MovieChat Forums > Notorious (2009) Discussion > In the end ....why should we care about ...

In the end ....why should we care about biggie?

posted 15 years ago by Karneda92
76 replies | jump to latest

I Mean as far as the film goes and from what i've heard in documentries the guy was a d!ck, he was manipulative, sexist, egotistical jerk, i mean you just have to listen to his debut Ready To Die(a highly overrated album BTW) and you will know what i mean, towards the end of the movie, the film show's him redeem himself before his death i mean wtf that was poorly handled its like the film makers were like..

"yeah for 2 hours we'll show him treating all the woman in his life like garbage and in the last 10 minutes out of the blue he'll apologise, and a few minutes later he'll die in a drive buy, and hopefully the audience will feel remorse..."

I mean wtf?

[–] Joe_Francis 15 years ago

wow, you totally summed up my thoughts on the movie after watching it today, haha!

http://2010movielist.blogspot.com/2010/02/notorious.html

http://2010movielist.blogspot.com/
One new movie per day all year.

[–] cdz6969 15 years ago

When he saw Pryor said he will never call anyone the N word again, it changed his whole perspective.. then he told his daughter don't ever let another man call you a bitch..

This is for Allah... and it's going way out there sucka...

[–] jnyfknblz 15 years ago

biggie like many other performers out there ( cough hack 15 cent) sold crack and helped destroy many peoples lives. I am not talking about destroying just drug addicts but more importantly destroying mother/ father / brother / sister relationships that will forever be gone because they felt the need to sling. Don't buy the lame excuse that drugs were the only way to support their families bs.... get a job at McDonalds, go to school, get educated, hone talent, pave your way upward like everyone else in the world. If you have ever had an addict as a family member you greatly loved and cared about understand that people like biggie are and forever will be garbage.

rest in hell b.i.g.

[–] FaithNoBungle 15 years ago

Hahaha, ouch. I didn't care for the flick either.

[–] sktborder826 15 years ago

he was educated, he went to a magnet high school but selling crack is fast cash, that is why he sold. 50 cent is just stupid and couldnt think of doing anything else besides pushing pills and rock.

cellar door

[–] Karneda92 12 years ago

But that's a sad fact, and makes all the more harder to have sympathy for this person, if he was educated he could have made something of himself finish high school then college , then a get a decent job, he would have climbed his way out of poverty and crime through education if he's had chosen that path he would have still been alive and his daughter would have had a father

, but instead he say's screw that im gonna sell crack destroy hundreds of lives and make a living of that, go to jail become a rapper(wich led to his untimely death) the reason why i opened this thread is because, you see millions of blacks world wide idolise this guy and call him a hero. But what did he ever do for the black community ? besides destroy it by selling drugs and make morally poor gangster rap songs ? what did he do for america or even the world ? nothing ,nada.

Why should we care about a complete jerk who done nothing for anyone but himself , he never done anything for blacks yet he's worshipped, he's not even an interesting person just another shallow, close minded, gangsta thug rapper, he didnt deserve a movie

"The stuff that dreams are made of."

[–] activista 11 years ago

@Karneda92

There's many white characters (and people in real life) that have done lots of messed-up s*** (like Charlie Sheen, who was bigged up though he was a real piece of s*** himself) and Biggie's only popular with rap fans. We don't know what he would have besides that because he didn't live long enough to show that he could do anything different--which is the sad part. I read one of his last interviews in a book collection of VIBE columns where he talked about his future and wanting to do other things. Biggie only made a couple of songs I actually liked---"I got a Crush On You" w/ 'Lil Kim, "Warning" and that last hit he had---don't know the name. But,yeah, he just turned me off as a person (mainly because the first song I ever heard form hi was a tune called "My B****", which I thought was disgusting as hell, and the fact that he treated both of the main women in his life like s***. I couldn't believe either one of them wasted their time fighting over him, because, frankly,he didn't even seem worth it---he didn't respect either one of them,in my view.

