Not Possible... - Tower Heist (2011) Discussion

[–] sinisac 13 years ago

Come on dont be naive , "how this works" , it doesn't.
Director didnt know how to proceed with the whole car thing ,and so what they do,
they cut the heist and later add the pool scene,brilliant!
This totally ruin the movie for me ,because its like director is saying to me:
You are stupid and you wont notice this .

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[–] save_ferrisb 13 years ago

Yeah okay, fair enough, i just didn't want to hate the movie. But i guess i have to now, as it was pretty much just like you said, Ratner disrespecting his audience by thinking they're stupid enough to gloss over that ending. A clever reveal might have made this movie worthwhile. It wouldnt have even taken much effort.

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[–] sinisac 13 years ago

I dont understand why movie makers doesn't realize ,once and for all ,
that the end of the movie is the most important part .
You could even have a crappy movie but if a crappy movie has really good ending ,you`r going to love it much more than you should.
For example , "The Mechanic" with Charles Bronson ,if you`r going to be realistic its bad to mediocre movie ,everything from the stiff acting to the action scenes ,but if you see the end you always gonna remember it and even want to watch it a few times more :)
But these days the directors ,when the movie is at the last quarter stage ,they just
go on autopilot ,"ok guys wrap it up"

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[–] cherry-is-smart 13 years ago

That is so true. I remembered loving "Grease" until the car floated up up and away. What a let down or is it a "finger" at us after they're captured your money:)

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[–] Defenseman13 12 years ago

that is one of the funniest and most irrelevant thing I've ever read

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm2339870/

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[–] cherry-is-smart 12 years ago

I'm glad you were amused. Irrelevant to you maybe but you weren't a child living in their own fantasy world.

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[–] perkeneff 13 years ago

The twist was that the safe had no money, and they thought he had hidden the money somewhere in the penthouse. By logic of some sort, they surmise that it's hidden in Shaw's most prized possession, his car in the penthouse and sure enough, there it is. Screenwriter lost control of his senses with lowering the car outside the window and then the pool. I guess it's goofy, but was a goofy movie that pretended to be serious.

Another matter about the car; typically, a car that size would normally weigh about 2,000 pounds. If it were made of solid 24 karat gold, it would weigh at least 20,000 pounds of gold. If only half of the car was gold, then it would weigh less, maybe 10,000 lbs = $178,000,000. If it were only the hubcaps, steering wheel etc. That would be realistic. Picking up that grille of that size would weigh over 100 lbs and nearly impossible to pick easily, even for Arnold Schwarzenegger. Good entertainment and fantasy.

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[–] mojo2004 12 years ago

By logic of some sort, they surmise that it's hidden in Shaw's most prized possession, his car in the penthouse and sure enough, there it is.

Did you watch all of the film? Apparently you missed the scene where Slide & Fitz were fighting over the gun Slide pulled on them. He was going to double cross them and take all of Shaw's money that they mistakenly thought was in the safe. The gun went off & a bullet hit the car scraping the paint. Slide then took a crowbar and made a bigger scratch revealing the gold underneath.

Just for the record, I'm not a Dude, I'm a Dudette!

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[–] andrewsk8s 10 years ago

In case anyone here is reading these discussions without seeing the movie...

***SPOILER ALERT****

That was the main bone of contention that I had, accepting the weight of a gold car, as I have held gold (and lead) and know how heavy it is. The window washer rig may not support it, the elevator probably wouldn't (particularly the roof), it would be really difficult to manhandle a load that heavy (i.e. keeping a car much less a gold car upright in an elevator), and the floor of the penthouse might not (unless specially reinforced). Even the weight of the solid gold car parts would be unrealistically heavy for door-to-door residential delivery and if they did, they'd be using handtrucks and pallet jacks.

They could have easily avoided this plot problem by making the McGuffin some other large unwieldy valuable object, just not gold (which is intrinsically heavy).

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] ynf55 13 years ago

Just after the elevator reached the penthouse and the people get out, there is a couple seconds of footage, of what looks like Ben Stiller in front of an elevator door. This means the elevator could go up another floor, the car was just a bit higher than the floor, so it hit the mesh at the very top.

A problem is that the elevator would stall when loaded with 9 people and a car made of gold.

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[–] bing-57 13 years ago

> This means the elevator could go up another floor, the car was just a bit higher than the floor, so it hit the mesh at the very top.

