Dumb characters....Someone Please Explain Why... - Shutter (2004) Discussion

[–] rstephan-1 17 years ago

I came here to get an answer to that exact question (the second one about the rape photos).

reply

[–] vwn2 17 years ago

It's been several years since I watched this movie, but... here goes.

There could be many reasons why Tun didn't develop the film himself. It could be because there are too many pictures to develop, time constraints and such. A photo lab could have them developed quickly with machine instead of working on them one by one. In case you don't know, in Thailand, photographers are hired exclusively to take pictures of graduates. It's an important event. For each graduate, hundreds of pictures are taken, many rolls of film are used (not today though, it's digital age, pictures count now in thousands) How long will it take to develop all these pictures manually, I cannot imagine.

As for why the rapists want Tun to take pictures, they just want to blackmail her. If she ratted them out, the pictures will be distributed to the public. No woman would want the world to know she had been raped, don't you think.

I agree that Tun keeping them in his apartment is pretty dumb... and bad too. If he had any shed of good in his heart, he should at least destroy those photos.

reply

[–] Kimberwyn 17 years ago

No woman would want the world to know she had been raped, don't you think.

No, there are plenty of women who admit to it and talk openly about it. Look at Gabrielle Union, for example. There's nothing to be ashamed of anyways. I think many women would prefer to see whoever raped them behind bars.

Besides, she couldve gotten the police to confiscate the photos. And it's not like the newspaper is going to go and publish them or something, lol.

www.GirlsTalkinSmack.com

reply

[–] JasonAtDA 17 years ago

That doesn't quite work in Asian societies. In Asian culture, a woman getting raped before marriage brings shame to her virginity, her soul, and most importantly her family name. Many people will despise her and look at her as someone who's been physically abused and mentally ill. If she has a boyfriend, or fiance, the guy's family will probably object to their marriage had this news of rape gone public. Why? To avoid bringing "other woman's shame" into their family.

In traditional Asian cultures, keeping your family name respectable or "saving face" is far more important than individual's suffering. This is one of the reasons why there are far less reported cases of rape in Asian countries than in US or Europe. It's very unfortunate for those Asian female victims, but that's how they usually handle rape cases there...by keeping it discreet in order to avoid public embarrassment.

reply

[–] JaiL47 17 years ago

Your views on Asian culture are a bit outdated. While saving face is an undeniably important aspect of thai culture, they are civilized enough to recognize rape as a serious crime and not discourage reporting if you have been raped. The family would want to know if their daughter was raped, and their daughter's well being is far more important to them than saving face. The whole "tarnished virginity" issue is not so monumental anymore, seeing as very few women these days go into marriage as virgins. And since we're talking about Thailand, this is doubly true. Been to Thailand recently?

reply

[–] JasonAtDA 17 years ago

My reference about "saving face" refers to going PUBLIC about their rape experience. Of course, every family cares about the mental suffering of their own daughter and they do want the one(s) involved to be held responsible in accord of law. However, very few of them are willing to openly admit it and identify themselves as rape victims in public media unlike in U.S.

This is to explain how those men in Shutter, after taking pictures of the girl being sexually abused without her skirt, is going to keep her silent by threatening to distribute the photos as porn material out in public. To Western viewers, this logic doesn't seem rational because the photos are incriminating evidence and it's the last thing a rapist would wanna distribute.

reply

[–] STEVE-1559 17 years ago

One should add that Natre seems to come from a small, backwater kind of town, where perhaps things are more conservative and less cosmopolitan; hence, the old-fashioned concept of shame may have been a stronger motivating force with her.

I, too, figured that threatening her with exposure was the reason for taking the photos, but I have to admit that even that explanation does not make sense. If shame will prevent her from wanting knowledge of her rape to become public, then the photos are not really necessary. Taking them only provides evidence that could be used to convict the rapists.

The remake actually makes much more sense of this. The photos were deliberately staged to embarrass the victim (here called Megumi), with nothing obviously criminal shown on camera, just making it look like she got drunk and demaned herself at a part. Only afterwards did things progress to rape. This is about the only immprovement in the 2008 version.

READ MORE HERE: http://cinefantastiqueonline.com/2008/03/12/film-review-shutter-2004

reply

[–] mimosabuzz 13 years ago

I agree, although we are living in modern times, rape is still a very taboo subject in Asian countries. I was born and raised in China, but i think it's safe to say our views regarding this is probably not too different from those of southeast Asian countries, ie. Thailand. The public and families themselves do recognize that rape is not a fault of the victims and most people regard it as a terrible misfortune and heinous crime. However, the taboo is still there and families and victims experience a tremendous amount of shame and will unlikely speak publicly (even to friends) about the it.

