MovieChat Forums > Se, jie (2007) Discussion > The ending and my take on it ***Spoilers...

The ending and my take on it ***Spoilers*****


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So the film built up a good case as to why she should hate this vile man.
I mean she couldn't wait for the resistance fighters to come in and blow off his head while they were making love.

Then suddenly, he gave her bling and that shiny diamond completely changes her mind and suddenly she is in love? What the Hell!!!!!!

Few things come to mind:

1) The ending serves as an example of how superficial and materialistic women are by nature; willing to sell out their virtuous beliefs and ideology even for a abusive and dubious relationship. She sold out the lives of her friends for goodness sake. We see this in modern society all the time; women marrying for money, only dating men with a fat wallet. I'm sorry but her facial expression when she saw that diamond was not convincing of her a woman who fell in love with the man or the relationship itself but a woman who fell in love with wealth and status.

2) The writer was trying to make the point that she fell in love with this vile person. But the film did a poor job of showing the progression from hate to love.
All I see was a woman enamored by the shiny diamond.

3) As the title implies, the main character had for a brief lapse in judgment and allowed her lust/love to get the best of her. When it was said and done, she realized it was too late and her action was indeed irrational.

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Well first thing is that she might have also changed her mind also because she did not see any of her friends outside of the shop, where they were before. Therefore, it was possible that she was in danger, so she might have changed her mind because she knew she was in danger.

>>But the film did a poor job of showing the progression from hate to love.
Well firstly, that would have made the movie three hours long, so I'm not too sure if they should have. That would have been too much. However, I agree they didn't do a good enough job on that - though I understand why they didn't.
Second, I think it deliberately let that out in the open so we can interpret what happened. A lot of the film spent The wonderful thing about the ending is that TOO much was going on at once that the climax is sudden and built upon one moment's decision.
Questions about why it took so long for Yee to pick up Wang at the Cafe stirs questions whether Wongs friends have been captured or not. She might have abandoned the mission and let him loose because if she went on with the plan and her friends were indeed captured, she too would have been danger, thus she had to let him go.
Lastly, I believe a lot is up to interpretation in this movie - which is truly the beauty of the film. Films that are up to interpretation are quite frequent in China, and many movies purposely leave plot holes for this reason.
I think maybe if you read the original story it's possible you can get a better understanding on what happened. It did for me, at least.

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Maybe you didn't see the uncut version (which I saw in Taiwan).

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I found it hard to like the film ( I saw it yesterday). But I didn't perceive the portrayal of female avarice and betrayal mentioned by 24 Freak.

I thought that her muttered "Go! Now!" saved his life. It seemed to come suddenly from a deep well of sentiment rather than any thought-out ploy. Yee's precipitate response (creating, for me, the only humour of the entire film) showed that his instinct for self preservation was paramount. The end of the film gave the impression that Yee had the power to decide the destiny of the young conspirators. That he took the line that was of least risk to his own skin, and took the life of one to whom he had become extremely close was awful.

So from my interpretation of the end, one could say that the film illustrated the fact that males are power-mad and cowardly. But I really do not think that this film was peddling gender politics. Was it?

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if you think that she's all about money and diamonds, but what about the guys from the resistance who used her for all this (especially the guy who burnt her letter?). They probably couldn't care less for her. I thought that she loved Wang Lee Hom, but since things got our of hand, everything was messed up.

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I didn't see it that way, although I can see where you're coming from lol! I don't think it was the fact that he gave her the ring. The expressions on Wei Tang's face conveyed to me that she suddenly realized that she loved this man, she was touched by the GESTURE and his unexpected words of love- she saw past his cold exterior, maybe?
Anyway, I thought this jewelry shop scene was powerful - my favorite scene in the whole movie. Great acting on both sides.

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I just watched this last night....I think she did care for Yee in some fashion. And hated him as well. I think she knew his affection for her was genuine and realized the power she had over him and enjoyed it to an extent. Yes, he brutalized her, but when he leaves her on the bed...she smiles a little. And when you compare her first experiences and then her experience with Yee....no matter what she said I think she enjoyed the relationship on some level. I think she decided to warn him because the moment was on....she knew it was coming right then...as he was basically declaring himself in a way. She couldn't go through with it. She felt the emotion behind the action.

