MovieChat Forums > Alita: Battle Angel (2019) Discussion > Loved the movie, except for one thing

Loved the movie, except for one thing

posted 6 years ago by PrimeMinisterX (8708)
27 replies | jump to latest

I saw Alita last night and was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. I was kind of iffy on the trailers, but I was like, hey, I'll check it out anyway.

It was good. Like, REALLY good.

The action is great and always coherent (an underrated quality in today's action films), the visuals are amazing, the world-building is excellent, and Alita herself in much of the movie is photo-realistic or verging on photo-realistic and is just a very charming character.

But I have one complaint: Alita is overpowered. Yes, the movie puts a lot of effort into explaining why she's as strong as she is, but from a narrative perspective it robs the story of some tension when you feel like she's very rarely in any danger and is just going to blow through anyone who challenges her.

Overall though, a very good film.

[–] KevMill (243) 6 years ago

Well said.

[–] BrunoAntony (1198) 6 years ago

She starts the film as a torso and later gets her arms and legs torn off by another Cyborg.

She’s more powerful after he upgrade but isn’t shown as being invulnerable during Motorball.

[–] PrimeMinisterX (8708) 6 years ago

Even before she was upgraded, she easily kicks the shit out of a whole posse of other Hunter-Warriors. These are supposed to be some of the biggest badasses in Iron City and she just beats up about 15 of them at once like it's nothing.

And then once she gets upgraded, she's even stronger than she was before. During Motorball did you really feel like she was ever in much danger? I didn't. It felt more like she was hunting them rather than the other way around.

Yes, she did get sliced up by the one super-android guy that was about 15x her size but that is literally about the only time in the whole movie where she didn't seem in control.

[–] BrunoAntony (1198) 6 years ago

During Motorball did you really feel like she was ever in much danger?

You see her get sliced and thrown around. Ido even warns her that he can’t replace her body.

She easily kicks the shit of the Hunter-Warriors because she knows Panzer Kunst... it’s basically her superpower. It still doesn’t stop her getting wrecked by a bigger Cyborg.

She’s destroys everyone at the end because she has the super Cyborg body AND Zapan’s blade. That’s where the movie ends. If the film ever got a sequel, she’d be fighting tougher bad guys.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

Plus, to be fair, I personally never worry about the fates of core heroes. Does anyone ever truly fear for Batmans welfare, for example?

[–] PrimeMinisterX (8708) 6 years ago

You don't fear that Batman is going to die, but you know it's entirely possible that he's going to get fucked up and need rescuing and recuperation or something along those lines. That at least keeps you uncertain about exactly where the story is going to go next.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

Probably just fucked up once for the drama of it... a hero who gets fucked up more than once would be a punching bag and it would be part of the shtick, ala John Wick or Wolverine.

Batman will get sorta fucked up once early on in an origin story arc, or perhaps Iron Man 1, and then learn from that right away to "become" the hero finally. That's what Alita did, and this is her origin, the first of a series already done in manga.

A really big fuck up has to come much later, like Dark Knight Rises compared to Batman Begins. The end of the arc. I'm sure Alita faces much more difficulty in the ensuing storyline that would follow this one.

[–] PrimeMinisterX (8708) 6 years ago

I'm not saying the hero has to lose constantly, he/she at least needs to take some hits. It kind of reminds me of Steven Seagal movies back in the day. That dude's ego was so big that he almost wouldn't even allow himself to be shown taking a punch. He was invincible.

Anyway, like I said, I enjoyed the movie overall and think it will be a Top 10 entry for me this year. And I hope it does better than expected financially. We really need that sequel, because with the way this film ends, the story is not complete.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

Here's one extremely popular iconic superhero who completely defies that standard, and who is actually a CHALLENGE for writers to create feasible threats: Superman.

Alita is closer to that than she is to Batman solely because she is physically hyper capable.

I don't fully get the Superman appeal.... at least Alita is struggling to understand her body and her existence, unlike Superman who just knows he was born far more powerful than all the fragile humans he essentially rules over (luckily he's a hyper moral boy scout, because even a little conflict will push Superman toward gray areas he knows he can get away with, like that doctor played by Alec Baldwin decades ago ("I AM God!")

