MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > After re-watching this series

After re-watching this series

posted 2 years ago by jriley555 (8117)
12 replies | jump to latest

Spoilers below

And acquainting myself with the back-story of the previous few generations before the generation in the main story, I got so much more out of it. Kind of like watching the Godfather series the 2d/3rd time.

In that context, I now feel the final season, including the climactic battle (if you will) in Kings Landing makes a lot more sense. The Targaryans were an unstable family, with generations of incest behind them, Dany's one brother was a cunt, her older brother seemed decent, but her father, the 'mad kink', was batshit crazy, saying 'burn them all', doing a lot of slaughtering. A bit of foreshadowing. Also the saying, "having a Targaryan is like flipping a coin."

We saw how isolated Dany was - no family to speak of, only a very few trusted courtiers. She was, understandably, convinced of her destiny, but became more isolated and more tyrannical as the series progressed. Losing her most intimate woman friend seems to have put her over the edge - remember that all of her Dothraki court were slaughtered earlier.

The first time I saw the series, not having the context of all this, thought her 'transformation' was unrealistic. Upon second viewing, much less so. I think a lot of the negative reception the end of the series got was from viewers like me, not totally tuned into the story, the history behind.

[–] Otter (24464) 2 years ago

I thought the transformation was rushed and botched, but it could have worked if they'd done a better job of it, taken more time and added more depth and made her badder earlier. It was a good idea, badly realized.

They never made her crazy before S8, just ruthless. Before that, she was fair and just when she could be, absolutely ruthless when she had to be, and was as good as anyone in that world at knowing which was appropriate. Sure, in the modern world she'd be considered a psychopath, but in that world her brutal ruthlessness was considered to be... effective leadership.

[–] jriley555 (8117) 2 years ago

Well, it is a story, after all, and they couldn't run it out forever. Prior to the last conflict, she played a pivotal role in saving humanity from the undead which was heroic, but she did make a point of demanding that everyone bend a knee or get blasted, (while building up a burning hatred for Cersie)- in contrast to her more pragmatic/humane alternative, Jon Show.

Lord Varys laid it out before it happened, and he was probably the wisest character in the tale. Tyrian had his misgiving too. They didn't just pull her crazy out of a hat.

[–] Otter (24464) 2 years ago

I don't think you're really getting the difference between crazy, and the utterly ruthless politics of the time. If Tywin Lannister had a dragon, and the Tarlys were standing in front of him and refusing to bend the knee and daring him to use the dragon, he wouldn't have hesitated to burn them to ash. A leader in that society who didn't punish defiance was seen as weak, and a female political leader could never afford to be seen as weak, not for one second. But like I said, I think the Targaryan madness thing could have worked, if they'd done a better job of it. But as it was, I guess they didn't want to do too much foreshadowing because they wanted to make her character arc a shocker, and of course they rushed it by having her go from zero to crazy in the last season.

I'd have done it rather differently if I were in charge. Like I've said I'd have had two more seasons - one devoted to the war against the Others and the last season a serious civil war between Jon and Danerys, where all the major characters take sides, fight each other, and die without benefit of plot armor. And I'd have her get more serious with Jon for longer, have her confess her loneliness and stress level to him, and have some cracks start to show during the war against the undead, with Jon and Dany breaking up at the end of that season, declaring war on each other, and both being devastated in many different ways. And Dany gradually going over the line between ruthless and crazy as the season progresses...

[–] jriley555 (8117) 2 years ago

You'd want to spell it all out, draw it out a bit more. Perhaps they didn't have the time or budget for all that. I don't feel like that was needed upon second viewing, and appreciate the economy. Eight seasons was enough to tell the tale.

She went crazy when she burnt up the city. Getting there was a process. She was a born extremist. Remember, she made all these pretensions about freeing people & what not. How did that work out in Kings Landing ?

Yes, historically, conquerors did all of that & more. But this isn't a history lesson, its a fantasy story with morals.

[–] Otter (24464) 2 years ago

What can I say, I don't agree with you regarding S8, but I won't insist that you agree with me. In fact, I think it's sweet that there's one fan out there who likes what they did!

As for limitations on time and budget, what I heard at the time was that HBO wanted several more seasons, as the show was their biggest hit and kept subscriberships up, but that those dickheads D&D refused. They wanted one more season and a shortened one at that, because there was other stuff they wanted to do (which has since fallen through). The majority of the fans agree with me that they made a hash of trying to fit several years worth of plot into six episodes, but hey, I really don't insist you agree.

[–] TearofLys (2641) 2 years ago

I would say that Dany lost the "coin flip" that happens every time a Targaryen is born. She was always, just like her father. When she was young, she didn't display it that much and still deferred to advisors or elders. Recall when they crossed the Red Waste and the Thirteen of Qarth wouldn't let them in? What did Dany say? She didn't beg or plead, she threatened to come back when her dragons were grown and burn the city to the ground. Jorah talked her down from that.

Later, she wanted to just execute all the masters until she was talked down from that. Finally, remember what Tyrion told Cersei when they landed in Westeros? He basically told her that Dany wanted to bring fire and blood, but Tyrion talked her down from it. You are right in that as more of those trusted confidants were stripped away from her, she blossomed into what she was always meant to be - The Mad Queen.

[–] jriley555 (8117) 2 years ago

Great take.

[–] TimeTunnel (4769) 2 years ago

She never was The Mad Queen for me.
Alexander the Great did pretty much the same what Daenerys did.
He's called "Great", she's called "Mad". ☻

For killing her Drogon should've roasted that whiner Jon Snow. 🔥 🐲

[–] CarterBlunt (1382) 2 years ago

No, it was completely against her character. I don't care if she took a massive blow to the head and lost half her frontal lobe. You won't change every principle you ever learned. Don't get me started on how Disney Channel that dialogue was.

[–] Seperatrix (1213) 2 years ago

Agreed.

There are some that will feel the final season is perfectly reasonable, that's how they're wired I guess, but to me the writing was horrid. Not only the quick flip on Dany's persona as established over the previous 7 seasons, but the whole affair in general.

They were in such a hurry to wrap up GOT and get on to that Star Wars project . . . . how'd that work out?

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

It was the ultra fast pace of the last season that should have had more episodes, the plot armor, and generally poor writing that people had issues with.

[–] yvesyves (681) 2 years ago

For me the Queen of Dragons at the end switched totally because in a very very short time period she was traumatized by:

The death of her 2 children (dragons)
The death of her most loyal follower Jorah Mormont (who she probably oved and who loved her purely and unlimitedly)
The death of Missandei her loyal assistant and follower

After that she went from having an "ideology" and "theory" of idealistic kindness and humanism which was only an ideology (like words on paper, something virtual) to the actual gruesome reality of the real world; like a 6 year old who thinks everyone is nice and equal and then when he/she grows up he/she realizes it's absolutely not the case; struck by reality in opposition to idealism and theory.