MovieChat Forums > The Ides of March (2011) Discussion > Morris didn't do anything wrong

Morris didn't do anything wrong


Really, he had sex with a 20 years old woman, a very mature woman who knew what was going on. Worst case scenario he betrayed his wife and he needs to get straight with her, but he didn't do anything wrong to the country, the sexual relationships of politicians shouldn't have be taken out of the personal context, even if the guy is a cheating bastard. The movie is amazing to expose the hipocrisy, the lines of Stephen saying to him something like "you can start wars, you can invade another countries and you can take soldiers to get killed, you just can't have sex with the intern" were amazing.

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[deleted]

You mean Clinton, right? Works both ways tiger.

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Right, this resembles CLINTON and KENNEDY more than anyone else.

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LOL!!! oh my...

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Yeah, really, lol.

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"you can start wars, you can invade another countries and you can take soldiers to get killed, you just can't have sex with the intern"

Crazy? I think so too.

But it's not just Morris, and it's not just this movie ...it's the way politics currently works in the U.S. (Is he talking about Morris? Or Clinton? Or...?)

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When Clinton was asked why he did it he answered "BECAUSE I COULD". Thats the significance of Stephens statement. Wars usually are politics, just by other means. While sex with underaged intern girl is simple case of stupidity, sexism, arrogance etc etc...


http://thebest-of-times.blogspot.com/

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sexism?

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[deleted]

Haha, 20 year girl is underage? And sexism, what are you on about?

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First of all, when Stephen gives him that speech he isn't talking about what is or is not appropriate. He's talking about what is likely to lose votes with the public. And acknowledging that standards tend to be skewed when it comes to what people will or will not forgive or put up with in their elected officials.

And second, the affair with the intern is one indication of his character. That he's a man who is willing to cheat on his wife, sleep with a young, impressionable intern with a bit of star wonder (even if she is an adult) and one who is the daughter of a colleague at that, says something about who he is and whether he's someone who will care about the best interests of his constituents or look out for himself when the chips are down. In that respect, it is relevant to how the voters might view him and that aspect of his character.

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That he's a man who is willing to cheat on his wife, sleep with a young, impressionable intern with a bit of star wonder (even if she is an adult) and one who is the daughter of a colleague at that, says something about who he is [...]


He's a guy with a libido. That's who he is. If you want to find a man in such a powerful position with that much 'integrity' after having been married for ages, best vote for a eunich.

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libido? so that excuses him? welcome to America!

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No, it doesn't 'excuse' him... but it doesn't make him an anomaly, either. It makes him a fairly ordinary guy with flaws and vulnerabilities that a lot of his electorate share... There's no such thing as the perfect human being, but it all comes down to which lies you think are more egregious, and personally I don't think that the problems in a marriage are any business of the wider world, unless the people culpable go out of their way to make it so.






Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me

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"but it doesn't make him an anomaly, either. It makes him a fairly ordinary guy with flaws and vulnerabilities that a lot of his electorate share."

That's the problem nobody wants an ordinary scum bag for a president. The breakdown of the family in the US is the root of most of our society's ills.

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I prefer to say the lack of education rather than the absence of a stable family unit - but y'know, everyone has their own fix...






"Your mother puts license plates in your underwear? How do you sit?!"

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Lack of a education does have its part but that's more of the side effect of the absence of the father. Crime rates, drug use, mental problems, suicide, depression, drop outs, rape, and murder our far more likely with kids from broken homes that's all regardless of income. The broken home is the best way for a child to become disenfranchised or feel alienated.

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Coming from a single parent family myself, and considering myself fairly well educated (to degree standard) I'd have to disagree. Of course it CAN cause problems, just like any other type of deprivation, but I don't believe it to be as reliable a determiner as the values you are raised with. My mother brought me up fine on her own. Might my prospects have been even better if my Dad had been around more often? Yeah - but coming from a 'splintered' background, I still did plenty well enough!






"Your mother puts license plates in your underwear? How do you sit?!"

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Totally agree. To be so naive as to say that it doesn't effect the country. Doing your intern does affect the country. Having sex with a younger employee while you're supposed to be working does affect your job. As does doing your intern in the oval office (Clinton), misappropriating funds to put your mistress up in a her own place with a car and monthly allowance (Edwards), and cheating on your spouse with an intern while at the same time impeaching the president for the same crime (Gingrich). You can't run a country, raise a family, and keep up an affair. And as for it not being a crime, it still violates a whole slew of inter-office dating & sexual harassment rules. There's a reason why so many companies outlaw bosses doing their underlings. If it didn't affect peoples' jobs, those rules wouldn't exist. The President shouldn't be immune to the rules & regulations that other people in the country have to follow.

