Narnia Needs More Diversity!!!


Has anyone noticed that Narnia or atleast the movie is lacking alot of diversity. By that I mean racial wise because I don't see anything other than caucasian, spanish-influenced people(though thats a big change from the first movie), but what I mean from that is there is barely any (dare I say on my behalf) not so many black or african-american people. I know that there'd hardly be a black person in magical land such as Narnia not to be racist against my own kind but me being of that race myself and watching this movie I couldnt help but feel alittle dissapointed and bad that they didnt put other races such as mine in there. And although I know that some of the centaurs were black but they were centuars not humans and I mean that Narnia does not have any black people who are humans like the other caucasian chracters. Share your opinions on this topic on whether you feel I am right or wrong.

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Well, in the first one, the only humans were the children, which are white according to the book. (Oh, and the white witch, for the same reason as well.)

And in the second, there was just them and the Talmeranians. I suppose they could've made them black, but..well, they didn't. Obviously it's not because they didn't want to, but more because that's just how it happened. (By the way, they might've been supposed to be Spanish in the book as well. I don't think the die hard fans would've liked it if they completely changed the race of the people.)

Sure, it's been two movies with not much diversity, but it's not like they have tons of chances to include all different kinds of people. Narnia is mostly populated by animals, afterall.

---

"I know, you had it sorted."
- Edmund Pevensie

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All I can say is, does it really matter?

Voyage of the Dawn Treader (2010), Jurassic Park 4 (200?),

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The books aren't racially diverse so why should the movies be? Too many people are worried about being politically correct when it comes to movies. Make them in the spirit the books were written in, and the age that they reflect.

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uh, yeah if it took place in the real world then maybe but its freakin narnia. there werent black or asian people ther. until the Telmarines invaded it was just animals. and yes there are black, brown and white animals so thats about as much diversity as ur gonna get in a movie about narnia.

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it was written during the 50s genius
adding diversity wouldn't exactly be going by the book which so many of you whine about


Maybe i wanna do what bunnies do with you if you know what i mean

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Actually, If you look closely at some of the crowd scenes, you realise that some of the Telmarines (the rank and file peasantry at any rate) ARE black!

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... As well as Glenstorm(the noble centaur)and his 3 sons and wife.

Sale on VDT!

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If there was to be diversity as you suggest it should have been people of Polynisain descent or similar as the Telmarines were descendants of Pirates and South Sea Island women. Not to be offensive but why should there be "African American" people why not Anglo/African or French/African or African/African? Naria though, as someone else pointed out, does not have a genuine human population it was never meant to have one, in the beggining Aslan created it for the Talking Animals not humans, the only humans are those who get there by accident.

Cry God for Harry, England and St George

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Pirates were a pretty mixed bunch. They could hail from just about any port from the coasts of Europe or Africa to someplace in the Carribean. If the original pirate island is in the Pacific then Chinese, Melanesian or Malay origins cant be ruled out either.
So just about any ethnic mix for the Telmarines could apply.

Another thing about the Island occurs to me.
If the Telmarines are returning to the `real` world of the Pevensies in the same time frame then they are probably going to appear on a remote Pacific island sometime between June and August 1941. So they may just pop up in the middle of an area thats soon to be a war zone!
Of course Aslan could just send them to a different point in the past or future, hope he thought about it though.

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[deleted]

Another thing about the Island occurs to me.
If the Telmarines are returning to the `real` world of the Pevensies in the same time frame then they are probably going to appear on a remote Pacific island sometime between June and August 1941. So they may just pop up in the middle of an area thats soon to be a war zone!
Of course Aslan could just send them to a different point in the past or future, hope he thought about it though.


Aslan didn't say he was returning to the same time as the Pevensies, he said the same world. It never occurred to me that he was sending them back to the island in the 20th century. It seems to me that he sent them back to the same time period that they left.

One thing about the Telmarines gets me, it's been 1300 years, they still seem to be in a feudal society. Wouldn't they have had some sort of technological/social advances by now?

Team Jolie

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"It seems to me that he sent them back to the same time period that they left."

He sent them to the island after it had been deserted.

"One thing about the Telmarines gets me, it's been 1300 years, they still seem to be in a feudal society. Wouldn't they have had some sort of technological/social advances by now?"

