Would Chigurh have let Lewellyn live?
Would Chigurh have let Lewellyn live if he would have given him back the money in the beginning or was he just going to kill him anyway?
shareWould Chigurh have let Lewellyn live if he would have given him back the money in the beginning or was he just going to kill him anyway?
shareThis is answered in the movie. He would've killed him.
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Well that erases all doubt! Chigurh was just crazy as hell. I bet he had no life outside of killing!
shareWas it answered? The op asks if he would have killed him at the first if he returned the money. I know towards the end he said he was going to kill him after he made him chase him half the movie.
shareI thought The Rude was saying that he would have killed him either way. At least that's how I interpreted their answer.
shareTommy Lee Jones tells Josh Brolin that even if he returns the money, Javier Bardem will kill him anyway on principal because he has inconvenienced him.
shareYou mean Carson Wells?
shareI can't remember what Tommy Lee Jones' character was called.
shareIt's Woody Harrelson's character who says that. And Chigurh himself says it not long after in phone when he offers to save his wife if he gives him the money.
shareYou guys, Chigur says it in no uncertain terms in his own words. "I won't promise you can save yourself because you can't" He was telling him that no matter what, Moss was a dead man, but if he cooperated, Chigur was would spare his wife. Yes, it is said in the movie. When Chigur is speaking to Moss right after Chigur shoots Wells in the hotel.
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Not only that, Chigurh tells him that directly in the phone call he received in Wells' room after Wells was murdered.
shareMaybe if Chigurh had bumped into Moss as soon as he was hired to find the money, he would have spared him. He let the trailer park owner live after refusing his requests for information. He lets the motel owner live after letting him see his face and asking for a map of the rooms. He lets the Accountant live after seeing him commit a murder.
If he'd asked Moss for the money as soon as he set out to find it, and Moss handed it right over, than perhaps Chigurh would've spared him. If you cooperate with Chigurh or not impede his progress at least too much, then Chigurh won't kill you.
Wells points out that "He'd still kill you just for inconveniencing him." Inconveniencing is the key word. By the time Moss meets Wells, Moss has already outsmarted and fled from Chigurh at twice, even going so far as to wound Chigurh with a shotgun which forced Chigurh to (painfully) repair himself.
Moss had gone too far to simply hand over the money. In the beginning if he'd simply handed it over then Chigurh might not have killed him, but as soon as he decided to run and actively fight Chigurh then Chigurh was going to kill Moss no matter what. Chigurh even killed Moss' wife because he gave Moss his word that unless Moss came forward he would kill her, and Moss didn't.
Moss inconvenienced him by running, so Chigurh was going to have to kill him. But Moss also physically wounded Chigurh, so Chigurh was also going to have to kill him for that too. Perhaps that was also a factor in killing Moss' wife, Chigurh finally getting revenge on the man who wounded him even though the Mexicans got to Moss first.
Can't be too careful with all those weirdos running around.
In my interpretation, he clearly didn't let the accountant live.
share"That depends, do you see me?" ... it means, "if the police come, you didn't see me."
I assume you think he means, "do you see me" in the sense of "Yes, I'm going to kill you because you saw me." But he says, "that depends"; so the answer depends on what the accountant says, not on the factuality of whether or not the account sees Anton
I think the accountant lives
It's very possible Moss would get a coin toss.
If Fate has ordained that Moss shall certainly die at the hand of Chigurh, then Fate is playing pretty serious games with Chigurh in letting his prime tool be grievously wounded and letting Moss escape. That could plant doubt in Chigurh's mind as to what Fate has in store for Moss.
Chigurh tells Moss, "I'm won't tell you, "you can save yourself," because you can't." That's a very different statement from, "no matter what you do, I'm going to kill you. The difference is that if you bring me the money, I kill only you. If you don't bring me the money, I kill you AND your wife." Yes, we read that implication into the exchange, but it's not actually said. Chigurh is carefully and deliberately ambiguous.
Throughout the film Chigurh sees himself as the tool of Fate, meting out whatever result Fate implants to his mind. In this sense, Chigurh is indeed crazy as Wells accuses him of being. The rest of his actions are ordered carefully around his delusion as Fate's hand. In that sense, he's not insane; rather, he's acting reasonably within that structure.
There is absolutely no doubt that Chigurh will ultimately consult Fate as to what is to be done with Moss. We can certainly imagine Fate (Chigurh's unhinged mind) responding, "he must die: be done with him." But there is also the possibility that had Moss done as Chigurh/Fate directed and brought him the money, that the coin would have been consulted, just as it was for Moss's wife and for the storekeeper he spared. Heads or tails, Fate orders Chigurh to spare or to kill. There's not anything Moss himself can do to either save or doom himself. The only thing that matters is Fate dictating to Chigurh and Chigurh acting accordingly. He does have, after all, those principles to uphold.
Chigurh couldn't have been plainer on the phone that he would kill Moss. He evinced no doubt, hesitation or qualification, despite having at that time all the facts related to "fate," including inconvenient ones, available for his consideration. Yet evidently none of these available facts swayed him to consider granting Moss the possibility of living. Chigurh's use of the coin toss was idiosynratic and arbitrary. Invoking it was a matter of personal whim, and in this case his whim was to kill the man who'd shot him.
shareExcellent post by hobbar. Don't worry about larks. He is always on the surface he can never go deep.
