Just recently watched this film for the first time and found it very enjoyable, but I truly felt that the character and scenes of Zeco wasn't needed. I almost found him some what random and unimportant to the story. Who feels the same way? Overall, great and captivating film!
shareI think *the tiger* brought a surreal almost comical element to the movieand was certainly not uneccesary.
shareI agree with you, I mean, without Zeca this film would still the same... but then again, like previous poster said, it adds the humor element... To be honest that man was really funny with that tiger costume. Even his mother who despise him eventually let him in because that 'little tiger' costume.
shareOh for sure, seeing him run across the street in that tiger suit was a bit ridiculous. A bit of humor I guess but still, I could do without it.
He explained he was wanted by the police. The only reason he was able to come out in the open was because it was carnaval and he could disquise himself.
Relax! @ www.bryanel.com
quote: "without Zeca this film would still the same"
You obviously didn't get it. Zeco is the perfect revenge for Robert's daughter being raped by Vincente.
This way Vincente gets raped himself while being Vera.
The rapist got raped!
Relax! @ www.bryanel.com
Vicente didn't rape her. That's Robert's point of view, actually his daughter was trying to come back to the normal social life and tried to make out with a guy, but when she was doing that the singer in the party started singing the song she was singing (sorry for the extreme repetition, my English is not so good) when her mother killed herself, so she panicked and everything ended how it did. I don't think Almódovar used the character for that purpose. I think he tried to add both humor and drama.
Zeca is the core of all the movie's troubles, everything goes wrong when he's being chased by police and ends up in Robert's house, where he *beep* his wife and she leaves him for this guy, they have an accident and he runs, leaving Galv behind almost dead. Also Zeca is Robert's brother.
I think each character doesn't need to have an important role in the movie, Zeca is just retorical, he's more a text resource than something important, it gives the movie personality, aesthetics.
Vicente didn't rape her?? We must have seen different films, because what I saw was rape.
She gave no consent. She laid there like a dead fish, clearly not enjoying it from the get go. She looked disconnected from it, like a woman being raped. She was brought back by the music, and said stop, but he wouldn't. I don't know where you come from, but no/stop means just that. It was only until she bit him, and even then he tried to keep going, that he smacked her, fixed her (so she wouldn't look like she was raped, uh, only people who don't want to get caught cover their tracks like that) and dug out. Didn't rape her... Okay.
http://www.facebook.com/ainoakeolakauilani
Initially she consented, even she initiated what could hardly be not seen as an invitation to go further. I mean, she was having fun with him while walking outside. If I am remembering well, she's the one who makes the first move to go somewhere else. Even when she was saying stop it must be confusing for the character. And anyways he didn't penetrate her. I'm not meaning you have to penetrate to have the act considered as rape, but his intention wasn't to take a girl somewhere and *beep* her no matter what.
shareThanks for your post indicating that it was the song that set her off. Since I did not understand the words (I watched the movie with English subtitles and the songs were not translated) I did not realise it was the same one.
I have to disagree with you.
I believed Vicente did rape Norma.
And for Vicente/Vera to be later raped by Zeca, was pure poetic justice.
When you compare the rapes it is kind of like that scene in Crocodile Dundee where the punk pulls the knife and Crocodile says 'That's not a knife... THAT's a knife'. "That's not a rape ....."
share> The rapist got raped!
Yeah. Except Vicente wasn't a rapist.
The Dude Abides...
I do think that the point Marilla makes about Zeco and Ledgard being brothers is a bit pointless, since it was never really touched on again, was it? But I do think that he was needed for that moment where he mistakes Vera for Gal. That was quite powerful.
shareYeah sure. Zeca was not needed, the rape scenes were obsolte. I think the sex-change theme should have been avoided also.
Hey why didn't almodovar just make a fancy comedy in spain with penelope cruz as the love interest and antonia banderas as her lover? That would be awesome and original.........not.
it will be awesome and original:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2243389/
"Theres gonna be fighting....and somebodys gonna get hurt, thats for sure!"
[deleted]
I love your sarcasm :)
Relax! @ www.bryanel.com
Yea, I think what we learn from Zeco is that Antonio is shaping Vincente into the mould of his dead wife. This is why he ends up dieing, because he's so talented at plastic surgery he ends up falling in love with his victim because s/he looks so much like Gal.
shareZeco was the catalyst. His unruly behavior was the driving force that set the chain of events in motion.
share[deleted]
I agree with the Purge! He was the catalyst that set the vengeance story in motion.
On a sidenote. Zeca extended the theme of men being physically obssesed with almost perfect beautifull woman. He was just a (violent) sucker for a pretty face. Both Zeca and Robert had psychotic problems to me.
They didn't seem to really love... or care about the inside of a person... but be more obssesed with the outside. The skin.
The artsy comedic value about the tiger suit was well done, agree
I find it interesting that no one has touched on the rapist being raped aspect of the Zeco/Vera interaction
R.I.P. Arrested Development.
I mentioned this in another post. I thought the true intention was to turn Vincente into a woman so that he/she could be raped like he thought his daughter had been.
I think after Robert seeing Vera being raped his feelings changed and he no longer wanted to hurt her.
That's so blatantly obvious that I forgot to mention it. Everybody who thinks zecas charakter was not necessary didn't get on of the main themes of the story.
sharewhoa... good point.
shareExactly!!!
I just finished the film and I am glad that someone pointed that out. The rape scene has no significance until, the audience realizes that Vera is Vicente. Then the scene means everything. The rapist being raped, changed the dynamic between Vicente and the Doctor. The doctor can finally empathize with Vicente. His empathy, leads to a emotional/sexual attachment to Vera, which leads to his death.
This is a great point. I didn't like the character but I knew it had a place. Although, the way you explained it made me think about it a little more and I completely agree with you. Thanks for the explanation.
My thoughts exactly!
shareWasn't Vicente already being raped by Robert, though?
Or did Robert only begin having sex with Vicente/Vera after the incident with the tiger?
I agree with everything you said. Very captivating film.
Zeco is the least enjoyable part of the film. But....sometimes some of my favorites do have one element I don't care for.
In my opinion it made the plot twist even more disturbing. When the real identity of Vera is revealed, the rape scene felt hilariously ironic and extremely disturbing at the same time. Really made me felt uncomfortable as a male!
shareYou hit on something here. Let me ask you a question: could a heterosexual man fall in love with this woman knowing that at one time he was a man? Could you?
Attraction is based on biochemical sensual impressions. He looks, feels and smells like a woman through hormone therapy. So why not. What's holding some guyss back is social and cultural conditioning.
shareMany heterosexual men have fallen in love with transexuals and even Lady Boys who looked like women but have not undergone gender reassignment surgery. These men do not consider themselves to be gay because they are not enchanted or entranced by the male. Instead, they truly have fallen in love with someone, who was born male, but has now looked and possesses the sexual organs of a female. This is too common place and numerous documentaries have accounted for this.
shareZeco was completely necessary to advance the narrative.
share