Correct. Also recall that when they were on top of the elevator they worried about hitting to roof of the shaft, indicating that the elevator could have gone higher.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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[–] IwatchStuff 13 years ago

Why is this so difficult to understand? Were you people watching two movies at a time?

Remember the winch that was on top of the roof which lowered the car down?

To take the car to the roof, all they needed to do was to remove it from the elevator (since they were already on the floor at which they originally loaded the car). After that they just had to roll it back into that room through the window and winch it back up to the roof just like they brought it down.

So they just had to retrace their steps and the car was easily back on the roof. But this time they needed to winch it up instead of lowering it down. There is also a splice which suggests that some time has passed between the scenes indicting all of this happened during the chase/after it.

This is exactly why Hollywood movies are so dumbed down for the audience because they cant put two pieces together. If the audience figures out what the director wanted them to figure out then you see threads like "WHY IS THIS MOVIE SO DUMBED DOWN ZOMG I'M TEH SMARRTT11!!!" and if they cant figure it out they blame the director, call it a plot hole and fail to realize that they are inept themselves.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Barbecue 13 years ago

What was to stop the elevator from taking the car to that floor?

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[–] save_ferrisb 13 years ago

Not to mention the difficulties of reattaching the winch to the car, hoisting it to the the top of the building and then turning the crane/winch so that the car is over the ground (I think thats possible in this movie's universe? I don't know the intricacies of window washing equipment).

There was really no need to insult my intelligence just because you were able to justify this poorly conceived ending to yourself. I would have liked to be cleverly surprised as to where they hid the car, not have the immediate thought of 'How did that even get there?'. I mean they didn't even vaguely allude another idea, they literally just copped out on the heist and said '*beep* it, it's i nthe pool because we can'.

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[–] sinisac 13 years ago

Me personally,i dont even care if its possible for them to somehow
materialize the car in the bottom of the pool,the problem is its not particularly interesting to watch something cut in the middle of the action and later add a 5 sec clip explaining it.
I wouldn't get any satisfaction from the fact if i was able, using the towers blueprint to justify how they done it,its not the point of being smart or dumb.
Thing is i like to watch interesting stuff developing on the screen and
and i`m not a big fan of directors taking the lazy way out.

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[–] JKhop 13 years ago

Its not the fact they got the car into the pool that i find impossible...Its how they even got it out of the apartment. They do not really take in account of the weight of gold. The window washer lift if it could hold the car would be impressive. But the motor that operates it is likely not capable of moving that much weight either.

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[–] royturnb 13 years ago

The original car had a curb weight of almost 2900 lbs. It was made of steel with aluminum hood, trunk lid, and doors. Some of the weight is in other materials, like rubber and glass, but gold is about 2.5 times as dense as gold and more than 7 times as dense as aluminum. Just to pick some numbers I'll say there are 2200 lbs of steel, 300 lbs of Aluminum, and 400 lbs in other materials. Given that breakdown it would weigh about 8000 lbs in 24 kt gold (with over 7500 lbs being gold). In 14 kt gold (more practical strength and hardness) the total gold content would drop to about 3000 lbs with a car curb weight of about 5500 lbs (5100 lbs of 14kt gold alloy). Either way the car would be much heavier than normal and the value would be about $180 million in 24 kt gold or $70 million in 14 kt gold.
The movie was fun, but the technical errors were enormous.

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[–] cult1050 13 years ago

burned

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[–] Columbo90 13 years ago

And on top of all that has already been said - there was a security guard waiting in front the of the door to the guy's apartment - the one they had already once knocked out and Stiller had contemplated shooting in the foot - they could've never gotten the car through him.

The flogging will continue until morale improves.

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[–] kaman-rider 13 years ago

"WHY IS THIS MOVIE SO DUMBED DOWN ZOMG I'M TEH SMARRTT11!!!"

this movie was just dumb, not dumbed down. it reflects the mental capacity of the director who must have figured there would be dumbasses who think in the same dumbass way as he.

never mind the technical impracticalities which many others have already pointed out, but you actually thought they had the time and "invisibility" to do what you claimed while FBI agents were running inside the building looking for them!? not to mention the agents in the penthouse would be leaving once they had discovered the theft -- with the car still on top of the elevator...

gee, you are "SMARRTT11"

