MovieChat Forums > Shanghai Kiss (2007) Discussion > Offensive to Chinese (Asian) girls

Offensive to Chinese (Asian) girls


I'm not one of those 'zOmg-AZN-PrYde' girls, but I found some of the dialogue offensive and demeaning to Asian girls. It almost felt as if they implied white girls are better.

Examples:
When Liam told Adi that he "met another girl in China," Adi's response was "What? You're dumping me for some girl? For some CHINESE girl?"

The way she emphasized "Chinese" girl just felt unnecessary. Are Chinese girls not worthy enough for her to get chosen over? Would she feel better if Liam dumped her for a white girl? Her disbelief that she was dumped for a *Chinese* girl is offensive.

Also, just some of the stuff Liam's friend says after Liam gets off the plane is weird. It almost felt as if he were saying it's not worth it for Liam to move just for a "Chinese" girl. Why couldn't he just say "it's not worth leaving just for a girl"? Omit the "Chinese" part and it sounds much less condescending.

(Plus, comparing Kelly Hu to "just like any other Asian girl at Monterey Park" is insulting to Kelly :-P)

Anyways, I really enjoyed "Shanghai Kiss" overall. It's definitely a "feel-good" movie and I have alot of ABC friends who can relate to Liam, so it was interesting for me to watch this movie. My only criticism is that some parts of the dialogue were offensive to Chinese girls...

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Yea it is, unfortunately that's how alot of white people and Americans talk.

But...just to be fair, don't Chinese people talk like that too? I mean don't y'all go "You're going out with a WHITE girl???? That's a no good investment, Wang Chun"

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Hahah...i usually don't say stuff like that.
I don't know...I guess some Chinese people do say stuff like that, but they don't mean it in a derogatory way (most of the time, i hope XD)

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The parents of one of my Indian friends gave him a "no BMW" rule before he went off to college: no blacks, whites, or Mexicans.

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Interesting point (no "BMW" advice) - probably - this represents the mindset of the 3rd wave of Indian immigrants(Rich but conservative). Coz from what I understand, Indian-Mexican marriages were at one point considered a corner stone of the first Indian immigration wave to California (pre-WW1).

http://www.sikhpioneers.org/mexhindu.html

(I am neither a Sikh nor a Mexican).

--
Well, do ya, punk?

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[deleted]

Or they could have just stayed in India and wouldn't need a rule.





Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.

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I think your points are valid. I think though that when Liam's friend (cannot remember his name) and Addie both emphasized "CHINESE girl", it was only because they both knew that Liam did not prefer chinese girls as it was mentioned a couple of times prior to that in the movie. They knew he did not fancy chinese girls as a generality, thus both were surprised that he had fallen head over heels for one - thus the emphasis on "CHINESE girl".

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This indeed.

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Heh I had to laugh because this post is so offensive to me. Think about it, the entire mainstream movie industry in the US is offensive to asian males, and here you are complaining a few scenes and dialogues. Talk about crying about a puddle when you should worry about an ocean.

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Looks who's talking. What makes you think Asian *males* are the only ones targeted? Asian females are the ones who have been portrayed as the "China Dolls" and "Dragon ladies" that have become american fetishes. And no, most girls do not enjoy being someone's "crouching tiger" fetish based on their race.

It's impossible to target one gender of a race, without targeting the opposite gender. By saying that the US movie industry is only offensive to Asian males, you're turning a blind eye to the entire "other side" of the issue.

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"I'm not one of those 'zOmg-AZN-PrYde' girls"

"Asian females are the ones who have been portrayed as the "China Dolls" and "Dragon ladies" that have become american fetishes"

Okay, so now the REAL you has surfaced.



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yea...i'm saying it's OFFENSIVE to be someone's Chinadoll/dragon lady...

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No, you said "american fetishes"

Have you ever considered the fact that you may be delirious and hyper sensitive?



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Have you ever considered the fact that you may be a jerk? Who are you to tell me who I am? Talk about delirious...

As far as I'm concerned, my post was harmless and I was merely expressing my opinion and observation towards a movie that I enjoyed very much. If you disagree, you definitely could've said it without insults (like channelv and the other guy). Instead, you feel the need to parade in here and be completely rude to someone you don't even know. Troll, much?

