"You guys are too funny. I'm British. I'm White. I'm not religious in any way."
Well, I already knew you were British, but that don't mean a thing. Here's why: You must think that if someone is British they can't be a terrorist. Well, what about your SHOE BOMBER, real bright guy, btw. Same thing with you being white, so what! As far as religion goes, I don't care if you are or not, but the radicals might, even though I don't call what they do to be religious. I say that because God is not happy that they are killing people the way they are.
"Which country has attacked, invaded or bombed more than any other since WW2 (I think the count is about 22 now). Oh yes, the US."
Yeah, let's see a list. We are not the only country that has warred on another since WWII. Go to Africa and tell me there has been a moments peace there. How about Latin America. Also, there is with exception of one time that the U.S. military went into action WITH the U.N. behind it, and that would include your country in that group, which had it's own non-U.N. backed action.
"Which country trained and armed most of the terrorists now operating around the world. Oh, hold on, it's the US."
Considering that most rank and file terrorists are between the ages of teenager to maybe mid-twenties, I think you would be wrong on this one. The terrorists that are now operating in Iraq and South Asia were trained in camps there, the few camps here are for home grown wackos. That is not to say that I think there were no Al-Quida or Tali-Ban trained here, it is just not any more and there were not that many to begin with.
"Which country should just keep itself to itself and stop trying to impost its will on the rest of the world? Oh yes, it's the US again."
OK, then how about we start with North Korea and Iran, how about we just let them go about their nuclear activities. And then they start hitting the countries around them with missles or planted bombs! Who is gonna get the blame for NOT doing anything to stop it? Is that what you REALLY want?
"You are rapidly becoming despised by many genuinely peace loving people around the globe, not just those you think hate you. If you'd just mind you own business from time to time people would think so much more of you, but you seem to feel the need to impose your way of life on everyone whether they want it or not."
The rest of the world is "genuinely peace loving", PLEASE!, SOMEBODY GIVE ME A BARF BAG! The list goes on and on of people and places who are fighting to the death because they disagree about something (and I'm not talking about Iraq or even in the U.S. ABOUT Iraq). I'm talking about the opperssion of freedom by the Chinese government of it's own people, or the Chinese government not freeing the people of Tibet, the Indians and Pakistanis never stop fighting, there is always some country being over thrown in the Caribean, or South America, I said about Africa above, there is an exploding neo-Nazi movement in Germany, Chechens in what used to be southern Russia, native Indians in southern Mexico, do I have to go on. So don't tell me that the only "genuinely peace loving" peoples are in other countries. There is conflict the world over! Conflict that the U.S. has nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with 100%. The biggest joke of all is that some of these countries criticize the U.S. for the Iraq action. You seem to be showing anger when you say we need to impose the American way of life, you say it two times. Is that something you have a problem with? Weather you like it or not, the American way of life just starts on it own, it is not something that is advertised or sold, and also people in other countries seem to WANT to have the American way of life. There are some places in the world you can go to and it looks like Any Town, U.S.A., so you tell me, is that imposing or is that the people of that area emulating life in the U.S.
"The film sucked. The fact that Hollywood (or whoever) had to resort to terrorism to make it work was pathetic."
I did not say a thing about the movie, for or against. I watched it, I did not think anything about it beyond it being a movie. Do I think that hole would have made the ship tip over like that? No, a bigger hole maybe could have. Do I wish they had kept the freak wave doing it? Yes, and I do think that could happen contrary to what some posters here have said. It almost did happen earlier this year, a cruise ship with about two thousand college students on a semester at sea program almost went over just like the movie and it was caught on a video camera.
Now, you see what is funny is people like you who think that radical Islamists don't want to kill you! If you have not noticed they already killed many innocent people, some of whom may have had beliefs like that of their killers. If you cannot prove that you are a true believer of Islam, with gun in hand and an explosive pack strapped to your chest, ready to run into an elementary school and be willing to pull the trigger or the pin, they don't want you alive...PERIOD! When will people like you get that through your head! There is no dealing with these people! I can't believe that the next step people are going to say that we should take is starting peace talks in probably Paris or Berlin!
