons have a food relationship with Marilia, both eating her food shortly after being reunited after years of separation and saying to her "something smells good!". In fact, all the Zeca scenes are almost mirrored at some point by Robert: meeting Mirilia after a separation, seeing Vera on the TV and discussing her with Mirilia, having sex with Vera, and getting shot right afterward. All of Zeca's story happens in minutes, whereas Robert's takes years. These parallels are many and too close to be coincidence. They are supposed to be opposites and yet the same.

Opposites have many examples too: one brother is a plastic surgeon and the other has hideous facial scars, one has great hair while the other has none, one has a large house and the other is homeless, one loved by the mother while the other is hated, etc.

So Zeca was a foreshadow of things to come for Robert, and a depiction of the monster inside Robert. It definitely adds layers of dept and introspection. Zeca's story really sets up one of the crucial themes of the movie: which one is the greater monster? The base brute, or the mad scientist? And I think the movie does a great job of showing they are pretty much the same.

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I hated the character and felt him to be unnecessary however, I think he added various things to the story. One that Marilia had two sons and that they both had sexual relations with the same woman upon whose face Vicente/Vera's was modelled.

Secondly he had added to the theme of skins (dressed as a tiger), scared skins requiring operation and rape/penetration. So although I loathed him and found him repulsive rather than funny he brought something to the film.

I liked the line it enabled Marilia to say as well, about having madness in her entrails.

Fatima had a fetish for a wiggle in her scoot

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