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[–] dnvs28 13 years ago

This movie had so many plot holes, implausible situations, and psychologically unlikely character behavior that I, for one, don't see the point of zeroing in this one car-to-pool scenario. It was a cute, amusing movie with very funny parts that played like a timely revenge fantasy.
Brett Ratner, the director, produced Prison Break, if I remember correctly. For that alone, I don't think he's a "dumbass." In fact, I found some similarities with PB in terms of how suspense was done in Tower. I think this movie was meant to be light-hearted entertainment and not some complicated how-to on robbing a car out of a guarded apartment or a quest to make the audience feel dumb.
Almost nothing of their plan would actually work as they executed it, so I think it was more of an Ocean 11 spoof and everyone is in on the joke... Seems silly to reject that premise and start looking for a perfectly robbed casino in this movie.

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[–] jingizu_z 11 years ago

I agree with you. I didn't take the movie seriously and the movie didn't take itself seriously. It was just an implausible but very entertaining, fun romp. I enjoyed it.

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[–] Jubileus 13 years ago

Seriously??? That's what you have to say???

1- The "winch" you speak of is used to clean the building's windows, therefore it is attached to the roof of the building (where Enrique was standing when he started operating it) and it can't go higher than that obviously.

2- The swimming pool is one level/floor higher than the roof of the building, it's like an elevated rectangle int the middle of the roof which only the owner of the "VIP room" on top of the building has access to (this is clearly shown in the beginning of the movie).

3- Even if they used the winch, at some point they would have to continue pushing the car by hand (which is unlikely for 6 people, at least the ones involved in this heist) and consequently end up damaging the building (the roof had glass protection on it's edges).

With point 1 and 2 alone, it is clear that your solution to this "mystery" is wrong.

Unlike you, I will not call you inept or dumb because at least you tried. My advice is stop watching those "dumbed down movies"...they are making you think you are smart.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] m-h-m-79 13 years ago

Not to mention a car made of solid gold would weigh several tons. The roof of the elevator would not be able to support that amount of weight. The car would have crashed through the ceiling, then through the floor, then just fall and smash into the floor at the bottom of the elevator shaft. Plus that crane would not have been able to hold the car either.

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[–] spartache 13 years ago

Yep, and no one saws a car hanging from the top of a building earlier with the whole parade on the street. I wonder what the FBI thought when they couldn't found the car, where could it be? lol Not to mention the FBI guy in front of the Shaw's apartment. What happened to him anyway? He never called FBI or NYPD for backup? What's with that?

Only Spartak(Varna)!

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[–] andersen-martin 13 years ago

Actually, from the value of $ 45 million in gold, it's easy to calculate the weight of the gold to approx 800kg, or 0,8 tons.

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[–] Zigawaguay 13 years ago

haha... yes, calculated by the value you might be right. But everyone knows that such a car in a standard edition would weight about 800kg. So, one entirely made of gold would probably be around 4-5 times heavier. Which would make it about 4 tons (if not more, depending on which parts really were made of gold). Either way, I think it's quite funny that an elevator that doesn't work anymore if like 2 people are overweight would support such a weight. Also how they push it around like it's made of marshmallows.

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[–] m-h-m-79 13 years ago

Ok, perhaps the car would not weigh several tons but you know what I meant. So the weight of gold itself is around 800 kg, and let's say an extra 200 kg for all the stuff not made of gold (engine block, seats, etc) to bring it up to 1000 kg even. Then you have the weight of three grown men (let's say 80 kg each) which brings it up to 1240 kg. Now I imagine this is close to the maximum weight capacity for such elevators...all on a ceiling designed to hold some light fixtures and a few thin panels.

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[–] timothy-jan-atkins 13 years ago

Dont forget the estimated value of the cars was 45 million, "give or take 10 million" so it could weight about 1/4 more or one 1/4 less. The reason I watch heist movies is for the intelligent way the robbery is accomplished (like oceans ect) but unfortunately I didn't get that feeling with this movie.

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[–] imadbasayev 13 years ago

Not that it makes much difference but the elevators where I live have a 3500 lb capacity which is about 1600 kg. That the elevator though, not the roof of the elevator.

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[–] dpaweber 12 years ago

Not sure why the gold car parts present such a problem for people. In real life, there would probably be some ethical person who "reported" that he had received gold and refused to accept it for moral reasons. No one would ever risk sending out random gold to hundreds of people even if they were all employees who had been ripped off by the same person. Assuming everyone is "on board" what kind of idiot would walk into a pawn shop with a gold steering wheel? You'd melt it down first into something less conspicuous. This is not out of the realm of the possible. It's symbolic.