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Your own examples show that the reason they got into trouble was because of sex.

After 9/11, there were concerns that the Bush administration overlooked obvious warning signs abut a major terrorist attack on US soil. Was there a big hue and cry about it? No, not really, Maybe a newspaper article or two, a TV news report or two, and that's it.

There were some hue and cry over Katrina, the incompetence, slow response, etc., but Bush wasn't impeached over it.

Your own examples reinforced the fact that in America, you can lie, cheat, kill, and you're OK. But have a sex affair, and you're out the door.

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in response to-Your own examples reinforced the fact that in America, you can lie, cheat, kill, and you're OK. But have a sex affair, and you're out the door.

First all, Edwards was not only cheating on his wife, but also misappropriated funds in the process which is a federal offense. Second of all, I never said anything about the Bush admin. My family lost everything in Katrina so yeah I do know about the incompetence. I only referred to the sex scandal examples because it involves the plot of the FILM. I didn't bring up that other stuff cuz it has nothing to do with the film. The reason why sex scandals are so big in the media is cuz ppl eat it up & it sells papers. That's all. If other more serious offenses sold more papers, than those crimes would be more blown up. The perps are then punished more not because the offense is deemed worse but because the offense caused a PR nightmare. If more ppl cared enough to pick up papers that talk about actual news & not just tawdry gossip, then more people would be punished for bigger crimes. I don't agree with it but's that the way it is now. BTW the UN is looking into bringing Bush up on war crimes just to let you know.

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Okay but everything you just said implies that the sex lives of politicians are "tawdry gossip" when in your previous comment you implied it affects the country.

The sex life of a president does NOT affect his constituents. What Edwards did was wrong because of the misappropriated funds, not because he had sex with someone who wasn't his wife. These should not be impeachable offenses. I agree with you that the only reason the newspapers blow these stories up like they do is the public response to them. It's not news, but it is entertaining. Newspaper editors know people will buy more of their product if they print this crap, so that's what they do. But it doesn't make it right.

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I said that those particular cases affected the country, because they also included other offenses and work related issues like having sex at work (oval office), doing an intern (normal ppl would get fired for that), misappropriating funds, etc. I'm not saying the sex itself is an impeachable offense. It's the other stuff that is. I'm just saying on a personal level, affairs affect your everyday life, especially if you have a job like being the president. That kind of everyday lying, sneaking around, etc takes it toll on a marriage & your job as well. It's naive to think it's not going to affect it. It does, but I don't think the affair itself should ever be an impeachable offense. I just meant it does affect someone's personal life & work. All actions, however, compartmentalized you try to keep it, will eventually spill over into other areas of your life. Impeaching someone for just an affair isn't right cuz it's not illegal. You shouldn't impeach someone for something that's not illegal IMO. However, as soon as Clinton perjured himself, he did commit a crime.

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libido? so that excuses him? welcome to America!


It's not an excuse, it's just how it is. How many of us can actually claim we'd do better if we're middle-aged, good-looking, charismatic men in a position of power after having had sex to the same woman for years after years when opportunities arise?

As far as I see it, it takes a truly exceptional individual to make such *sacrifices* for his marriage. Men are biologically programmed to desire having sex with multiple partners, so much so that it's probably at the top of the things we want out of life. Sure we might forget that temporarily during the passionate stages of an early marriage when we think we're with *the one* and want to have sex with only her 4 times a day every day, but that passion tends to fade away, especially after years and years, and it's not necessarily the man's fault (nor the woman's).

It'd be like seeing a woman stick to a man after he lost all his money, his job, went bankrupt, couldn't get a job for years and became homeless. How many married women can actually claim they'd stick to their man when they have to truly commit to him and say goodbye to all form of material? I don't think it's any less of a commitment for a man to give up all opportunities of ever having sex with another woman. Marriage might involve the vow but it'd take an exceptionally amazing woman to stick to that vow when faced with such a situation.

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I feel sorry for you.

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You just compared a man being sexually faithful to his wife with a woman staying with her husband through homelessness? Really? You think those situations are comparable?