They had gunpowder. Maybe all of the fighting and infighting prevented them from making to much technological inorads. They didn't even have guns. Also important is the knowledge of such things, imagination to think of them, and resources to build them.

But did they rule for 1,300 years in Narnia? Caspian I was known as Caspian the Conquerer as he was the one who led his people into Narnia and took it over while Prince Caspian was the tenth of that name. If only 10 kings came before Caspian X took the throne (the Caspians and Miraz), then that would not be enough time for the number of years to pass.

Bob

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It seems to me that he sent them back to the same time period that they left."

He sent them to the island after it had been deserted.


Are you talking the book or the movie? I'm talking the movie.

"One thing about the Telmarines gets me, it's been 1300 years, they still seem to be in a feudal society. Wouldn't they have had some sort of technological/social advances by now?"

They had gunpowder. Maybe all of the fighting and infighting prevented them from making to much technological inorads. They didn't even have guns. Also important is the knowledge of such things, imagination to think of them, and resources to build them.

But did they rule for 1,300 years in Narnia? Caspian I was known as Caspian the Conquerer as he was the one who led his people into Narnia and took it over while Prince Caspian was the tenth of that name. If only 10 kings came before Caspian X took the throne (the Caspians and Miraz), then that would not be enough time for the number of years to pass.


You mean only 10 kings who were named Caspian. It doesn't necessarily follow that every king who came after Caspian I was named Caspian.

e.g. Caspian III dies on the throne. Caspian III's brother JimBob takes the throne. He rules and has a son he names JimBob II and another son named Caspian. JimBob II dies of a stomach ailment 50 years later with no heir, so now Caspian II is king, but nearly 2 generations have passed.

So generations can be skipped.

I say 1300 years because at the end of the movie Susan tells Caspian that it never would have worked out [between them] because she is 1300 years older than he is.

The dwarf tells the Pevensies that it wasn't long after they and Aslan left that the Telmarines invaded. Now to invade a kingdom, you need an army to do so. A handful of ragtag pirates don't have that capability. So the pirates would have had to have come into the country named Telmar in the world of Narnia and developed a society of their own for quite a while, long enough for their beginnings to be forgotten before they had the resources to build and army and invade a neighboring kingdom. So the timeline in the movie seems off.

Team Jolie

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1300 years is a LONG time.
In `real world` terms is roughly equivalent to the time between the Viking period and the present or, on a more mythical note, between King Arthur and Queen Elizebeth II.
There is plenty of time here for a lot of history to happen between the rule of the Pevensies and that of the Telmarine king Miraz.
When Trumpkin tells the Pevensies that `It was shortly after you lot left that the Telmarines invaded` what precisely does he mean by `shortly`.
Most people, unless they read a lot of history are usually a bit vague on their knowledge of what happened before their own lifetimes so Trumpkins `shortly` could refer to a period 200, 500 or even 1000 years after the children left!
From his point of view he is talking about a time that he only knows about from stories and legends.
Its quite possible for the Telmarines to have invaded 3 to 500 years in the past and build it up their kingdom to the extent depicted in the story.
Consider the modern US and then go back 300 years.
In any case, the books themselves and the movie do suggest that the Telmarine race was known to the Pevensies during their reign (`Telmarines, in Narnia?`) so the original pirates probably settled in Telmar long before the time of the White Witch`s takeover of Narnia.
Once they had invaded there would be a lot of Telmarine kings, some would reign for long periods of time but I suspect that a lot lasted a couple of years before dying in battle, `hunting accidents`, falling off towers or in bed from severe cases of woodworm.


"Any plan that involves loosing your hat is a BAD plan."

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"In any case, the books themselves and the movie do suggest that the Telmarine race was known to the Pevensies during their reign (`Telmarines, in Narnia?`) so the original pirates probably settled in Telmar long before the time of the White Witch`s takeover of Narnia."

The Pevensies knew about the land of Telmar, not necessarily these Telmarines. Anything could have happened to the Telmar residents who were around in the time of the Pevensies. In the book, Aslan says that Telmar was deserted when the original pirates came in, but the reason of that was a long story that he didn't want to get into.

Peter's comment may have been so surprising because the inhabitants of Telmar when they were in power were peaceful and very much unlike these people.

Bob

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So Telmar existed before the pirates arrived?

I'm just asking because "Telmar" sound like a bastardization of "Del mar" which is Spanish for "of/from the sea".