As others have pointed out, one of the primary concerns of the family would be how desirable their daughter still is for marriage, and for a rape victim, it'd be VERY difficult for her to marry especially if the boy comes from a "good" family (socioeconomic wise).

reply

[–] whirling-darkness 16 years ago

I haven't been to Thailand, but I *have* lived with a Thai family in the US. Being a virgin before marriage is definitely a MUST (or at least keeping the facade that they are virgins). And these girls were not exactly back-water.

If their mom found out what they've been doing, she would be shamed and it would crush her. I can imagine it would be many times so for Natre and her family in the movie.

reply

[–] vicky_lc2001-1 16 years ago

I find your post very insulting! Yes, times have changed, people have changed as well. There are girls who practice premarital sex before marriage in Asia, as well as Thailand & the Philippines (w/c is where I'm from). You've probably encountered many of these types of girls, but to assume that we all act like them, is an insult to our integrity. You're actually the type of foreigner, Asian guys hate & we loathe, many feel like people like you only come here to prey on a girl's innocence. & there are many of your type around, especially recently.

We often find posts such as;

I'm going to Thailand or the Philippines on a business trip & will be staying for a year or so. How are the girls there? Are they particularly conservative? Are they open-minded to a foreigner's ways?

Whenever I get the urge to exercise, I lie down until it passes.

reply

[–] vicky_lc2001-1 14 years ago

His views are not that outdated, though the family would like to seek revenge & most likely will (if the family has a strong disposition or is powerful), it still would be very shameful for the girl if it gets out that she has been raped. Also, the girl clearly comes from the rurals, definitely more old-fashioned there. I've never been to Thailand, I'm from the Philippines but a woman's virginity or at least her lady-like & reserved reputation is very much important here. & my father lives in Thailand, & it seems they're very much like us. Are you native or a foreigner living in Thailand? Because we have the easier types of girls in the Philippines as well, they're usually the more Americanized types of girls, & still if word got out they were sluts, it would be embarrassing. I myself wondered how I'd ever handle a rape, though I'd definitely want to get justice done, I would rather it be handled privately whereas Westerners are very comfortable being very public about their sexuality, stranger or not.

OPEN YOUR EYES! dailymotion.com/video/xbi2hi_1993-chandler-molestation-extortion_news

reply

[–] synthninja-251-43212 11 years ago

I think it's funny that you get offended when someone generalises about Asians, then you go and finish your quite informative post with a sweeping generalisation about Westerners! Not all Westerners are very comfortable being very public about their sexuality as you say.

So to summarise, I'm offended and you're offended. We're all offended. I think there's a message there somewhere isn't there? :)

I had to kill Bob Morton because he made a mistake. Now it's time to erase that mistake

reply

[–] astro_5000 17 years ago

dude i haven't fully watched the film because i got bored, only film i liked was the original version of 'THE EYE' from hong kong films

this was abit dull although the idea is sound

but i will say this

1. what do you mean "no there are plenty of women who admit to it openly"

what are you blabbing about, most tv shows i see these days is women who NEVER or admit to it, unless some detective is trying to force information out to get the criminal

plus you make it sound like the women getting raped is proud of it, why would she be sooo open about it

watching alot of japanese hentai anime (adult anime) i can tell the pictures of a person i.e student getting violated then threatened it being given out to people at school or on the net, trust me, the girl would never live it down.

2. having your own black room probably means developing relevant pictures, not vast amount of pictures that may be expensive as the chemicals maybe too expensive to purchase

reply

[–] ebopper 16 years ago

Please watch the film before you comment on it!

http://www.MurderSale.com Check out this site, they sell actual murderabilia!

reply

[–] stephencray 16 years ago

As far as the second question, I hit the same cultural wall when i watched the Japanese film 'Freezer'. The heroin of that film finds herself in a very similar situation, only in that film there exists a video tape of the actual rape. 10 or so years after the rape the rapists reappear and invade her apartment and move in. They make it clear that if she calls the cops against them they'll let everyone know that she was raped.

Its one of the most frustrating movies I've ever seen, because she folds the instant they make this threat and becomes their slave. I spent the whole film screaming at the TV: "Just call the goddamn cops" but it never seems an option for her in her Japanese culture.

