I Don’t Understand. SPOILERS!! - Westworld (2016) Discussion

[–] chrisjdel (2714) 7 years ago

The usual sort of stuff. Create a total system failure to collapse law and order, manipulate governments to spark a war, develop a bioweapon, replace all the leaders with hosts and then set up a doomsday scenario any of a thousand different ways. Avoid anything that makes an EMP though. EMP bad!

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[–] papamihel (1616) 7 years ago

It seems like they finally added someone with a bit of expertise to the writers team in the S2 finale.
The main difference between AIs and animal brains is their ability to copy themselves. In addition to a virtual Dolores there are already 2 hard copies. I doubt the Delos is the only entity to have a computer system complex enough to run a host simulation (I'm still not convinced they are actual AIs). I'd say a Skynet scenario is a possibility. Or just flooding the Internet (or whatever they have in the future) with copies of hosts and... Well, that would be it for humanity one way or another.

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[–] Gastonian (946) 7 years ago

I don't know how you managed to spin that yarn. There's only one Dolores at this point. There is no virtual one. Her backup was destroyed in the cradle and she didn't go to the Matrix afterlife with everyone else. She had at least five other host control units with her (if not more) when she left the park. One of them was Bernard. She manufactured a new body for him and a replica of her old body. Its clearly implied that she switched out her control unit and put herself into the replica body. Whoever occupies the Charlotte host body now is up for debate but its one of those other control units.

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[–] chrisjdel (2714) 7 years ago

Apparently you missed his comment about being able to copy a digitally stored mind. Those control units are like hard drives onto which you can download a consciousness. If you've got five you could load five different minds into them or five copies of the same one. Or any combination you choose.

There are at least two versions of Dolores - three if you count the additional backup that was already in the Forge, which Dolores saw walk by in the Westworld recreation, although that one may have been lost. Right now we've got one in the Charlotte host body and another one with Bernard ... wherever it is they are. They have a shared history right up until Bernard shoots the original. Once the copies have a separate existence of course, they follow separate paths.

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[–] Gastonian (946) 7 years ago

I didn't miss anything. And that's quite the leap that you took from that comment. With regard to the Dolores walking by in the Forge, that wasn't a backup of her. The host backups were kept in the cradle. Which was destroyed. The guest backups were kept in the Forge. What walked by was essentially just a memory Delos had of her. Bernard even said they couldn't interact with the hosts in that construct. As for the copies of Delores theory of yours, don't take my word for it. Take it from the creator himself:

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Do you know who each of those balls represent in Dolores’ purse? Or is your cast on edge about which characters Dolores found worthy of survival?
JONATHAN NOLAN: We’ve had some interesting conversations. It’s a large ensemble cast and sadly we’re saying goodbye to some people at the end of this season. But as always with this show, who remains and who doesn’t is something we’re having a lot of fun with. There’s going to be a bit of a wait for a third season but we want to surprise and hopefully delight people with the way things progress.

When we see Dolores walking with Charlotte out of the room at the end on the mainland, does that mean there are now two Doloreses played by different actors?
Ehhh, not really. The question of who’s who and what we’re looking at is something we’re excited to play with. We’re excited to withhold a little from the audience but … it’s complicated.

http://ew.com/tv/2018/06/24/westworld-season-2-finale-interview/

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[–] winslow (1318) 7 years ago

Delores believes she's hacked human nature. But she is basing this on a small sample size because only the elites went to the park.

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[–] chrisjdel (2714) 7 years ago

Not just the rich elites. The worst of them, the biggest sociopaths, those are the ones they got a lot of business from. I'm guessing Charlotte Dolores will start to see that when she goes outside the park. She may develop a more balanced view of humans and end up at odds with her other self.

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[–] Jeepster (1168) 7 years ago

EXACTLY!! Well put Chris. That’s my take on it on as well because after all as mad & hateful the hosts are after their treatment of being created & abused & treated as slaves by Delos, which helped shaped their view of all humanity which is understandable but it does present a huge pitfall. The problem with that is Delos comprises a select group of people & is not representative of all human kind by any means.