The bigger problem is the weight of the car. There's no need to do any math. Sure, most elevator ceilings wouldn't support a car, but this is the Trump International Tower, who's to say it doesn't have a top of the line elevator that can withstand all that weight? No big deal.

As for getting it out of the elevator this is a bit trickier. The problem with simply cutting to the car in the pool is that it's anti-climactic. There's this big build up of tension with the car still on the roof and then automatically it's just there in the pool.

That is problematic but it's not necessarily "impossible" if you still want to make that argument. Who's to say they didn't hide it somewhere else in the building, it's a very large building and they know it inside out, and then move it to the pool several days later - we don't actually know how much time elapsed - Inside Man style?

The problem is not the impossibility but that it would have been that much better if they had showed a clever way of moving the car at the last minute before the FBI circled back to the building.

But nothing here is really impossible. Even the fact that they were moving the car with the crane in broad daylight is not problematic. So some millionaire just bought a ferrari and wants to move it ... you wouldn't automatically think it was a heist. Kovacs goes to jail without evidence? - he's on camera robbing a tower maybe he got hit with a burglary charge and there's also that vandalism to the wall of the apartment, trespassing? His own confession? It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

If you want to make the impossibility argument you need the specs of the building and the specs of the car to make the film work and that's something you simply don't have. You can make conjectures one way or the other but there's really no way of knowing whether an elevator can hold up a car unless you actually do it History Channel style.

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[–] jsohlx-9-788177 13 years ago

Your point may hold merit if you were to post your credentials on being an elevator expert. If you were, you might be surprised at how much of a load an elevator can hold, either in it's entirely or on the top of it. It is very plausible that elevator could in fact hold the weight of the car. We know for fact (from the movie) that the entire car is not made of gold. (otherwise it weigh enough to fall through the floor it sits on.) If the crane can hold it, then certainly a pedestrian elevator could. Then you could say since it went to the parking garage it could have been a service elevator, and with that the payload is significantly higher. It's funny to see the comments about how that is not possible, but nobody is commenting on how if the car was made from entirely gold how these poor tires managed to stay up like the care weighed as if it were guild from the standard materials it was made from...

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[–] One_Man_Army 13 years ago

The film actually makes clear that the car weighed around 2000 pounds, which is only 1 ton. Some elevators are made to actually carry that kind of weight plus quite a bit more, you know. Who's to say that that particular elevator wasn't built to hold 4000 pounds? The film didn't make that clear at all.

Never give in. Never give up. Never surrender.

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[–] El_Beastador 13 years ago

Yep. It was stupid. There's no way they could have got it into the pool. They obviously just skipped right over that because they assumed we are all too stupid to notice.

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[–] Shiddy 13 years ago

Well, how did Alan Alda get the car up there in the first place?

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[–] mxlflx 13 years ago

Alda clearly stated that the car was assembled piece by piece in his living room.

I still believe. Do you still believe? - Earl Hickey

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[–] cmgilliford 13 years ago

The whole car thing is where this film lost me. Too implausible and I can suspend belief but.....! I don;t know if others have mentioned this but there is also the matter of cutting up the car and posting thee bits without anyone noticing. I really was prepared to give this film a chance but it failed for me.

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[–] SxxxxxHxH 13 years ago

Just poor writing destroying a movie like usual in Hollywood. You guys said it best, poor management of multiple plot devices and they went ahead and didn't even try explaining it.

Cops getting slammed by the maid with carts, waking up, doing nothing...

Cars dangling out of sky scrapers and no one notices anything...

Unrealistic FBI banter/situations... Seriously, Stiller going to jail when they never actually found the car (as shown at the end)? How is that justified.

Nothing in this movie is on track with today's reality. Just enjoy it(or not) for what it is.

If I wrote the movie I would've changed it to something more plausible, like anything valuable or just keep it as money; not a freaking car.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] TrickMoneySmitty 12 years ago

I think that might be too plausible for this bunch.

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[–] spencer-young27 13 years ago

I'm watching it as i type...watching a vehicle, and ~10 people travel all on ONE elevator, the cables would simply snap..avg condo would probably be a generous hmm..4000 lbsish capacity. c'maaan matthew broderick's character was a Smart person.

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