However, he probably would have matured and moved on to other things by now, since gangster rap kid of faded after the '90's a little bit.

[–] Sunrain456 15 years ago

Hello,
I don't agree with drug dealers at all but seriously, if he hadn't sold it to them, someone else would have. People need to stop always blaming the dealers and looks at who is buying. The addicts mess their own lives up. They mess up their relationships with the people who care about them, and this is coming from a former substance abuse counselor. Everyday is a choice. Unless a crack pipe was forced in your mouth as a child you had a choice to start.

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[–] scrapmetal7 14 years ago

movie was crap. glorified a guy who didnt know how to live right. turned him into a saint at the end. Guy just happened to see the light right before he got shot, yeah sure. Easy to say, just like fairy tales. He slung drugs, and then he made more money slinging offensive, brain dead music. It's all crap in the end. That's what he gave the world, all the ugly crap he had inside.

[–] tiffanykk2002 14 years ago

Man I thought the same thing. He was pretty despicable, then to try to tie it up in a pretty bow at the end. Like when he sees the woman he sold crack to while she was pregnant and suddenly she was doing well so we were supposed to forgive him? BOOO!

[–] Crazything2 14 years ago

the whole movie talks about him becoming a man. if you remember he was only a teenager selling drugs on the street he wasnt some 40 year old drug dealer. everybody does stupid things as a teenager and its part of life to choosing your who your gonna be as you get to that age and " become a man." so yes selling drugs is wrong, Dont do it!, but when he wanted to do his second album remember he said he didnt even feel like the same person anymore becuase he had changed so far beyond that so the movie shows yes he was messed up as a young teenager but he grew up, had some kids, and realized his wrongs. His mom said at the end, "i take solice in knowing that he became a man." the film doean't portrait him into a saint from his teenager days cause the whole theme of the movie is this messed up guy ..."becoming a man."

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[–] sirrap2 14 years ago

This entire thread is hilarious!

Films like Scarface, Goodfellas, The Godfather are glorified and Oscar-winners though they were films about murderous criminals who, yes, also sold drugs but they aren't frowned upon, oh let me guess why....they aren't black so they get a pass.

So what, Biggie sold drugs, he isn't the first to jump start his career by the drug trade. What about the Kennedy's during prohibition? They are known as 'Great Americans' Sickening. Maybe it'll be good if people would take a history lesson before going on a forum and making a fool of themselves.

This was a good movie. If people are mature enough to understand the 'story' behind it and bypass the drug dealing, they'll see what this movie is worth.

But explaining this to trolls....*shakes head* I'll have better luck explaining the workings of the internet to an ant.

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[–] sirrap2 14 years ago

As long ass racism exist, I'll play the card as much as I want. Don't like it, then don't reply to my post. Instead of being rude, be an adult and MOVE ON!

I have a right to voice my opinion the same as every one else.

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[–] p_imdb-156 13 years ago

I don't think selling drugs is ever a "good thing" to do, but before you walk in a man's shoes how can you judge his actions? How can you know the struggles and challenges facing people who grow up in the projects if you've never gone through it?

It's so easy to judge and look down on people...but I will say this: if we hadn't failed so many people living in those areas, there wouldn't be so much drugs and killings going on there.

[–] shani_dayo 9 years ago

Don't make pathetic excuses for a Man just because you like His music, selling drugs is wrong, period. It has nothing to do with growing up in poverty or living in the projects, plenty of people have worked hard, gotten an education, and have gotten out of the projects without resorting to doing a destructive line of business. A person always has options, from what I understand Biggie could have further educated Himself and been anything in the world, but He choose to do it. Nobody is looking down on Him, some just refuse to idolize a Man who did no good for the community and treated other people like pawns (especially women).