Which, with C.S. Lewis' love of all things biblical, is similar to the "people of the sea" who were said to have invaded Canaan.

Team Jolie

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"Are you talking the book or the movie? I'm talking the movie."

I don't believe Aslan was specific in the movie, so we would then have to go to the book for answers.

"You mean only 10 kings who were named Caspian. It doesn't necessarily follow that every king who came after Caspian I was named Caspian."

I know, but there would have to have been a lot of other kings, upwards of 50 or more, if we are to believe that they have ruled in Narnia for 1,300 years. I would go for the more since they seem to be a group of conniving people at the top.

Another thing is that the Telmarine castle is relatively new. It was built by Caspian's great, great grandfather according to the book. Where did they live before that? Not in Cair Paravel. That is where the Old Narnians were hidden and why no Telmarine wanted to go into the woods around that area--it was supposed to be haunted according to their tales.

"So the pirates would have had to have come into the country named Telmar in the world of Narnia and developed a society of their own for quite a while, long enough for their beginnings to be forgotten before they had the resources to build and army and invade a neighboring kingdom. So the timeline in the movie seems off."

This is why I think the Telmarines came into Narnia about 500 years earlier.

Bob

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[deleted]

Have no fear. If they ever decide to do The Horse and his Boy, that book is loaded with Calormenes, or are "dark" skinned. You will just have to wait a few films.

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The Telmarines are of Greek influence. Not Spanish. Don't blame the film creators though, they're just putting the writings of C.S. Lewis onto the screen for us lazy folks to watch.

Jason Atwood
Glass Smoke Productions

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In the book Lewis makes it clear that the Telmarines were descended from Pirates who prowled the South Seas, have never heard of Greek Pirates there.

Cry God for Harry, England and St George

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The centaurs were black. What more diversity do you want? Did you want the Pevensies to be black?

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likekiki17 defines the term "white guilt".

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You know this is why PC is just totally stupid. Not everything has to be racially perfect in a movie. Seriously.

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And by "white guilt" you mean what? I am not white in case you havent noticed.

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I think it's a perfectly fine question. I didn't see any black telmarines. And there really is no reason why the makers of the movie shouldn't have wanted to have black Telmarines. They strayed from the story in many more important matters than the origin of the Telmarine ancestors. They might as well have shown a little more diversity. Although my guess is that it wasn't a choice that they made but rather due to a lack of diversity in the extras from the places they filmed it in (New Zealand, Prague, Slovenia and Poland).

That said, as a caucasian, I'm glad I don't get defensive when this sort of thing comes up. I'm glad I can at least handle it maturely and respectfully unlike a few of the posters in this thread.

Awesome football game http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=6734948

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Thank you for your honest opinion!

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"I didn't see any black telmarines."

Without being offensive perhaps you should have looked a bit harder, I spotted several in the crowd scenes.
What ethnic group for example is the servant girl who walks behind Caspian in the brief scene near the end where he`s looking for Aslan to talk to him?
What I saw with the Telmarines was a society with a predominantly European looking aristocracy and military but with an ethnicly more diverse peasantry.
Which is kind of consistant with their supposed pirate origins.

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That was a little Spanish girl, she wasn't black.

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you should really go to narnia and complain to them about their lack of migration. its horrible the way a group of people who basically live in the dark ages havent embraced multiculturalism. who cares if they dont have the technology for migrating masses of people, if theres a movie made about them then by god they should have invented it.

haha sorry couldnt help myself given how stupid you made yourself sound. its a fantasy world, black people dont have to exist. notice how all the white people sleep with their doors unlocked? wonder why...

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thatd make sense, a white person wouldnt make light of such a stupid issue.

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Jeez.
I think most people would have worked out you're 'not white' by the simple fact you SAW racial issues, when others wouldn't. You played the race card, causing unnecessary tension. The mere mention of race would have alerted most that you're probably part of the 'community' who obsesses about race.
Racism from whites never stemmed from skin colour, it has always been due to noticeable repetitive destructive characteristics. Stop delivering the expectation. Stop dividing.
How about independent, fair, strong-minded, selfless thinking instead?

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It's just the part of the Narnian world they come from. Telmarines are basically Spanish. Calormans are Arabic. I'm sure the world has some other part, probably near the equator, where the people are darker-skinned than the ones we've seen.

