But Rhaenyra is bi at best, she was molested by her uncle, she became so horny she had sex with her guard.
Then later Alicent's reaction was so much like she was being 2 timed, Rhaenyra lied by swearing on her mother's name, too much like a cheating husband.
There was something between these 2, but they probably never going to spell it out for us.
First of all, she wasn't molested. She is not a child. In terms of emotional maturity a 17 years old medieval princess is at least 34l5 in modern Western years.
And it's not all about sex. Al was something enormously more important than a crush for her. She was her only friend.
When it is her uncle, when she was inexperienced, I think molested is the right word.
You tend to be honest with your BFF, but you lie to your girlfriend.
Rhaenyra lied on her mother's name.
The reason we have strict laws about sex with minors is because we live in an unprecedentedly safe society in which people have the luxury to mature late.
In this situation the danger often comes from people a child trusts: family, teachers, figures of authority.
That's not the case here.
For starters, while Westeros morals are not dissimilar to Abrahamic religions, the Valyrians are vastly different culturally. And they are a tiny minority obsessed with their heritage and purity of their bloodlines. There is nothing shocking or perverted for her to be kissed by her uncle.
And being sexually inexperienced for her doesn't mean the same as for a modern 17 years old girl. It's just lack of skill - that's all.
You saw the tournament in episode 1. People died around her since she was a child and there was always danger and intrigues.
She's no innocent.
She was a princess, the heir to the throne, there were no sexual advances, there were only marriage proposals.
She was old enough, but that does not mean she learned how to handle that, she is not some modern girl with sex education since preschool.
I bet she was never liquored up and taken advantage of, and I think that is exactly what Daemon did.
That is why I used the word "molest", but I have no problem if you don't think that.
You treat sexuality as something mystical. It's not.
Again, lack of experience does not equal emotional immaturity.
But did she?
Did Daemon actually penetrate her? Or was just some petting and then she didn't lie at all.
The lie was "Daemon never touched me", which we know that was not true, because we are talking about penetration here.
As for if there was vaginal penetration, there are opinions on both sides.
Well, a lot of people use that more metaphorical than literal.
I mean, really? Daemon NEVER touched her? Not even a hug when she was a child???
Of course technically that is NOT true, but it's not meant to be taken as literal ...
I think we both know they were talking about the touching of sexual nature, again we were just talking about penetration.
a lot of people use that more metaphorical than literal.
SPOILERS
Well maybe there was something sexual between Rhaenyra and Alicent and maybe there wasn't. I don't know maybe they were an item in the book but I haven't read it. In the show there is no clear evidence that either of them are bisexual or that Alicent is a lesbian. Yes she was uninterested in having sex with Viserys but most likely she doesn't fancy him.
And Rhaenyra wasn't molested by her Uncle. He made sexual advances to her and she responded in kind. The only reason he didn't fuck her was because he stopped. It seems Matt Daemon isn't a total bastard, just half a bastard perhaps. And you have to remember that the Targaryens do have a track record of incest.
So when Rhaenyra said to Alicent that she didn't have sex with Matt Daemon she was telling the truth. Of course she didn't go on to say that she did have sex with her bodyguard Ser Christ on Coal. Fair enough because that would possibly be a death sentence or something else extremely unpleasant for him as well as most likely having unpleasant consequences for herself.
So when Rhaenyra said to Alicent that she didn't have sex with Matt Daemon she was telling the truth.
In the strict literal sense of the word you are right but Rhaenyra didn't mean it that way. When she said Matt Daemon never touched her she meant they didn't have sex.
Sure she is down playing what did happen but that's because there will be a lot of trouble if people find out she did have sex with Ser Christ on Coal. The last thing she wants is for someone to call for a virginity test on her.
You are speculating, and I don't even believe that was true.
From the beginning to end Rhaenyra was trying to lie about it, trying to find out what information they had on her, the line "Must I truely refute that" was very sneaky, clearly she was trying to dodge that question. After she couldn't she went all out.
So she was not just technically lying, from the beginning to end she intended to lie.
