MovieChat Forums > El laberinto del fauno (2007) Discussion > The disgusting political bias ruined thi...

The disgusting political bias ruined this movie for me

posted 11 years ago by Vargtimmen88
31 replies | jump to latest

Let me star by saying that I regard Del Toro as one of the most talented and creative filmmakers of his generation, however, it's a shame he decided to shove down our throat his one-sided version of Spain's historic events.

Such shameless bias, unfortunately, managed to ruin an otherwise brilliant movie (at least it did for me).

I'm talking of course about the way the falangists/nationalists (personified by Captain Vidal) are portrayed as one-dimensional sexist ruthless child-murdering butchers, while the republican communists are portrayed as either heroic do-gooders (the guerrilla soldiers hidden in the mountains) or innocent victims (the old man and his son in the beginning of the movie, the captured soldier, doctor Ferreira, Mercedes, etc).

The truth is, the Spanish civil war wasn't as black and white as some people believe. The francoist nationalists were the lesser of two evils, and had the republicans (which were sponsored by the USSR) won the civil war, Spain would had turn into a third world sh!thole like Cuba and the political repression/attacks on individual freedom would had been even worse than under Franco.

Just because the falangists won the the war and the commies lost, doesn't make the firsts bad and the later good. Del Toro is not even Spanish which makes his bias even more annoying and illegitimate. If he wanted to have this film with an authoritarian setting in a Spanish speaking country why didn't he made it in Cuba under Castro's despotic communist regime?

Again, great movie, visually stunning, but the shameless pro-commie propaganda was sickening.

[–] Im_your_Papi 11 years ago

You know your history quite well; I'm quite impressed. While I may not be directly Spanish myself, my lineage is mostly from the country itself, though my ancestors already had been in Mexico for generations. Los Falangistas in fact, strengthened Spain so much that by the 50's Spain was already having ties and opening talks with the West because of Franco's staunch anti communist beliefs. In fact, one of the Spanish heroes of the Blue Division, Agustín Muñoz Grandes was one of the 3 recipients of the Iron Cross with Oak Cluster, and was awarded again by the US for his and the Blue Division's stand against the REDS. Not to mention that many of the Baltic countries saw the Blue Division as heroes to overthrow Stalin during WW2. but unfortunately the celebration was short lived.

I do have to say one thing, at least the dictatorship in Spain ended with Franco as he tried to pass on the torch to restore a monarchy, but it wasn't to be as Spain was being made into a democratic and free election country like the rest of the Western Powers. I don't praise the Falangist, but I too know quite a bit of history. You want to know more about commies, read up on Leon Degrelle and his books. He was a Belgian Collaborator with a particular interesting life and outlook and the only politician to go from politics to being an SS commander leading from the front only to end up in exile in Spain until his death in 1994. in fact, rumor has it, that his contracting company was one of the ones chosen to build the Rota AFB in Spain.

[–] Vargtimmen88 11 years ago

Thank you.

Agreed. It's an indisputable fact that if Spain is the powerful european economy that it is today it's mostly thanks to General Franco's regime.

Actually, in my country there were also a lot of volunteers who joined the Blue Division to fight the red scum in eastern Europe. Their efforts were truly heroic but unfortunately these men won't ever get the recognition they deserve due to our leftist political establishment.

I already red a few things by Degrelle but thanks anyway. Quite an interesting guy indeed.

[–] Delvin1 11 years ago

Spain is a powerful European economy today? Someone should tell them that because 26% of their citizens are unemployed.

[–] justwrite3 11 years ago

I don't understand why you needed to create a new thread on this topic when it's already discussed in a thread right next to yours on the forum page (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0457430/board/thread/218141571).

But since you did, I'll repeat my argument on that thread.

The film doesn't endorse the communists. They are shown as rebels fighting against a brutal fascist regime; the fact that they are communist is incidental in the story.

It's just following the situation as it was in Spain at that time. The character of Vidal fits as a military commander on the fascist side, so the forces against him are, by default, the communists. But the communist ideology isn't mentioned, and the characters on that side are characters, not communist characters.

When it comes to communism versus fascism, why is it either/or? To most people, it's neither/nor. And that's where Spain wound up eventually, post-Franco.

[–] Im_your_Papi 11 years ago

I beg to differ that the side characters weren't communists, in fact they were. Remember the crippled dirtbag named "El Francés" or The Frenchman in English? His lapel carried a small red star, the red star of Lenin. In fact, when I was much younger, some exiled SPanish Blue Division people made it in Mexico, and let's say, such good and humble people as I've ever met. Myself being a US Army Vet, I like to sit with any soldier and veteran from any country to share our stories. The weird things is, that my choice of heroes, maybe someone elses villains and vice versa. Any military soldier that shows courage under fire has my utmost respect.....except for the red basterds, they can burn in hell for all I care.