I think Yee felt very betrayed and humiliated by being fooled by her obviously. When the other man mentions they had been watching them and knew about her and never told him because of the relationship, he feels foolish. He refuses to see her because he still cares for her and I think he's afraid he may not be able to carry out his decision if he does. But yet, he still sees the ring as hers.

Great movie.....

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benjie, that's pretty much exactly what i was going to say.

and yes, this is a great movie.

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I agree with Benjie, I don't think that the movie was trying to show her as being superficial and materialistic...I think she had genuine emotion for him.

When she was talking about him getting his head blown off, I think she was not saying that she couldn't wait for that to happen, she was trying to describe how emotionally screwed up she was getting by the whole setup. She was saying that this man was working his way into her heart, she was really falling in love with him, and meanwhile as they made love, the whole time she was wondering "will this be the moment when they bust in and kill him"? A horrible situation for her.

The diamond was symbolic of his love. If you look at his face when he watches her put it on, you can tell he loves her and she realizes it too.

Besides, my goodness, she had to realize that by saving him, she was killing herself. She wasn't ever going to be able to keep that diamond or live that rich lifestyle. So, avarice couldn't have been her motivation.

I would be interested in seeing the uncut version of the movie that tlitrus saw!

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She is clearly not driven by bling but being consumed by the man she is supposed to assassinate. The key scene of why she tipped Mr. Yee off was the one where she was meeting with the co-conspirators arguing about the life of a spy. If you recall, how she emotionally confessed how she endures the sex with Mr. Yee and how Mr. Yee is eating away at her... all the way to her heart through the desperation of the situation.

"What do you think this trap is? My body? Who do you think he is? He knows how to act better than you guys.

He not only wants to be inside my body, but worms his way into my heart like a snake. I'm like his slave, allowing him in. I can only "loyally" wait, playing my role, to get into his heart.

He'll make me bleed and cry in agony, before he's satisfied. That's the only way he can feel alive. In the darkness, only he knows this is all real.

--That's enough.

That's why... That's why I can let myself be tortured to breaking point, and still continue, till I can't take it any further.

--That's enough.

Every time after the final spasm, I think, "will it be this time?" Will our people rush in and blow his brains out? And his blood and brains will spill all over me.

--Stop it!"

It is clear at that point in the movie she is truly afraid that Mr Yee is worming his way into her heart and thereby engulfing her as his.

Also the third sex scene where Mr Yee's eyes are covered by the pillow shows that Mr Yee truly trusts and loves her since his biggest fear is the dark. Also, she (Wang) has an opportunity to grab a gun to shoot him while he is blinded by the pillow... She glances over but doesn't do it. Instead she breakdowns and cries while embracing Mr Yee. At that moment, Mr Yee has successfully wormed his way into her heart.

The ring is the last thing that hits us over the head that her feelings for Mr. Yee has completely consumed her mind, body, and soul. By the end of the movie it is clear that Mr Yee had won and she desperately wants to save him.

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My take is slightly different:

1) At some level both sides are using her: Yee for the sex and the revolutionaries to get at Yee.

2) She obviously has serious abandonment / father / acceptance issues -- a strong theme which plays throughout the film

3) The minute she realizes that Yee's initial "lust" for her has turned into genuine care -- recall the final scene at the ring shop "I'm not interested in jewelry, I only wanted you to wear it. You're with me."

See, this is the kind of commitment that she never received from her real family, from her father. This is the kind of commitment that, ironically, her fellow revolutionaries ultimately cannot provide to her. They speak about lofty goals such as country, national pride and loyalty, but recall that scene where she is given that cyanide pill from the head of the operation. This is what they have to offer her -- they use her and if things go bad, they cut her loose. Of course its a choice that she makes from the beginning, but as she begins to feel love (or whatever you want to call it), acceptance, etc. from Yee, she decides to save him the only person who truly cared for her.

