MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > Thoughts/Questions on S7E3

Thoughts/Questions on S7E3

posted 7 years ago by LeiaOfLothlorien (1980)
38 replies | jump to latest

1. Damn. Cersei is rising to Ramsay-level evilness, if not more. The scene where she punished/sentenced Ellaria and her daughter was brutal and extremely cruel. ... But I didn't expect the prisoners to break down and cry so easily.

2. The scenes between Jon, Tyrion, Dany, and Davos were pretty good. Still, I could have sworn Dany had a vision of the White Walkers and/or the Iron Throne covered in snow/ash, so I am somewhat surprised that she was so bent on not believing Jon. She has dragons, which she (or Tyrion?) admits everyone thought were extinct, so why can't she believe that an army of the dead is coming with winter?

3. I feel bad for Bran. He's become so cold and distant, it breaks my heart. He didn't even seem happy to see Sansa again. Could this be because the former Three-Eyed Raven is a part of him now? Like the spirit sharing his mind to guide him or something?

4. The scene of taking Casterly Rock was... different. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about Tyrion's narration over the action scenes. It kinda disoriented me a bit, but it was interesting in a way.

5. The scene with Jaime and Olenna was well-done. Olenna has plenty of witty dialogue, and Jaime isn't really falling for it. I was pleasantly surprised when Jaime gave her the painless poison, but I worry about Cersei'a reaction if/when he tells her that Olenna killed Joffrey. I almost thought that Jaime would break his word and stab Olenna through the heart when she confessed.

[–] Volley (3433) 7 years ago

1. Yeah before the season started, I didn't expect Cersei to have power beyond Episode 2 and would have been thrown off the Iron Throne and in retreat very quickly. Once again writers cater to the Cersei-wins-again mantra we've seen since Season 1.

2. Indeed Daenerys was one of the two people who saw a vision of the Iron Throne covered in snow, the other was Bran, and both saw the roof completely destroyed and a layer of snow had formed on the ground. The "North beyond the Wall" music theme also plays when Daenerys enters the Iron Throne room which tells me a devastating battle between forces of the Night King & Daenerys/Cersei wildfire took place here, and as a result--abandoned.

3. I was disappointed with that reunion, just because Bran becomes Three Eyed Raven doesn't mean he can no longer display emotion. A few seasons ago he would have been crying at the thought of reuniting with Sansa.

4. Casterly Rock certainly looked different than I imagined it, but still suitable given Tywin's announcement to Cersei that they were actually out of gold. It didn't appear to be as 'wealthy' or rich as I pictured it, I would have imagined a LOT more Red & Gold colors, suitable to Tywin Lannister's style. The twist of Tyrion's secret entry into the Rock was pretty cool.

5. One of the best scenes of the series. Lady Olenna never disappoints and she departed with a special treat for Jaime--all without revealing that Littlefinger was involved. I was indeed expecting Jaime to lob off her head, but he realized the poison was enough.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

2: Did Bran and Danny see the same exact vision? That's pretty cool.

3: It definitely seemed like something was missing. I wish Bran had shown some hint of emotion.

4: Good point, lol. I was also expecting it to be more luxurious. I wasn't that surprised by Tyrion's secret entrance; I think something was mentioned in the books about him designing the sewers.

[–] TexasJack (12516) 7 years ago

3. Bran is definitely nowhere near the same person he was. Total stoneface even when Sansa hugged him. I guess omniscience impairs one's sociability. I was hoping he would do a better job of telling Sansa his story.

4. Strategically, taking the Rock made no sense anyway. I do recall Tyrion's argument for doing so, but it just screams "plot contrivance" to me.

5. I will miss Olenna. I was hoping until the end she still had some rabbit to pull out of the hat.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

3: Bran has certainly changed, and not necessarily for the better imo. He definitely could have done a better job of explaining. Why did he have to remind her about her wedding to Ramsay? Couldn't be have chosen something a bit more happy?

4: It did kinda make sense to me, but there could have been better options.

5: Olenna was a great character, but I think she was ready to die. She didn't have much else to live for.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

4: Don’t forget that Tyroin probably doesn’t know that the Lannister mines ran dry.
Tywin told Cersei but there surely wasn’t a public announcement.