They want Islam to be WORLDWIDE!
If the U.S. is forced to give a timeline right now, and should that force the U.S. to pull out of Iraq, the country could become overrun by the radical movement and the government could fall. If the current government were to fall and Iraq were to become a hardline Islamic country, what country do you think their new Tali-Ban army will invade or attack. My top three would be: 1.Saudi Arabia 2.Jordan 3.Israel
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andy-486
19 years ago
Thank you, you have soooo just proved my points.
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red13rocks69
19 years ago
"Thank you, you have soooo just proved my points."
THAT is your response!
The only thing that IS PROVEN is that you are TOO afraid to continue to debate this issue, so you come up with that LAMEASS response! If you don't want to talk about this like an adult, just say so, but no you pull the old "I'm taking my ball and going home" act! Real mature! I hope you NEVER make it in politics, because if you think that is the way to behave on the world stage, you are sadly mistaken!
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chouse1020
19 years ago
Sorry redrocks... you've swallowed what they wanted you to...
Please please don't dare speak for or against the US until you research history. Although most of those '22' or however many times we've been involved in foreign wars, more of them were fought over material resources than 'removing bad guys from power'. Not that Falkland Islands were the UKs brightest day either.
The point is basically this... if you focus on the stupid error of the past and not try to focus on avoiding making similar mistakes NOW, you're still swallowing...
Now SPIT! :P
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red13rocks69
19 years ago
First of all, DON'T EVEN TRY to tell me what to say or not to say, because guess what I'm going to say IT anyway!
As far as research goes, you name one instance in those "22" when material resources were fought over where the U.S. was the aggressor, until then my point is proven that we were removing "bad leaders from office". And it has to be an actual war that the U.S. sent troops to fight in. You can't say the current Iraq war either, because it has not been proven it was for anything other than searching for WMD and removing Saddam from power.
NO, I will not spit or swallow for you but you can go CRAM IT!
And I think you know where to put it!
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chouse1020
19 years ago
lmfao...
You can't see with your eyes closed.
Why do you think we named leaders as 'bad' if not for the simple fact that they weren't our puppet dictators. They powers that be wanted a bigger chunk of the profits, and so wars were staged.
You need to actually learn a bit about how war works. Your blissfully simplistic (propagandized) outlook is pretty sad, as it really shows just how little you do understand our world.
As an American it embarrasses me that people like you blurt out such nonsense on behalf of 'us'. Read a bit before you go giving people that most Americans think like you. Most don't by the way...
As far as WMD... what part about Director of CIA, Press Secretary and a WHOLE lot of mid level staffers disappearing in a hurry don't you get... They were the 'fall guys' to take the blame so it was diverted away from our President, who did indeed claim to have complete and incontroverible evidence that Saddam had WMDs. Apparently his 'complete evidence' was based on faulty assumptions and absolutely no hard intel...
Wake up please...
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red13rocks69
19 years ago
I issue you a challenge to try to dis-prove what I posted and ALL that you can come back with is a BUNCH OF B.S. OPINION FROM YOUR small little MIND!
I'll try again, "What war was "staged"! Again, don't tell me Iraq. You used that one last time, even though I dis-qualifed it.
I'am not saying that we have never placed a "puppet dictator" into power, because I even have a relative who may have been involved in such an "operation". But you are wrong when you say we "staged" wars to do this, at least not any that American troops went into fighting.
As far as who knows war, unless someone has been in war they cannot say they know war. I have not been in war, I have not been in the service and I can't anyway. You could say that you served and were in war, you could also be lying about it, though. That is your problem, not mine!
I will always STAND UP for this country when she gets pushed down, even when it is other Americans doing the pushing. Just because there are a few bad apples in the bushel, meaning bad politicans or soldiers who do bad things, does not mean that the whole country is bad. There are bad policmen out there too, does that mean a whole department is bad? If you need to think very hard about that one, you are the one that is sad.
