English dub vs. Original Japanese dub - Gake no ue no Ponyo (2009) Discussion

[–] toddtw 15 years ago

It's weird, but this is one of the only animations I prefer with the English dub over the original language dub. I think because it's geared towards children and relies more on the visuals and music than the script, it's nice to not be distracted by the subtitles. Ponyo's English voice actor can be grating to my ears but otherwise I think they all do a good job, especially Tina Fey.

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[–] jayembee-1 15 years ago

Generally speaking, I prefer original language with subtitles, but the Disney dubs of Miyazaki's films work surprisingly well. I'm still inclined to watch them on DVD in Japanese, though.

With Ponyo, however, I found myself preferring the English dub. I just rented it on Blu-ray (it's the first Miyazaki film to be released on Blu-ray -- at least in the US), and was somewhat disappointed to find that the Japanese language track was in Dolby Digital 5.1, while the English language track was in DTS-HD. The latter has a notably greater presence to both the music and effects, and ended up being just a more enjoyable experience overall.

(The art, of course, looks absolutely stunning in HD. I hope Disney releases the other Miyazaki films in Blu-ray ASAP.)

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[–] skstylezz 14 years ago

yes i agree, Tina fey really stood out! but hey, we know how the directors intended it and that is in Japanese. But u have to realize, they are marketing in Japan. When marketing to people who GREW UP on the west there are certain changes that we would prefer such as.... a language we understand. You can still be a total anime buff and watch everything in original but that's up to you, when the english dubs are superb in most every transfer now (tv shows too). I think the best standing dub was Howl's moving castle

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[–] fluffset 9 years ago

Never watch the original japanese dub but I think the english dub sounds really great & perfectly matching.

THRILLER IS MY FOOD!

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[–] thechic101 14 years ago

I hate when people say crap like "I prefer the Japanese version." So what, you can read subtitles all day? It makes no sense. Unless you speak fluent Japanese or the mouths and the words don't match, I don't see the big deal.

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[–] guaili 14 years ago

The "big deal" is that movies in their original language have a certain personality that is lost when they are dubbed, except in very rare cases. While many (like you, I suppose) don't care a bit about that, some of us do and prefer the original tracks and yes, we will read the subtitles all day long.

Ponyo, btw, would be one of those rare cases when the English dubbing works remarkably well.

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[–] Spixe 14 years ago

"The "big deal" is that movies in their original language have a certain personality that is lost when they are dubbed"

I don't mean to troll or anything, but I believe this to be untrue and is entirely subjective. I have collected over 400 anime movies, and watched thousands of anime tv shows in my time, and while completely *beep* dubbed versions definitely exist, I feel many of the [Eng] dubbed versions are just as good as the original.

In fact, as I was watching another anime just the other day, I made a general realization to myself that I prefer English dubbing (as long as it's done professionally and with quality, unlike many Chinese dubs I've come across) because; Firstly, having voice dialogue helps us in determining a characters feelings and personality, much more than reading text and trying to assume via intonations of a language we do not understand. Secondly, vocal interpretations can fit in much more meaning, or more literal translations, into the couple seconds a character might speak in, rather than only what one can read in the same time frame. If you watch many of these anime movies, I THINK even Ponyo, you'll see an example of this. Watch it with English dubbing AND English subtitles. You'll see the characters are able to say more and express more via the words they use than the subbed characters that flash across the screen at the same time. So for this reason also I prefer dubbing. Also like someone mentioned, it lets you focus on the actual scene taking places rather than keeping your eyes locked at the bottom of the screen. That's 3 reasons I prefer dubbing. However, just as legitimate reasons to prefer original languages stand to reason as well. Especially on none anime works.

So in my humble opinion, many of these movies do not lose a certain personality when dubbed, but in fact gain it (with quality dubbing into a language we understand). I also don't think this is as rare as guaili might think. Just my two cents.

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[–] guaili 14 years ago

No offense, but the problem you got is that you may not be used to reading subtitles, and can't do it fast enough. In Puerto Rico (where I live) all movies in theaters are subtitled (unless they are in Spanish), so you get used to it and learn to read faster without losing the grip of the story. If you are used to not reading subtitles for a movie and then suddenly are thrown into it, then yes, it won't be a good experience.

As for what I meant for "personality", it has nothing to do with whether or not you understand what they are saying, but how they say things. That is lost in dubbings from Japanese to English, Spanish, etc. The loss isn't as great within European languages, but it's always best (to me) to see the original. 99% of the time nothing beats the original. That doesn't mean that dubbings can't be good, though. Some dubbings are great and, indeed, better than the original (the Spanish version of The Simpsons comes to mind), but it's rare.

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[–] mcbare 14 years ago

I agree with you. It may be considered more "correct" to prefer the subtitles, but I've gotten to the point where I want to dive completely into the movie, not read it. I'll take some delivery imperfection over the feeling of being one step removed from the film that I get when I have to read dialogue.