If you image that Tyrion might think that CR is still full of gold, the decision to take it acutally makes sense. After all, Tyrion has learned all his life that gold equals power.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

True. Although Varys probably could have found that out if he looked hard enough.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

I think Varys isn’t as well-informed as he used to be, maybe due to the fact that Qyburn took over at least some of the "little birds", maybe because he was in Essos for a long time, which probably made it hard to keep his network up. Nowadays, others seem to have a clearer idea of what’s going on:

– While Euron obviously knew that Yara’s fleet on the way to King's Landing, Yara was caught with her pants down. (Almost literally, if Euron had arrived a few minutes later…)
– Cersei apparently knew that the Unsullied were going for Casterly Rock, so CR was more or less deserted because the Lannister army was marching towards Highgarden… as far as we know, Daenery’s party didn’t have the slightest notion about that.
– And then, there’s that weapon that Qyburn to fight the dragons. It was built by "the finest artillators and blacksmiths in King's Landing", so at least a fistful of people were involved. If Varys’ spy network would be as good as it used to be, he surely would know about that waepon by now.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

Good points. Qyburn does seem to have control over most of not all of the "little birds". He might even be feeding them false information to threw Varys off balance.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

Of course, there’s also the possibility that Varys knew all this but didn’t say anything.
I’m still not entirely convinced that Varys really supports Dany. He might follow his own agenda.

[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

Jaime knowing for sure tyrion or Sansa didn't kill Joffrey is quite important I think

[–] prometheus1816 (1060) 7 years ago

My feeling is that Jaime will try to tell Cersei that, but she won't listen. She'll still believe Tyrion did it. That I think will be the break between Jaime and Cersei.

[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

Right on. It also makes it impossible for Jaime to kill tyrion in good conscience. Whereas before he could have justified it to himself.

[–] prometheus1816 (1060) 7 years ago

Yep. I think Cersei despite what Jaime will tell her about Tyrion will still want him dead. Now whether that is because in her growing psychosis she'll not believe a thing about Olenna's statement, or because Tyrion is "working for the other side".

[–] TexasJack (12516) 7 years ago

But Tyrion killed their father, so he still has a justification.

[–] Benjobuff (406) 7 years ago

I knew someone would say that. But if I were Jaime, I would suspect tywin knew that Tyrion was innocent. Because Jaime believes Tyrion is a good person and it doesn't make sense for Tyrion to murder his father without good cause. Now that he knows Tyrion did not kill Joffrey

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

1. I wouldn't say that Cersai is even near Ramsay's brand of evil. He did terrible things because he just enjoyed doing terrible things. I don't think there was much motive behind them. Cersei is revenging her daughter's death. Is it unusually cruel? Yes. But it is motivated by something more than just the love for cruelty. And generally, there is a reason for her actions, however bad they are.

2. She might not be making the connection between the vision and what Jon is telling her. I'm surprised as well that she has dragons, but doesn't believe in the army of the dead. Also, she has first hand experience with magical and unusual things... I think she's half way there, but is too preoccupied with the other war to spend too much time thinking over dead armies and far away threats. And she is intrigued by Jon, and let him mine for the dragonglass, so we'll get there. Eventually.

3. I was mildly shocked at Bran's non-reaction to seeing Sansa. I read it as, if he's seeing everything now, he can't really be "present" in whatever is actually happening around him. Like when you're focused on reading something and trying to talk with someone at the same time.

4. I didn't like that scene at all. It was needed exposition, but I feel that, like many such scenes, all that information would've been given sooner to the people involved. Also, those two battles we just glossed over. But no time for such things anymore I guess.

5. What can Cersai do? Every important Tyrell is dead. Olenna is dead. The most is, she's going to throw a fit and Jaime is going to get a few shouts and slaps, because he didn't kill Olenna worse. If he tells her at all, that is. But that scene was very good. And she went out having the last laugh, in a ripe old age, which is more that most in this world get to do.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

1: Hm. I suppose you have a point there.

2: Hopefully she comes around to believing him.

3: I thought he needed to be touching a weirwood tree in order to See anything. Or maybe he already Saw the reunion, so he was less emotional when it really did happen?

4: We still got to see the Unsullied taking Casterly Rock, so that's something.

5: True. There isn't really much Cersei can do about it at this point, but she'd at least be angry.

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

3. I'm not sure about how the power works exactly. You might be right, that he needs to be touching the tree to go back and forth in time. I might be confusing it slightly with warging, which he can do "remotely", right? He may have already seen the reunion, or he's seen something terrible happening there and he hasn't much to be happy about?

