MovieChat Forums > Source Code (2011) Discussion > Has nothing to do with Alternate Univers...

Has nothing to do with Alternate Universes

posted 13 years ago by rollexx
69 replies | jump to latest

Nope, I can't believe that Source Code not a simulation of Sean's short term memory track, because that's how they programmed it. Its just a computer program, and computer programs do not make alternate universes.

The only reason to believe that it actually created alternate universes is that his simulated life continued on after his life is terminated, meaning a universe must continue beyond this computer simulation.

This can only be explained by:

1) Plot hole, thus inexplicable. Director just trying to make the movie more complicated than it is, and in doing so it allows for viewers to make their own conclusions about the ending, just as we are right now.

2) "The brain is like that. It's electromagnetic field remains charged just briefly even after death. Circuits remain open."

This is a quote from the movie from the Doctor as he explains how the Source Code can work. Just like they are using Sean's brain and memory after he is dead, Colter's brain and memory can still continue on even after life is terminated, but only briefly.

3) The entire movie has some supernatural, external forces - such as Fate. In the last scene, they visit Cloud Gate, the reflective sphere thing. So this alternative universe ending was fated to occur, in which case I will believe alternate universes happened (albeit supernaturally).

[–] fudgenuts101 12 years ago

LOOK UP STRING THEORY

It explains the whole damn film

[–] sudderth1027 12 years ago

How does string theory explain the movie?

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] remembervhs 12 years ago

I think you guys missed it. He essentially takes over Sean Fentriss's life. At least that's what I understood from the movie. Kind of creepy, really.

[–] remembervhs 12 years ago

Basically there are two interpretations of the ending as I see it.

A. There is one universe. He went back in time, assumed Sean's life, prevented the attacks, and continues to live in that reality.

B. There are many (infinite?) universes. He was "inserted" into one of them in place of Sean. In this universe, the attack did not occur. The clip with Goodwin getting the text was taken from this universe while the ORIGINAL universe continues forward, in which the train attack occurred but the nuclear attack did not.

I assume it's explanation B. Assuming B is correct, it's all kind of meaningless because there are infinite universes and in plenty of them both bombs probably went off and in plenty of them there isn't life on earth or even a planet earth to begin with. I guess it's a happy ending for Capt. Stevens of that particular universe, though at the cost of Sean Fentriss in that particular universe.

[–] Insomniatic102 10 years ago

Or C. it's all in his head. There's no time travel, or alternate universes. The scientists are right, its just a simulation. As soon as his brain is done dying, the new life he had will end.

[–] howard_w13 10 years ago

Or C. it's all in his head. There's no time travel, or alternate universes. The scientists are right, its just a simulation. As soon as his brain is done dying, the new life he had will end.

HUH?!? 

If it all in his head then doesn't that pretty much negate the whole movie? 

--------
The movie has a plot hole?!?
EVERY FRIGGIN' MOVIE HAS A FRIGGIN' PLOT HOLE!!!!!

[–] mawriz 12 years ago

I agree. Parallel universe has nothing to do with commandeering a person's being and transplanting another's into it. The only way it is possible for them to do this is if in fact it was a simulation/echo.

Parallel universe means every action we make in which there are multiple possibilities all happen simultaneously but will branch out in parallel alternate realities with infinite possibilities. If I was choosing what college degree to take between Computer Science, Photography, Philosophy, all these will happen and there will be a version of me that took each one of those degrees. There will be a version that Germany won the war, or John Lennon is still alive. But I cannot transplant my consciousness to another being.

And if it was indeed a simulation/echo it is not possible for Captain Stevens to continue living his life in another person's body in an alternate reality. The 2 explanations are as the OP said is if it was a supernatural afterlife or heaven, or an 8-minute echo after his plug was pulled by Goodwin. If the latter is the case, then Captain Stevens only thought he would be able to continue living this life when in fact it was doomed to end in 8 minutes.

[–] Villbass 12 years ago

Some of this has already been mentioned. But I wrote this on another site, so I thought i'd just post it here also :)

My theory is just parallel universes, alternate reality, or a second dimension (and third, fourth and so on). And no time travel. Every time he goes into Source Code, he enters a new dimension or a new alternate reality, that they BELIVE cant be changed, because they think it's only a simulation (maybe not the Doctor. He knows something I think) because nothing really changes about what happens in the first dimension. They are only using it to get information to prevent further things to happen, if they get the information in time.

First dimension: everyone at the train dies, they get the INFORMATION through Source Code from another dimension to stop the next explosion. Thats all they can achieve in the first dimension, and also repeated through the whole film. Then Goodwin sends him back one more time and then lets him die.