This is why I do ALL I can to show support for my country! I Respect, Honor, and Remember those who serve and those who gave ALL they had to give.
What do you do? Well, you seem to be spitting on them and on their memory!
It is YOU who should wake up! You should also be ashamed of yourself!
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chouse1020
19 years ago
How can you issue a challenge when your head is so far up your ass you must be breathing pure methane?
Don't dare challenge me when you didn't respond to a single truth I listed.
Did you go research what I recommended? No, of course not... you simply would not have had time to even BEGIN to...
Sit and spin you brainwashed lapdog. When martial law comes... we warned you!
You have ZERO clue how power and control works... instead of being such a whiny little punk, why don't you actually listen to the words that we don't need to share with you - but even a jackass should have the chance to open their eyes.
They lose their control over you the instant you realize what they're really up to... how about opening em up?
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red13rocks69
19 years ago
OK, let's start in the gutter.
"How can you issue a challenge when your head is so far up your ass you must be breathing pure methane?"
But considering it IS where you live, its alright.
"Don't dare challenge me when you didn't respond to a single truth I listed."
Yeah, what "single" truth is it that you listed? Oh wait, was it the "22" that the U.S. has supposedely invaded! Well, first it was NOT you that even brought up the "22", but don't worry because that poster was wrong too. As far as demanding that I don't challenge you, uh you KNOW what you can do with that!
"Did you go research what I recommended? No, of course not... you simply would not have had time to even BEGIN to..."
Again, what are you talking about? I think you are just saying that you recommended research, just so you can accuse me of not having done it. Also, you don't know what I could have done by now! You can take that comment and BLOW IT OUT YEER ASS!
"Sit and spin you brainwashed lapdog. When martial law comes... we warned you!"
If I'm brainwashed one way, YOU are just brainwashed the other way! Now, the second part of this comment makes me really laugh. When martial law does come, and don't kid yourself folkes IT WILL, do you really think that you, a freako-peace loving non-war fighting hippie like you is gonna be left ALIVE! Here is your answer: NO, because it is people like you that will be taken out and SHOT THROUGH THE HEAD! People like me WILL BE ALIVE because I have guns in my home, that are ready to be used when I need them to defend myself and my family. When things get to that point you CAN'T rely on soneone else to do that job for you, you WILL just have to do it yourself!
"You have ZERO clue how power and control works... instead of being such a whiny little punk, why don't you actually listen to the words that we don't need to share with you - but even a jackass should have the chance to open their eyes."
Here is another comment that just does not make any sense at all. Again, you DON'T know what I know or don't know. I know this forum barely dents the surface of things I do know, which maybe you know also. Do not try to claim higher intelligence over me, because you don't know me NOT because I'm going to say I'm smarter than you because I don't know you. Learn the definition of "whiny" before you use it, OK. I'm not the one that is "whiny" that is people like you who go on and on about things like "We should not be in this war" and "This war is illegal" ok, enough already we know where you stand on the war. When you repeat it over and over that is being "whiny"! As far as who is a "punk" it's not me, I'm a 41 y/o single male, you are probably a 14 y/o SNOT-NOSED PUNK who thinks he knows all about the world already. The last part of your comment is just boring--you use that same knid of line EVERYTIME-telling people to open their eyes. Think of something original next time.
"They lose their control over you the instant you realize what they're really up to... how about opening em up?"
Again, another varition of the same line, it just makes me: YAWN!
This is going to be my last post to you because I have BETTER things to do than play on a website forum with 14 y/o punks who think they know all.
Since you are a 14 y/o punk--GET BACK TO SCHOOL before you get caught by the traunt officer, oh wait it is DEEM-O-CRAT parents like yours who had that stopped because the ACLU said it was/is against a persons civil liberties to tell them they should be in school! I guess it is OK then.
THAT'S ALL! I'M OUT! LATER!
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chouse1020
19 years ago
LMFAO!
Assumption if the mother of ignorance, and you're full of both apparently. Such a shame...