PAX...

reply

[–] JaiL47 16 years ago

By far the funniest thing I've heard is that guy a few posts back who thinks he is learned on Asian culture because he has watched animated pronography.

Priceless.

reply

[–] vicky_lc2001-1 16 years ago

Well, he answered the questions coherently & I actually agree with his post. I've watched the film btw.

Whenever I get the urge to exercise, I lie down until it passes.

reply

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] kali_demidarkness 13 years ago

As much as we'd like to believe that rape is handled correctly in the US, it most definitely is not. I was raped by my ex boyfriend when I went to his place to buy him some groceries. I went to the doctor later to make sure everything was ok and I told the nurse what happened. And because he didn't beat the crap out of me during the fact and I didn't have any bruises or cuts, she said, "Oh, that's just intercourse." Made me feel like crap. Thankfully, I had some good friends who explained some things to me about how society deals with the subject.

reply

[–] RomeoKnight 11 years ago

In my country women go to police telling they were raped just to have a revenge or hurt some man even when nothing happened. Women don't have any penalty on this but men can lose their reputation and job forever.

reply

[–] KwirkyTaz 17 years ago

It all depends on what kind of film you're using. For example cheap films like those from disposable cameras do not react well with the chemicals used to develop photos such as those done by a portrait photographer or black and white photographer. For each type of film there is various chemicals used to develop it and in this case they may not have matched up.

People make me want to eat my brain with a spork...

reply

[–] morpheuse 17 years ago

iirc, the one at the photo shop was in color, and the one he developed himself was black and white. Its easier to do print a black and white photo than to do a color print.

reply

[–] blueeyesentertainment 17 years ago

Hi, here's my opinion of your questions

- he takes them to shop to be developed for professional photographs, afterall they are of important events like graduations, weddings, etc. He only uses his own lab for his own personal projects.

- They wanted him to take the pics of the girl being raped, possibly to use it as blackmailing her not to grass on them, there using it as a tool to make sure she doesnt say anything to anyone.

reply

[–] huibie88 17 years ago

As for the photography: Quite some photographers like to develop some pictures themselves because you can add your own "flavor" to those pictures whereas those shops just develop with standard configuration/settings. You can see his little lab as a pre-digital era Photoshop. Nowadays many people just upload their pictures directly to some kind of photoprint site or whatever, but others edit them first using Photoshop or the like.

Another reason for a small lab would be to develop photography you'd rather not want someone else to see. (Such as some employee in a shop where they develop that stuff.)

reply

[–] teekayu8 17 years ago

For the second question, my point of view is that: by getting the picture of a girl being raped expose could also be like getting your private sex tape exposed. Thousands of people would recognize you from the thing and it sucks.

Or...another theory is just to humiliate and revenge on the girl to the extreme (getting shot by her boyfriend) because both of alcohol and annoyance that she resist.

But that's just my view.

Just think...what would Jesus say?

reply

[–] softspokenFinn 17 years ago

Being an amatuer photographer myself who has done developing in a darkroom, he takes his rolls to the lab because they were for the people involved in the graduation and didn't want to mess them up by doing so many himself. Also not to mention the time/cost effectiveness of it.

As for the second topic, someone savage enough to commit rape obviously gets off from acts of brutality. Documenting the act just further indulges them on violence.

reply

[–] kinkyfriend85-1 16 years ago

I think it's obvious that many girls would feel a huge shame if someone threatened to post the rape pictures online, and they would also feel like nobody can help her etc since in most countries the policemen can't even do so much to put the person behind bars. This is obvious even in western countries, at least in North Europe from where I come from. Some girls would however testify, but they are strong and not all of the rape victims are that strong. I have also seen some North European movie about this. For whoever says that most people wouldn't care whether he publishes the pictures and still testify... Well, I think those people have no clue about what it is about...

reply

[–] TitoVicandJoey 16 years ago

The girl was obviously shy and quiet. Exposing the photos would have definitely humiliated her and possibly shamed her family. Culture wise I could understand the perspective they were trying to take. If in their culture the audience could sympathize with why the girl did not tell and why the rapists knew she would not tell if they took compromising photos of her than the story works. In an American society it does not work, although still many women are raped and still do not come forth even with evidence. Its easy to say "you can Just do this" or "Just do that". Its a lot harder to summon the courage to action such things.
Maybe the guy was being lazy and figured he was gonna make 70$ on one roll, why not spend 10$ and get 3 rolls developed and take a nap, I dont know. Just looked like contracting to me. Thats called good business, not dumb.

