MovieChat Forums > Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021) Discussion > Does the film address certain social iss...

Does the film address certain social issues? (spoilers)

posted 3 years ago by joej2923 (3021)
35 replies | jump to latest

Does this film advocate for the abolition of prisons? I've heard that spider-man has to try to reform the various villains instead of trying to incarcerate them? There is apparently a restorative justice movement that wants to treat criminals instead of imprisoning them. I am of the opinion that criminals need to be LOCKED UP before they eventually kill someone.

I haven't seen the film yet but I thought the first two were just ok. I hear good things about this one BUT I am concerned about the social justice messaging of this movie. Are the makers of the film trying to brainwash children with a restorative justice message?

https://wagingnonviolence.org/2021/12/the-new-spider-man-movie-is-a-lesson-in-restorative-justice/ ** Movie analysis **

https://www.morningsidecenter.org/teachable-moment/lessons/prison-abolition-and-restorative-justice ** Restorative Justice WOKENESS **

[–] MonStar (12896) 3 years ago

Most replies to this would likely SPOIL the film for you. If you saw the first two films, you know that two intelligent people became super villains by accident. This film tries to undo the accident.

Go see this before someone SPOILS it for you.

[–] PaladinNJ (21509) 3 years ago

Go see the movie and you'll understand.

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 3 years ago

It's more that Spider-Man tries to help them because if he doesn't he'll be sending most of them back to their deaths in their respective universes. Not only that, but in certain cases like that of Doc Ock and Green Goblin, they're bad because they've got something mentally wrong with them. Goblin is crazy due to the serum he took and Ock is crazy because his inhibitor chip got busted. I don't really think it's a message the movie is trying to get across as much as it is who Spider-Man is as a character.

Sure some criminals can't be helped, but if they can be, they should be. Not everyone who's a criminal is going to hurt or kill anyone. A lot of people are in prison for non-violent crimes and for those who are, it really depends on the context. It's not right just to lump all criminals together without knowing what they did and why.

[–] TandyMan (11096) 3 years ago

I was a little disappointed that they didn't explore Electro a little more, in that he actually wanted to be villain, he wanted to have the power and mess stuff up, he wasn't mentally unhinged by circumstance. It would have been an interesting counterpoint to the others that you can't reform them all. But that of course would have been terribly problematic given his black casting. They touched on it a little bit but in the end, he just decided to be a nice normal guy just because. I felt the film should have handled that a bit more "well you can't win em all" like.

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 3 years ago

Yeah I can definitely agree with that. But after he's cured, he's mostly harmless compared to what he was.

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

If you take a school shooters gun away hes mostly harmless too. Should we just send him back to school?

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 3 years ago

No. Nor did I say anything similar about Electro.

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

Right, bu the movie did. The message of "lets cure them and everything will be alright" was pushed pretty hard.

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 3 years ago

It was more like "lets cure them so they don't all die".

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

Have you considered that supervillians who are usually worse than serial killers perhaps deserve to die. Especially since they literally died trying to kill people in this case.

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 3 years ago

No I haven't, because supervillains aren't real. On top of that, they're not nearly as dangerous without their powers. They should still be punished, but I don't think they deserve to die. Plus, not all of them died trying to kill people. What Doc Ock was doing would've killed people, but he wasn't trying to kill anyone. Lizard never died, but he wasn't trying to kill anyone either. Nor was Sandman. Only two out of the five villains were trying to kill anyone.

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

Lizard was trying to force everyone into becoming lizards through poisoning their water supply or something like that. Doc Ock was trying to find a power source, but when his experiment failed and he was shut down he just went "fuck safety ill do it anyway" and was actively killing anyone that got into his way.

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 3 years ago

You said they died TRYING to kill people though. In neither of those instances were they actually trying to kill anyone.

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

If you drive 90 km/h on a pavement your goal may not be trying to kill people but you are obviously going to.

[–] MonStar (12896) 3 years ago

You should DELETE this post, since you just SPOILED the film for the OP, who has not seen it!

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 3 years ago

If he was really worried about spoilers, he shouldn't have asked this question. He even put "(spoilers)" in the title. Not only that, but what exactly did I spoil? If you saw the Raimi trilogy, you'd know about Goblin and Ock. Them being sent back to their deaths is also something mentioned in the trailer. I haven't spoiled anything that hasn't been common knowledge.

[–] FilmBuff (7234) 3 years ago

I mean, the OP is an Obvious Troll, so...

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

You should delete this comment and stop going to a movie board meant for discussing a movie if you dont want people to actually talk about the movie.