Being fully engaged in a movie requires the viewer to not be sitting passively. You think about what is happening, form judgements, make associations, figure out symbolism, etc. But your mind seldom has to conjure up what you're seeing. Reading,on the other hand, requires a great deal of mental activity as you do have to conjure the story that is unfolding as you read it. When I have to read dialogue, it creates a dissonance where my mind is processing the written word as it's used to doing, while the action is being shown to me simultaneously. This keeps me from completely "falling" into the movie, which I love to do.

Also, human minds process the audible word faster than the written word.

And speaking as someone who has been watching art house movies since the late 70s, and reviewed them exclusively for three years in college. I've seen more than my share of subtitled movies. "The Scent of Green Papaya" was always one of my favorites. It was years before I realized part of my love of that movie was that there were few subtitles since there was little dialogue. Thus I fell into the movie and it captivated me. Anyway, as I've gotten older and care less about what people think, I decided I prefer to be honest about the fact I get into a dubbed movie more than I get into a subtitled one.

Agreed that it is not that rare. But most people are too intimidated by the elitist, one-size-fits-all cinephile purists to be open about it. :)

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[–] machtyn 14 years ago

I agree, when the dub is done well, I will prefer the dubbed version over the original. I want to watch the visuals and take in the audio. I miss visuals, particularly in action scenes, when I'm reading the text. Anime is meant to be viewed, and every scene has a large amount of detail to take in. Witchhunter Robin, Cowboy Bebop, and others are difficult to "watch" when I'm trying to read.

Now, there are times when the transfer may have been done well, but the original feeling was lost. This has happened for me in a couple of popular anime series. (It's been awhile, so if I get the series wrong, forgive please). I believe one of those was Cowboy Bebop. The original voices for Spike, Jet, and Faye sound more appropriate to their characters. Though, I could go either way with Jet. I think I had a similar experience with one or two characters from the Dragonball Z series and Trigun. (For a very weird effect, I caught a bit of a Spanish dub of DBZ with English subs. The vocals may have been appropriate for a Spanish or Hispanic audience, but it really caught me off guard, heh.)

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[–] suz-mal 14 years ago

The problem with the Disney dubs is that they're all so incredibly lame. The American accents are just irritating, and the corny jokes they throw in every silent gap are just ridiculous. Also, the script is completely paraphrased and Americanized, which only adds to the lameness. And in the case of Ponyo, who can forget the god-awful cover of the song in the end credits, and then the even worse remix that followed. Am I the only one that wanted to tear the ears off my head when that started?

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[–] DCI77 13 years ago

"The problem with the Disney dubs is that they're all so incredibly lame. The American accents are just irritating, and the corny jokes they throw in every silent gap are just ridiculous."

Not for a good majority of Studio Ghibli English dubs.

"Also, the script is completely paraphrased and Americanized, which only adds to the lameness."

No it's not completely paraphrased and Americanized. They usually translate and the US director uses that translation to make his/her own script that resembles, as close as possible, the original Japanese scripts. Dubbing to match the anime mouth movement is not easy and most of the Ghibli dubs are rather good. In translation things will always be lost so it's inevitable.

"And in the case of Ponyo, who can forget the god-awful cover of the song in the end credits, and then the even worse remix that followed."

So you're say the end credits and the auto-tune completely speaks for the 2 hours that came before it? That's laughable.

The Interrupters, Le Havre, Chan-wook Park - Stoker (2012)

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[–] silverred999 10 years ago

The english dubbing is almost always horrible to a european like me. Ponyo is no exception. Emotions are not expressed as lovely, and they give lackluster performances. The only dubbing that lived up to the japanese was steamoy with the only excpetion being steamboy himself, horribly dubbeb by anna paquin. Mononoke is awful in american voices, and arietty is laughable. Americans are almost always horrible at dubbing. The cat returns, steamboy, and porco rosso as possible exceptions

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[–] silverred999 10 years ago

The english dubbing is almost always horrible to a european like me. Ponyo is no exception. Emotions are not expressed as lovely, and they give lackluster performances. The only dubbing that lived up to the japanese was steamoy with the only excpetion being steamboy himself, horribly dubbeb by anna paquin. Mononoke is awful in american voices, and arietty is laughable. Americans are almost always horrible at dubbing. The cat returns, steamboy, and porco rosso as possible exceptions

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[–] jbw470 14 years ago

If you're that committed to the original version, then turn off the subtitles. I'm sure that both hearing and reading dialogue wasn't part of the filmmaker's artistic vision. Otherwise go sell your pretensiousness somewhere else. I'm not impressed.

