MovieChat Forums > Foundation (2021) Discussion > S1E8 - Luck & Feel Mary Sue

S1E8 - Luck & Feel Mary Sue

posted 3 years ago by Rorikon (17855)
8 replies | jump to latest

Now the 2 Michael Burnhams are growing in Mary Sue power. Gaal can feel the future which can screw psychohistory altogether and Salvor has extreme luck so jack plug her into the Invictus navigation seat folks. Well, at least Salvor won't be alive for Season 2. I presume since Gaal is in a 138 year cryosleep (unless she gets reawakened before reaching her destination).

I'm glad they didn't do away with Hugo as easy as I thought they would have as the white lover sacrifice but instead reached a beacon to hail in the Thespins for rescue. Invictus has shitty defense systems against small ships apparently...

The best piece of the episode of course is Brother Day (Cleon I) with great scenery shots and a bro bod only the finest chiseled chad could make that gets tanned to oblivion as he makes his pilgrimage to the salt lake. I guess clones can't see visions? He certainly didn't because it confused me at first that he'd order the death of Zephyr Halima so quickly after being supposedly 'enlightened'. I assume this is totally off the path of the books that Eto Demerzel (robot) may rebel in the near future against the Empire. She's too emotional now to my liking.

[–] TandyMan (11096) 3 years ago

I'd personally feel pretty bad ass if I didn't get a vision. Everybody gets one, even robots, but not me? I'm the single being in the universe unbound by fate? I can do anything.

I didn't get the Eto bit at all. Don't the robots in this universe all follow Asimov's 3 Laws of Robotics?

I mostly ignore the other bits of the show and just enjoy the action. They're so lockstep with other modern scifi shows it's all the same. I'm a sucker for the lost ghost ship dreadnaught scifi trope. That's always a lot of fun. And the sets and effects are just absolutely awesome.

[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

1. Egg wetter gree, visions are overrated.

2. I think Emo Demerol is a lesbian. She was very extremely upset at having to blow away Zephyr Himalaya.

3. I can't wait for the Scowlinator to toast Terminus and kill Dawn, Day and Dusk. Then the galaxy will be free of the three D's !

[–] Rorikon (17855) 3 years ago

Eh, they dropped the laws once Eto joined religion imo, lol.

Agreed. I too love the action, Lee Pace's voice, and most importantly the CGI. The painstaking CGI of the intricate diverseness of the the ships and intricate craft in this series that I wish we could see more of. I wish they remade all the old ST:DS9 or Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, etc. space battles to the newer standards of CGI. The Expanse does it wonderfully. After watching this series, I am hoping they make a Homeworld adaptation from the games. Those ships are marvelous.

[–] sunshine62 (252) 3 years ago

By Rorikon:

He certainly didn't because it confused me at first that he'd order the death of Zephyr Halima so quickly after being supposedly 'enlightened'

______

@ I think the death of Halima was a certainty either way ( had he finished or not The Spiral) even though I think removing her was not a wise move .. many of her followers will not believe her death was due to natural causes .. he made her a martyr.

I thought in Asimov’s lore robots could not harm human beings… but seeing Demerzel did poison Halima she is then likely to turn her back on Brother Day sooner or later.

( I don’t get why Demerzel did the Spiral .. it was no trial for her
her life was never in danger , she would have been fine when she got to the pond in the cave .. most get a vision after the physical tolls of The Spiral.. it doesn’t really make sense to me that she had a vision at the end)

Anyway Brother Day did not have a vision but why would he , he is not a believer .. and I don’t see why Demerzel went so hard on him when she understood he lied about his vision.

During The Spiral Brother Day showed compassion for the guy dying.. yes he did want to get info from him ( if he was having a version or heard voices etc ) but there was no need to put him off the trail so he would be saved. But he did.

I think Brother Day learnt a lot doing The Spiral ..it changed him … for the first time he suffered physical pain , fear , sense of dread and I like to believe that when he gets back to Trantor and finds out that Brother Dawn has been acting different , he won’t consider that anymore a negative thing ..

Brother Dawn’s unusual behaviour would prove that the Cleon dynasty is not stagnant afterall.

[–] Rorikon (17855) 3 years ago

I was leaning on the part of the enlightenment. Indeed it didn't matter if he finished The Spiral or not because he never saw a vision like all others before him so his mind was never swayed or changed.

Yeah, they've moved so far from the source material anything is possible at this point really.

Any non-believer can be a believer with the right enlightenment or mind blowing vision which he had none of other than learning to never give up and helping those that have helped you.

Indeed he has learned a lot during his trek and may not want to off his defective younger clone IF caught. I don't believe he had fear or dread else he wouldn't have taken the pilgrimage and did away with his nanobots and shield. Pain, fatigue, some worry but that's about it.

I don't believe they were ever stagnant to begin with as each one were unique in their own being OR they started getting laxed at being able to detect defects OR just some plothole.

[–] sunshine62 (252) 3 years ago

By Rorikon:

I don't believe he had fear or dread else he wouldn't have taken the pilgrimage and did away with his nanobots and shield. Pain, fatigue, some worry but that's about it.

@. Before the trial he was confident but during the trial for the first time he experienced physical exhaustion, he was vulnerable so I do feel at one point he felt fear of failure .. not being able to finish the trek.

By Rorikon:

I don't believe they were ever stagnant to begin with as each one were unique in their own being OR they started getting laxed at being able to detect defects OR just some plothole.

@. I agree each clone did have to deal with different situations during his life.

I think Brother Dawn is the first one to be different when it comes to personality,habits, interests, tastes in foods, desires..

He is colour blind , he interlocks his fingers the opposite way, he doesn’t like studying some scripts (?) , he has fallen in love..

[–] Mekratrig (176) 3 years ago

Spoliers...

In the books, the humaniform robot was R. Daneel Olivaw, the verisame robot from Asimov's Caves of Steel serie. At first bound by the 3 laws of Roboctics, Olivaw and a fellow bot named Giscard, togethar evolved the "Zeroeth law", which states a robot may not harm, or through inaction, cause harm to HUMANITY. Taking precedence ovar the first law, which states a robot may not harm, or through inaction, cause harm to a human being it thus allowd a bot to hurt/kill individual humans.

[–] sunshine62 (252) 3 years ago

@ to Mekrsting.

Thank you for providing insight on the matter .. this would explain why Demerzel killed Brother Dawn. He was causing a deadly rift between the other two brothers and the well-being of the the Empire itself was at stake.

Demerzel killing Halima instead raises issues.

We know that Demerzel worshipped Halima , she went down on her knees after Halima’s detrimental speech against the Cleon Empire .. referring to the Cleons soulless copies of the original.. that they had not evolved for 400 years. ( stagnation)

Before the trial, Halima was definitely a concrete threat to the Cleon Dynasty.

After Brother Day completed the Spirale and won over the council with his vision , Halima openly acknowledged and accepted that their gods had favoured Brother Day … so she was no longer a threat to the Cleons.

So shouldn’t Demerzel have been unable to act against Halima?

Brother Day “defeated” Halima using her own religion against her. She had no choice but to step aside .. to continue her crusade against Brother Day would have cost her her credibility with her followers.

Brother Day had Demerzel kill Halima not because she was a threat anymore to him/them but because she had dared to challenge his/their status.