You sound like the kind of man who justifies cheating on women by claiming it's "biology." Unfortunately, this information is perpetuated in the media, in TV shows, in movies to the point that women begin to excuse the behavior as something men "just can't help." Some women - myself included - have been lucky enough to find men with honor, decency, loyalty, love, compassion, men who don't think their penises are more important than the women they proclaim to love.

I feel sorry for you and any woman who shares your bed.

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You got it backwards, I'm afraid.

Imagine if Morris is a bad guy; he' an alcoholic, he beats his wife, he steals money from his voters to buy a bigger house and luxury cars, he allowed terrorists to buy guns and ammonium nitrate and knowingly allowed them to take flying lessons, etc.

In America, he would keep his job.

But, if bad Morris, this guy who's alcoholic, wife-beater, corrupt politician, terrorists aider, etc.; if this bad Morris slept, one time, with a consenting adult, because they were both slightly drunk... In America, he would immediately be fired/ impeached/ prosecuted.

Welcome to America

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Thats *beep* If a politician beat his wife and assisted terrorists noone would support him or her.

Yes Gosling had a point about starting wars and *beep* and getting away with it but someone who beat his wife and assisted terrorists would be in jail or impeached immediatly provided the public knew about it.

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He's a guy with a libido. That's who he is. If you want to find a man in such a powerful position with that much 'integrity' after having been married for ages, best vote for a eunuch.


Spot on!






Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me

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of course he did.
he left molly alone with her problem (being pregnant). he knew she was catholic. he was afraid to lose fans if they learned about that. so he acted like a coward. why not stand up and help molly openly?! chicken.

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[deleted]

you have to make a difference between morris as a private person and morris in his job. he should not betray his wife but that is private.
he may still be a good politician and do good things for his country.

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[deleted]

Really? I wouldn't give one single flying fck about him cheating on his wife because I don't care about other people's personal matters, even if he's trying to personate the "good family guy" image. It doesn't matter for me if he's a married dude or if he's in a threesome with two gay midgets, only his opinions on things that affect my life do matter for me.

But I do understand why people would freak out with a politician cheating on his wife, of course, people give too much of a fck about the personal life of everyone nowadays. Politicians, celebrities, musicians, players, actors, you name it, they can't fart without at least 50,000 going "OMG, I can't believe he farted".

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[deleted]

cheating on your wife or on your family does not mean that you cheat on everyone.
there is always something people stay faithful to and ironically enough they are more faithful to their "art", their "work", hobbies, pets or whatever.
maybe morris would not be faithful to the americans as well but you cant assume that just because he betrayed his wife.

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[deleted]

How hard is it to grasp this? It shows he isn't honest. So all of the crap he promises during his campaign means dick when he's an obvious liar. So why would I believe him when he has proven to be a liar?


At some point you'll have to grow up a bit. The world isn't so black and white. People lie all the time. You lie. Does that make you a bad person? No. Does it make you incapable of being good at your job? No. Life is tough. If you want the perfectly honest man devoted to some code of morality, you might as well vote for a priest (but keep your fingers crossed and hope he didn't molest any altar boys).

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At some point you'll have to grow up a bit. The world isn't so black and white. People lie all the time. You lie. Does that make you a bad person? No. Does it make you incapable of being good at your job? No. Life is tough. If you want the perfectly honest man devoted to some code of morality, you might as well vote for a priest (but keep your fingers crossed and hope he didn't molest any altar boys).


I fully agree with you, I've met a lot of people who excel in their fields of activity while their personal life if a complete wreck. I do grasp the concept of a candidate's public image, but personally I would vote for a cheater if I consider him otherwise to be competent.

I wouldn't vote for Morris though, not because of the affair, but because of him chickening out and leaving Molly completely on her own afterwards. That, in my opinion, shows lack of character.

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This is one of the most hypocritical posts I've ever read.

If this guy was a fraud and a chicken who couldn't deal with Molly's problems, what makes you think he would buck up and handle more serious issues like foreign policy agendas, war crimes or tough economic situations any different?

In the face of an unwelcoming circumstance, a man who shows a lack of character in one instance is unlikely to show the opposite in the face of other unwelcoming circumstances.