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[–] r_e_panzer 14 years ago

" I'm sure that both hearing and reading dialogue wasn't part of the filmmaker's artistic vision"I believe he suggested to do so, just to see what he meant, that the English dub will be different then the English text at the bottom. None the less, I see no reason for the pretentious remark, it will only upset the discussion negatively.

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[–] blakep267 14 years ago

i understand y some people want to be purists and read subtitles, but the miyazaki dubs are great quality. Stuff like naruto or bleach i prefer to read subtitles, but Miyazaki films bring an all star voice cast and dont dissapoint. It helps you get into the movie and makes it alot easier than having to read and watch at the same time.

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[–] escamillio 14 years ago

Nothing replaces the immediacy of understanding the spoken word. everything else is filtered through your subjective opinion of what you think he is expressing when you read the words. and on the whole I find this whole discussion rather absurd since this is a film aimed at children who neither speak Japanese or are able to read. WTF. since the dubbing industry is wholly owned by the film studios themselves it is part of the protectionist racket going on in the united states that cheats not the movie buffs who read stuff like this but the general public from enjoying movies filmed in anything other than English. and before you flamers out there get on your high horse about going native and go on the "I understand the intent of every language out there even though it sounds like gibberish to me" sermon: the original is only as good as it emotionally reaches the audience. If the original is soooo superior why don't you go watch most of the Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns in the 6 to 8 languages the way they were filmed. sorry for the rant but as a speaker of many languages I find the arrogance of English only speakers who sit in judgment of how a Japanese text is spoken and inflected stunning. If you have no idea of the mentality of the language you are hearing you are fishing and guessing for meaning when you read it. I have worked in translation quite a bit and what you read on the bottom of the screen is by no means at all time true to what they are saying at the time. Once again this is a film aimed primarily at children not us who read and post stuff here.

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[–] yanosakamoto 14 years ago

Yes you are right , since the movie is for children I think it is pretty normal it is dubbed in other countries than Japan . If the job is well done , then it's OK, period . If you impose reading on small children , they won't like cinema .
And it seems that in Europe everybody can stand dubbing well , soi yes if you want a large audience to enouy a foreign movie, dub it , or else it will attract only people who are used to subtitles .

Can't sleep at night

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[–] suz-mal 14 years ago

--Otherwise go sell your pretensiousness somewhere else. I'm not impressed.--

Nobody gives a sht if you're not impressed you ignorant moron.

I agree with dubbing taking away a certain personality, whether it's ultimately for better or worse. The best example I can think of is the original Dragonball show (not overly a fan, but it's not too bad). The character of Goku is completely different in the English dub - not just his voice but his mannerisms. I grew up on that version, and most of the Jap animated films I've seen I first saw in English, so I'm not biased. They are almost always better in Japanese. Also, I'd rather listen to a Japanese voice than an American any day. The generic tv American accent is just godawful (although, now so many films feature New England accents, which are kinda rad).

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[–] beebout 14 years ago

I thoroughly agree. I avoid dubbed films as a rule, and while I recognize that excellent dubs may exist, and that lousy subs certainly exist, I still default to the original language wherever possible. Perhaps I occasionally miss high-quality dubs of films I enjoy -- I still sleep just fine at night.

I don't invite people over to see that I watch films with subtitles, I watch them like that even when no one is looking. It's not pretension, simply preference. After decades of watching subtitled films in many languages, I am perfectly comfortable reading and watching at the same time. I'm confident I don't lose the intent of the cinematography by having my eyes momentarily rest at the bottom of the screen, even if you all are not.

If you don't want to read the subtitles, enjoy the dubbed version all you wish. If you can't help but feel that you're missing something scrapping the original language track, come on over to my place and we can share in an impromptu oratory on the lesser works of Virgil, or critique lesser-known mid-century varietals or whatever pretentious thing we dream up.

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[–] r_e_panzer 14 years ago

I'm 100% certain that evryone would prefer the dubbing in thier own launguage, but in order to translate for the movie, they also have to make the translated word match the talking in the film to characters mouth's moving, and in order to do so, they have to change the words. The people doing the dub may not be the best translators, and when they change the words, they may change what the scene was trying to portray. I believe that is the concern with dubbing, that the original movie in the original launguage, is the best version to watch, because they don't change the dialog to match what how the characters mouth is moving. Subtitlters just display what the character is saying, and they don't have to change it to how the mouths are moving. Even the slightest change in dialog can have a profound impact on the script, ecspecially if the person isn't that good at it.

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[–] Spixe 14 years ago

That being said, it brings me back to one of the points I made. Not that I disagree with you, but the issue of subtitle timing also has an impact on how something is translated. Guaili, this also can serve as a reply to you, because I don't think you got my "subtitle vs time" point.

