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Daenerys' rampage after King's Landing surrenders makes COMPLETE SENSE

posted 6 years ago by jackieleesk01 (18)
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So many people saying it makes no sense that Dany would go on a rampage killing innocents after King's Landing surrendered. You're not paying attention to that episode if you think that!

Recall the scene earlier on in episode 5, between Dany and Jon. Some of the things Dany says in this scene:

"What did I say would happen if you told your sister?..."
"far more people in Westeros love you more than they love me. I don't have love here, I only have fear."
(after failed kiss) "All right then. Let it be fear."

It's clear that Dany's great apprehension is more people finding out about Jon's true heritage. Because Jon is more loved in Westeros, and he is a male Targaryen and therefore the rightful heir to the throne, Dany's place on the throne would be under serious question when more people find out.

Dany realises that the only way she can secure her place on the throne even with people inevitably finding out about Jon's heritage, is if everyone is frightened to death of her. "Let it be fear". In her fragile state of mind, it wasn't enough to fly around with her dragon killing the King's Landing soldiers. She needed to do something far more extreme, if the people were to be fearful enough of her to never question her place on the throne. That's why she went on her rampage, even when the bells rang signalled surrender.

It was obvious to me on a first watch, can't believe how little this has been discussed. Everyone arguing about the validity of the 'descent to madness' angle and looking back into many earlier seasons....as far as I'm concerned that angle is only a backdrop to Dany's rampage, the MAIN reason she did what she did, is the stuff I explained above. All the answers are in the past few episodes! It wasn't pure madness, it was calculated madness to ensure nobody challenged her when she took the throne, given the truth about Jon.

(mind you, it was the wrong decision that will probably lead to Arya executing her in the next episode, but that's another topic entirely...)

[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

That doesn't make any sense. If you wanna solve the problem of Jon contending to the throne, you just kill him. And then blame Cersei. Win-win.

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

And THAT is the kind of advice that Tyrion should have been giving her!

But they've made him stupid, too. They've made everyone stupid this year. Well, except Jon, he started out stupid.

[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

Exactly.

But not only they've made everyone stupid. They've made everyone stupid in a most stupid way.

Tyrion was smart. Varys was smart. Melissandre was smart. Cersei, when she's not blinded by emotions, is smart. They've become useless.

Jon was never smart, but he's a trained soldier. There's a quote in Jack Reacher 'What does any training do? Skills become reflex. Muscle memory. You do without thinking. It also makes people who aren't necessarily smart seem smart by beating some tactical awareness into them.'. And then the showrunners decide to make Jon reach his peak of stupidity... in a battle! Damn, this is the only place he'll look smart, as he did when he protected the wall (but that was RR Martin's, and he knows his craft).

And then they decide to make a Stark chick a genius. Arya? She and Rob were the smarter ones in the family, so at least that would make some sense, not much, but a bit. But no, their new strategic genius is Valley Girl Sansa. WTF?!?!

(btw, I forgot to post, you had good points in the other thread).

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

You forgot to add that Danerys used to be smart, too. Remember her tricking the Masters out of Astapore and an Unsullied army? And when she ended up in the desert alone and unarmed, she came home with 100,000 Dothraki worshiping her as a goddess incarnate? She used to be cool-headed, fearless, and very clever indeed!

Now she's burning down cities because she had a fight with her boyfriend.

And yeah, Jon may not be too bright, but he's a very good soldier. Not the best general, though, look at the Battle of the Bastards.

[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

You're right. She didn't look that smart because Tyrion, Tywin and Varys used to steal the show, but she was damn clever.

Dany as ruler and Tyrion and Varys as advisers should have been the smartest team in Westeros by far.

We could have had a third act with the Night King and his almost unstoppable raw power on one side, and Dany's team using all kind of clever tricks and tactics to outsmart him on the other. But we had...

Damn.

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

Danerys was written as being just as intelligent as Tyrion and Varys, and considerably more ambitious (and ruthless).

It's just that Tyrion and Varys are played by better actors.

[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

mmm... I'm afraid I disagree. In my opinion Tywin and Varys are the extremely clever ones, with Tyrion and Dany (and Littlefinger) following them.

Anyway, that's just like arguing about the favorite movie, nobody is gonna agree XD

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

And Olenna Tyrell! Don't forget her in the lists of the smartest characters on the show! Plus she was the only power player on the show who actually acted in the best interests of Westeros as a whole.

But yeah, if we started arguing about who was the very smartest smartie, that then we'd have to actually define intelligence, a question which as stymied all the great psychologists and philosophers in the world. Like twerps like us are going to do better!

Let's say they're all very intelligent, much too intelligent to waste their time arguing about TV shows on the internet.

[–] kuku (3510) 6 years ago

Let's say they're all very intelligent, much too intelligent to waste their time arguing about TV shows on the internet.

LOL

You're completely right about Olenna Tyrell. I forgot her, but she was like a Miss Marple that could see through everybody.

It's amazing the amount of smart and interesting characters this series had. I guess that's one of the things that made it so good. Now, well...

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

Yes, Olenna Tyrell was very smart.

And what was her advice for Dany? – "Be a dragon."
So maybe Dany didn’t go mad after all. She just decided to follow Olenna’s advice, and Missandei’s dying wish ("Dracarys") along with it.

Well, honestly, I don’t believe that myself. Burning down a city and thousands of innocent people is, in my opinion, a sure sign of a diseased mind. I’m just saying that it’s not completely impossible that the writers will explain her rampage like this.

