Who is your suspect?
Just curious to see what sort of different opinions there are here. Arthur Leigh Allen? Rick Marschall? Larry Kane? Someone else?
shareRoss Sullivan.
shareAnd that's the extent of the evidence on him.
shareHe was obviously the Zodiac Killer.
shareWhich is why you're posting one-liners on here, right, "Bugs"? Even your Sullivan-central ZKS hasn't been talking about Ross for months... What a bad joke of a suspect! As Trump would say on IMDb: "YOU'RE BLOCKED!"
shareI don't think Ross is a "joke" of a suspect. He is probably the best suspect for the Bates murder, but nobody can be sure she was a Zodiac victim. I haven't seen anything to rule Ross out, but there is definitely not enough to make him a top suspect. It's just a tough task finding info on him, and his whereabouts are kind of unknown during the murders.
shareWhich is why, long before the New Year, "Ross" threads dried up over at ZKS – where you are an active member, Ophion. Admin, Morf has gone AWOL like Voigt over his "GAIK." Perhaps Morford & Voigt will have better luck with their ongoing search for Sasquatch.
"It's just a tough task finding info on him, and his whereabouts are kind of unknown during the murders."
Conveniently, for Morford and his flunkies who undoubtedly seek to milk this for many more years, the pitiable, obese, schizophrenic Ross was institutionalized and – surprise! – that confidential "whereabouts" data is sealed.
It has become the nauseating regurgitation of three tenuous generalities about Sullivan, the RCC library, and the Presidio sketch, which is so accurate that ZKS members are now matching it to Joe Stine, Paul's brother!
Morford and his assembled team of amateurs could have done this work on a P.O.I. in private, but he just had to stake his public name (and their anonymous names) on it – libeling the surviving Sullivan relatives in the process.
Actions... meet Consequences. share
@Longcandle, you're a joke hiding behind an anonymous screen name, though I have a good idea who you are. One difference between you and I, is that I know more about this case then you can ever hope to know. There's an old saying..."those who can't play coach". That's you. You don't know go out and dig for answers or for suspects, you just comment negatively on others that do. Man up and don't hide behind a screen name. and let's talk some Zodiac.
I am not selling anybody on Ross, and I don't care who People like or don't like as a Suspect,but get the facts right.
Ross being 'Obese'?? Not correct,at the time of his death he may have been, but during Z crimes, witnesses described as stocky, powerful, and solid. Not one called him Fat or obese, and one Guy said he was around 260.
Ross not driving?? There has been a witness that mentioned a motorcycle, and a VW Bug.
Get your facts straight,and produce your own Suspect...if you have any skills to. Some things are not known about Ross, that's true, but two things are and can not be disputed, Ross looks identical to the sketch of Zodiac, and Ross worked in the Riverside Library where Zodiac's writing was found. These are inconvenient truths for you!
For those that want to really learn about the case and make their own decisions about Zodiac,(don't just listen to me, or worse yet,listen to Longcandle)check out my site:
zodiackillersite.com
Mike Morford(I don't hide behind anonymous screen names)
"Bugs Moran," "duckking2001," Ophion, Morford, Styslinger, etc., etc. ... Welcome all to ZKS on IMDb, as they seek to saturate every available website with their drivel.
witnesses described [Ross] as stocky, powerful, and solid.
Get back to us when you have photos in place of weak hearsay. Your own members forever bicker over weight estimates with what little you do have.
When it comes to the mental illness, schizophrenia, you've demonstrated yourself to be an ignoramus who would rather reference Russell Crowe movies than do some serious research. You and "Paul_Averly" need to educate yourselves on the disorder, and for a start: psychosis vs. psychopathy (antisocial personality disorder)—beyond your Netflix psychology internship. Stop the stereotyping or else SHUT UP.