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

I think he can warg into animals/people remotely, but he needs to touch a weirwood tree in order to see visions and stuff. Hopefully we'll find out more about what's going through his head.

[–] prometheus1816 (1060) 7 years ago

1. Remember what she said to Septa Unella? Everything she did is because she liked doing it. That is just the same as Ramsey. As for what she did in "avenging" Myrcella's death, bogus. What did she think that Ellaria was going to do with Cersei's charges leading to the trial of Tyrion and the trial by combat, of which Oberyn freely accepted as Tyrion's champion in order to kill The Mountain. But whatever you claim Cersei was right to do by motive of revenge, so did Ellaria. And it's not like Cersei really cared about any of her children, what with blowing up their burial place then being so uncaring as to what would be done with Tommen's body afterward.

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I don't remember that conversation with Septa Urella, so I can't really comment on that.

I didn't say Cersei was right to do what she did to Ellaria. I just said that there was some motive behind it. Those two just one-upped eachother to get to here. And if Ellaria gets out of that cell, I'm sure she's going to go revenging her daughter as well.

And againg, Cersei may very well also enjoy the horrible things she does, but I don't agree that she does them "just 'cause". She blew up the Sept because she wanted to take out her enemies. She tortures Septa Unella, because the Septa kinda tortured her, etc. I don't remember what Ramsay's motive was for systematicaly breaking down Theon, beyond his enjoyment of torture...

By all this I don't claim that Cersei is right in doing all those things! She is a brutal person, but she usually has some semblance of a motive, as well.

[–] prometheus1816 (1060) 7 years ago

The whole Septa Unella "conversation" happened when she was pouring the wine on her face in a "winer-boarding" thing, then she left The Mountain there to have his way.

Cersei did these things because she could. Pure and simple. If she truly was "above board" she would have shown up at the Sept for her trial. Even Margaery knew Cesei had no plans on "going down".

It's called cause and effect. Had Tywin not started the whole thing with ordering The Mountain to seek out Elia Martell and rape her then murder her children, there would have been no need for Oberyn to seek revenge.

Had Cersei not blamed Tyrion for Joffrey's death, there would have been no need for his arrest then trial by combat where Oberyn fought for him in order to get the confession of Tywin for his part in Elia's death. Then had it not been for that trial by combat Oberyn wouldn't have died.

Had The Mountain not murdered Oberyn, no need for Ellaria to seek revenge by killing Myrcella.

Had Cersei not sought revenge for Myrcella there would have been no need for the deaths of Obera and Nymeria, and no reason to imprison Ellaria and Tyene.

Cersei has no semblance of motive. She's all full on bitch drunk on power. Look at what happened after she had Ellaria and Tyene imprisoned in that cell. She went right up to have sex with Jaime even though he said, "No". Then she flouted what they did by not allowing Jaime to get up and hide himself from her handmaiden.

Everything that has happened has been spearheaded by the Lannisters. Cersei and Tywin are a lot alike but nothing either have done has been warranted. But they did it anyway because they could.

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

Ok, so there is no semblance of motive? Why doesn't Cersei just take random women of the streets to "wine-board" or lock in rooms with rotting corpses then? If she's doing those things purely because she enjoys being evil just about anyone would do, no? I mean, Joffrey didn't have much trouble getting whores to use for target practice. But her victims are people who she perceives as someone who's wronged her in some way or stand in the way of her power. You say that that's not motivation (even a twisted kind of motivation) and is the same as Ramsay's hunts? I'm not convinced.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

No where near Ramsay-level yet. Frankly I think she was a little too tame... I expected her to start by having the Mountain rape the daughter a few months before moving into kill mode.... Hell Ramsay-level would have required rape, pregnancy and then forcing Ellaria to eat the grand child. Simply poisoning and leaving to be near the corpse is kind of tame when you think about it.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

I think you give Ramsay a bit too much credit there. But put in that light, torturing both of them would have been expected.

[–] Eddym123 (156) 7 years ago

Exactly! Though I was expecting a very cold and cruel Cersei, not a bit of joy left after losing all her children and distant towards Jaime. She seems like regular Cersei, just with more power. I thought she was going to force Ellaria to watch the Mountain brutalizing Tyne . Her form of punishment was a bit too even of a return.