In fact, the movie foreshadowed that with the way he handled Stephen being fired. He didn't do it himself and he didn't address the situation at all, he had Paul setup a ridiculous scenario to get Stephen fired. Morris showed a lack of character all the way around for every unwelcoming circumstance he encountered.

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He might be a good politician despite his failure as a husband and a family father, but you must realize that the fact that he did do what he did undermines his entire character. People vote for him because, like others have said, he profiled himself as an honest man who wanted what's best for everyone.

We know he wasn't an honest man, and he certainly only wanted what was best for himself, so how could you ever endorse him as a man to run a country? There are enough of those selfish dirt-bags around in politics already.

But I can see your point. If he did become president and kept his promises of removing America's dependency on oil, war, and so on, then from a utilitarian point of view he would have done good. But he probably wouldn't do any of those things.

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I think that what is important to remember here is that all that he claims to be in favor of, all that he claims to BE, are things designed to make him a more appealing candidate. He says he's a family man because it makes him more sympathetic to voters who have families. They identify with him more readily. But does being a family man (or woman) really matter in politics? I personally don't think so.

You (and others) make a very good point; if his "family man" status is just a smoke screen, is anything he says real? I personally would LOVE to see a politician who is divorced or single run for president...but they'd probably never get elected because for some reason people with families want their leaders to at least appear to be like them, married, preferably with children. Is that an important attribute for a candidate to have? Not to me...but then again I'm single and don't have kids.

On the other side of things, I'd be equally impressed by a politician who had an affair and then admitted to it. That person might have screwed up their personal life, but at least they had the decency and self-awareness to admit to it. It's all the lies and posturing that make me sick at my stomach.

I've got me git-finder set to pansy...

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I think that what is important to remember here is that all that he claims to be in favor of, all that he claims to BE, are things designed to make him a more appealing candidate. He says he's a family man because it makes him more sympathetic to voters who have families. They identify with him more readily. But does being a family man (or woman) really matter in politics? I personally don't think so.


This is the reason why I think that much of the American electorate is just flat out dumb and focuses on the most irrelevant things. A perfect example of this is when people say that they would vote for a politician because he seems like someone they could sit down and have a couple of beers with. Or that they would vote for a politician because they look better in photos than their opponent(s). Read polling results and see that these kinds of things actually play a very big role with voters. Completely ridiculous. I mean, I can relate to my friends and drink a beer with them but that doesn't mean for a second that I think that any of them are qualified to be president - but essentially this is what so many voters look at.

Jimmy Carter is by all accounts an exceptionally warm man and a great person - but a disaster as president.
George W Bush is by all accounts a great family man who is faithful to his wife and is the kind of guy one would want to have a beer with - but a disaster as president.

John F Kennedy was a famous adulterer and by extension not a "family man" - yet he is still revered president decades after his death.
Bill Clinton cheated on his wife, was caught, and then lied about it - yet he was still a better president than others who didn't fit the all important "family values" mold.

People want to know why the country has so many problems and why the politicians in office are so bad. Well the answer should be quite obvious - it's because the American electorate looks at politicians' (mostly) irrelevant private matters such as their family lives and finances as the most important thing while pushing other things, such as good policies and the ability to govern, as secondary.

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You really hit the nail on the head.

Just reading the following comments completely confirms what you're saying. Funny to see how people react when someone suggests that president could be in an open relationship or a swinger...

As if it had anything to do with the job he does for his country.



I also really liked the comment about the world not being black & white.


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You realize JFK was a disaster as President and only because of his affairs and philandering ways is he loved. The fool tried to cause WWIII.

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He might be a good politician despite his failure as a husband and a family father, but you must realize that the fact that he did do what he did undermines his entire character. People vote for him because, like others have said, he profiled himself as an honest man who wanted what's best for everyone.


Every politician sells integrity as part of his public image. Each one is either going to be a saint or a liar with the latter being a lot more probable.

Please forgive my cynicism but I just don't think people are generally that good. I don't think that they're that bad either. The world is very grey -- we take all the tough decisions in life where each one can have a bad result, combine it with all the hopes and dreams we have when we're young, our biological urges, disappointments, stress, fatigue, and we can only hope not to wrong anyone at the end of the day in such a position of power.

I think the president is all too often viewed as a symbol rather than a man and a job. There are legislative responsibilities, fiscal responsibilities, a required knowledge of foreign policy, and yet most of the time we're obsessed with character, personal habits, religious beliefs, 'integrity'.

