The cave lady wakes him up, doesn't that count for her being real?
shareIf only an audience member could share his theories about how such a supposed portrayal of 2 characters' slight interaction need be evaluated above all else for definitive overall plot interpretation.
it sure would help.
I'm with you Milesy. The scene was sure shot as real, so it's got to be just as real as every other scene shot that way.
I guess that you could argue that the whole movie is just in his head, and that nothing is 100% real. In that case, you can't prove that anything actually happens (or doesn't happen), so any interpretation is valid.
For me, she is the most realistic part of the movie as everything that she says is historically accurate (and she turned out to be absolutely right about the untrustworthy staff), while the rest of the scenes leave me thinking "Come on--You've got to be kidding me!"
Sure that counts for her being real.
The shot was from audience's POV. Teddy was sleeping and not hallucinating and we see from third person perspective that Cave lady is waking Teddy up.
Retard... Pussy... Sinister_prig
Bump
shareTotally wrong. The cave lady is pure hallucination - denoted by her being accompanied and framed by fire - telling Teddy everything he wants to hear.
Fire = pleasurable delusion. Water = painful truth.
It’s interesting that some viewers also prefer conspiratorial delusion to hard truth.
It's interesting that some viewers deliberately ignore subtle clues and movie making rules to suit their beliefs.
Ignoring the frame of reference may solve your purpose but not for sensible audience. Teddy was sleeping and not hallucinating. The camera was set to give 3rd person Point of View where we see Cave Lady waking Teddy up. This itself negates any chance of her being an hallucination.
What you're trying to say is that, whilst ignoring the POV (which idly in your case should have been with Teddy's eyes opening to reveal Cave lady waking him up), Teddy was dreaming about Cave Lady waking him up and that dream seamlessly turns into hallucination where he hallucinates the Cave Lady preparing to leave !!
Are you one of those desperate morons who thinks the Cave Lady is real?
share^ Butthurt Idiot who's actually the desperate one to prove his delusional beliefs by ignoring clear logic. Your parents must've been repenting on your birth.
Again, are you one of those desperate morons who thinks the Cave Lady is real?
I just came over here after watching a ridiculously long video breaking down why Leo wasn't crazy at all and they were experimenting on him the whole time ala the Wicker man where everything was set up by Kingsley and co from the very beginning.
I am planning to re watch it again later today but i have to say this interpretation complete improves the film in my opinion and takes it from a 3 to a 9.
I never rated this film because i figured out the 'twist' within 5 minutes before he even got off the boat so was just waiting to be proven right so if i can figure it out then it isn't really that clever.
This interpretation makes the film far far more sinister and now i have heard it it does fit with something Scorsese is capable of. He did similar things in Taxi Driver and King of Comedy where what you saw on screen at the end is debatable and has enough doubt to fuck with the audience.
I just saw the same video on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fWXnnBwYqU
YES! I always knew that lady in the cave was real! Yes, and I also agree with you that only a naïve moron would think that Scorsese would make such a predictable movie.
I never liked the "Teddy is crazy" story-line simply because I hated the doctors and hoped that they were wrong. They were obviously messing with Teddy the whole time, even if they did have his best intentions in mind (which I seriously doubt).
I didn't care if Teddy was really crazy the whole time or not, but one thing I knew for sure... Those doctors weren't any better off. They are definitely the worst psychiatrists I have ever seen--Giving the "most-dangerous" patient on the island free reign of the entire place in the hopes that it would get him to reality? Who would do that?
So I'm with Lucia and FZane here... If there isn't an alternate explanation (and it turns out there are tons), then this movie sucks, and it isn't worth one more second of thought. So I watched this YouTube video, and yeah, I think he's onto something there (even if it doesn't all make sense).
One thing extra i want to add because i have been doing a bit of extra reading.
Regarding the cave lady i read that she is also in on it, it's all part of the breaking him down and making him feel helpless. Even though she is revealing the truth it is all part of their plan, which does make sense because i did find it odd that he saw the fire in the cave after reaching Chuck which we know was staged. It was too convenient a bread crumb trail to be by accident
Good work Lucia. Where are you finding this reading by the way?
You might be interested in this interview with the writer of the novel (Dennis Lehane)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIPx1KWyXUU
Haha thanks,
I was actually trolling through some of the really old post on here, you know when the IMDB boards were good, you find a lot more detailed and in depth debate than what there is now sadly. One of the posts shared a link which led me to a bit of an out their website but really interesting none the less.
Ill see if i can get that link back up i'ts basically all to do with MK Ultra and the real experiments that actually took place in the 50's.
https://www.truthspoon.com/2010/08/shutter-island-revelation-of-method-of.html
shareWow, that was an interesting read. It took me about as long to read it as it took to watch that video. And I don't know if you've had a chance to watch the video I've linked yet, but I found it interesting that Lehane didn't take inspiration to write this novel from Sybil or The Three Faces of Eve or anything to do with multiple personalities, but instead from The Patriot Act (which gave the government the right to spy on us) and The Manchurian Candidate (about brainwashing).
So when I think about the movie and how Cawley would constantly brag about knowing everything that Teddy said and did, and how he and Sheehan would blatantly lie to Teddy for the sole purpose of confusing him and messing up his perception of reality, it sure seems a lot more about control and brainwashing to me.
Regarding the topic at hand, at the beginning of the movie when they were showing Teddy pictures of Rachel Solando, if you look closely, you'll see that there are pictures of both nurse Rachel and cave-lady Rachel. How could they have produced a picture of someone who isn't real (as Cawley claimed at the end)? This proves that she is real and that she is part of the brainwashing-team (as you have already pointed out).
I haven't but i will. I am not surprised at all i know a lot of people put way too much credence on what the director says but with these types of films in particular they deliberately are evasive or misleading of course they are never going to come out and say this is what it's really about the whole film is constructed in a way to deceive the viewer and they know only a certain percent will figure it out thats the beauty they can show us how they fuck us to our face and then say oh no thats not what it's about and people will take their word
It's that white coat effect i did one half term of Psychology lol people will believe anything someone in supposed authority tell them even if it's to the detriment of themselves or others
But we get third person view of Leo's dreams about his wife dancing with him while burning up like a piece of wood. Does that mean that he really danced with his burning wife as the house burned around them?
shareI think you got quite rattled with something that thwarted your delusional beliefs and then went searching for something to prove your nonsense and then came up with this lousy comment.
I know your IQ is a single digit number but am writing this for others who read this thread:
That scene starts with Teddy's eyes closing and ends with Teddy's eyes opening. So by this transition, we know its a dream. By the way, did you see any close up of Teddy's eyes opening before Cave Lady waking him up? No. Neither does that happen when he went to sleep.
You said that we see it from third person perspective. Meaning it can't be a dream
If we are shown Teddy's eyes opening from a third person perspective, then by your logic, he actually opened his eyes. He didn't dream that he opened them.