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

At first, I though the Mountain is going to rape Ellaria's daughter as well. But nothing like that happened to Marcella in Dorne, so it would've made no sense. I think what Cersei did wasn't that tame. Can you imagine being stuck in a small room with not only a rotting corpse, but your child's rotting corpse? I'm not a parent, but I'd imagine that's about one of the most horrible things that could happen to someone that is.

[–] R_Kane (15828) 7 years ago

I have, praise The Lord God!, not felt this, but I understand there is no pain worse than losing your child.

[–] Kawada_Kira (7282) 7 years ago

Bran has seen a lot of horrible things, and he's probably seen even more horrible things since he obtained the three eyed raven's omniscience. And now he's currently running from an army of corpses and trying to stop the apocalypse from happening. Imagine what it takes to process all that. I don't think it's unrealistic that he'd be in thousand-yard-stare mode after all he's seen and been through.

[–] Drmccormack (743) 7 years ago

I was trying to think of reasons why Bran was so cold with Sansa. Do you think it's possible that Bran knows the future and he may think that Sansa will betray them in the future? Maybe she'll take power and join with Baelish and Bran knows this is going to happen?

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

While I can imagine that Sansa takes the power because she thinks she more fit to rule than Jon, I can’t imagine that the joins with Littlefinger. She said it herself: "Only a fool would trust Lord Baelish."

[–] Drmccormack (743) 7 years ago

Yes, I think you're right, she's too smart to trust Baelish, but maybe she might be forced to join him. I don't know. I'm thinking out loud. There was some foreshadowing of something going on with Sansa. I don't know what it means. She had the conversation with Jon and the others at the wall about strategy and she was unhappy that he didn't listen to her. Then she uses Baelish and the Knights of the Vale army to help Jon, but she never warns him. Jon has a talk with her about a united front. Then she challenges him twice in front of the big group of Northmen. Every time there's a scene with her in it, there's tons of meta. Maybe the writers are distracting the audience with these false clues but it seems like Sansa might try something different. Gain some real power?

[–] NorthernLad (472) 7 years ago

It is bothering me that he is acting so cold towards her. Does becoming the "Three-eyed Raven" mean you lose all of your personality?

[–] Drmccormack (743) 7 years ago

Maybe? I don't know. They didn't show enough of the earlier three eyed raven for us to really get a feel about the personality of such a person. It's weird though that at the weir wood Bran brings up such a painful memory for Sansa as an example of his omniscience. A brother would be more sensitive to his sister unless he wanted to hurt her or he just can't recognize that he's being hurtful because he's the three eyed raven. Seems like something is up with that storyline.

[–] NorthernLad (472) 7 years ago

Exactly. Why bring that up to her in such a way. "Hey sis...let me remind you of one of the most painful nights you have ever lived through just to prove to you that I'm this different person now."

[–] Lootrock (149) 7 years ago

I look at scene with Bran and interpret it analogously with the plight of Dr. Manhattan from The Watchmen, that has this sort of indifference that comes with the ability to see everything. It takes a great effort to feign coming off genuinely has having the same affinity and compassion for humans as he once had. From that perspective, I understood him as not being cold, but just lacking sensitivity training.

[–] Jennie_Portrait (804) 7 years ago

Agree- I felt like I was watching a vulcan.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

1) Now that Cersei has the freedom she always wanted, she's blossoming into the evil bitch she always wanted to be and is loving every minute of it! As long as she had a father to tell her what to do or a young son to be a role model for, she had to stifle most of her real inclinations, or at least keep them quiet.

2) Regarding the vision of snow on the throne... SNOW ON THE THRONE, character named JON SNOW who is now in a position to marry the future queen of Westeros? That vision probably had both a literal and figurative meaning, in that war and winter are coming to King's Landing, and that Jon SNOW is very likely to sit his lovely perky ass on the iron throne.

3) Yeah, Bran has become totally removed from ordinary life. Even when he's not actively warging, his mind is elsewhere. Well, it's not like he is a popular character and the fans are clamoring for more of his inner life, they just want him used to provide exposition. (And again, if Sansa is really smart, she'll tell everyone that he's batshit crazy and she'll care for him. That way, she'll be the only one who has access to all the information he can provide.)

5) Excellent scene, and damn I am going to miss Lady Tyrell! And I'm so glad that Diana Rigg had a great role at her time of life, I hope she wins an emmy. And the thing about this season is that I have been bitching about the clumsy plotting, yet some of the scenes are absolutely great! I'm going to keep watching in spite of my carping.