I am speculating ? What do you think you are doing with your "Rhaenyra and Alicent were lovers" line?
Of course Rhaenyra was lying her head off. There is a lot at stake here ! But she didn't lie about not having sex with Matt Daemon. You are just being pig headed about it by shifting the conversation to "Oh but she did lie about him not touching her !"
No, you are not thinking. If people are going to lie they tend to go all out, why just say Daemon did not have sex with her, because that could go into further details, like "what did you mean by that?". So she wanted to stop the line of inquiry right there, so she said they were not even touching.
You are just being pig headed
You insist that Rhaenyra and Alicent were lovers and want to make a big deal out of it even though there is no evidence for it. You insist that it is a big deal that Rhaenyra "lied" when she said that Matt Daemon never touched ( sorry "molested" ) her even though she was clearly talking about having sex. Not only are you being pig headed you are talking shit.
The thought did cross my mind of few times that Alicent and Rhae might be gay for each other. Especially when the camera kept going back to King Viserys on top of Alicent during Rhae's sex scene.
But I don't think so, the conversation they had when Alicent was confronting Rhae would have been a lot different. Instead of "you're a princess, you shouldn't do that" it would have been more like "what about us, I love you Rhae".
It's fine that you hope they're lesbians, I'm sure it would be hot to witness these two getting it on, but don't get your hopes up. They're straight.
And no, Daemon did not molest Rhae. It was consensual sex. Targaryens are known for their incestuous behavior. Game of Thrones was the same way. There are incestuous encounters in GoT as well. Did you watch GoT?
Where did you see Daemon and Rhaenyra having sex?
Only saw them kissing each other and then he went away.
But perhaps they show a different version here?
With the rest what you said I agree.
Alicent and Rhaenyra are / were friends, not lovers.
If you watch the scene again, Rhae's pants are down and this is very clear in the scene right after Daemon walks away, they show a full body shot of Rhae and yes, her pants are off. There was a short amount of thrusting too. I think he penetrated her but pulled out and walked off. Now, the question is, did he finish quickly? If she gets preggors, who will be the father of her kid, Criston Cole or Daemon? or will she drink the tea to prevent this pregnancy?
The plot just took off in my opinion. This episode might be when the story really begins.
Watched the scene again.
Yes, he pulls her pants down and definitely wants it but then he changed his mind.
Leastwise this is how I interprete it.
By the story Daemon becomes Rhaenyra's 2nd husband.
Perhaps he didn't want to make her his cheap whore there in the brothel?
I haven't read the books so, I am not sure what actually happens. But as far as intrigue goes, this was the best episode so far.
We'll see how it plays out. Maybe they did it, maybe not.
Oh, I'm not a book purist.
Twists are fine with me, makes it even more interesting.
And more dragons, please! 🐉 🐲 🐉
It is not I hope they are lesbians, it is just their behaviours together are not normal between friends. How do you think Alicent should act if she was Rhaenyra's friend? Why was she so upset if Rhaenyra had sex with Daemon?
I think a friend would act concerned and ask Rhaenyra if she was OK. The first instinct of a friend should be if Rhaenyra did all that, how should her as a friend help Rhaenyra to cover it up or get through it.
Now think what Alicent did? Was that normal for a friend?
Daemon did not molest Rhae. It was consensual sex.
I think you have to consider that Alicent and Rhae have known each other since they were kids. So, it's really not that unusual that they would have a deep conversation over this.
And she is basically a queen now, she is well versed in what's proper for a princess and what is not proper. But maybe she doesn't know that incest is somewhat common among Targaryens. Her reaction was a bit over-the-top but maybe she found it distasteful for them to engage in incestuous behavior. Still, I am not quite sure what Alicent's motives are, or if she is trying to gain something from this. Maybe she just simply thinks it's weird what Rhae did.
But if they were hot for each other, I think we would have known it by now. It's been 4 episodes and nothing has indicated that the two have them were/are lovers.
Either way, I can only conclude that these two are just very close but not lesbians.