Wait a minute. I've just remembered Voyage of the Dawn Treader. The world is flat. They don't have an equator. In which case, if they do have black people, they have probably gotten there through the various rifts between the worlds, rather than being native.

Of course, humankind itself isn't native to that world; it was created for the animals. The first humans got there by following Aslan, and later some slipped through the rifts. None of the people who followed Aslan in Magician's Nephew were black, so any black people would be descendants of those who came through the rifts. If no black people have traveled through the rifts, then obviously there wouldn't be any in Narnia. I think it's probable that there are some; we just haven't bumped into them yet.

Anyway, whatever the in-story excuse, the fact remains that this is based on European mythology. When someone makes a movie about Africa, no one complains about a lack of diversity because the whole cast is black - it's realistic. Therefore, it makes sense for a movie based on European mythology to have a predominately white cast.

I know I'm rambling. It took me a while to get my thoughts sorted out. I'll stop now.

Cross my heart, smack me dead, stick a lobster on my head.

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Yeah, obviously within the frame of the story, there wouldn't be many black people, if any. And if they stuck to the story, I would agree. But considering how far they strayed from the story, they should have went the extra mile and added some diversity, imo.

Awesome football game http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=6734948

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i know! needs more Asians =D

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Well, I'm offended by history! We need to change the history books and change George Washington to Georgina Washington, a black, deaf, lesbian dwarf.
:P

I get really sick of the political correctness police expecting each and every movie to follow some formula to include a certain amount of various races, ethnicities, sexual preferences, etc.

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Regarding the OP, do you demand this of other countries fantasy movies? For instance, any number of the Kung-fu movies made in China? I don't expect to see much diversity, because the scope of the films are generally limited in geography. In fact I think it was a mistake to put a white kid in Forbidden Kingdom and ended up not seeing it. (I'll watch a film with Jet Li with subtitles, but not one with a white kid as a protagonist.)

If Prince Caspian showed all over the world and humans were common, I think it would be reasonable to see a lot of diversity. However, because it is very geographically limited, I don't see why the cast would need to look like your average American city. (Or your average tv show that merely subscribes to tokenism.)

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I like that is all caucasion. It makes the film more beautiful that way, and by that I mean a more attractive cast.

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Well that won't court controversy I see beauty no matter the skin color.

Bob

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Okay first of all I have something to say about this...little statement.
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"I like that it is all caucasian. It makes the film more beautiful that way, and by that I mean a more attractive cast."
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For starters, what is that supposed to mean? That only caucasians are attractive and no other races in the universe are? So if only caucasian people existed in this universe then it would be okay?

So If God created only lilies in the field of flowers without daisies, roses, violets, orchids or any other kind of flower would the gardens be just as beautiful?

If God only created one kind of fruit, Apples, for instance and there were no bananas, strawberries, grapes, plums, oranges, kiwis, etc, would the world be just as beautiful and attractive?

What about if there was only one of the color in the rainbow or the world was just plain green or brown? What if God didnt create different species of animals like lions, tigers, zebras, lambs, birds, etc?

Just like God created these different things and they all blend beautifully in the gardens, etc that is like how humans are we are all one blood with hearts, red blood, veins, brains, lungs, etc and the color of our skin should not prohibit us from being "accepted" by other people.

Now Im not calling or labeling your as racist or prejudice but I get the feeling that you think that other races besides "Caucasians" are UNattractive and that people with my brown skin are "ugly" or unattractive. Might I add that there are many beautiful pretty people who are non-caucasians and are just as or even more attractive than caucasians. I an african-american and I have known many caucasians who think and say I am attractive, good-looking. Many caucasian people have said I am beautiful and pretty and actually like the way I look. Are you saying that people outside of the "white" border are simply unattractive because of thier skin color?

In my opinion I dont race nor skin color has to do with having an attractive cast for a movie because I know if I auditioned or was given a role in a Narnia movie as a african-american human nobody would say I was ugly or less attractive becuase of my racial background. If you have ever heard the term "Black is Beautiful and Prejudice is ugly" or not you should take that quote into consideration.

*Main key point*
Not only "causasians" are Attractive or beautiful in God's or other peoples eyes!

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Haha, I knew my above comment would get someone riled up! I love it!