As I said, you can't 'challenge' somebody when you don't even take enough time and begin to research my assertions, that indeed have been well documented in a variety of formats.
It's not up to me to prove a damn thing to you, however it was really nice that I pointed you in a direction to look - that you clearly haven't looked in. If you even attempted to look in that direction, you would see the simple truth of what I mentioned. You're the victim of a propaganda war...
As far as "22", why do you think I quoted it? Because of the simple fact that it was the previous poster's number... I'm not sure exactly how many invasions, attacks and minor skirmishes we've had on top of the well known regional wars we've been involved in, which is why I left it as a quoted "22" and not the bare number. The exact number isn't the point - however looking at the motivations of WHY we attacked each and every one of these places is required.
The publicly announced reason hardly ever comes close to fully describing WHY we went in to X minor nation to topple their government. Sure, it's a contributing factor, but they of course aren't willing to be honest and admit that they felt it was necessary to go in to help keep the global commodity price of oil stable... so that the economy would be more stable; the opinion polls would suffer if more people understood why Bush I went into Kuwait. Honesty has been forgotten among most of the elites... they're too worried about not being implicated in anything to actually think about what the _right_ thing to do is.
As far as my "go research it" comment and your apparent denial that there's anything you aren't already aware of... Really, there's a lot you don't seem to know about the dynamic of the Palestine/Israel struggle. Of course people who think they need to be loyal to a party are taught not to think for themselves, or to be scholarly on anything that's not an official plank of the party. And by the way, your reply was way too fast, and by the tact of it was quite visible that you HADN'T bothered to even consider researching the facts I pointed out.
As far as blowing it out ass, you're the one who feels the need to lie - if you'd actually bothered to research it even a little bit you would've probably deleted your posts here so people wouldn't have an idea how ignorant you are about this subject. Keep in mind ignorance doesn't equal stupidity... one can be corrected while the other you're stuck with. Please, correct yours...
"If I'm brainwashed one way, YOU are just brainwashed the other way!"
Not in any way. I just love the assumption of people who have been brainwashed into thinking they must be tied at the hips to one political party or another... people who are die-hard members of either party just automatically assume anybody who differs in opinion from them on ANY matter must automatically be a card carrying member of the opposite party.
It's not the case by the way.
Fact is, when I was in college I used to be quite involved with the people who you're beholden to... although that never stopped me from befriending or partying it up with the donkeys. During that period I had the opportunity to briefly see one President, shake one Vice-President's hand, to get to know 4 US Senators on a first name basis (one who is still in office), to get the same with a current Governor (when he was a lowly state rep), as well as a whole *beep* of US Representatives and many state Senators and Reps. That's not even getting into the stories I could tell you about partying it up with a certain Senator's PR Director... man that guy could DRINK... or the various other billionaires and people of influence I met at various functions.
Indeed one time I shocked the hell out of a current US Senator and his staff members in a way they really didn't want to be shocked in. I had met him several times previously and he was the mayor of a large city then, and he had notoriously crooked teeth. The minute I saw him walk into the function was less than a week after he had gotten braces installed, and I immediately asked him "so... Governor or Senator?". He did more than flinch... He asked me to not pass on the comment until after he made an announcement, which he did later that year. He was running for Governor then... what a surprise. He's a Senator now though.
That group was a little too uptight for the most part back then but they still were at their core good people who wouldn't allow anything seriously bad to happen. After this period though, the neo-Con group came in and took over the GOP, and the party is nothing like it used to be. We commit war crimes and allow genocide and act as if the enemy deserves it.
The President takes a report on global warming that was put together by the brightest scientific minds in the field, and casually dismisses it as "I don't agree with it"!
Why do you feel the need to be so beholden to the people who are so willing to betray you so badly, if the need arises?
Of course the other side isn't much better, but where they do stupid things trying to do good things for the whole of the people, all the GOP does these days is protect the rich from the 'poor hordes'. If instead of having that pathetic attitude they distributed the top 1% just even a tiny amount, there wouldn't be much poverty or anything. But of course many of the GOPers are at their cores xenophobic regigious racists... so its easier to pretend these problems don't exist, rather than try to fix them.