Last dimension: He saves the girl and the world, calls he's dad like he never got the chance to in the first dimension before he died, and also sends the message to Goodwin in that same dimension that same day (not to the first dimension). Telling her all about that Source Code is really working in a way they never would have expected and that she is gonna tell Steves that "everything's going to be all right" instead of what he was told in his dimension, about being dead and so on. So everything in that last part is really happening in another dimension where everyone was saved. And in that dimension Source Code is just going prove it self in another "project". Because like it says in the message from Stevens (Sean) and the information we get in that scene, everything IS prevented that day in that universe.

And that image of the metal thing on the plaza that flashes every time he goes into Source Code, that we see in the end. Where he also asks "Do you believe in destiny?" Could point to that in this dimension or alternate reality , this was meant to happen by the choices that where made in this reality and therefore he also had the flashes/memory about this when he was going in and out of new realties. So now he will just continue to live Sean's destiny in this dimension or alternate universe.

Of course there could be a lot of holes in my theory, and also the script of this movie, but i'd just thought i'd share it with you :)

Anyway, an really awesome movie!

Thomas

[–] betelgeuse-6 12 years ago

It becomes evident that the originator of the source code doesn't know all there is to know about his fledgling project:

COLTER
Why can't I save those people on
the train?

RUTLEDGE
Think of it like this: events in
our past can never be undone.
Einstein proved that.

COLTER
So...

RUTLEDGE
So Source Code opens up another
past for you. A parallel past. It
looks the same but it has no
intersection with our own world.
In essence, by sending you back, an
entirely new but utterly parallel
world is created. It looks
identical to ours, but nothing you
do there has any effect on this
reality.
[ At last some useful information. Colter races to process it.]

COLTER
What happens to the Source Code
world after I leave it?

RUTLEDGE
I don't know. You can never know
that because you're not there to
observe it. Maybe it vanishes.
Maybe not.

Sounds a lot like alternate universes to me.
Each choice creates a new universe.

That's why, by the end, Colter sees things and lives things in the code that are beyond what Rutledge could have imagined. This is quantum physics; don't expect it to make sense in any way we can comprehend.

[–] greatshash-421-225085 12 years ago

Or maybe a better explanation is that the Source Code ALLOWS him to ACCESS another parallel universe, and not create it ?

Parallel universes might exist, in infinite numbers. And each time, he's going into one of these via source code.

[–] rl-10 12 years ago

I dont think he accesses anything at first.

The laws of quantum mechanics say anything is possible but only certain when you measure it.

Here we have a quantum computer of some sort running a simulation to figure out a problem. We do not know that this problem is real, we just know that a quantum computer has been given a problem that it must solve. There are two quantum realities in this film, one being a simulation and one being reality.

If we can not be certain of an outcome until it is measured, it is possible that every possibility figured out by this computer in its simulated world, is only possible because of the ACTUAL possible realities of the world it exists in. Chicken and egg, or both...

In other words, theres no train, no bomb, no survivers when we start the film. Then after a bunch of interations, we come closer to finding out who did it... but it does not mean in reality, anyone did it at all. In fact, it may have only been in 1 reality that it actually does happen, and the computer figures out who, just as reality itself creates the entire scenario in real life by quantum mechanics.

Think of it this way, anything and everything is possible, including everything you saw in the movie... because once you see it, its what happened. That means all the other possibilities still exist... but at the end we see 1 of the possibilities and that is the one we accept. None of these events have to be even linked. Nothing in the film states that this is all a continuous universe. These are just possible outcomes... and the one we end the film on, is just one reality where a human/computer was able to solve a crime before it ever happened in reality. A reality it had no idea would EVER happen. But given enough variables and enough CODE, it would eventually predict an outcome of reality... and by the laws of quantum mechanics, you can predict an outcome, but you can not be certain until it happens and you measure it. So yes, a human/computer through a quantum mechanics simulation, predicted every aspect of reality to the point that it finally happened, and it was observed and avoided.

[–] spamzz 12 years ago

jake gillenhall became a ghost in the machine. he is now the source code, and because the source code is a very powerful computer and he lives in this computer, he is able to connect through it, and through other computers and send emails.

[–] Milkyway123 11 years ago

Does anyone know where this dialog comes from? This is not in the film. A deleted scene?

by - betelgeuse-6 on Tue Nov 13 2012 16:51:21
It becomes evident that the originator of the source code doesn't know all there is to know about his fledgling project:

COLTER
Why can't I save those people on
the train?

RUTLEDGE
Think of it like this: events in
our past can never be undone.
Einstein proved that.

COLTER
So...