[–] Crocodile (3127) 3 years ago

Its actually more an anti cancel culture movie!

[–] joej2923 (3021) 3 years ago

I've seen more links about restorative justice instead of cancel culture. I guess it's fine if it's an enjoyable movie but I don't like subversive messages that can change the minds of people on important issues. The No Way Home movie is PG-13 so a lot of young people will go and they might decide that incarceration is unusually cruel after watching this movie. I probably wouldn't be able to finish this movie since I support both incarceration and the death penalty. I can understand some people's opposition to incarceration but some sort of a three strikes rule should be in place for habitual offenders.

https://www.nj.com/opinion/2022/01/a-lesson-from-spider-man-for-new-jerseys-broken-youth-justice-system-opinion.html

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

>I guess it's fine if it's an enjoyable movie but I don't like subversive messages that can change the minds of people on important issues.

Well, thats like, all art ever? The Sistine Chappel paintings was subversive message meant to change religiuos peoples minds.

[–] joej2923 (3021) 3 years ago

I disagree that all art is subversive since there are plenty of beautiful paintings of landscapes that lack a political message. There might have been a few odd images in the Sistine Chapel but there were 300 figures painted in the Sistine Chapel. The Pope paid for the Sistine Chapel paintings and I don't believe the artists would want to offend the Pope.

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

Michelangelo, who was forced to do the Sistine Chapel, hated the pope.

You can read more detail here: https://artcrimearchive.net/2021/02/22/subversive-messages-in-the-sistine-chapel/

[–] joej2923 (3021) 3 years ago

That site looks like BS to me. These yahoos started their website ten years ago and I could probably get an article published by them.

Art can be interpreted in many ways. People can find their own meaning in various works. Like I said, there were over 300 figures painted in the Sistine Chapel so there could have been some weird ones in there.

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

If you dont like that site just google it yourself, youll find plenty of historical evidence.

[–] jlam888 (625) 3 years ago

The "We can't send them back, they're gonna die" seems to point more to the modern refugee issue...

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

How does it do so? The modern migrant crysis has no impending doom if they were to be sent back. If anything, the 2021 Poland border crisis has shown they are nothing but economic migrants.

[–] jlam888 (625) 3 years ago

I agree way too many of them take advantage of the naivety of Western Europe, but the scriptwriters may very well have had that symbolism in mind - bleeding heart.

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

Right, i forgot both the scripwritters worked on the Snaders campaign, their worldview is very socialist.

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

Yes. It beats you over the head with it. And its as sucessful in doing it as the batman movies. Joker wouldnt have escaped form prison for the 12th time and killed a bunch of people if only batman stopped being a jerk and killed him.

[–] joej2923 (3021) 3 years ago

That's what I thought. I'm a believer in locking up the criminals so I'm disappointed that this restorative justice philosophy is appearing in mainstream movies.

Batman wanted to avoid being a vigilante so he usually handed over the criminals to law enforcement. Commissioner Gordon even summoned Batman with the bat signal for help with serious criminals. Batman was a vigilante in his early years but I thought his story changed over the years with different writers. I've mainly watched the Batman shows/movies but I've read some of the comics.

[–] Strazdas (2472) 3 years ago

I think crimes should get a punishment thats appropriate. You smoked some weed? sure have a fine instead of 15 years in jail. You robbed someone - you get some jail time. You're a serial killer? Off to a guillotine with you.

[–] joej2923 (3021) 3 years ago

We at least agree on serial killers. I definitely think weed laws should be enforced but there are plenty of people who disagree. There is a link between marijuana use and psychosis/violence. I posted some links about it on the politics thread and the general board dopes had an interesting debate.

https://moviechat.org/bd0000082/Politics/62474b55a19d656cf17b70ac/REEFER-MADNESS?reply=624754f8a19d656cf17b7118

https://moviechat.org/general/General-Discussion/624caed47cd228487c2f1a0d/I-hate-when-people-say-that-pot-is-safe

[–] Razor187 (55) a month ago

Oh yes, more than you realize. The means of that reforming? A vaccine. Everyone who takes their vaccine is good, everyone who doesn’t is bad. Gee, I wonder if the movie is trying to tell me something.

Or consider how the whole story is about how trying to maintain a status quo and make things great again causes major problems.

[–] joej2923 (3021) a month ago

I eventually saw it and did find the nostalgia to be enjoyable. I still consider it to be woke due to its social justice message. I just want a Toby Maguire sequel and it would be cool if he could do movies with Venom.

The popularity of this movie did jumpstart the multiverse movies so we had multiple Batmans/Flashes and multiple Deadpools.