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[–] guillermoportuondo 8 years ago

If someone's addicted to drugs it's their own damn fault not the dealers. So hope your junkie loved one has fun in hell too

[–] scrapmetal7 14 years ago

Sums him up completely. Try to say the right thing immediately after and before doing the wrong thing.

[–] Uhh 14 years ago

This would be a good post if we were talking about Richard Pryor.

[–] Mamakittie 15 years ago

Upon first watching this movie I didn't think I'd like it. But after watching it I found myself loving it. For the sole reason Biggie & Lil Kim's relationship reminds me of my best friend and I, so in a way I could relate to the love and turmoil they went through as close friends.

I don't think the movie was made to redeem Biggie in any way. I feel it was a short, theatrical view of his life, from living in the streets to making it big in the music industry. I feel if this was how he really was in reality I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing or him as a bad guy. He had a lot against him growing up and he had to become his own man only being influenced by his mother who had to be the mother and the father. As far as how he treated the women in his life I think it's typical man *beep* to be honest. Every guy is gonna treat some girl like *beep* every girl is gonna treat some guy like *beep* it's a vicious circle and no one's perfect. Not trying to say he was right to do all he did, but I mean what would you do if you were him? He had good times but in the end it just wasn't meant to be.

R.I.P Adam Goldstein AKA DJ AM..... Heaven will finally have it's house DJ. Rock that *beep*

[–] vince200002000 15 years ago

I agree.

"Sometimes it's right to do the wrong thing, and right now is one of those times."

[–] MyDarkStar 14 years ago

ha ! I was thinking the same thing !

They totally try to patch up all of his terrible behavior in about 2 phone calls just before he died. And you can tell that both of them were completely unrealistic. Like the guy is going to call his mother right out of the blue to tell his mother he's proud of her (coincidentally a day before he dies). And then he calls that girl to tell her he didn't want any more drama. HAHA ! I'm sure he was thinking about her while he was out in L.A. rubbing his fat body up against any piece of a$$ possible.

I don't care how much people wanna say the movie was inaccurate. It's obvious that the guy didn't care about anybody but himself.

oh, and I like how they try to make him seem like a good father by telling his daughter to never allow a guy to call her a bitch. Gee dad, that's some deep advice there.

and then they even tried to put in the idea that he cared about his daughter by telling her mother that he would like his daughter to come out to L.A. and visit, as if that makes up for being a totally neglective jerk for the previous years of her life.

[–] jakobe240 14 years ago

When discussing what kind of person biggie was its important to keep in mind he was only 24 when he died. So yes he was immature and a bit of an *beep* he still should have had a lot more time for growing up before his life was cut short.

[–] laxpv30 14 years ago

ya him calling his mom really happened go watch the documentary.

[–] rabbyt1 14 years ago

It was a movie about his life- you weren't supposed to care about him in the end. You just got to hear his story. Whether you cared more or less or whatever in the end wasn't the intent of the movie.

I do think the movie showed that he went from a kid who was self-absorbed and all about himself to a man who cared and before he could show the world he changed he was killed. Like Puffy said to Biggie- we can't change the world till we change ourselves, he changed himself but it was too late. And he was in his early 20s when he died- of course he was immature! We've all done immature and jerky things- but we grow out of it (hopefully).

It wasn't epic but it was a pretty good movie.

[–] Karneda92 14 years ago

"It was a movie about his life- you weren't supposed to care about him in the end. .."

i disagree with you there , the films direction trys to make you feel remorse for Biggie.

"And he was in his early 20's when he died- of course he was immature"

again i keep seeing people bring his age up, the point is, this is a 24 year old man with a daughter he should have grown up the day she was born, im 18 years old but im way more mature than he ever was, the guy was a self centered and like earlier posts have said he didnt care about anyone besides himself.

now the point im trying to make is that we can all agree ..even Biggie fans that this guy was a jerk, he just wasnt a good person, now why should we care about a truly unlikable person ? why should we see a film on the life of a bad person unlesss its a character study ? in other words why should we care about Biggie ?