So where did your Ross threads go Morford? That is, if you have gathered so much convincing circumstantial evidence on him besides the three tenuous generalities you've been parroting for years. EDIT UPDATE: Furthermore, Morford, as of Jan. 30, 2017, why did you heavily censor your YouTube videos' comments on Ross in order to remove dissenting opinion or posts asking you for more evidence? Oops! You'd best take down that recent ZKS thread where your staff agrees on how much Paul's brother, Joe Stine (!) resembles the Presidio sketch – or half the crew cut population of American youth in 1960's yearbooks.
Did it finally sink in that libeling the surviving Sullivan family is not cool? Did it at last occur to you that people outside your egocentric mini-world are keeping them updated (from inside ZKS!) and advising them on their legal options?
Inconvenient? For you, rather, and your retinue of anonymous Kowakian monkey-lizard trolls. Any "circumstantial" evidence on Sullivan can't hold a candle () to what there is on Allen. Get busy with your own IMDb movie – just don't be sued! This forum is about Fincher's Zodiac, which has nothing to do with failed "suspect," R. Sullivan or "The Pigeon Boy of Albany." Oh, yeah, how's that Pigeon Boy trail of breadcrumbs coming along?
EDIT: Prints? ... Ballistics? Right! As if, he would keep the same guns & ammo decades longer, even beyond his molestation conviction. Morford boasts expertise on the case but clearly doesn't read the posts/threads on his site from members with connections to L.E. today who have informed doubts about the reliability of original (blood/saliva/prints) "evidence." Moreover, investigators cannot match any of those across letters and/or crime scenes.
Morford holds the innocent Sullivan family's feet to the fire by forever publicly challenging them to DNA tests in order to "clear" Ross. If that happened and the lab tests came back negative, does anyone honestly believe that Morford would be avowing Ross definitely wasn't Zodiac because his was assuredly tested against the Zodiac's DNA?!
'Member authentic Zodiac DNA? Yeah, I 'member! 'Member Sullivan? Oh, I 'member! 'Member widow's peak? Yeah, I 'member! That was fantastic. 'Member 'Moe' Morford, 'Larry' Butterfield and 'Curly' Voigt? Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk, I 'member! 'Member Kowakian monkey-lizards Hella sure I 'member!
Everyone take a screenshot of the rejoinder below for posterity's sake.
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You further prove your stupidity by *beep* on Ross Sullivan as a Suspect, while clinging to Allen who has been ruled out by every way imaginable. DNA, did NOT match. Prints Did NOT match. Ballistics did NOT match.
Here's what we can say for sure, Ross may not have been Zodiac, but Allen definitely wasn't Zodiac. do some research on your own, and don't believe everything you saw in the movie
Hi, Morf! I agree that Ross cannot be ruled out as a suspect, but I don't think Allen can either. I just don't think that Zodiac's DNA is what is on file because I don't think he wrote the letters. I know law enforcement ruled him out, but honestly I think that is a mistake. There are so many things that point to Allen. I'm not saying that makes him guilty, because it doesn't, obviously. All I'm saying is that I don't think he should be ruled out.
share@longcandle Don't include my name in any of this. If you have a problem with any of these other people, leave me out of it. I have no problem with you or anyone else, but I don't want my name in any kind of drama. I post at ZKS as well as other sites, but I'm not a follower or an ass-kisser. Leave me out of anything that doesn't involve what I am interested in - gathering information, sharing my ideas, listening to the ideas of others and really just having some good (and hopefully friendly) conversation.
shareYep, I am a member at ZKS. Just because there has not been much talk on Sullivan lately means nothing to me. I do think he deserves serious consideration as a Bates suspect, though... Tom's site is a ghost town anymore (good, he is a douche) and Morf's site still has a lot of activity going on. I find useful information there all the time and I am grateful to have a site to go to where there are some great researchers posting new information all the time. Now, when it comes down to any 'political' type of stuff or on the site or any group of 'flunkies', I don't even know about that because I don't care and don't even notice those type of things. For me it is all about the research. I find it fun and it helps me get through the night at work. I'm not a Sullivan guy myself, but I have to ask - Why do you have a problem with Sullivan's name being made public? He has been dead for 40 years. There are plenty of other suspects/POI's who have living family yet you don't mention anything about their names being made public. I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from here.