Now, granted, some people can read much in a 1 second window. But sometimes, subtitles can be inaccurate because what the person says will be condensed into what can fit into one or two lines of subtitle. Whereas with dubbing, we are able to 'listen' to more than we can 'read' in the same amount of time. As I pointed out earlier, you can see an example of this in Ponyo. Watch it with Eng dubbing AND Eng subs, and you'll see they are slightly different, and end up 'saying' much more than you end up 'reading', as sometimes lines are left out and dialogue is condensed. This happens a lot on dub vs sub. So in theory, you end up getting more story, translation, content, whatever, in dub than you do in sub.

Like I said, not that I disagree or are arguing your point. I'm just saying it goes both ways. You illustrated a good example e_rep, matching dub to mouth movement is probably a big pain which requires quality dubbing companies and actors. Just gotta pray for quality I guess.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] piccolodiamou 14 years ago

After reading this whole thread, I wanted to comment on a few points that have been brought up (so I'm replying to the OP instead of another reply.)

I think that Studio Ghibli's films have generally had okay dubs. Some are better than others. If you compare these films' dubs to your average, non-smash hit dubbed anime series, they're FAR superior.

However, they're not perfect. I've heard mixed reviews of the Princess Mononoke dub, for example. I call that one out because of the star-studded voice acting cast. Some people really love it. In my opinion, some of the VAs did solid work, but some were below par and distracting. (Gillian Anderson's wolf, for example.) Spirited Away wasn't bad, but I Chihiro's voice was grating. Kind of like Ponyo's. (We don't seem to have a talented pool of child/child-like voice actors in the U.S. like they do in Japan.) Jiji's dub in Kiki's Delivery Service completely changed the character.

So, that said, I was kind of disappointed with Ponyo's English dub. Several of you have praised Tina Fey's performance. I actually thought she did a very poor job. Her delivery was flat and her timing was off. Not very believable. And I am not the only one on this board who found Ponyo's voice annoying.

In regards to the general argument about subtitles vs. dubs:
Some people are pretentious about this. Maybe I am too. But I generally prefer subtitles with the original Japanese VAs. I sympathize with those who have dealt with subtitle timing issues, and having to read the subtitles is in fact more work than just listening to your native language. Sometimes this is distracting. But if you've devoured as many subtitled series and movies as I have, you will probably find that you quickly grow accustomed to reading as you watch and listen. Once that becomes second nature, you'll start picking up on the vocal cues from the Japanese VAs. Different language? Sure. But with repeated exposure to common phrases and the accompanying (animated) expressions, it's a rare occurrence for me to watch something subbed and end up with a "buh?" sort of feeling. (The exception being anime full of puns and obscure idioms. With those, a dub is your only prayer of comprehending anything that's going on.)

Sorry for the novel, but to wrap up, this is certainly all subjective, as someone said. No need to belittle anybody or get hostile. For all my love of subtitles, I still find some series (my "first loves" of anime, in particular) to be much more enjoyable in English. Three cheers for the English cast of Cowboy Bebop and FLCL! (And Trigun, even though Millie's voice is nooot goooood.)

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[–] TheMonkofDestiny 14 years ago

We don't seem to have a talented pool of child/child-like voice actors in the U.S. like they do in Japan.

...or there are and it's just that Disney tends to go with those that can deliver the excess amount of saccharine they desire. Personally I didn't find Daveigh Chase's Chihiro performance irritating, but Noah Cyrus's Ponyo did push my limits initially but as I've rewatched it I've started to tolerate it with a bit more ease.

The exception being anime full of puns and obscure idioms. With those, a dub is your only prayer of comprehending anything that's going on.

Spirited Away, though not full of them, has a scene where even the people who converted the story and script mentioned that they found it nearly impossible to portray the full intent of the scene as it originally was without making it sail over most of a foreign audience's understanding, so I'd agree with this.

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[–] FollicleMan 14 years ago

My question is, what's with the casting of younger siblings of teen pop stars? A Cyrus sister AND a Jonas brother? WHAT? They did a pretty good job though, I kind of liked how absurdly earnest and overexcited Ponyo sounded.

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[–] Brother_Costanza 14 years ago

The Ponyo dub is the best (and my personal favorite) dub of a Miyazaki film I've watched, but I still will watch the original.

No Top Hat, No Monocle, No Service

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[–] Jnbfwc 14 years ago

According to what I've heard, the final script isn't written until AFTER THE ANIMATION, thus, is is "dubbed" whether in Japanese or English, and the words had to be made to match the mouth, either way.

Also, wasn't the creator's original intention to work with Disney? Thus, the "intent" was to have it in English AND Japanese.
Thus, your statement is untrue.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] bart-229 11 years ago

There's really no "original" dub--dubbing generally refers to a substitute for the original audio. With animated features there's no original audio in that sense--it is always dubbed in the first place. It's not the same as dubbing non-animated movies, where there's an original (or "non-dubbed") version. And fetishizing original intent is just to commit the intentional fallacy.

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