Sorry if my post was offensive to you in any way, shape, or form.

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buchowski--

um, have YOU ever considered the fact that you may be delirious and hyper insensitive?

she's not saying that every single american sexualizes and demeans women of asian descent. she's saying that there's an american cultural tendency to sexualize and demean asian women. women of all racial backgrounds are frequently sexualized in american media, but women of color have a particularly tough time.

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thepunkmeetsgodfather -

Yeah...Americans are the only group of people that sexually demean Asian women. Right! I'm also the Prime Minister of England. Have YOU ever been to an Asian country? I spent 2 years in South Korea in the Air Force and have been to Thailand, Japan, and the Philippines. From what I have seen in a lot of different parts of those countries is that it's also Asian cultural tendency to sexually demean their own women.

Secondly, the originator of the post took the comments in the movie in a completely different way then what they were meant. As a previous poster said, it was the FACT that Liam didn't like Asian girls the reason they stressed the word "chinese." So yes, she may be a little sensitive.

Fact is, Americans demean our own women, the Chinese demean their own women, races all over the world demean their own women.

Not only that, it's not just women. People demean people. That's how the world works. That's how some people (Hollywood) make money. It's a very unfortunate and sad reality. White people demean white people, black people demean black people. Black people demean white people, white people demean black people. Asians demean Asians. Asians demean whites. Whites demean Asians. I could go on an on.

I'm not here trying to put anybody down. That is the last thing I want to do. I'm just trying to say that there is a much broader aspect to this than people realize or perhaps they do but it's easier to blame someone else.

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Just because it's reality doesn't mean we just have to "take it" or accept it. If we sit back and do nothing then might as well loose respect for ourselves. I'm tired of people saying "it is what it is," because more than likely those are the people who don't DO anything to change reality. They accept the status quo and prolong human injustices yet they proclaim they are "good" humans. BS. I see right through you and I don't like it one bit.

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Okay DCI. You see right through me. Maybe if you took the time to read my response with an open mind instead of a closed one, I would actually take that for more than the grain of salt that it is.

I'm not saying that nobody should do anything about anything. What I am saying is that everybody cries about racism and what not but never accepts responsibility for being guilty of it as well. My input as far as my own life experiences in Korea were for a reason. That reason being that it isn't just white people that demean Asian women.

Secondly, if you are so tired of people saying, "it is what it is," then why don't YOU do something about it? Oh and if you can "see right through me and don't like it one bit," again, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Fact is, you don't know anything about me.

So once again, my message was to make a point, not to say things are what they are and that we must just deal with them. So before you go jumping the gun maybe you should learn how to read into things a little better.

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I don't need to know anything about you to make a statement. You're not going to give me a "you don't know what I've been through" line are ya? Please do.

Secondly, if you are so tired of people saying, "it is what it is," then why don't YOU do something about it? Oh and if you can "see right through me and don't like it one bit," again, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Fact is, you don't know anything about me.


How can I do something about when it's the internet? Am I suppose to cyber punch or something? Again, please articulate your thoughts in a way that makes sense.

So once again, my message was to make a point, not to say things are what they are and that we must just deal with them. So before you go jumping the gun maybe you should learn how to read into things a little better.


This isn't literature class. Say what you have to say without beating around the bush.

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[deleted]

I live in Asia, and I get every racial remark, slur, gesture that you can think of. So yeah, both whites and asians do it! In fact, I've never lived in a country where everyone lives in perfect harmony. It doesn't exist. If you want an excepting film where everyone is equal, go rent a kids movie!

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go cry yourself a river. asian women own the asian experience narrative. every single movie that is about being asian stars an asian woman who *gasp must bridge the cultural gap between living in a white world and an asian world. it's become so *beep* passe, so it's nice to see an asian man as a romantic lead. so deal with it you self hater.

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i'm not asian, but i have definitely noticed how marginalized both asian women and men are in american media. they're rarely portrayed as central characters, and where they do appear they tend to be highly stereotyped (i.e.: the korean couple on lost...he is controlling and dominant while she is submissive--at least she's not a complete sex object, i guess). i see your point, squyerkul2, but i totally understand the original poster's problem.