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When I first finished the movie, I also, like many, thought how stupid could she be? She got her comrades killed for a diamond ring. After some thought I don't think she was stupid at all. Her character is actually pretty smart but emotionally, she is a mess. The bad guys are onto her comrades anyway. And, the diamond ring represents so much more than to her emotionally than its monetary value.

The whole operation is doomed to failure from the get go namely because they simply picked the wrong person to be the pivotal spy. Wong is just a simple girl; simple in the sense that she's very much like most people in that she wants someone to love, to be loved, probably have children and a family. Nothing's wrong with that at all. Unfortunately, she lives during a worn torn period. Throughout her involvement with the theatre group and induction into the resistance movement, she has shown very little fire for what they want her to do; instead, she just goes along in order to belong to something. This probably has to do the abandonment issue (by her father) that agoodfella has already mentioned.

After she got back to Shanghai from HK after the first ill-fated operation, she didn't join any resistance movement, she simple went back to school and lived a quiet, uneventful life for 3 years! No doubt she was traumatized by what happened in HK but also shows she has no real passion to be a freedom fighter. Again, she gets roped back in because of her infatuation with Kuang and with the idea of doing something for the country.

She lacks the fanaticism that Kuang has and the zealotry that the official contact exhibits. Without the fanaticism and zealotry to insulate her psyche from the degrading act of using sex to gain information (remember, this was 1930s in China, a very conservative society where women's virginity was held sacred) as well as to separate the emotions of her spy identity from her own. She just breaks down when she perceives (rightly or wrongly) that Mr. Yee has genuine feelings for her.

I'm not saying she's not patriotic; however, she simply isn't prepared to go to that kind of emotional abyss. Not many people are without the right kind of psychological makeup and mental training. Just like with all profession, to be a super spy is reserved for a selected few.

She is the tragic figure because sadly, they pick the wrong person and the wrong person let the situation carries her to someplace where she is not equipped to deal with.

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The whole operation is doomed to failure from the get go namely because they simply picked the wrong person to be the pivotal spy. Wong is just a simple girl; simple in the sense that she's very much like most people in that she wants someone to love, to be loved, probably have children and a family. Nothing's wrong with that at all. Unfortunately, she lives during a worn torn period. Throughout her involvement with the theater group and induction into the resistance movement, she has shown very little fire for what they want her to do; instead, she just goes along in order to belong to something.

I agree very much with this. Apart from the obvious lack of deep concern from her comrades, this was the other reason why the operation had failed: she wasn't a fierce freedom fighter like the others were. I don't remember very well the beginning of the movie, but I remember that her love for Kuang had played a very important role for her taking part into the operation. I remember her staring at him in awe when he was on stage in a patriotic pose - she might even imagined herself patriotic because she wanted to feel close to him.

And after that, when the real ordeal had started, she just... went along with the stream. It was more a sense of general duty, than a sense of patriotic duty that made her carry on. Especially since, close to the end (when she gives the speech about Mr. Yee sliding slowly into her heart), it is obvious that she didn't have any hopes of getting together with Kuang after the operation would have finished.

Dave Jenkins. Calder Benson. Jim Cooper. Chuck Youngblood.

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My take on it is that she is a stupid woman. Not only did she avoid doing THE thing she was trained for but she basically signed the death sentence of all her friends in order to save someone who is considered a traitor. Wonder how she felt when she ended up on her knees near the ravine as she saw each of her compatriotes being shot in the head.

I have absolutely no sympathy for her character. She is just as feeble and despicable as the infamous Mr Yee.

As a matter of fact, who had any feeling at all for any of the characters of this movie?

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Feydora - congrats, you are the only response i've read on this film that gets it. She was the femme fatalle from hell. She gave in to lust and greed, and cost her countrymen their lives. You can't possibly get any worse than that. Can't believe all these people feeling sorry for her. I mean c'mon. I do differ with you in that I did feel sorry for the kids that had to die, just for wanting their country back. They are the heroes. She's just a dumb greedy bitch.

