Well, if you want a "proper" cast for a "proper" film about the early late 12th/early 13th century England, then you should cast French-speaking actors as John Lackland, Richard the Lionheart, Queen Eleanor, and all the (Norman) nobility. Because they all spoke FRENCH as their first language, and probably didn't even speak English.
Eleanor was from Aquitaine - that's the South of France.
Her husband Henry II was from Anjou - again, France.
Henry's mother Mathilda (Empress Maud) was the daughter of Henry I, king of England, and granddaughter of William the Conqueror - but the Normans all spoke French as their first language, too.
French was the main language of English royals and court from 1066 until almost the end of the 14th century. Henry IV is believed to have been the first king of England who spoke English, and Richard III in 1480s was the first to publish official government documents in English.
The common folk in the movie could speak English. Though in reality the English they spoke was Middle English, which was nothing like the modern English (and since it was about 150 years after the Norman Conquest and some 180 years before Chaucer wrote "Canterbury Tales", it was probably closer to Old English than to Chaucer's language)... so obviously, complete accuracy would be really impractical. Needless to say, discussing the actors' accents would then be completely irrelevant.
reply
share
pol-edra
9 years ago
The Normans spoke Anglo-Norman, which is one form of Old French and has just as much or as little to do with modern French as with modern English, so casting French-speakers instead of English-speakers wouldn't change much in terms of authenticity. Eleanor's French however was Occitan, which is an entirely different sort of French which has very little to do with modern French. I don't see how language-based casting can be of any help in making the movie more "proper". It would however be interesting to watch a movie in which the actors were coached into speaking the actual languages their characters were supposed to have spoken. It would not necessarily make the movie either good or bad, but it would be an interesting experiment.
"Occasionally I'm callous and strange."
reply
share
ivanac-01225
9 years ago
As opposed to insisting that British actors play the characters because... they have the right accents? (Which obviously were many centuries away from even existing.) They have the right DNA? What exactly?
What you claim isn't true anyway. Anglo-Norman has far more in common with modern French than it has with modern English. Other variants of French also have more in common with modern French than they do with modern English (as you'd expect).
But no one is asking for the actors to speak the languages as existed in that time period. I'm not the one who started a thread asking for a "proper" cast, whatever that means, and insiting that only a British cast is a proper cast. You don't see how language-based casting would make the movie more "proper"? Please tell me how a passport-based casting would make a movie more proper? If the OP is not basing their ideas of what's a "proper" casting on linguistic issues (such as accents), what are they basing them on? What exactly makes British actors more "proper" to play people like Eleanor of Aquitaine, king John or Richard the Lionheart?
reply
share
pol-edra
9 years ago
I'm not sure I understand everything you're saying in your post (especially the many questions at the beginning, "as opposed to..."...? as what opposed to what? I don't know which part of my post you were reacting to exactly so I'm sorry I can't comment further). But here's what I can say to try and make things clearer.
Yes, Anglo-Norman looks more like modern French than modern English. In terms of pronunciation however, as far as I know, it's very different both from modern French and from modern English, and my point was, although I evidently didn't make that clear, that there is absolutely no reason why a French actor today would sound more genuinely Norman than an English one.
I have no idea what the OP means by a "proper" casting, and my opinion is absolutely not that a "passport-based casting" is of any worth in terms of authenticity.
"Occasionally I'm callous and strange."
reply
share