RUTLEDGE
So Source Code opens up another
past for you. A parallel past. It
looks the same but it has no
intersection with our own world.
In essence, by sending you back, an
entirely new but utterly parallel
world is created. It looks
identical to ours, but nothing you
do there has any effect on this
reality.
[ At last some useful information. Colter races to process it.]

COLTER
What happens to the Source Code
world after I leave it?

RUTLEDGE
I don't know. You can never know
that because you're not there to
observe it. Maybe it vanishes.
Maybe not.

Sounds a lot like alternate universes to me.
Each choice creates a new universe.

That's why, by the end, Colter sees things and lives things in the code that are beyond what Rutledge could have imagined. This is quantum physics; don't expect it to make sense in any way we can comprehend.

[–] rumipoet24 11 years ago

excellent post

[–] nogard64 12 years ago

yeah I agree I can't believe people on here would think the movie was supernatural and created alternate universes, really makes me wonder how stupid people are these days. The movie is about a recording device that is able to replay through simulation a specific time span over and over. So Jake is just plugged in like in the matrix and re living this recorded HOUR over and over until he can solve who blew up the train, its all imaginary, nothing really occurs but inside the simulation and in their heads like a dream.

Come on people, get with the program.

http://hemestate.blogspot.com/

-things I write on IMDB may come from my blog

[–] smerph 12 years ago

It has EVERYTHING to do with alternate universes as this was precisely Duncan Jones' intention. Jeffrey Wright's character is either unaware of what the Source Code is or he's not telling the truth.

Don't agree with this? I don't care. The director's opinion over-rules yours!

[–] sdtony42 12 years ago

How can you possibly think the movie is NOT about parallel universes. It makes zero sense if its all just a simulation.

If it was just a re-Creation of Sean's Memory, then Coulter would not be able to discover any information that Sean didn't already know.

He wouldn't have been able to find the bomb because Sean never found the bomb.

He wouldn't have been able to get the bombers license plate because Sean never read the license plate.

Parallel universes is the only thing that fits with the information given in the movie. Coulter is able to find out all this new information and find the bomber because he is in an alternate reality that would have been exactly the same(just hours behind) as the one he came from.

The fact that its an alternate reality is only further supported at the end with him sending an email to the Goodwin of the new reality he's in. The bomb never goes in the last reality so there are two versions of Coulter in this reality. One inhabiting Sean's body and one sitting on ice in Nevada waiting for another disaster to strike so they can activate source code.

If you think about it there could be a 100 different Coulters in this last reality. Each of them having stopped a disaster and now inhabiting somebody else body. I realize its kind of a mind *beep* but if you can wrap your brain around the concept it makes perfect sense.

[–] sad_antoine 12 years ago

It's not a simulation. Colter initially thinks it is a simulation but it becomes clear throughout the movie that it is a completely fleshed out "reality" where unknown, otherwise unknowable information from the past can be retrieved. No computer will ever be able to do that.

He is, in a sense, leaping into a moment in the actual past, but the moment he is there to observe it, he starts to affect it, so it can no longer be described as the past. But the information there, not just from within the mind of Fentress, or the minds of the other people who died, but the whole UNIVERSE, is exactly the same as the information in the real world - bar anything Colter affects and the knock-on effects of that.

Strictly speaking it's more about time travel than alternate universes, although one will necessarily lead to the other. It's about time travel of a mind rather than a body (thankfully a gloriously woolly concept in itself!). The source code uses the lingering quantum field of Sean Fentress's brain activity (I'm sure any genuine scientist will call shenanigans at that point!) as an access point to insert Colter's mind 8 minutes before Fentress's death (the furthest back it is possible to go). But the moment you change the past by introducing an element that wasn't there, you have in effect created an alternate universe anyway. It's either parallel or supercedent, and because everyone at Beleaguered Castle is aware the bomb exploded, it clearly must be parallel. So a newly created parallel universe it is.

Anyway, that's how I interpreted it. The source code may be a computer program, but it's a computer program that physically transplants a human mind back in time to a compatible host mind using the peculiar quantum attributes of the brain/mind/memory. Because we don't really understand how the brain works, how quantum physics works, or how time travel would work, it's just about sciency enough to be plausible, or at least no less plausible than faster than light travel, teleportation, or many other science fiction tropes we happily swallow.

[–] darkflameq 12 years ago

A lot of people do not have the mental capacity to understand this film and will argue to the end of days.

This is definitely one of the most complex storylines i've ever seen for a movie in regards to the multiverse theory.