Neither 'side' is good, as they're both too worried about patting themselves on the back and not actually spending any time working on the real problems our society and world are facing. They both have far too many faults to pledge complete loyalty to... however certain politicians from both parties do indeed have some good merits, so you can't automatically judge somebody based on their affiliation but rather on their beliefs.
As far as your comment on guns... *laugh* You're going to be one of the first ones they go after if/when Martial Law is declared... as you're going to be labelled 'terrorist' in a hurry, and your assertions of being a 'patriot' won't matter to the soldiers who see you aiming a weapon at them. They shoot first and ask questions later when Martial Law occurs. Hope you don't mind being buried with a closed casket... they go for the head you know.
"Here is another comment that just does not make any sense at all."
Actually it makes a lot of sense... Sorry, but you've been trapped hook, line and sinker by the GOP. The fact that you didn't even do a quick Google search on the Mossad assasinations of the Palestinian tribal leadership is exactly what led to my comment. You chose not to look, because they've taught you to not look for anything that they don't hand you on a platter themselves.
You seem to be the type that still believes in their mind that Osama bin Laden was never a CIA operative, when it's been quite conclusively proven that he was. You can claim to be in your 40s however your utterly brief and nonsensical replies betrays your clear deception. I myself am in my 30s, and I'm sure your _dad_ is 41, but to try and claim that you are is just silly. 41 year olds don't talk in such absolutes very often, although I suppose you could just be a rather brainwashed 41 year old.
If you even begin to think you're talking to a 14 year old then you must be in the smartest family in the world... I was really smart and well spoken as a teen, but no 14 year old has the confidence behind their words that somebody who has had years to review the 'facts' from all sides of the varioud arguments. Since people on here sometimes try to cover up for their own inadequacies by 'turning the tables' you leave me with the very clear impression that you're exactly 14 years old, and even more to the point that you're sick and tired of being treated like a kid. You will be treated like a kid regardless of age when you aren't willing to discuss something, and reply with ignorant oneliners like your prior posts and even this one I'm replying to now. If you're actually 41, then please do yourself a favor and get a clue... your party is not what it was when good ole Ronnie was in office. They've sold their souls since then...
"oh wait it is DEEM-O-CRAT parents like yours"
LMAO... oh man, if only you knew... Let's just say, that's the LAST thing they are. And it's the last thing I am too...
I don't believe the two main political parties are doing anybody any good these days... so I vote for candidates, but never again will vote based on party affiliation.
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keisl
19 years ago
PLEASE tell me what I'm supposed to research to prove your point. I'm not sure what you think I should look up, or where to start. I know I've seen a lot of unsubstantiated (sometimes later disproved) accusations against our soldiers. Why don't we hear anything about the good our troops are doing? Every once in a while I hear something, but usually just first hand news from friends who are there. I don't know what we were doing shortly before 9/11 - hadn't we been out of the middle east several years by then? We certainly didn't go into Iraq for the oil, anyone who believes that hasn't really looked at this. I do know that Saddam needed to be taken out, and I'm glad he was. Don't tell me he didn't have weapons of mass distruction, when I was in the Army, they showed us video of Saddam using 'weapons of mass destruction' on his own citizens - he liked to document everything you know - which makes it quite surprising that there were no records showing that the things had been destroyed. So where did they go? I don't know, maybe they were destroyed, but believe it or not, I'm one of about 2 people who believe it is likely they were either moved to another country, or hidden somewhere (wouldn't be too hard to do). But NOBODY ever takes a word I have seriously. I remember being an E3 sitting with several officers (including a colonel) and quietly telling them, in response to how Bush was a shoe in for re-election - "No, I don't think so, Americans have extremely short memories, and none of this will matter at all." This was at the height of his popularity (Desert Storm - not this round). Nice to see Americans memories are still as short as they ever were. I'm all for forgiving people, but they should be sorry first. I'm all for giving chances, but not with human life. I'm all for keeping to ourselves, if for a moment, others would leave us alone (oh, and don't ask for help either). It would be nice if so many foreigners didn't invade our country. I can't for the life of me understand why they want to come here, after all, this country sucks... doesn't it? I hear it every day.