And in regards to molesting and sex while drinking... you're using our world and current laws as a measuring stick for this topic. This is a story based on a purely fictional time and place. There are no laws regarding drunken sex in Westeros that I'm aware of.
In this world, what Dameon did would not be considered a crime unless you look at the laws concerning the princess. Which is one thing this story is partially about. Why can't a woman be free to sleep with whomever she pleases? Sure, she is a princess but is it fair for her to have to marry some old guy with a castle simply because her name makes her "royalty" and therefore, she can only choose an unworthy mate in her mind.
Again, her behavior was an act of rebellion but at the same time, her situation has forced her to become unpredictable. Like in the previous episode, when she got on her horse and rode off into the forest, then came back to the camp with blood all over her face.
Obviously, this part of the story is about her wrestling with her situation.
Her reaction was a bit over-the-top but maybe she found it distasteful for them to engage in incestuous behavior.
you're using our world and current laws as a measuring stick for this topic. This is a story based on a purely fictional time and place. There are no laws regarding drunken sex in Westeros that I'm aware of.
Why are you using today's standards? Are you trying to make some kind of moral point?
We all know what the sex laws are concerning alcohol and incest in our world. Of course, judging by what we saw in this episode, I don't think very many people would consider this "molestation". She 100% consented to it. And I'm not so sure she was drunk. She took a few drinks and whatnot but she wasn't drinking the whole time, kind of like what she's done throughout the entire series, she'll have the occasional drink.
I think Rhae is a moderate drinker but not looking to get drunk.
Like I later added "Even during that time, an older man gets a young maiden drunk and takes her to a brothel and try to have sex with her. How would you describe it?"
share If they're both drinking, I personally would call it consensual sex.
If one's sole purpose was to get someone drunk so they could have sex with them, I would call it rape. However, there is a pretty big problem with this analysis.
Alcohol doesn't cause you to lose your faculties, unless you drink enough to black out, you are well aware of what's going on around you. Alcohol just simply loosens your inhibitions.
It's not like giving someone a Quaalude or what they call a "date rape drug" and waiting for them to pass out. There is a pretty big difference between the two.
But you've got to say in that scenario, even during that time, everyone would blame Daemon, none would say good things about him.
Scoundrel or low life would probably be used, molest would definitely be one of the words being used to describe what happened.
Of course if he were a commoner, stoning might not be out of question.
We've known Daemon is a scoundrel from the beginning. But do I care he attempted to have sex with Rhae? Not really....
And it's not surprising that Rhae got it going with him. She doesn't like the way her father is treating her and what is the best way to piss him off?? Sleep with Daemon or anyone to be honest.
I think Rhae is a moderate drinker but not looking to get drunk.
People lose their virginity in different ways. Most of us don't choose a marriage and a romantic wedding night to lose it.
In fact, There are plenty of men/teenage guys that will lose their virginity to a hooker. I can't say it's all that outrageous for her to lose her virginity in this fashion. She's already displayed wildly unpredictable behavior in the previous episodes. Besides, we don't know for sure that Rhae and Daemon had sex.
Again, you don't understand the story at this point. Her situation is "forcing" her to make irrational decisions. It's like when an angry father gets upset at his daughter for dating someone he doesn't approve of, and he slaps her for doing it. What do you think her reaction is going to be?
She is most likely going to keep dating the guy.... why? Because he doesn't slap her.
People lose their virginity in different ways. Most of us don't choose a marriage and a romantic wedding night to lose it.
Ummm, and your point is what exactly? You asked the question, I gave an answer. Do I think Rhae should behave and marry some old guy that has a fancy castle? Sure, why not... but then we don't have a TV show if she does this.
This is the main plot of the story. It's all about the struggle between Rhae and the rules when it comes to how a princess is supposed to fall in line and "do it for the realm" as they say.
It's obvious that Rhae doesn't like the conventional rules set for her and is most likely going to rebel every chance she gets.
So again, unless you're trying to make some kind of morality statement, I don't quite get your point.