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I agree with channelv. After all, this movie and its script wasn't written by a white person, it was written by David Ren.

I believe all of the emphasis put on "Chinese" girl is because of what channelv said. Throughout the whole film, it is emphasized and thrown into our faces that Liam hates everything Chinese. So, when he decides to pick up everything and leave just to go to China to be with a Chinese girl, it has to be pointed out he is leaving and "turning over" a new leaf for something that he doesn't love and something that just makes him feel like he belongs. All of a sudden, he loves Chinese things because it makes him fit in - not because he actually loves any of it. It's for selfish reasons that he wanted to leave, and they were selfish reasons without anything positive backing them up.

Naturally, I believe the way it was written was to point this out to us. He didn't "love" Kelly Hu's character; he only chose to be with her BECAUSE she was "Chinese" and that made him feel like he belonged with her and belonged in China.

At the end of the film, though, he realizes he's been looking at things the wrong way all along. You can't help where your home is. You can't change who your family is, and most of all, you can't control who you fall in love with. Liam was trying to control everything, only to have everything against him because of that. But when you let go and live instead of trying to force everything (moving to China would have been forcing things to go "right" for once in his life, but it wouldn't have helped him in any way), then life comes naturally the way it's supposed to.

I don't think this was about pick the "White" girl or the "Chinese" girl. It's about embracing what you are and where you come from without forsaking WHO you are in the present and the events that have shaped you. Liam couldn't change the fact that he was American, American born and raised and influenced, and running away from it would have been lying to himself all the same.

In the end, he found a nice balance. He accepted he was American with Chinese heritage and he embraced both. It let him follow his dream and also finally be the one who he truly loved, regardless of her own background. (I think her age was also made younger to give Liam a REASON to pull away. If she had been old enough, Liam probably never would have left her, and we needed a reason for him to leave her. Hence, "oh she's too young for him.")

Anyway, that's my two cents.


******
I asked for freedom; they could offer me nothing above death.

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I'm not one of those 'zOmg-AZN-PrYde' girls, but I found some of the dialogue offensive and demeaning to Asian girls. It almost felt as if they implied white girls are better.
Oh shut up.

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WOw, thanks for the insight

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"WOw, thanks for the insight"

Were you born in China? Are you a Chinese national? No, you're American.



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Actually, yes, I was born in China--Changsha

If i were american, i wouldn't have bothered to make this post at all

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and btw, "wow, thanks for the insight" was my reply to droverchicago, not you...

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what america are you living in, buchowski? you seem to have absolutely no awareness that racism and sexism are still alive and well in america (as they are in most of the world). recognizing this doesn't make someone "sensitive" or "un-american." it means they're mature individuals that want to examine and contribute to the world around them rather than merely absorbing media and accepting it all without thinking critically about the messages they're being fed.

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Being an Asian male from Hawaii, where over half the population is Asian, I guess I don't really "FEEL" the whole Asian oppression thing. So my view may be a little skewed. The way I see it, one of the major plot points involves an asian male, realizing that He's looking for something and He feels that He'll find it in Shanghai because He isn't just the "Asian Guy" there. I don't mean to be insensitive but the "Offensiveness" is really just another tool to demonstrate what Liam's really feeling. I think it's good that some people were offended. I mean in a way it helps the audience to experience what the main character is going through.

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[deleted]

"So don't get to worked up about yourself just because of a few quotes. This is the first and probably only movie I'll ever see with a white girl and asian guy relationship."

- I agree with the sentiment to this comment. I mean everyones complaining about ethnic stereotypes and racist comments, not to mention how Hollywood exploits all these things. This movie on the other hand, breaks the convention doesn't it? Asian guy hooks up with Blonde Beauty--plus the movie mocks the way Hollywood pigeon holes Asian actors.

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[deleted]

Wait...in Mean Girls, the Asian girl (Trang Pak) was all over a white coach, not a cute white guy. That was mainly added for comedic affect...Haha, I really liked that movie, so I just have to throw that in here before I make any points.