[–] tawil-1 14 years ago

I agree completely, he got my blood boiling. He made stupid decision after stupid decision in nearly all areas of his life. But, hey! you gotta give credit to the filmmakers for not overlooking his flaws, that's not to be underestimated especially in those kind of films that usually do their best to defend their protaginist's sainthood.

[–] aszzzbrokerman 14 years ago

I went away to school in 1997. Guys from L.A really didn't talk to guys from New York and vice-versa. Until, after about 2 weeks we all realized how silly that was. But, thats how powerful the music was. Name any current artist that could cause a war between two people let alone two regions. Musicians of all creeds were dropping like flies in the 90s(cobain,nowell etc). Times were different.

If you are 18 you can't possibly understand this movie yet. Come back and watch it when you are 30. I promise you will feel differently. You still may hate the guy, but you will be watching from a different perspective.

[–] Narcost23 14 years ago

Like some others have mentioned here, people fail to understand how big of an influence Big and Pac were to having the state's hiphop subculture devided between east and west.

why is everyone focusing on the only part of the movie that didn't matter? Oh he sold drugs so automatically he's a bad person? Like they say in the hiphop scene, "don't hate the player hate the game". He didn't put a gun to anyone's head and asked them to buy his drugs, he took a shortcut like many other people did. You can't say "go get a job a mcdonalds" and work your way through, because honestly you're not completely putting yourself in their shoes.

So what's the difference between him and Frank lucas? Or Tony Montana? Is Scarface a bad movie because he sold coke? Was he really a bad guy? or just caught up in the game? How many of us did really stupid things when we were young?

The hustling part of this movie is just a very small part on what this movie is really all about. The movie was more about the influence that Biggie had on hiphop culture in general and how if you live by the gun you die by the gun. A story of his life and how he still is one of the greatest. Ready to die is still in the top 10 hiphop classic albums of all time. It's a story about real hiphop and not the water down MTV, "Soldier boy" crap you hear now a days.

In conclusion the movie is a story of his life and it's not meant for anyone to feel bad for him. But for some of us it was a nice treat to see his story come to life. We're all humans, we all make mistakes, "We can't change the world unless we change ourselves".

Gave the movie a 5/10 for my own personal reasons.

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[–] Karneda92 14 years ago

LMFAO Biggie Immortal ? lol maybe as far as hip hop goes then yeah maybe , but in general music ? seriously pull your head out of your A$$, saying biggie is immortal is standing him against the likes of Elvis Presley, Bob Marley, John Lennon, Michael Jackson, James Brown, those guys were immortal Biggie doesn't hold a candle to them, and even in hip hop although he was a great rapper , imo he doesn't hold a candle against Kool G Rap, Rakim, Krs, Nas, Ghostface Killer, Raekwon, Common and even Tupac. Great rapper not an amazing one. You sound just like the film, Biggie as far as hip hop goes was a legend but as far as music in general he falls short of that status. Thats generally how hip hop is perceived so sorry to break it to you . BTW i actually like Biggie as a rapper, but i hate him as a person.

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[–] Karneda92 14 years ago

Im gonna be honest with you, i have no idea what the hell you just said, but from what i understand it seems to me that as a rapper biggie means allot to you , and thats fine if he does, the problem i have with you is this little comment " Comparing him to regular people who live and die anonymously...why? Turn the question around- why should anyone care about you? There probably isn't a realistic answer. You are not famous. Biggie was. Period."1st of , you misunderstood my 1st comment, i didn't compare him to any regular person , and even if i did, soo Biggie's death is alott more important than the average Joe because he was famous? WOW, then by your logic no-one should care about the films Boyz n tha Hood , Schindler's List , Saving Private Ryan, because no-one important is being killed just bunch of average nobody's. Thats how i know your a Biggie die hard " but if you are still concerned with emcee comparisons,.. "Wrong again i was simply illustrating hoqw overrateBiggie is as a rapper imo, Fans like you make him out to be a saint , this is something that virtually every negative review of this film has brought up, th reality is he's far from it he was actually a pretty nasty guy, that was the point of this thread. Why should we care about a jerk? that was my question.And even still this film wasn't even that great its a mediocre biopic, so i have no idea why people like you are so touchy over the subject.