[–] PrimeMinisterX (8708) 6 years ago

Yeah, Superman is a totally boring character just because he is so strong.

You're right that she is very capable physically, but she's still just a physical machine. Machines can be destroyed.

That actually raises another issue about her power level: I didn't detect any real increase in her abilities after she got the new body. I chalk this up to the fact that she was already too strong before she got the URM body. Her kicking everyone in the bar's asses like she did would've made more sense if that scene had come AFTER she got the new body, rather than before.

I feel as if we were TOLD that the new body made her much stronger, but it wasn't really SHOWN to us because she was already so strong to begin with. There wasn't much higher she could climb in terms of her abilities.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

I'll have to pay close attention to that before and after, regarding her upgrade, when I go see the movie in just over two hours.

Another thing that makes her more interesting than Superman is her body being the weapon of her opposition. I presume there must be some commentary of "betraying her roots" (or a similar implication) from other machine people that come after her.

[–] PrimeMinisterX (8708) 6 years ago

Hmm, well she was an URM soldier 300 years ago, right?

I'd probably need to see the film again to piece all the backstory together, but I'm not sure I fully understand the modern-day connection between URM and Zalem and Nova.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

From the feedback I've been seeing, including yours, it sounds like I'll end up reading a wiki on the backstory of the Alita manga after I see the movie.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

So I paid attention to what we discussed, and it was pretty clear to me. In fact, I'm glad you prompted me to keep my eye on the "body" issue, since it was such a central part of Alita's personal growth... and Ito's.

Her first body was already superhuman of course, but here's the thing with electronics: You can put more and more power into an electric motor, and as long as it doesn't exceed the structural integrity of the motor's construction, it'll just exert more power. It's exactly like pumping more and more air through a hydraulic system: It'll cause more and more power output, the only thing that limits using more power is the threat of breakage, so with good enough tech, then all you need is the power.

Alita's power came from that power plant heart of hers... and it was always going to eventually require a body that can survive what she can do.

Plus, it was so touching how it happened, with Ito not only wanting to protect his "daughter," but also giving it to her as a sort of birthday present, an acknowledgement that she is becoming her own person and that he trusts her to use her power wisely. She was growing up.

Lastly, it was also Ito letting go of the last vestige of his first daughter, he was finally able to move on and devote himself to another girl who needed him, a soul even more lost than himself.

From the first scenes I already suspected it, but by the end I had no doubt: This is one of the best movies I've ever seen. I would not hesitate to nominate it for a Best Picture Oscar... and to avoid any problems with not knowing the field for 2019 Oscars: I would nominate Battle Angel for BP in probably ANY past year.

[–] SherlockJunior (67) 6 years ago

[spoiler] I kinda see what you mean, but for me this was also a bit cool to (just like in the manga and anime) have a kick ass protagonist who just destroys a lot of opponents in hyperkinetic fashion (like in a Rambo film, it is just fun) BUT having said that. The fight where she looses almost all her limbs, was very very tense. I was so hoping for her to get through, even though of course I knew she was going to be fine... [/spoiler]

[–] delmonte21 (27) 6 years ago

wrong. it's a shite movie.

[–] maximmm (3335) 6 years ago

Agreed - I thought it was all right -
Yeah - the complaint about her being overpowered sort of makes sense. Her body is top of the line, I get it - but the thing is, there were plenty of peeps with top of the line bodies during the war and they were all taken out without any issues, so now, the dude on top being fearful of one remaining drone.... that shit makes no sense. Besides, you'd think that in the hundred years since the war (or however many years) they developed tech which makes even the old top tech seem like junk, but apparently they didn't - in fact, it seems like their tech got more inferior, which makes no sense.

[–] PrimeMinisterX (8708) 6 years ago

Regarding the fact that the current tech seems inferior to past tech, I'm pretty sure it was a case where the knowledge was lost in all the destruction of the war.

It does seem unlikely that, in the modern age, we would just lose knowledge like that but it's a trope that is used in many post-apocalyptic films. Society regresses to a more primitive state in the aftermath.

[–] filmklassik (51) 6 years ago

You’re describing the problem I’ve had with most of the movie heroes of the last fifteen years. Alita is just the most recent example. Jason Bourne doesn’t encounter anyone who can really give him a fight. He’s tougher than everybody. And so is McCall in The Equalizer.