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Blows my mind that no one sees a problem with this. It means he is a complete fraud since he portrayed himself as a man of integrity to the nation. If he can't even be trusted in his own home, how are the voters supposed to trust him? And here lies the problem...he was no different than any piece of scum politician though.


Almost all politicians portray themselves as people of integrity during these popularity contests. I'm pretty sure few of them actually have it. We seem to take it out really harshly though on the ones that get caught red-handed.

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I think the immplication was evident in the way the confrontation scene was lit - Clooney had a 5 o'clock shadow and looked so sinister!

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That is a very good point! I do tend to think that Clooney's character was all talk; he might have believed in the things he was saying at some point, but by that scene in the film he was as corrupt as the politician he didn't want to put on his cabinet.

I've got me git-finder set to pansy...

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I think the immplication was evident in the way the confrontation scene was lit - Clooney had a 5 o'clock shadow and looked so sinister!


Agreed, he did look sinister, sorta gave away that he was dirty at that point, if you still had any doubts he was.

"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna `*beep*` wit me!"- Hudson in Aliens.

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I though Morris didin't know that she's pregnant. She called him, and then when Morris tried to call her back, Meyers (Ryan Gosling) answered instead.

Afterwards, Meyers acted swiftly, firing her, giving her the money, etc., that Morris wouldn't have a chance to do anything to help her even if he knew.

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a man who cheats out his family will cheat out yours. simple logic.

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[deleted]

So, you're afraid he'd sleep with another country? (Please ignore the obvious metaphors just opened up)

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[deleted]

Maybe he values America more than his wife. I burnt my chicken, doesn't mean I will burn the house down. Idiot.

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[deleted]

That's mature. Especially from someone wondering how old the posters on this board are. And before you point out the obvious that the other poster resorted to name calling first, it does not matter. To be mature means you don't succumb to easy name calling.

I'd like to argue a simple point...assuming I can without being called names. How do you know he didn't tell his wife about any of it? How do you know it's not an open relationship? We were shown one scene between he and his wife. That's one scene where he was a "family man". In every other scene he was the politician. All we saw was his public persona, the one the voters saw. We know Stephen believed in him, in his ideals. Other than that all we really know about the guys is he is ambitious in his promises, he wants to win, he'll kill someone and happily go to jail, and he sleeps with interns. We know very little about his family life. He and his wife could be swingers for all we know. And would it really matter so long as the guy leads the country in the right direction?

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That's ridiculous - of course we don't 'know' but if you use common sense you know that anyone running for president would not be in an open relationship nor would they be swingers.

In an ideal world if they could run the country well then it wouldn't matter. But in the real world, they'd never win the election because who would vote for a swinger or a president who has an open relationship with his wife? What you said is sounding more and more ridiculous to me the more I type.

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Because Obama would never have been President if that was the case. While running for Senate, in his bag of dirty tricks, he got a sealed divorce document opened showing his opponent and ex-wife were swingers. Guess what. It destroyed Jack Ryan who at the time was married to Jeri Ryan, better known as Seven of Nine on Star Trek Voyager.

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No, but in that case I probably wouldn't want you cooking for me either.

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If he doesn't care about his own wife and even lies to his own wife then why would he care about any of us or tell any of us the truth? Why is this so hard to realize?


It's completely irrelevant. If a man cheats on his wife, that doesn't mean he doesn't love his children, e.g. It makes him a bad husband, not a bad father. Things become even more abstract when it comes to the job of being a president.

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That has nothing to do with logic. It's just an unsubstantiated inference.

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Look what happened with Ashton Kutcher. He got a lot of bad PR and he's just an actor. Not a politican that lives for PR.


Avatar = Worldwide: $2,782,275,172

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I heard it put this way once: If you're a public figure, then you're accountable for your personal life. Sure, having an affair with a 20-year-old intern may be a personal matter, but politicians and celebrities showcase their personal lives all the time. They can hardly squawk when the media stumbles onto something less than savoury because that's just hypocritical, and doesn't the public have a right to know if the most powerful person in the country is a hypocrite?

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He would lose his characterization as a man of integrity, the only kind of person you would want as your president. You can explain a war and people, smart people who make money out of it and dumb people will believe you, but you can't explain why you are a liar and a cheat. Anyone who was ever lied to and cheated on will vote against you. It's all about the votes. It's a crazy world we live in.

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