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[–] Bigsax 9 years ago

I'm assuming you were born in 1992? Morons born after 1990 shouldn't be allowed to voice their opinions on anything. Biggie is the greatest rapper of all time by a mile.

Millennial = Homo Sapiens born 1990 or after; Losers who think they know everything but don't

[–] simba122504 14 years ago

Tony was a bad guy, he wasn't even an anti hero. But Al's other memorable character Michael Corleone was an anti hero.

I'm glad Obama won, but I will not jump on the Pro-Choice bandwagon

[–] Karneda92 14 years ago

@Narcost23
umm do you think im hating on biggie because he sold drugs ? hell no , every rapper sold crack at one point, in fact screw that everyone in the late 80's and mid 90's sold crack at one point, drug dealing isn't anything new to hip hop, i dislike biggie because of his attitude his ego and the way he treated people, specifically women, listening to his music the guy was exteremley egotistical, sexist and self centered, for the mot part he didn't care about anyone but himself, everything that he's done has been about him, compare that to Tupac and everything he's done has been about the world. Please i not the biggest of his fans i've listened to all his albums, but could you please name one song he's done,where he has expressed concerns over other people. in the same way that Brendas Got a Baby, Dear Mamma, and Keep Your Head Up my Pac has.

ps. I thought Scarface sucked

[–] Narcost23 14 years ago

Brenda got a baby, Dear mama, and Keep your head up... MTV MUCH?

Seriously, have you ever actually listened to any of Pac's albums from start to finish? You just went full on mainstream. You are aware that Tupac had a HUGE female fan base as opposed to Biggie; and that all of those songs you've mentioned were directly targeted at his female fanbase, right? As opposed to most of his other songs on the rest of his albums that are directed to gangsterism, beef, and thug-life... then the occasional political, revolutionary track.

The difference between Pac and Big is huge, they have completely different styles, completely different flow, and completely different songs. Pac played the revolutionary role in most of his singles, Pac was more of a poet than a rapper. As opposed to Biggie who always played the typical above average east coast MC. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Regardless, my post was never about hiphop, it was about the movie and people judging the movie because of the characters portrayed instead of for the movie itself.

[–] Karneda92 14 years ago

i have listened to all his albums i picked those single because there his most notable songs also because they relate to my topic i am aware that Tupac was a gangster rapper, but he was also a political rapper an concious rapper as well., however imho Ready to Die and Life after Death were vastly superior to Tupac's albums, im not gonna lie, i never really found Tupac to be that great of a Rapper he was more of a poet Like you said . Biggie had style that everyone wanted to copy even to this day.

"he difference between Pac and Big is huge, they have completely different styles, completely different flow, and completely different songs. Pac played the revolutionary role in most of his singles, Pac was more of a poet than a rapper. As opposed to Biggie who always played the typical above average east coast MC. I wouldn't want it any other way. "

Wow i agree with you 110% i've realised how silly it was of me to compare both Pac and Biggie, because their far to different and it completely opinionated, ive been saying what you've been saying over and over again,

But again you have to admit the film was extremely bias in its potrayls of the west coast, now while i still think East Coast Hip Hop is better, the film didn't portray the west coast in a positive light, also i know its a Bipoic, but it gives way too much credit to Biggie for reviving East Coast Hip hop, when in reality allot of the credit goes to Nas, Wu Tang, ATCQ, Mobb Deep,Gang Starr, and Jeru the Damaja, but the film completely ignores these artist. Its Similar to Saving Private Ryan when the the director completely ignored the British role, in the original story..

