I've noticed something. People seem to think they need to say they like this drama and then feel the need to explain they're not religious.
So do people think ALL Christians will like this, and ALL atheists ought to hate it?
Since when were all Christians the Borg? If someone tells me "You should watch this cos the creator of it is a Christian" I'm less likely to be well disposed towards it, because if I like something it's because I like it and not because my religious faith somehow has an added-on feature of a predisposition to milk-and-water religious viewing.
If getting atheists to agree is like herding cats, then the same applies to Christian viewers. I daresay some of us will love it and some of us will hate it. I have a Christian friend who avoids all dramas like this because of their demonic content. She's afraid. I'm not afraid because I can recognise drama (ie..... it's all pretendy!) when I see it. Some will like it, some won't, much like normal regular people.
So you can all stop declaring what card-carrying atheists you are!
The thing that drew me to watch it after not much advertising was not its religious content but the pull of Martin Shaw and Joe Ahearne.
Today I sat in the kitchen of my Muslim friend and we had a long discussion about episode 5 as well as the show in general.
I understand that to enjoy CSI or Waking the Dead I do not need to be a policeman, to enjoy Heroes I do not need to have powers and to enjoy West Wing I do not need to be in government, so why the same with Apaaritions?
Bean Girl: Charlie Darling ...The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few...
Indeed! And what did your Muslim friend make of episode 5? I'd love to know what Muslims thought of that. I bet they are glad that there's a drama and it's got Muslims in it and it's NOT pertaining to terrorism or racism. Much like this drama has a priest in it and it's not about paedophilia, or adultery or any of the other sexual sins celibate people are supposed to fall into.
I think there are subtle underlying religious assumptions to this drama that will annoy atheists and agnostics. I’ve pointed out a couple of these things on other threads because I think this drama is very unusual in this respect which makes it quite an interesting subject. There are a couple of atheists on this board who have completely flipped out about them which I think is getting it out of proportion. There are other atheists who don’t seem the slightest bit bothered by them. To me this seems an extreme atheist attitude. It’s like the whole religious debate is so irrelevant to them that they couldn’t care less about what Christians infer about them.
However, the religious assumptions are subtle and for most people it will not be a major factor as to whether likes the series or not. It’s an intelligent, well-acted horror. Whether or not you like horror will be the biggest factor.
I’m actually interested in what Christians think about the religious stuff though. Obviously there is a wide range Christian belief and it’s possible that some Christians would also be slightly irritated by some of the religious mumbo-jumbo.
I agree you about censorship. The show was clearly offensive to atheists. For example, having a demon reading Richard Dawkins made no sense except to cast aspersions that there was something nefarious about them. A demon wouldn’t be interested in the debate about the existence of God because he would know there was a God.
At the same time, I think it would be pathetic for anyone to say this show shouldn’t be made because of that. I think it’s reasonable for atheists to make it clear they didn’t like this show and why they didn’t like the show. I don’t imagine the BBC will take that much notice of them anyway when they come to deciding whether to commission a new series.
I think it will make it's decision on ratings and whether the person responsible for commissioning likes the show or not. I don't think atheists opinions will hols much sway any more than offended Christians would be.
Contrary to what is said in some of the tabloids, the BBC makes some very socially conservative television. The Mary Whitehouse Story was quite sympathetic to her and there was a pro-Enoch Powell documentary they made not long ago.
I’m very surprised to find that Joe Ahearne is an atheist after having seen this and Ultraviolet but I’ve checked a transcript of an interview he did for the BBC and he says that he is. He also says he has a peculiar fascination with faith.
All I can say is that I can’t remember having been proved to be wrong so decisively on an internet forum.
And that's a nice smile, see my "Martin Shaw" thread!
I'm impressed by how civilised this discussion is. You wouldn't see a thread like this on the "Religion" board, someone would have been offering death threats by now. (If you know the Religion board, you'd know I'm not exaggerating).
Yes, I never got into "Judge John Deed", I think I saw a comedy parody of it that made the whole thing look ridiculous and it put me off. Maybe it was the skit you're talking about.
There are also tremendous underlying themes in this series dealing with religion vs the church, and with faith vs. religion. It makes a good many symbolic points that surpass the story its using as a vehicle to make them.