shareIt's also pretty much the extent of the evidence on Arthur Leigh Allen. Sullivan seems to have been too tall to have matched the descriptions of the Zodiac, but Allen was even more dissimilar - Sullivan and Zodiac both had hair, at least.
shareSorry. No. Allen can be placed in Vallejo – Sullivan can’t… ever. There is a hell of a lot more circumstantial evidence against Allen—must I restate all this?—evidence which continues to build to this day: see recent discoveries of Allen’s entire vehicle collection.
Sullivan can’t even be placed driving/owning a car on the murder dates, try as his desperate proponents might to force the obese, schizophrenic Ross onto a motorbike at Lake Berryessa!
Longcanddle wrote
"Sorry. No. Allen can be placed in Vallejo – Sullivan can’t… ever. There is a hell of a lot more circumstantial evidence against Allen—must I restate all this?—evidence which continues to build to this day: see recent discoveries of Allen’s entire vehicle collection.
Sullivan can’t even be placed driving/owning a car on the murder dates, try as his desperate proponents might to force the obese, schizophrenic Ross onto a motorbike at Lake Berryessa!"
As Ross can't be placed in Vallejo, Allen can't be placed in the Riverside Library where Zodiac's writing was linked,but Ross can be, and he was there,in fact,hes the ONLY suspect to ever be confirmed to be in the RCC Library where Zodiac's writing was found
Good point, morfm.
When you look at it all, Ross Sullivan really does make for a very telling suspect in the Zodiac case. Although his height does give me some pause for thought, there really is enough in there (in particular, his connection to the Bates murder at Riverside), to make me think he hasn't yet truly been ruled out in every way he could be.
And more to the point, I reckon he makes a more viable suspect (at least as of now) than Arthur Leigh Allen ever did, even prior to the introduction of DNA evidence. The fact that you can find some individuals (like longcandle, for example) constantly flogging a dead horse of a suspect who was exonerated long ago, doesn't mean that those theorists actually have anything helpful to add to the case.
Hopefully, this case will one day be solved - and if and when that happens, charlatans like Robert Graysmith, Gareth Penn, Blaine Blaine and Raymond Grant will have a lot to answer for.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/16/62/2e/16622ed640a1ceb9b5525077cce37249.jpg
but Ross can be, and he was there,in fact,hes the ONLY suspect to ever be confirmed to be in the RCC Library where Zodiac's writing was found
Did every body catch that? Mr. Morford is fond of making specious, convoluted statements like this in order to deceive people into thinking that on the evening of the murder, Ross Sullivan was at RCC campus—let alone, in and around the college library.
and he was there,in fact ...
No. One more inconvenient truth for Morford, et al. In fact, there is absolutely NO evidence and NO witness testimony to establish that Ross Sullivan was anywhere near RCC on the evening of the murder: Sunday, October 30, 1966.
EDIT UPDATE: Michael Morford, as of Jan. 30, 2017, heavily censored his YouTube videos' comments on his pet suspect, Ross Sullivan in order to remove most dissenting opinion, including posts simply requesting more evidence. share
Immature humour, much?
shareNo, humor.
share"No, humor."
*Sigh*...I can just tell you're from North America, aren't you? Sorry, mate, but we don't spell it that way Down Under - get used to it.
And, so far, at least, I see far less reason to distrust Mike Morford than Robert Graysmith. Just saying.
Mike Butterfield had a contingent of loyal Aussie subjects a few years back, too, and look where his forum is... just saying.
EDIT: Hey, everybody! Amazingly, after nigh on a six-month hiatus, some "Ross" threads have resurfaced over at ZKS. What a coinkydink! (Right?) ... but the "PRO vs. CON" remains banished to the Admin's scrapheap of Inconvenient Truths.