But no, likekiki17 is correct, caucasions wouldn't be near as beautiful in the eye of the causasion beholder if we didn't have other races to compare too. And I'm just speaking for myself when I say I find white people to be more attractive, that is only because I am white and just happen to be attracted to my own race more than any other races. Althought there are some exceptions.

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"Haha, I knew my above comment would get someone riled up! I love it!"

So you admit that you posted flame bait. You posted a comment with the intention of getting someone riled up? That is trolling behaviour.

"But no, likekiki17 is correct, caucasions wouldn't be near as beautiful in the eye of the causasion beholder if we didn't have other races to compare too."

That is not what likekiki said at all. She said that all "races" (I hate that term) are equally beautiful and diversity is what make all beauty shine brighter. She was saying that a garden of roses is beautiful, but a garden of roses, lilacs, and a wide variety of flowers is even more beautiful. Apples are great, but having the many other fruits to also taste is even better.

Believe it or not, attraction is slightly different than beauty. You have your own preferences for who you want to date or who you find physically attractive, but that does not mean that those you do not find attractive are not still beautiful. Pamela Anderson may look amazing to many other people, but to me, she is nothing special.

Date who you want, but to suggest that different ethnicities have different levels of beauty is very offensive. And I am, like you, caucasian.

Bob

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This diversity issue with Narnia, especially the movies, has boggled my mind for quite a bit. These two movies have been more diverse than most other current fantasy films. Look at Lord of the Rings, the only black people you saw there were the bad guys on the mumakil. I am not a Harry Potter fan, but from what little I have seen, there doesn't seem to be much diversity.
The Narnia movies, on the other hand, have shown much more diversity. As others have pointed out, the centaurs were black. The Telmarines were spanish (or is black the only race that counts as "diverse"?). Later we will have the Calormens, which to me always sounded more middle eastern, but could conceivably be cast as black. Although I think that black Calormens would make the contrast between their appearance and the appearance of Shasta too sharp. In the book he doesn't really notice that his appearance is that different from his "father". They also have heroes that are other-than-white. Caspian, of course, is one. Dr. Cornelius is half Telmarine. Later we'll have Aravis and then Emeth.
The Chronicles of Narnia was written by a middle aged white guy in the 40s-50s. Of course his main characters will be white. People write what they know. I would fully expect books written by someone of another race to write in terms of their race. It just makes sense.

I mean, really, what is the big deal?

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" I am not a Harry Potter fan, but from what little I have seen, there doesn't seem to be much diversity."

HP has some diversity. Not necessarily in the main characters, but in the secondary cast, there is a good amount. Cho Chang was of Asian descent amd sje was Harry's first kiss.

Bob

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Ok. As I said, I'm not an HP fan, so what I know is based mainly from commercials and trailers. Still, I think my point stands.

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Again, to the original poster. Do you demand this of other countries' films? I chose kung fu movies as examples as something like Kung Fu Hustle or House of Flying Daggers is more like our own fantasy films (superheroes, wizards or Jedi, take your pick) as opposed to historical fiction such as The Battle of Wits. Do you also expect an North American neighborhood coming from Hong Kong or Bollywood?

A film limited in geography will necessarily be limited in ethnic diversity.

As others have said, there already is diversity within Narnia. (I don't know how you don't count the centaurs, regardless of their fantastical nature, they are played by humans. Just like Mr Tumnus, or does he not count either?)

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..........WHAT THE *beep*
Why do you feel guilty for a lack of diversity?
That makes no sense.
At least not to me. That's like saying there should be a white hero in Coffy...

Gay people...robots in disguise!

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*sigh* Still no answer. I'm going to guess the OP were looking for a reaction and not a answer.

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no, you're absolutely right

it's ridiculous for anybody to complain about diversity in a film unless within context... say, a film centers on native americans played by all white actors. it isn't even about geographical relevance, either... it would be like getting worked up that there weren't enough white folks in "soul food?" even if a film is set in the US (in a particularly diverse city, too), it still doesn't matter.

most importantly is that it has no bearing whatsoever on the film, itself, which was a trainwreck of an adaptation. nevermind the fact that prince caspian, arguably the best book of the series, was mangled beyond recognition...

fortunately, they still have dawn treader to not screw up.

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Okay i get what your saying because some movies dont have diversity cause of geography but i was just drawing a conclusion or a thought here.

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likekiki17; Nobody seems to care, but you.

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Yea well not everybody shares my opinion because I am one person!

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