[–] justwrite3 11 years ago

So one small red star on a lapel turns every resistance character into an in-your-face depiction of communists and makes the film a promotion of communists? No.

You have a personal issue with communists, and your beliefs are up to you, but the fact is that you're projecting your hatred of communists onto the film and blowing the "communist" aspect completely out of proportion to what is shown on film. I stand by my assertion that the film doesn't promote communism and that the characters in the resistance being communist is incidental.

[–] Im_your_Papi 11 years ago

Actually that one little star is all it takes. Not to mention that communist propaganda was also intercepted carried by that old man and his son that were "hunting" by Vidal and his crew, and consequently executed. All it takes is little bread crumbs to lead you to a much bigger prize. I personally don't know Mr. Del Toro, but if by some slim chance he's available to answer some questions at Comic Con, I may raise the question just to satisfy my curiosity. Franco wasn't the most likable dictator on the planet, yet the US was able to work with him after WW2, not to mention that he did put Spain back on the map after falling from grace before the turn of the 20th century by losing its final holdings.

If you've seen "El Espinazo del diablo" or The Devil's Backbone, you'll kinda get that Del Toro is somewhat sympathetic to the communists. Some of the characters in the movie are pro Commie, but the details are kinda vague since I haven't seen the movie in nearly 7 years.

I can't say very much about the first Hellboy, since the Nazis have always been the bad guys though. But I will say this about Del Toro, he's pretty good at what he does, whether in English or in Spanish, he does bring a certain class to his movies and fantastic script writing and luckily I do speak both languages not to require subtitles. Though there are some portions in his movies which utilize actual Spanish actors--not Mexican--that I do require to listen a bit more closely since some parts of Spain, the Castillian is spoken faster than normal, but I do thank him that he uses some actors from Madrid and Northern Spain since their dialects--or should I say the proper Spanish--I can understand with ease.

But as far as those Commie republican slime, they would have driven Spain into ruin and turned it into a third world crap hole just like Fidel Castro did to Cuba. I like the way you think though, it shows you have a darn good head on your shoulders, and it's true what you said, I do have a certain disgust and abhorrence to communists because of their true origin. I do have an open mind on what I read and have read many papers and books from the "right" wingers and their beliefs. Have a good day.

[–] activista 11 years ago

@Im_your_Papi

Just because you hate the communists dosen't mean that the fascists were any better than them----fascist countries were just as bad when it came to completely taking away people's civil rights. Don't glorify a damn fascist just because you hate communism. And Franco was a dictator,period----he wasn't any less of a dictator just because he wasn't a communist. I don't see you gloriying Mussolini, who was known as a vicious Fascist dictator to the bone---that's why his people gradually turned on him.

I really liked this movie, and frankly, you're making way too big a damn deal out of the politics of it---the film really wasn't even that political anyway---you're just projecting your own bias and political issues onto it.

[–] Im_your_Papi 11 years ago

I prefer the lesser of the two evils myself in comparison. While 2 of the 3 dictators fell, It was the third--Franco--that actually sealed some deals with the west for not being part of WW2, in fact, even some of the participants of the Blue Division were commended for their staunch hatred against communists when they became a threat in the 50's. Eventually Spain did go democratic after Franco's death in 1975 and Fascism died then and there. One poster did mention a nice quote, and I agree, about Fascism being only a temporary fix to a problem. While I don't believe in a complete authoritarian regime since power can corrupt a person, it did however make countries a bit more efficient, gave national pride to one's culture, and to a lesser degree worked with companies and corporations that could benefit the people. While the cons.....well, being under ones thumb isn't exactly my cup of tea. I mean really, If the western powers hated any type of dictatorships, then why work along with Spain for decades, not to mention that both benefited from each other and Franco did allow the US to have a bit of Rota Naval Station in case of any impending attack by the Russkies.

As far as Mussolini, he was the model, but it doesn't mean he was perfect, the power and hunger for conquest got the better of him and thus, he's a failure. But nonetheless, he was somewhat important to Hitler, since Adolf admired the way Il Duce did things. Had Mussolini not been important, then why send in a rescue party commander by Otto Skorzeny--a monstrous beast--to rescue Benito in the first uprising. Hitler and Mussolini had more faults against them and thus, I don't glorify a more evil regime. Spain on the other hand, at least kept terrorists and commies at bay. Spain to me.....it may be one of the two countries that I have blood lineage from, but to me, it's the last bastion of Mediterranean supremacy that the world has ever known, and even though their reign lasted less than a century, the history behind it cannot be ignored. From being a backwater peninsula founded by Phoenicians, Celts, and native Iberians to being a beautiful part of the Roman empire to being conquered many times and eventually fell to Moorish hands for 700 years, to becoming the first nation to make trips across the Atlantic to the new world a novelty. Not to mention--Cavemen. Neanderthals. At least for those of us of some European or pure European lineage.