And these sorts of overpowered heroes weren’t as much of a “thing” 25 and 30 years ago.

For example, Michael Biehn and Linda Hamilton were greatly overmatched by Ah-nold in the first Terminator movie, and Ah-nold himself was overmatched by the T-1000 in the sequel.

Which made both movies more suspenseful, and their protagonists more relatable.

In both of those movies, the good guys really had to sweat the victory. Ditto Rocky Balboa in the Rocky franchise.

And remember James Bond’s fight to the death against the far more powerful Oddjob in Goldfinger? Great stuff.

But today’s overpowered heroes are clearly filling some sort of weird psychic need in the culture. The public now WANTS its heroes to never encounter a foe who is tougher, faster and stronger than they are. Thus, no more T-1000’s. No more Clubber Langs. And no more Oddjobs.

And I’ll be damned if I know why.

[–] maximmm (3335) 6 years ago

Yeah - but what about commando?

[–] filmklassik (51) 6 years ago

Yup. And what about all of Steven Seagal’s crapfests, where he ALWAYS played the indestructible hero? And let’s not forget Clint Eastwood in Pale Rider, where he plays an invincible spectre riding around in the old west.

I mean, of COURSE this type of hero existed before, but never in such abundance.

Today, I see fewer heroes being overmatched in the movies. That is, I see fewer heroes going up against antagonists who are just plain tougher and stronger and better at fighting than they are.

It is happening less and less now.

And it’s weird.

[–] actionkamen (23176) 6 years ago

Hmm.. interesting. In Asian culture, having superpowered invincible protagonists has always been a staple. Have you ever seen Bruce Lee or Jet Li movies? Most of their movies were all about super skilled kungfu masters that could easily overcome many many opponents, even larger and stronger ones (which is totally nonsense in real martial arts.)

One of Jet Li's most succesful film franchise was Once Upon a Time in China series in which the main hero never gotten even one hit. You heard that right! NOT EVEN ONE HIT. NEVER. No matter how crazy skilled his opponents were, they can't even touch him. Not by a long shot. In the entire movie! No, in the entire 6 movies! Talk about being slightly overpowered. Our beloved Mary Sue Rey has nothing on him. In fact, a swordman that knows no equal is already a trope since who knows when.

The concept of "lonely warrior" which is a warrior so skilled and superior he became tremendously lonely because nobody can give him even a little bit of challenge, also very popular in wuxia stories.

Asians have always loved the idea of "God-Emperor." You know, a guy who is extremely overpowered, and then multiply that 10,000x into absurd levels. Basically, Dragon Ball Z.

This makes me wonder... Is this trend of making such particular characterization of modern protagonists / superheroes was because China being a totally massive movie market, especially for these big-budgeted spectacle action movies?

[–] filmklassik (51) 6 years ago

Good question, but I’m pretty sure this trend predates the burgeoning Chinese market by 4 or 5 years. So I think it’s something Western audiences are craving now also.

Not me, though. I much prefer heroes who are overmatched occasionally and have to really sweat the victory. Makes it more relatable.

[–] Octo (216) 6 years ago

I can't stand the old "trade punches with the bad guy for 10 minutes and the hero almost loses until he finds his heart and suddenly gets superior" shtick.
I very much prefer untouchables because it's just cool. I also enjoy bad guys with this quality.
But the way they are superior matters. Superman can tank just about any punishment, and that can be boring.
Alita was untouchable because she is super quick and agile, that's exciting.

[–] Alex (1503) 6 years ago

Have you seen "Blood and Bone" with Michael Jai White? He just walks thru the movie like it's a video game and I frigging loved it. LOL.

[–] Octo (216) 6 years ago

I have indeed. As I was writing my previous post I thought about giving a few examples,
and Blood and bone was the first thing that came to mind.

[–] Bowilly (171) 6 years ago

I don’t think I would describe Alita as being overpowered even though she possesses super human abilities. Throughout the story we are constantly being reminded of her humanity. Her dependency on others could be considered a weakness which is not a bad thing. I agree this is a very good film, Alita is an amazing character.