As for what you said about:
yeah, that's what I pretty much see on Hollywood "Our men are pathetic, asian girls have it better with white guys" or "kill our men, sleep with our women"

I just gotta say that girls don't exactly consider it flattering or anything when we're merely objects of sexual desire. I totally agree with you that Hollywood is unfair to Asian men. And yes, they do have it worse. But Asian girls being portrayed as sex dolls/kittens isn't exactly the image we want for ourselves in this country. So ok, we get together with the white guys--so what? So the way Hollywood sees it: Asian men are pathetic and Asian girls are good to scr*w. No one wins here.

The other main roles we've been portrayed as is female spies (ex, Charlie's Angels)...well I mean, Jet Li gets some pretty badass roles where he gets together with white chicks and even black chicks too...So basically, getting portrayed at exotic sex dolls who are just good for *beep* isn't exactly something Asian girls pride ourselves on, haha.

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antitrust--

i don't think he was saying that it was a compliment for asian women to be sexualized in american media. i think he was highlighting the stereotypes that exist for both sexes. anyway, i agree with you both.

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You havn't seen any of Jet Li's movies have you? He NEVER gets with them. He may save them from the bad guy, but he never kisses them.



Ade due damballa, GIVE ME THE POWER I BEG OF YOU!

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mistahcool--

i'm a white girl, but i completely agree with everything you said in your post. american media really needs a reality check.

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Sounds like you have a problem with white people in general my friend. Myself personally am white and I like Asian women. Then again I find a lot of women from a lot of different races attractive. Would you have been less upset if she got with another Asian guy instead of you? I mean regardless she was still getting with someone else. I think you were just upset that she got with someone else and tried using the fact that he was white to justify your anger. Personally I see no problem with interracial dating. Apparently you do.

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I just rented this film from my local Blockbuster yesterday. I've viewed it twice so far. I've wanted to see this film for a long time, but it was always checked out.
Anywho, I've read this post and all of the replies. I felt compelled to add my "$1.95's" worth to this thread. (This might go a bit long, so please hear me out.)

As an Asian-American male (Japanese-American, actually), I really enjoyed this film a great deal. I thought that, for the most part, the performances were outstanding and very credible...with one exception.
Normally, like most red-blooded (Asian-American) males, find Kelly Hu to be almost Aphrodite-like. While she looked stunning as usual and her acting was wonderful, the one thing that I couldn't get over was her lack of authenticity. She kept slipping in and out of her accent, just like Kevin Costner in "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves." That really annoyed me. I expected more from her.
That's not to say that she didn't grasp her character. It's just that she demonstrated a limited acting range in this film. In the film "Fakin' da Funk," she was able to maintain a (stereotypical) Chinese accent thru-out her performance.
I think that the producers and directors were just way to enamored with the fact that they had this almost-legendary beauty on their film, they forgot that she couldn't maintain any authenticity with her accent.
Now, if Tamlyn Tomita wasn't so seasoned as an actress, she would've been just as good...AND she's great with accents!

Now that I've gotten that out of the way...

A lot of really great points have been brought up in this topic. It's very clear to me that a majority of you all have valid points.

Most Asian-Americans come from, what my late mother would quaintly call, a "village mentality." This means that their primary sphere of influence would be other Asian-Americans. They mainly socialized with other Asians. And, if you break it down even more, there would be the obvious sub-cultural demographics (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Filipino, Vietnamese, Thai, etc.).
This is only natural. It's just how things are within the Asian culture.

However, I grew up in a very unique environment, as compared to most Asian-Americans. I grew up in the American Military subculture.
My late father was a career US Marine. He met my late mother while he was stationed in Japan. However, my father was Nisei (2nd-generation Japanese-American) from Hawaii. He was fluent in most of the Asian languages, especially Japanese. However, he once told me that he had never intended on marrying an Asian, let alone Japanese, girl. He had aspirations, like Liam in the film, to be with a "Marilyn Monroe" type of girl (big round eyes, bigger breasts). When he met my mother, even though she was Japanese, she fit his criteria.