I think there's a tendency, given its explosive nature, to take the dramatic elements far too literally, which parallels the hysteria over Harry Potter. And its evident on both sides of the issue in this case.
To me, it is a piece of art that helps the viewer explore him or herself a little more thoroughly
I don't know what's troubling about Mother Theresa being Exorcised on her death bed, its a matter of record that she was by the orders of The Archbishop of Calcutta, Henry Sebastian D'Souza.
Another point for everyone to digest is that Exorcism is not a Catholic monopoly, Anglicans, Muslims etc all have their own versions and have active exorcists in their organisations. However, in TV world its always the Catholics
I do remember the child trying to claim that her father must be possessed because he was reading books like "The God Delusion", to which the exorcist protagonist says "but I've got all these books myself!" Priests aren't afraid of books by non-believers (at least not relatively liberal ones like the protagonist), so the idea that Richard Dawkins' book would be a sign of evil is rightly dismissed in that episode.
Jews did not come out of the show very well either, Islam seems pretty much unnecessary, Satanists are probably a bit ticked off and well if you happen to be any other religion, tough.
We can't really take anything on TV so seriously, exorcism is a traditional right in the RC church, it cannot be performed without faith,we have seen programmes before with people who are beated down by RL, full of cynicism and distrust, it was great to see a character with strong convictions and faith for a change, even if it is not my own, even if his beliefs are in opposition to my own, I can take a good fictional character for what it is.
If you love Satan and are 100% proud of it copy this and make your signature!
I’m loving this tv series for the plot, for the acting, for the mood, for pretty much everything.
I feel whoever hates this show on the grounds of his religion or lack thereoff is narrow minded and incongruent.
Look, I’m a non-practicing Catholic. I believe in the divine, but I don’t believe in organized religion, and I have read both books of the first episode. That is where we are shown some good points where the series deals with the issues raised quite well: “I’ve read these books too”. So have I, and many others. If the requirement to enjoy books that criticize a certain vision of the divine is to be an atheist, then the requirement for Einstein not to like Quantum Physics should be that he shouldn’t be bothered to read anything on the subject?
This show is great and it’s not passing any religious view onto the audience. Oh yes, it acts like the demons are very concerned about the catholic church’s exorcists, but that’s hardly religious preaching. Seriously, in the worst case scenario, demons possess people. In the best case scenario exorcism boils down to religious folklore, and this folklore is no different than Lord Of The Rings or cursed mummies. And I for one don’t believe Christians loathe movies with other religious customs, nor that atheists loathe movies who speak about gods.
Whoever does it, really has some deeper issues than what he believes or not. A priest fighting demons who fear his power is no different than some Amazonian Indian fighting demons on the eve of becoming the tribe’s shaman. Both cases are fiction, but this show at least calls into question what is faith, what are miracles, and a huge number of things that is worth thinking about no matter what your religion is or if you have one at all. After all, taking a stand is not a matter of your ignorance leaving you only with your option. It’s also to see what the other party has to say and chose if its arguments fit you or not.
And what would any atheist with a bit of intelligence have against the plot of this show or the convictions of its characters? Are atheists the kind of people who will boo at any actor on the streets because the guy played Jesus in some movie? Surely they realize that “demonic possession” predates Catholicism and Judaism and thousands of year old skeleton show trepanations to let the demons “out”? Using archaic religions just doesn’t carry the same punch as using the predominant religion in the target audience, regardless of Catholicism’s monopoly of demonic possessions and exorcism mambo jambo.
As an Iranian and a muslim i found the series quite interesting and well made, however im not exactly a "practicing muslim" but nevertheless i have strong faith in the one God.
If they had spent a bit more on the series this would have had worldwide appeal, martin shaw is indeed a great actor and should be shared with the world.
Very good post....not seen this show (only just heard about it) but wanted just to say a big "well-said"....and I'm going to hunt down the DVD now I think....
That's right. It' very simple, and I'm going to saying it again: i don't believe in the abrahamic God and I'm against organized religions, but even so I really enjoy this show. Great cast, very good acting, good story, etc. In the same way I don't believe in UFOs or conspiracy theories but I loved The X-Files. Why? Because it's just entertainment: fiction.
So, about this show, I think some christians liked it, others not. And the same for atheists, agnostics, etc: some people liked it, others not. It's simple. There isn't a religious issue here.