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What a cowardly take. She did all the work, took all the risks, made all the sacrifices. It was her decision to make.

Those idiots sat around not killing him on countless occasions, and let her be used.

She was stronger and smarter, she carried all the weight. It was her call.

I don't feel sorry for her, but neither do I feel sorry for the others. The others heroes? Lazy idealists with no concept of real sacrifice.

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I think that many people here are being taken over with romanticism. Those two were never in love. In lust, maybe. In love, no.

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I totally agrees with you.

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it wasn't so much the diamond, but recognizing that it was the best he could do to show he actually felt something for her

it moved her

twisted as it was, the "relationship" was the closest thing she knew of love (everyone in resistance movement just wanted to use her)

under all the garbage, i think there was *some* sort of feeling between the two

her telling him to run was the best she could do to return something to him

the ending was tragic, but that was the crux of the whole thing

there is a flashback moment of her on the stage in a forest & the group calls her up to the balcony



ultimately, i think her decision at the end was her only true act of free will

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Who cares if there were "feelings" between those two. They were both TRAITORS who cost the lives of their fellow countrymen. If we should ever be invaded by another country, hopefully brave men and women would step up as the kids did in this film. Any citizen that would aid and comfort our enemy sure wouldn't deserve praise. You know, I think about the great men and women throughout our history who've sacrificed so much for us, and wonder what they would think of these liberal lard-heads we have today. It sure scares me.

mea-12

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[deleted]

Who cares if there were feelings between those two.


i do

you have to look at ang lee's films as a whole to understand the thematic similarities

feeling are a very important part of the film, sorry

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"I do you have to look at ang lee's films as a whole to understand the thematic similarities feeling are a very important part of the film, sorry"

I understand it's importance to the film, however, aren't we discussing the characters in this film and the reasons they did what they did? I just don't understand people sympathizing with traitors because they had "feelings" for each other.

mea-12

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I'm talking about people sympathizing with traitors because they had "feelings" for each other.


of course people sympathize

you have to understand there is a struggle between duty & free will in this film

think of the scene where she is wandering in the forest on the school stage & the group calls her up to the balcony

that moment was played twice for a very specific reason

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To me, it's a film about a person who gives in to lust and greed, and causes the death of her fellow countrymen. The reasons why only she could know. My sympathies lie with her comrads, certainly not with her or her demented lover. Heartbreaking seeing the faces of the doomed resistance fighters seconds before they were shot in the head. Yes, she is quite the femme fatale, which really makes this a wonderful example of modern noir.

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I think she realized she was used and let down by the resistance as well. Both sides are manipulating her.

He softens her with his admission of being a "whore" for the Japanese at that Japanese nightclub. He realizes the end is near with the Japanese losing the war. There's a sense of nihilism. I think his admission endears him to her.

In the end, she tries to save him even though she knows she is doomed either way -- he was on to her, she can't trust the resistance either -- and when she gets captured, he betrays her.

But after the end of the movie, we are left with the probability of him paying for his involvement with her. The police search his house. So he is perhaps doomed as well for complicity. (And after the Japanese surrender, he is surely doomed)

Maybe this is a movie about betrayal, loyalty, and moth-to-the-flame self-destruction for love.




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Nobody has mentioned the unrequited love between the leader of the young spies who refuses to initiate her sexually early on in the film... If the handsome one she cared for had made love to her to prepare her for Yee, perhaps she would have been fortified by previous feelings of love and wouldn't have been so vulnerable to becoming attracted to Yee. As it was, the nerdy student rebel and her deadbeat dad were probably her only intimate experiences with men. It was foolish of the resistance to use one so inexperienced to try and trap the ultra-experienced Yee. That said, her freshness was part of the charm so it's a bit of a Catch-22, I suppose... Anyway, it's a lovely film with great acting and beautiful cinematography and music.