Remember, use the magic twig wisely

reply

[–] thandon_s 16 years ago

Even Thai society nowadays has changed a lot from the past, but for the generation of about 25 years old or older, sex is still kinda secretive and extremely private thing.

Let alone being raped, even when girls willingly have sex with their boyfriend before marriage, they wouldn't normally say it out loud. For the majority of Thai girls, there are still guilt and shame buried deep within them when it comes to sex before marriage.

It's a serious crime and the photos can be a strong evidence to convict the rapists, yes. But it's understandable that the victims wouldn't want to suffer even more from the shame. And I don't think that's limited only to Asian girls.

It's maybe weird for American society, but that's why the world isn't just one country.

reply

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] dragonfirexz95 16 years ago

queenanime is right. My ex-girlfriend was raped and she never reported it to the cops, she never even really talked about it. She was one messed up chick, just bottled everything up inside. Very emotionally unstable.

reply

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] delicate-illusions 16 years ago

i use to live in hong kong, and there was an incident where a star, carina lau, got (raped or molested) during 1990 and those people took photos of it. here's what i got from wikipedia:

"In 1990, during the filming of Days of Being Wild, Lau was abducted for several hours, and topless photos of her were taken. At the time, local papers, through Reuters news agency, reported that Lau was kidnapped, though a police report was not filed....Lau never wanted to talk about what happened in those missing hours with anyone..."

the point is, she didnt want to talk to anyone about it because she would have to remember that traumatising incident and possibly go in detail about what they did to her. by not saying anything, she could lie to herself to make herself believe the incident never happened and perhaps one day, she will slowly forget about it.

i don't know if you're a guy or girl, but for me (im a girl), if someone took photos of me being raped and threatened to release the photos to the public, including my friends, family and other people in my life, i would rather not tell because what i will believe is that people would see and treat me differently although it might not be true.

but anyway, what i think is that, natre is more devastated that her 'boyfriend' would actually take photos of her getting raped. she probably doesn't even care about telling the police anymore.

reply

[–] bad151090 14 years ago

Srr, maybe this's a misunderstandin, but i always thought they did what they did to Natre mostly because Tun didnt love her anymore but he couldnt get rid of her.
So they raped then took pictures of her to threaten her, forced her to leave Tun.
But still, the measure s way too cruel... inhuman even.

Btw the pictures didnt show the rapists' faces. Just the girl.
And Tun was totally forgot bout it after Natre disappeared. He couldnt even find the pictures himself.

reply

[–] Jameron 12 years ago

"but anyway, what i think is that, natre is more devastated that her 'boyfriend' would actually take photos of her getting raped. she probably doesn't even care about telling the police anymore." - delicate-illusions

Absolutely, one hundred percent, totally agree with this. Tun watching the rape, and not helping her, would have destroyed Natre. Which is probably why she just killed herself, why carry on living when the one you want to share your life with has just stood by and watched you get raped, worse - he took pictures.

Never forget the human story.

.

- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

reply

[–] summer_782 14 years ago

So, we have heard from a photographer on the first question. Perhaps it would help if an actual rape victim stepped forward and explained more about the second question....

First, I would like to say that I am appalled at those who assume that the fear of these pictures coming out has anything to do with culture or a need to maintain the appearance of chastity. America has become a rather sexually open and free country, but these pictures would likely silence most American women just as quickly as it would silence a woman from anywhere else in the world.

Yes, Gabrielle Union spoke openly and publicly about being raped. That doesn't mean anything to an average woman. Gabrielle is a beautiful, famous woman who has hoards of people telling her every day how gorgeous she is. And there were no pictures.

Why is it so hard to imagine that a woman would be horrified at the idea of these pictures being made public. I shudder at the idea of there being pictures of my assault floating around out there somewhere. Can you imagine the embarrassment a woman would feel if her father, or child, or brother stumbled upon those pictures after they were released? Yeah, that's just what I would want. Good luck ever looking your neighbors in the eyes again.

It is hard enough for a woman to face the idea of telling strangers about this type of assault, but to have it documented and have to face the idea of everyone being able to actually SEE you being raped is beyond horrible. I can't imagine ANY woman being okay with these pictures being made public. EVER.

reply