And that's why i love it so :)

[–] spamzz 12 years ago

i dont think its parallel universes personally. what he is doing is filling in the gaps with his mind subconsciously. the mind picks up everything in the persons environment, including license plates, faces, cars, etc. but we dont register it on a conscious level. when a person is hypnotized, they can recall all sorts of information they didnt know consciously. u can see from the first time in the virtual reality, he is just going through the motions just like it was exactly the same for this person. but he is not this person, thats why he is all confused. then when he "wakes up" and is told he is someone else, he is then able with this persons entire subconscious that has picked up all kinds of information traverse the terrain so to speak. just like in a dream, u arent really swimming or in a car or flying, but because u know what those experiences feel, and look like in ur waking life, its repeated in ur dream, even places u never been, but seen on tv, its like ur there. thats the mind filling in the gaps.

so every time he goes back into that same 7 minutes or whatever it was, he is constantly changing what he does because his mind fills in the gaps. and it takes more and more times to notice or dig into the subconscious and find things like the license plate. also another example is that they tell him there is a gun, so his mind makes it so there is a gun, it fills in the gaps. they dont know where the bomb is, just that there was a bomb. his mind made the bomb appear in the bathroom, it could have easily just been in a back pack. where it is is irrelevant because the event already happen. they just want to catch the guy who did it. so he has the information like the license plate, the lost wallet, etc. but everything else is just created in the mind to help him make sense of the subconscious.

as far as the text, message, email whatever, i think he became a ghost in the machine. or he became the machine. like an A.I., and since the machine is a super computer, and probably connected online, he is now in the system. like a virus, but self aware. thats how i took it.

no way this was parallel universes, thats just to much of a stretch.

[–] sdtony42 12 years ago

Spamzz that is the dumbest thing I have ever read. The movie doesnt make a bit of sense if its not about parrallel universes.

[–] spamzz 12 years ago

/"Spamzz that is the dumbest thing I have ever read. The movie doesnt make a bit of sense if its not about parrallel universes./"

what didnt make sense? i basically spelled it out for you. the fact that u dont understand what i was saying IS "the dumbest thing i ever read". i think the people that "think" this is about parallel worlds are on a parallel world. one where they think they are right about this moving being about parallel worlds, lol.

u are silly....

[–] Chanco 12 years ago

Sorry, but what you've written makes absolutely zero sense. How can Stevens fill in the gaps of things that Sean never saw. Sean didn't find the bomb. Sean didn't get off the train and walk across to a car park to see the van the bomber used. Using your logic that this is just a simulation (based on Sean's memories) they would never be able to find the bomber.

Rutledge states to Stevens that source code is creating alternative realities. Rutledge only cares about "his" reality (i.e. the original reality in which the train bomb has already exploded). When Stevens states argues with Rutledge that he can go back and save the passengers on the train Rutledge correctly slaps him down saying nothing he does in source code will effect Rutledge's reality, because the source code is NOT time travel (the train has already exploded in the original reality).

You just have to accept the concept the film presents, that they have found a way to bridge the divide between universes through dead / semi-dead people. The mechanics and their basis in reality are irrelevant, they're just a plot device, plain and simple.

Nobody seems to question the fact that Iron Man's suit is barely any bigger than Tony Stark, yet accept the fact it is able to assemble itself as if by magic and contains all sorts of weapons yet still has room for Tony Start to fit in it. Or how about Wolverine's claws, exactly where do they retract to/from? Surely not into his arm as there wouldn't be any room for them and the lower arm bones and muscles. They're longer than his hand, so they can't be located in them either otherwise he wouldn't be able to bend his wrists! If a radioactive spider bit me, would I suddenly develop the ability to climb walls and have superhuman strength or would I simply get ill and probably die?

Most films are not documentaries, yet it never fails to amuse me that people seem to apply strict real world logic to what is in essence a fantasy medium.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] dustin1280 12 years ago

This movie is ALL about parallel universes... It is constantly hinted at and in fact damn near shoved in your face at the end...

Anyone that thinks it ISN'T a parallel universe really doesn't understand the movie at all..

It sure as hell isn't an "afterglow" effect either, that epilogue took FAR more then 8 minutes...

I am amazed that people actually think this movie ISN'T about parallel universes, especially when they make it painfully obvious and basically force that throughout the whole movie.

---
Ignoring the board, 1 troll at a time.

[–] mc_razza 11 years ago

I thought the reference to quantum physics was the giveaway to the parallel universes thing in the movie. It's also a very convenient explanation .

"For relaxing times, make it Suntory time." ;)

[–] thisnameinuse 11 years ago

I've always felt that, upon watching the film, they weren't "creating a new universe", but they were accessing a parallel universe that just happened to be matched up with ours in a perfect way.

A sequel where they did more experiments would have been pretty cool. But then again, I'm tired of sequels, and I like that it's a one-off.

•—•
Mrs. French's cat is missing...