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Yes, she is quite the femme fatale, which really makes this a wonderful example of modern noir.


good noir observation

but you have to acknowledge that even noir operates on an emotive base

true this film can function as a noir, but i don't think you can dismiss feelings for the characters from the equation

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"true this film can function as a noir, but i don't think you can dismiss feelings for the characters from the equation"

Yes, the characters generate emotions, which in turn brings out the viewers emotions. On this we agree 100 percent. I just don't sympathize with or forgive them for their misdeeds due to their uncontrollable emotions. Sundog4, I think we agree more than you think we do.

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I think it's bizarre that people believe she should have some sort of loyalty toward the resistance. These people are prostituting her. From the very beginning her "friends" know she's going to have to sleep with this man who is dangerous, they are discussing who gets to pop her cherry, so to speak. These people aren't her friends. Everyone in this group gets dragged into something they don't understand because their leader feels some sort of guilt for not being able to fight in the war and then get stuck there when they kill Tsao. Ultimately, however, she is the one put in the ultimate line of fire and they are the one's burning her letters to her father. The resistance isn't loyal to her so why should she be loyal to them.

I don't mean to say that Yee is good because they are bad. In the end both parties are using her, but in the end only one of them seems to really care for her and so she opts to save him. It's understandble to me. It's not so black and white, good side, bad side.

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"I don't mean to say that Yee is good because they are bad. In the end both parties are using her, but in the end only one of them seems to really care for her and so she opts to save him. It's understandble to me. It's not so black and white, good side, bad side."


They're both traitors, and yes it's totally b/w. He had his fellow countrymen tortured and executed. She gave in to her own greed, causing the death of her comrades. How can anyone possibly sympathize with traitors. You know, every traitor has his/her own selfish reasons that they do what they do. So what, it's still the most heinous act a person can commit. Why doesn't ANYONE see this?

mea-12

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I never said they weren't traitors and I'm not sympathizing I'm empathizing. She was having a sexual relationship with this man for all the wrong reasons, for her country and the resistance, and she became attached. I don't think it has anything to do with greed, that's just human. Most humans become attached to the people they screw. I'm not defending Yee's actions either. He was a bad man, and that in part is what makes the movie so interesting. He was despicable, but that he seemed to love her more than any one else that interacted with her in the movie, he did. People fall in love with psychos and schizos all the time, people fall in love with bad people despite themselves and this is understandable because it's human.

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I guess it's not understandable to me, but then I love my family, God, and country more than I could possibly love a traitor.

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What can be said of an individual who constructs his world-view through spectacles lined with blind-faith? Well, one could suggest a new pair of glasses.

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"What can be said of an individual who constructs his world-view through spectacles lined with blind-faith? Well, one could suggest a new pair of glasses."

Blind faith? Please explain as it relates to my post.

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"You know, every traitor has his/her own selfish reasons that they do what they do. So what, it's still the most heinous act a person can commit. Why doesn't ANYONE see this?"

You're absolutely right, and I see just as clearly as you the selfish acts commited by cowardly bands of traitors like the American Founding Fathers. That they would display such outrageous disloyalty to their country, even to the point of killing their own country's armed forces... I understand how chilled you are by acts like this.

And just like you I feel nothing but contempt for the treason committed by the so-called democratic student movement in China's Tiannenmen Square. Could they have been any more selfish? Did they deserve anything less than being shot down in the streets like the traitorous, country-hating dogs they were? And most heartbreaking of all... that one Chinese traitor, forever nameless, who refused to roll his tank over a lone cowardly student, and by doing so legitimized the traitors' cause.

Shocking, the disloyalty some people will display to their countries. Always shocking, and never, ever justified.

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Kill joy - why not include failed plots against Hitler, Mussolini etc...

I do understand your point, (and I agree) but to be fair, I also think you know the point I was trying to convey.

Best,

mea-12

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In the end both parties are using her, but in the end only one of them seems to really care for her and so she opts to save him. It's understandble to me. It's not so black and white, good side, bad side.


this is what i got out of the film as well

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The resistance may be disloyal to her, like burning the letter, but she doesn't know that.