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[–] Karneda92 14 years ago

In Comparison to Mobb Deep and Wu tang, biggie had a huge Commercial affect but im not judging him in a mainstream aspect, when you look at his hardcore stuff it did fall short in comparison, except for Who Shot Ya that song is *beep* Hardcore and while Cream and Shook ones are excellent there not my personal favourite songs from those artists Give Up the Goods and Clan in da front were way more superior imo, but back to the topic Biggie had a mainstream appeal but that wasn't really his focus his main focus was his hardcore sh!t i never really liked songs like Big Poppa, Hypnotise and the others you mentioned, in the hip hop world he was judged by his hardcore sh!t and thats why i feel it fell short in comparison to other Hardcore artists Like Nas, Wu Tang, Mobb deep, Gangstarr etc. Basically he may have been the most successful but he wasn't the best and i think its unfair to ignore the efforts by the latter mentioned.

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[–] mv5 13 years ago

"the difference between Pac and Big is huge"

Ya, about 200 pounds

[–] shani_dayo 9 years ago

Um...................you do realize that just because "everyone" does it that doesn't make it okay right?

[–] TDizzle21 14 years ago

"Don't buy the lame excuse that drugs were the only way to support their families bs.... get a job at McDonalds, go to school, get educated, hone talent, pave your way upward like everyone else in the world. If you have ever had an addict as a family member you greatly loved and cared about understand that people like biggie are and forever will be garbage."

God you're naive. Many of the biggest American success stories ever from the Rockefellers to the Kennedys were paved with drugs, blood and reprehensible, illegal conduct. Of course they don't like to tell you that in school.

Work at McDonald's to make your way through life? Are you stoned yourself? You could work there for years and maybe, just maybe, get an extra dollar an hour to be shift supervisor. And you'd still be living in the projects with no one wanting your broke ass. So yes, if faced with only those 2 options (and let's not delude ourselves into the Horatio Alger myth of thinking anyone can become something successful), I'd be hustling too. Save the cpndescending bullcrap, you only believe it because you were probably reared in the sort of privileged, comfy, middle-class environment where you were guaranteed things like college since day one.

OWNED

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] cokoholicar 13 years ago

Yea, this should be like in an OWNED museum!

[–] simba122504 14 years ago

There are only to ways out of the drug game. Murder or Jail. Very few actually make it out, so don't kid yourself either. And blacks rarely, if ever make as much as their white counter parts, and they don't have their power either. Show me a black drug dealer who's a billionaire? And if drugs ever become legal, Drug Dealers of all colors are going to be assed out.

I'm glad Obama won, but I will not jump on the Pro-Choice bandwagon

[–] swedish_filmfish 14 years ago

Jay Z

[–] simba122504 14 years ago

LMFAO

Jay-Z made his millions by rapping, not selling drugs! I don't recall anyone saying he was a millionaire while living in the ghetto. If he was, they should talk about it more!

I'm glad Obama won, but I will not jump on the Pro-Choice bandwagon

[–] guillermoportuondo 8 years ago

Um... Biggie made his millions by rapping and Jay Z made a ton of money from drugs before rap like BIG. So your argument is invalid

[–] shani_dayo 9 years ago

Eazy E sold drugs before He became a rapper and was doing pretty well for Himself (Even though this isn't a good career choice), and He decided to stop in order to become a rapper because He didn't want to risk His life anymore. He got out of the business without murder or jail, so you cant say those are the only ways out, He got out through music. The amount you make has nothing to do with color of your skin, so it is totally irrelevant, this thread is about Biggie in the first place, not the actual business of selling drugs.

[–] simba122504 14 years ago

Oh, Please. The guy wasn't a saint, and never pretended to be. He did not force any of those groupies to sleep with him, and Lil' Kim is still in love with him. Faith will always love him, but she moved on unlike Kim.

I'm glad Obama won, but I will not jump on the Pro-Choice bandwagon

[–] 14 years ago

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