[–] latin_buddy 10 years ago

Spanish Blue Division veterans exiled to Mexico? Why? Tired of receiving medals after coming back from helping Hitler at the Eastern Front?

[–] Vargtimmen88 11 years ago

I honestly didn't saw that thread back when I created mine, probably because it wasn't in the first page of these boards 6 days ago (the last post on that thread was 4 days ago but the one before was in 22 of January, hence why it wasn't in the first page 4 days ago).

The fact that they are portrayed as this romantic heroic resistants does indeed come out as a subtle endorsement of the communists. While there's no explicit promotion of the communist ideology itself, making them the good guys of the story is meaningful enough.

As for my opinion of fascism, I share exactly the same thoughts on the issue as Ludwig von Mises:

"It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history. But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error."

[–] ciprianl 10 years ago

I really like the "Fascism and similar movements" part from your von Mises quote. Does it mean that regimes with a similar ideology like the Fascists ones were all similarly "full of the best intentions"? The South-African apartheid regime? That of World War II imperial Japan? And last, but not least, the Third Reich?

[–] darthkarl66 11 years ago

Goose Stepping Nazi much?

[–] Vargtimmen88 11 years ago

Yes, pointing out that neither the communists were saints nor the francoists were the cartoonish monsters like Del Toro portrayed them, totally makes me a nazi.

[–] darthkarl66 11 years ago

No, they way you went about it makes you look a bit suspect. Unfortunately for you Fascists often are indeed, cartoonish monsters. Ever heard of the Waffen SS by chance? How about the Ustase?

[–] korbendallas-2 10 years ago

What makes you a schoolbook example of a Nazi is the simple fact that you are spewing classic Nazist propaganda without even recognizing it as such. Basically, everything you are saying sounds like something lifted directly, word-to-word, from a WWII Goebbels propaganda leaflet.

The only reason you are not recognizing your Nazist personal setup as such is that you were born into it. Since it is something that you naturally recognize as a baseline, a norm, you simply fail to notice the simple fact that you are a Nazi.

[–] Satan2016 (25525) 3 years ago

Communists are much worse than Nazis.

[–] yusef-ghanima 10 years ago

did the political bias ruin chendlers list for you?

[–] korbendallas-2 10 years ago

Well, as I said in my other posts, you are a typical run-of-the-mill example of a victim of Nazist propaganda disseminated by the modern Nazist regimes, like USA and many other modern Western Nazi countries. You live in a rather primitive fictional propaganda universe, based on your ignorance instead of reality. Various mythical "despotic communist regimes" that exist only in your head is the dead giveaway.

Meanwhile, this movie is set up in the real historical universe, however "fairy-tailish" and simplified it is in that regard. It is set up in the world that was saved from destruction by "commies". Everything good that exists on the modern world was built by USSR and only by USSR. This is the legacy the entire Free Word is so desperately trying to preserve today, since especially today it is so painfully obvious that the greatest threat to this world is the newborn Western Nazism. The legacy of those "commies" is the last hope the world has.

To put it is a blunt black-and-white fashion, it is clear to anyone that the history of the world is the history of the fight between Nazism and Communism. And people in this world without exception, are fighting for the Communism to win. (Not you, of course, but after what was done to your head by the propaganda of the regime you were trapped in, you don't really qualify as a person.)

[–] Vargtimmen88 9 years ago

At first I was going to answer you but then I red these gems

modern Nazist regimes, like USA and many other modern Western Nazi countries

Everything good that exists on the modern world was built by USSR and only by USSR.

and understood you are either an hilarious troll or just mentally ill.

[–] asmomo 10 years ago

Under Franco Spain had mass emigration, constant need for foreign aid, and a GDP/capita half that or less of the average for Western Europe. Maybe not a third world country but pretty bad for a country that wasn't hit by WW2.

[–] Phrixotrichus 10 years ago

Spot on

[–] diegoavilarodriguez 9 years ago

I would like to make the point that, to me, the political stance and views of Captain Vidal seem more like backstory to his character rather than any political message. The war is a mere backdrop for the film, and I don't think the film is choosing one side or the other. Just my two cents.