Dolores has got a lot to learn, provided that she’s not unreachable which I don’t believe she is yet.
It’s worth noting that before she left the park she met Stubbs who’s one of the best of us & saw how he was. & how he thought & felt. I’m of the opinion that Stubbs knew she was a host & let her go, & that she knew he knew. IF true, that’s got to inspire some sort of hope in her (hopefully).

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[–] chrisjdel (2714) 7 years ago

It's also possible Stubbs is a host too. I don't know if that's the case, but he did reveal that he had a close personal relationship with Ford and was secretly tasked by him with the job of protecting the hosts on the island. Whether human or not he's more than Delos realizes - and his primary loyalty is not to the company.

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[–] Jeepster (1168) 7 years ago

Personally I don't believe Stubbs is a host, although to some of you the evidence looks convincing that he is or might be. Who knows I could be wrong & maybe he is or maybe he's human or maybe like Bernard he's a host who doesn't know he is one & believes himself to be human.

But I just think Ashley Stubbs is a stand up guy & it's as simple as that. He's the only one who thought it was unconscionable what was going on with the hosts, the park, etc. Thing is I don't have to be an dog, cat, etc, to be passionate about animal rights, do I? So likewise, his concern or "decency" towards the hosts doesn't make him likely one, but that's just my opinion. what do I know?

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[–] chrisjdel (2714) 7 years ago

I think it was mostly his comment about protecting the hosts being what you might call his core function, or something like that (I don't remember the exact words). He isn't necessarily one himself though. He may just have said that as a hint to Dolores-Charlotte that he knew her secret.

Ford may have hired him based on his strong loyalty and moral character. Clearly he considered the man, whatever his nature, to be trustworthy. We still don't know what Ford's true objectives are. What he says isn't necessarily what he believes. He's perfectly capable of being like the Oracle in the Matrix movies, telling people exactly what they need to hear to get them on the right track.

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[–] ExTechOp (2770) 7 years ago

Yes! This is exactly why I hope Nolan will reconsider.

Apparently, he came up with the Stubbs-is-a-host plot point the night before they filmed it.

To me, that suggests they can still “take it back.”

I much prefer the notion that Dolores and Bernard be exposed to better examples of humanity, like Elsie and Stubbs, to leave the door open for hope.

Maybe Dolores really will see “beauty in this world” someday.

I do note, for example, that Dolores didn’t seem especially busted up over Emily’s death, so maybe William’s daughter wasn’t such a saint either.

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[–] filmtenk (765) 7 years ago

I’m so confused. Stubbs is a host? Thought he was a human giving Dolores a pass because he’s pissed off at the world.

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[–] ExTechOp (2770) 7 years ago

I thought the same thing - or at least he’s just pissed at Delos

But Nolan revealed that he wrote that scene at that last minute and explicitly told Hemsworth he’s now playing a host.

Like I said, I hope he reconsiders. The scene works better with Stubbs as a sympathetic human, among the lines of Elsie and Sylvester (and Lee and maybe Felix)

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[–] TexasJack (12516) 7 years ago

I definitely think Stubbs knew she was a host.

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[–] chrisjdel (2714) 7 years ago

Absolutely.

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[–] TapDancingTeddy (228) 7 years ago

Yes, Stubbs very much appeared to know. I don't think that makes him a host, though.

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[–] chrisjdel (2714) 7 years ago

It doesn't necessarily make him a host. He could be an employee plant like Bernard, or he could just as easily be human. Only time will tell.

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[–] Jeepster (1168) 7 years ago

They’re NOT “elite” by any stretch of the imagination Winslow but I do get your point. They’re just among the wealthiest & privileged of the population but not superior over anyone else by any means.

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[–] Geff (453) 7 years ago

You don't know the socio-economic climate of the future. If all labor is done by robots, imagine robots that do not attempt to mimic humans and are therefore not 'hosts', then there is no labor performing human underclass, everyone is equally elite or unelite.

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