She knew what she was getting into when she took the 'job'. She knew she would be used by her country men and enemy, but she took it for the sake of her country.

Only, the affair of the heart is too strong to make her do anything rational. Her country men should've been prepare for such thing. They were the stupid ones to let things go too far between her and yee. They should've gone for the kill when they had a chance. It was mainly the leader's fault.

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In the beginning I think she is naive and dumb to be used like this and didn't understand why she choose to save him. But your comment made me realise. I agree that Mr. Yee truely cares for her and the diamond is only symbolic. That's why, thanks for making the movie made sense for me.

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Totally agree that her "friends" are prostituting her and the other poster's view of her father's abandonment being a driving force in her personality. Also her letter to her father is burned because they are not planning on sending her to England after the successful completion of her assignment. She will die no matter what happens. I imagine that if Yee was successfully assassinated, she would be the number one suspect and her friends would have to kill her to protect their own identities.

Also Yee tells her that the Japanese side is doomed because America has entered into the picture. So he is already a dead man. Why would her friends bother to kill him? She knows that the real reason her friends haven't killed Yee yet is due to the missing shipment of arms (from the US). Neither Japan nor they have it. anyway, that means there's another player in the game but this player is not seen in the movie.

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Just read the short story by Eileen Chang, which comes with an afterword by Ang Lee. I highly recommend it. The written story makes it abundantly clear in several instances that her "friends" and her are not close at all. She's intelligent enough to know that Wu thinks they will mess up. Also Wong Chia Chih has nagging fears in the jewelry store that her friends won't be able to get her to safety and that there's no getaway car because cars are hard to come by in Shanghai. Kuang Yu-Min assured her earlier that she wouldn't die in a hail of bullets, which any intelligent person would be worried about in an assassination. I don't think she really believes him.

In the movie, Ang Lee shows that Wong is not really part of the group of friends. Wong is always sitting or standing away from the group. Finally the forward by Julia Lovell explicitly says that writer Eileen Chang was apolitical and thought that private emotions of individuals was far more important than illusionary abstract ideals like patriotism. Historical happenings are merely a backdrop/setting on the stage of life.

I've studied feminist theory and lit in college, and there is definitely a dichotomy between writers who use lots of details (like Eileen Chang) and those who keep it to a minimum (like Ernest Hemingway). Women writers tend to gravitate towards lush, overflowing sentences which mention "trivial things". There are many interesting theories as to why. Ang Lee or rather the screen writers picked up on this.

In the movie, Wong starts to fall for Mr. Yee when he says that trivial details are important. They are able to understand one another because as a woman Wong is kept in the dark and away from the decisions that affect her life (by her father, Old Wu, and the group of students) while Mr. Yee has to submit to the Japanese officials in charge without knowing what is going on. All they have left are the "trivial details" such as the pink diamond ring, which is why the ring matters so much to both of them.

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But she didn't cause the the death of her country men. The ending makes it quite clear that the authorities were already aware of their existence and they were only waiting for the right time to act. They were goners no matter what she did. All she did was save Yee's life. The ending for the drama club was already in place.

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Exactly right!

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[deleted]

I'm glad they were all shot because they had it coming. It was inevitable that the entire operation was doomed from the start. They relied on ONE woman (a rather fragile and emotionally unstable one at that) to take the responsibility for all their actions. They exploited her constantly and deceived her, notice the scene where she asks that man to post the letter to her father and he just burns it. It was quite clear that when she had that emotional breakdown infront of the 2 men saying that Yee was working his way into her heart that she was emotionally involved with him, anyone who was her 'friend' or genuinely cared for her would know it would not be a good idea to continue with the operation yet they persisted.

However, I do not sympathise with her character nor do I think she should've been excused for what she did because she became emotionally involved, the ending was right where she got shot and he didn't choose to save her. The only mistake she made was thinking she could be something she was clearly not.

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This is the best most honest reply on this board. I agree completely.

It was terribly sad.

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I'm sorry, but you simply did not "get" the movie.

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