Let's see what they have...
"Ross Handwriting": 21 thread pages since Nov. 13, 2014, and here is where the graphology/handwriting/questioned document "expert" examiners are at:
Can see much resemblance in the 5's. Also in the original post, to me only the 6's and 2's looked similar. The 8's looked really different.
Hopefully some more writing samples can be found.
"Harriet Sullivan":
I found out the cause of death for Harold Sullivan. He died of kidney cancer.
"Ross's Boss":
That 2013 photo creeps me out because he looks like an older version of the worst person I have ever met in my entire life. A child molester named Richard Stubbs. ... Sorry to get off topic there... it's just that anything that reminds me of this guy pisses me off (he ripped me off for $10,000).
"Ross Sullivan": Well I'll be a Kowakian monkey-lizard's uncle! morf13 has indubitably busted Ross:
At RCC, he seemed isolated or withdrawn.
"anything connecting Ross Sullivan's initials?": by ever-anonymous, "Paul_Averly," Michael Morford's lead detective:
The bus bomb map has the word "Ross" printed near the upper left corner.
This is the town of Ross, but it always jumps out to me.
Just WOW! These are sure putting Robert Graysmith's research skills and integrity to shame! share
Last I checked, doing pretty well. Good website overall, too.
shareYes, people should read John Douglas and Mark Olshaker's, The Cases That Haunt Us. Douglas concludes that Graysmith's suspect, "Bob Hall Starr" meets much of the criteria that he, Douglas, former FBI special agent & unit chief—one of the first criminal profilers—would consider for a prime suspect.
Now, who was Bob Hall Starr again?
A man once described by San Francisco homicide detective Dave Toschi as “a very, very good suspect,” and who has been the subject of intense investigation by Robert Graysmith in his research, certainly fits the description I would put together: highly intelligent, IQ estimated around 135; spent much of his adult life living with his mother, with whom he had a difficult relationship at best; educated in chemistry and trained in codes; a hunter who once described man as the “most dangerous game” to a friend. And he could be placed in the different jurisdictions at the time each of the Zodiac crimes occurred.—John Douglas, The Cases That Haunt Us, Chapter Four: The Zodiac
P.S. (Feb. 20, 2017): R.I.P. IMDb Message Boards & FAILED suspect, Ross Sullivan share
Only, DNA, fingerprints, handwriting, and even eyewitness descriptions all cleared him. Oh well.
sharecleared him
Please do provide us all with the official Law Enforcement quote where Arthur Leigh Allen was "cleared," exonerated, etc.
Please do it before the IMDb forums close on February 20, 2017. share
John Douglas wrote about The Zodiac in 'The Cases That Haunt Us'
It's interesting that he believes that Cherri Jo Bates was a Zodiac victim,and that the crime scene indicated it was the killers first murder,due to the disorganised elements of the crime.
He also stated the killer would have either lived,or worked nearby,as is so often the case.
I don't think he had had ever heard of Ross Sullivan.
Douglas makes a good point, I reckon.
I've long been in two minds about the Bates murder in regards to the Zodiac case. If Sullivan were ever proven to be the Zodiac, it would certainly tie up lots of loose ends in regards to the murder of poor Cheri Jo. If it were Zodiac/Sullivan's first ever murder, then that certainly would explain why the crime scene and murder were so disorganised. The one thing that does give me pause for thought is a report about the murder I read on Jake Wark's site - it suggested that the Zodiac wasn't the killer of Bates, as the victim had put up such a violent struggle, that the killer must not have been a very large or strong man, which conflicts with what we know about both Zodiac and Sullivan.
By all accounts Cherri was quite athletic,she was fighting for her life afterall.Her attacker probably did'nt expect her to put up such a fight,and learnt from his mistakes.
shareWHich one was Ross Sullivan?, the movie was sooooo long I didn't even remember how the got to Leigh...
share