I can totally relate to a lot of what Liam goes thru in the film. Even though I may look Asian, I am thru-and-thru an "All-American" guy.
I've been romantically involved with women who aren't Asian at all. This is because my mother raised me to believe that, in her own words, "if Capt. Kirk in 'Star Trek' can be attracted to a green-skinned alien girl," then the ethnicity of the woman whom I'm with doesn't matter.
My younger brother, who's more "white-washed" than me, is married to a wonderful "Georgia Peach"/Southern Belle.

All I'm saying is that this film realistically explores the world view of the Asian-American male.

Now then, on to my next point...

I felt the that how all of the women in this film were treated, with the exception of Addy (the luminous Harden Panettiere), was disturbing and, well...chauvenstic. They were mainly portrayed as "disposable sex objects" for Liam to conquer, regardless of race/ethnicity.
I agree that Liam has a kind'a, as the commentary track says, a sort'a "Al Pancino-like" charisma and charm, but I mean c'mon! When was the last time you saw someone like Liam, who's smallish and dishovled, walk up to a woman with supermodel looks and wind up hooking up with her? Not once, but twice?! Sorry, not very realistic...

One final point that I'd like to address is the treatment of the Asian-American male in modern US Cinema. As a life-long student of film, I have noticed a few things.
Mainly, Asian-American males are pretty much invisible or persona non grata in the eyes of mainstream Hollywood. That is, unless you have any martial arts skill. I, for one, am sick and tired of how we Asian-American males are treated in US Cinema.
I mean, Hollywood doesn't seem to want to have Asian-American leading men. And, it's pretty much unfathomable for Hollywood to even consider an Asian-American male for a romantic leading role.
The last Asian-American actor who had the lead in a mainstream Hollywood film was Jason Scott Lee in "Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story." His performance demonstrated the power & passion that we Asian-American males possess. However, as with the legend that he portrayed, it would seem that Hollywood is not ready or prepared for such things.

Just like any series of stereotypes, it's going to take an awfully long time for Hollywood to accept Asian-Americans as viable actors & actresses. Just look at how long it's taken for Hollywood to even begin to consider African-American and Latino actors & actresses as plausible leads.
It's going to significantly longer for Asian-Americans to gain that kind of acceptance simply because, as a culture, we are perceived as being passive. Only once we've raised our voices in protest and bring attention to ourselves will Hollywood eventually take notice.




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To Topic starter: All races are always offended by hollywood movies. Some wayyyy more than asians.

To Macrosplus.
LOL!

We don't need to protest, we just need an attitude adjustment.

The whole acting industry, in Hollywood is like 70% white. 30 % minorities. and outta that minority, i would say barely 5% is asian.

With such a unpopulous asian acting demographic..its surprising that you can even find asian actors.

Truth is, alot of asians for the most part don't ever consider acting...they don't want to be performers, they like more academic pursuits.
Sorry for channeling the sterotype, but that is one sterotype based on a big truth.

Whos to blame? Non Westernized Asian parents. Any asian will know that parents from Asia are all about SCHOOL and Grades. Social skills, and being well adjusted doesn't mean anything. Which makes Good looking asians who can act, neglect their gift, and lose it at Grad school.

My mom is from asia, but she has VERY liberal thinking, and accepts western ideals to her parenting, which she has taken many attacks for by fellow asian colleagues, calling her a bad mother, low-class etc....& why??

Just because, my grades were not 90s, and i pursued a career in the arts and fitness industry.

I was always called a "whitewashed" asian by other asians just because i was very articulate, my english coloquialism was bang-on, did not excel in Academics, I obsessed over "american" sports, and i ventured into modelling. And my career choice was fitness trainer & actor.

To them, That is very uncharacteristic of an asian male, Who apparently should get top grades,and go into University and do business and enter corporate world.

Not for me.

I went into a Acting/Modelling prep Program, guess what?
25-30 people there...me and another guy were the only asians.Just 2 asians.
handful of blacks,.all the rest white.
And i was in Toronto...Asians are almost a majority in that city!!!!

So until asians start pursuing acting, the chances of more and more asian lead roles are going to remain nonexistant.






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