it's pretty much impossible to get a true measurement of opinions on this, but i'll give it a go
(if i post the question on this board, everyone will vote for "lust, caution" & if i post it on the "black book" board, everyone will vote for that one)
anyway...
ang lee's 'lust, caution' or paul verhoeven's 'black book'
which of the 2 films do you prefer & why?
*spoilers for Black Book ahead*
Meh, I liked Lust Caution, but I liked Black Book better, if only because the Nazi officer turned out not to be as evil as all Nazi's must be in the movies and he pays for it in the end. I also liked that he knew his woman was Jewish and even suspected she was working against him but still wanted to carry on their affair. I also like how the Nazi's tricked the woman's partners into thinking she was a traitor and how she had to prove she wasn't.
Like I said, I liked Lust Caution, but Black Book moved me more and had more suspense in it.
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i'm a bit partial to "black book" also, mostly because i'm a fan of verhoeven's over-the-top style
i'd call it "pulp" history & for some reason it all works well in that movie
i thought "lust, caution" was beautifully filmed, but it is so damn heavy-handed & humorless... even though i know the subject matter doesn't really lend itself to levity
in "black book," verhoeven sends up wwII spy dramas - he gives a nod to conventions of the genre while playing with them a bit
both were good films, but i'd definitely give "black book" the edge
just was curious if anyone else felt the same way - the films are ripe for comparison
I was thinking the same thing as I watched this movie. Spy women of WW2, each knocking down one of the Axis powers of the time. Alot of sex in both movies which I am not that fond of in movies, but in both the point was that the women would do anything for their party of beliefs. Blackbook by a nose.
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My biggest problem with "Lust Caution" was that I didn't understand her motivation for putting herself in this dangerous situation. At first, it was a lark, something her student friends were doing. It was like a game. But 3 years later, she'd matured a bit and didn't have good memories of that time, yet still managed to be convinced to get involved. All because she had a crush on the one student? That seemed a bit weak, and it made the whole movie weaker for me.
In "Black Book" it was clear that this woman had suffered a great loss at the hands of the Nazis and she wanted her revenge.
"All because she had a crush on the one student?"
If you think she only did it for that, I really don't think you were paying enough attention.
Ironically, this isn't even ironic at all.
definatly Black Book, thought that was excellent, but found Lust, Caution very slow and uninvolving, only just made it to the end.
sharemany cirtics had missed that they went into great length to portray wang's love for acting and movie.
she saw the mission as an acting project -- after a frustrating 3 years of having to learn japanese language in order to continue her study for drama.
back on topic,
they r both v good, and a lot of comparisons to be made.
e.g. the difference in culture and characters of the guys before sending the girl to the enemy. the dutch 'consummated' and the kuang let another guy did it. etc.
I enjoyed (only slightly more) the black book because of the slightly more realistic and engrossing story lines. Plus the movie wasn't as dark (visual lighting) as Lust Caution. Lust Caution, looked kind of outdated.
shareanswer this: Ang Lee or Verhoven?!?
i watched 'lust caution' yesterday and man is it beautiful, he is really a cinematic master!
i don't know many that does his thing like Mr. Lee does.
i watched the 'black book' about a year ago and i must admit it's not bad but its far away from being great, far from deserving a 8.0 rating.
comparing those two, 'Lust Caution' is just so much better, it hurts.
I think it's definitely a personal preference thing. I liked Lust, Caution better because I liked the film's overly dramatic quality, the slow build-up, the beautiful scenery & camera work and I thought the acting was absolutely fantastic. But I also liked The Black Book, as well - it's just that Lust, Caution was more the style of film that I enjoy. A lot of people, I'm sure, will disagree and have different opinions.
They were both great films, imho. They just had two totally different styles, and I just loved, loved Lust, Caution.
to the OP, if you were to ask 24,194 people here, they would've answer
Black Book: (8.0) 15,754 votes
Lust C : (7.8) 8,440 votes
Now which do you think is better?
I don't think that's a good indicator - Lust, Caution got slammed by many US critics (and unfairly, I'd say - most seemed to be looking at the sex over the story) and I'm not sure it got the distribution that Black Book did. (Wikipedia says Lust, Caution showed on 143 US screen max; Black Book, with a less restrictive rating, had rights sold to 52 countries before it opened. In addition, it was The Netherlands' Oscar submission, which brings box office receipts, whereas Lust, Caution was disqualified as a submission because of the mix of the production crew.)
All this affects how many theaters each movie appeared at. And if fewer people could see Lust, Caution, of course the numbers would be lower.
And if fewer people could see Lust, Caution, of course the numbers would be lower.
Actually, most movies rating start out very high due to hype, but as more people see it, the eventual rating drops significantly. Anyways, it's hard to say, really.. there were many praises for Lust, Caution by critics too, if not more than black book.
there were many praises for Lust, Caution by critics too
That's about the same response in Asia too...most critics there were in line with the U.S view except in China where most critics had frowned upon this film.
Anyways, being an IMDB board which is accessed by people from all over the world, I think the rating is a fair indication of the result. The fewer people voting for it can be considered 'fans' of LC, and it could almost constitute as cult status. However if the mass takes hold of it, they will surely bring the score down.
Mahnola Dargis is the WORST cirtic i have ever read. not sure why he got that spot with NYT.
you can review the movies that he wrote...oldboy, e.g.
I have to agree. I can read the first line of her reviews and know immediately that she's the reviewer. Her goal doesn't seem to be to review the film, but to throw out some esoteric references in order to 'impress' her readers. Half the time, it seems as if the review could have been written without her having seen the movie. She rarely actually addresses the strengths/weaknesses of a film or provides a basic plot outline. This tendency actually seems to be spreading rapidly to book reviews, etc.
In college, I actually learned how to write a 'NY Times Book Review' from someone who actually had written some that were published. Believe me, they are not done like that now.
start up question is difficult to answer.
i liked both of them. lust caution is typical ang lee in the driver seat (and i like it when it is so), while black book is more colourful in the handling of its theme.
Sorry, but the question is sort of unfair.
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