To brush larks aside on the phone sugar said he would kill cj yet gave her the chance to call the toss.
This is the essence of Chigurh: he is absolutely NOT whimsical, headstrong, foolish, or vengeful in how he operates. He is simply carrying out the orders Fate gives to him. WE find it whimsy... HE, in his delusional state (crazy, as Wells asserts), considers it anything BUT whimsy.
The whole point of my post is that Chigurh very much could have been plain about killing Moss if that indeed was his intention. But he doesn't tell Moss, "I'm going to kill you." He says if you bring me the money, you (by Moss's own actions) can save your wife. It's clear that if Moss doesn't bring him the money, Carla Jean is a dead woman, because Chigurh has promised Moss that is to be her fate. Moss himself... that hasn't been clearly determined yet.
Chigurh may indeed kill Moss. If the coin, directed by Fate, tells Chigurh to do so.
I don't think Chigurh's statement "I won't tell you you can save yourself because you can't" admits the ambiguity you believe it does. If there's not anything Moss himself can do to save himself, logically that includes the certainty that he can't choose a side of the coin that would spare him, thus he simply won't be allowed a choice at all. Chigurh makes no such claim in the cases of the GSO and CJ. In fact, he informs Moss that the phone offer is the best deal he’s going to get. That is, a coin toss deal plainly isn’t in his future.
shareLarks has shown time and again he simply doesn't understand sugar's code and the coin flip. Cj says to sugar that he doesn't have to do this. Sugar replies that he can't second say the world. That would leave him vulnerable. Yet he gives her the coin flip. That tells us the coin flip is king. If she won the coin flip and he executes her he is second saying the world.
The same reasoning applies to Moss. If he doesn't give Moss the coin toss sugar doesn't know if he is second saying the world which is crucial to him.
Chigurh doesn't give other victims a coin toss, although he has time for it. He decides to execute them and directly proceeds with the decision. Thus Dmaria's assumption is mistaken: the coin flip is evidently not king at all, but a gesture only indulged when the character feels like it, in particular circumstances.
Although it is the movie that is being discussed, Dmaria confuses the book (which he hasn't read but only heard about) for the movie. Here he imputes words to Chigurh that he doesn't say in the movie. One must be careful with adaptations; omissions change emphases and meanings.
Larks has come down on the wrong side of every character and issue. You would think he would be right just once.
Larks can't make distinctions. He has no grasp of the concept of collateral damage. Larks can't tell the difference between the situation of the GSO as opposed to the chicken farmer and why one gets the toss and the other one doesn't.
One makes a point of noting the toss is applied in "particular circumstances," and Dmaria jerks out his knee with a complaint that particular circumstances weren't considered. That knee is going to wear out due to repetitive strain injury.
shareParticular circumstances are considered by sugar. Larks doesn't understand how that weakens his argument.
shareDmaria complained that the context of "particular circumstances" weren't considered, when they clearly were. He also imputed words to Chigurh that the character doesn't say in the movie. He doesn't admit being wrong about both these things.
shareChigurh may indeed kill Moss. If the coin, directed by Fate, tells Chigurh to do so.
"Arbitrary" and "personal whim" are redundant; typical of larks attempting to convey superior intellectual prowess through excessive wordiness.
shareThat's idiotic. Under no circumstances would Chigurh have allowed Moss to live. The coin toss was reserved solely for (and not always granted to!!!) those who Chigurh encountered through no fault of their own. Moss hardly falls into this category. Moss was dead as fried chicken if Chigurh encountered him.
shareHe let the trailer park owner live after refusing his requests for information.But he heard the toilet flush and the sound of a door opens. Chigurh left immediately after, giving the Desert Aire Manager one last ominous look before leaving. I'm guessing a co-worker in the bathroom. So it's possible it was strictly a full bladder that really saved the Desert Aire Manager.
It's true sugar heard the toilet flush. So are you saying the prospect of facing 2 people is what scares off this big bad man?
shareI'm not sure how to read his reaction on that. The ominous look he gave just before leaving seemed to imply, "lady, you don't know how lucky you are." But I may be reading his expression at that moment incorrectly.
Chigurh discovering someone else is there I find unlikely intimidated him, but it seemed to imply it changed his agenda at the moment in some way.
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Inger, you must rot, because the times are rotten.
In the contest between badass and battle axe, the issue is not certain. Chigurh wisely heeds the Charlie Walser lesson, and retreats.
shareThat was so nice of Ed Tom to tell Chigurh about the Charlie Walser story.
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Inger, you must rot, because the times are rotten.
The wisdom of the Walser story transcends money or drugs or anything like that.
shareActually my last post was a little poke at dmariat's fan fiction Chigurh and Bell are buddies.
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Inger, you must rot, because the times are rotten.
Zone reminds me of the gas pump scene in Deliverance where the guy says you don't know nothing.
I've known quite a few criminals and quite a few police officers. While bell is legit sugar is a total fiction criminal. So yeah bell and sugar could be buddies.
Fair play, I was expecting a return poke.
You didn't disappoint.
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Inger, you must rot, because the times are rotten.
No, and he makes this abundantly clear in the phone call.
shareThe latter.
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