[–] xfool (968) 6 years ago

nope........ Dany killing innocent civilians has really cross the line, sure she is ruthless to her enemies but the people of kings landing arent her enemies since they dun know her. They wont love her but doubt theres any hate, fear mostly esp after they seen her rode a dragon and lay waste to the Lannister army. Thus she has already achieve her aim of inspiring fear , killing the civilains after the city surrendered simply doesnt make any sense, not like Cersei would care so how is that personal as well?

[–] TexasJack (12516) 6 years ago

Exactly right. They saw the dragon and how it almost single-handedly destroyed the Lannister forces, the Golden Company and the Iron Fleet. People would fear her just from that. Maybe they would have loved her eventually if she ruled well.

[–] jackieleesk01 (18) 6 years ago

I'm saying what she did at King's Landing made sense, purely from observing the way episode 5 was plotted, with her and Jon's fireplace scene and all.

I'm not saying what she did at King's Landing was the RIGHT decision. Dany is no longer capable of making right decisions, remember?

I'm beginning to realize the differences between those who have a big problem with the writing in season 8, and those who don't...those who have a problem, read into it a lot more, and apply a lot more character analysis and logic. Those who don't have a problem, like me, just observe what's in front of them without thinking about it too much.

Call me a simpleton, but at least I'm happy with season 8. It would SUCK to be disappointed in a series I've invested EIGHT seasons in...feel sorry for you guys :P

[–] Keelai (36157) 6 years ago

Part of the problem may be people wanted Dany to be the good guy and she's turned bad. Dany can't trust her advisors who have betrayed her and have recently given her bad advice, anyway.

I've enjoyed the entire series even though there should've been 10 episodes for the last two and one episode was shot much too dark.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

I think they added a part which really explains Dany’s rampage. Kind of.

In the "Previously on Game of Thrones" part (by the way, is there a proper English word for it?), after they showed Missandei’s death, they showed Dany’s face, dubbed by some quotes from previous episodes.
Here they are:

VARYS: He has the better claim to the throne.
CERSEI: Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin.
BARRISTAN SELMY: The Mad King gave his enemies the justice he thought they deserved.
TYRION: Children are not their fathers.
OLENNA TYRELL: Be a dragon.
JORAH MORMONT: You have a gentle heart.
AEMON TARGARYEN: A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing.
VISERYS: You don't want to awake the dragon, do you?

Combined with the expression on Dany’s face (hard as it may be to read), and especially with Visery’s quote being the last one, this might point to the possibilty that this was the moment when Dany cracked. When she later promised to break off the attack when the bells toll, she lied. She never planned to do it.

Trouble is:
– It’s a stretch, I’m aware of that.
– You don’t put an important part like that into the "Previously on" part. That’s like… hmmm, a rough patch for bad writing.

[–] Alerra (244) 6 years ago

Yes. And foreshadowing is not the same as character development, but the writers seem to have the idea that it is. Dany is shown as totally sane up until this episode. A bit ruthless at times, but a sane ruler who is always TRYING to do the right thing and be a good leader.

IF they had shown Dany being told she would be betrayed three times and subsequently worrying about it.
IF she had not locked up Viserion and Rhaegal after Drogon burned the little girl.
IF Jorah had been shown cautioning her at Astapor or Vaes Dothrak instead of just showing those scenes as total victories for her.
IF she had continued to execute the masters in Mereen instead of trying to work with them.
IF she had burned all her captives after the Loot Train Battle instead of just the Tarlys.

If even just one or two of those things had happened, this past episode would have worked a whole lot better.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

Oh, by the way… I know it’s off-topic here, but since you mention it:

IF she had not locked up Viserion and Rhaegal after Drogon burned the little girl.

I always expected that at some point, it’ll turn out that Drogon didn’t burn the girl after all – that it was just a ploy by the Masters of Slaver’s Bay or the Sons of the Harpy to take the dragons out of the game. Which, for a while, succeeded.
Well, I was wrong, obviously. But I still think it would’ve added a nice touch.
Of course, on the other hand, it did show that having dragons can be a problem as long as you’re not at war.

[–] TexasJack (12516) 6 years ago

It didn't look like a calculated decision at all. She had parked the dragon and was waiting...and waiting...and waiting. Then she heard the bells and flipped out.

[–] jackieleesk01 (18) 6 years ago

if you're right, then the fireplace dialogue between Jon and Dany was completely pointless.

[–] TexasJack (12516) 6 years ago

I don't think it was because she would have inspired plenty of fear just from what Drogon did up to the point when the bells rang. The people of KL had never seen a dragon in action before and they had just seen one almost single-handedly destroy the Lannister forces, the Golden Company and the Iron Fleet.

[–] ultravioletx (10237) 6 years ago

So you're saying it was strategy. And she was simply being a Strategic Queen and not the Mad Queen. That sure is quite the coincidence that she could burn down the city and still somehow not be the Mad Queen. If the writers go that route they deserve to never work again.

I have to go with no. If what you say is true then she cannot let anyone live. If she cannot let anyone live then she has nobody to rule over. Its self-defeating. If its all about preventing people from learning about Jon Snow then the winning move is to kill Jon Snow. Then they cannot dispute her being the heir.

Face it. She killed all those people because she went mad. Or I should say she went mad because the writers wanted her to go mad with some mild foreshadowing but without fully developing it.