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chouse1020
19 years ago
"PLEASE tell me what I'm supposed to research to prove your point."
Umm, I wasn't exactly debating you, so I'm not quite sure what your point in jumping in on the tail of a conversation is. Unless that is you're the same person but you're jumping around from sock puppet to another... I note this is your VERY first post, so it's more than a little bit odd that you'd choose thise particular place to start posting.
Far more than just a little bit odd.
The discussion here and in a different thread I was stalked into dealt a lot with the more hidden nature of the powers that be, and why some things are going down the way they are.
My real belief for why we're there has partially to do with the oil, but at least as much to do with the fact that the Middle East is essentially the only region of the world that uses a different banking system than the US and the rest of the world do. Power comes with money... so, you do the math why we'd want to change governments in that region. It's not the first time we've tried by the way. We currently have strong influence on several of the nations in the region, but not enough apparently...
As far as WMD - what Saddam originally had was only there because we wanted him to have. You must be forgetting certain old alliances - certain dirty deeds we could not do ourselves directly were often hired out to 'freedom fighters' but also occasionally to entire nations. Wars, you see, are often fought to change leaders and economic alliances - but also sometimes to just test out new weaponry (see how well it works in real action), especially weaponry that "we" couldn't get away with testing in any sort of large deployment. If the world thinks, however, that Saddam decided to toss some VX at some Kurds - most people don't even consider thinking about why the hell the US would have ever given him that to begin with, even if he WAS our ally at the very time when Iran had rebuffed and deposed our own 'friendly dictator', the Shah in favor of their Ayatollahs.
Why Saddam is protesting his innocence so vehemently is likely due to some hidden motivations that will never publicly see the light of day. The fact that he thought he was still on 'the payroll' - and that he was told he would be provided a nice quiet place to live out the rest of his life in luxury. After all, as far as he was concerned, he had done everything he was asked to do...
Osama was on the payroll once, so was Saddam, and so likely were several of the other big names we repeatedly are being told on 'the news' as the enemies. That's a good place to start your research... look into the whole clusterfuc|< known as Iran/Contra and how Osama tied in with the Mujahadeen and the Afghan/Soviet conflict. And how our current scapegoat of the decade Saddam ever got his hands on VX in the first place... oh yeah, the Iran/Iraq war that started so soon after the Iranians expelled the US and the puppet dictator.
I'm a patriotic American, and it's a shame that some of our leaders aren't. They're just after the money. :<
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johndoe3815
19 years ago
red13rocks69 I just wanted to tell you there is another person here who has similiar feelings as yourself. I am so tired of other countries and other americans putting down the US. Most of these people do it without knowing the true facts and only listen to thier own version of propaganda. Trust me you can argue until you are blue in the face but unless your view resembles thiers you will never win with them. Just know that you yourself and others who think the same way are right and go on your way. Just something to point out though for thoughs non believers, I know a gentleman who came from Iraq who personally believes that there is WMD in Iraq still to this date. We just havent found them. Try looking for something like this in a middle of a dessert. Also remember the US has found bunkers where evidence of biological weapons were present at one time.
As for the movie I guess I would have to disagree with most here. I found it enjoyable and entertaining. Is it possible for a ship to capsize like this in real life? Who knows, personally I dont care, my god it's just a movie for crying out loud. Was it better then the original? To tell you the truth I liked them both, I just made a decision that I would think of this version as a seperate story with a similiar title, rather then a remake. When you do this the movie actually seems better. I mean if you are going to judge it by comparring it to the original then you already gave it an unfair advantage, because it is nothing like the original. In my eyes it is its own seperate and unique movie. I would like to hear from others that enjoyed this film for what it was.
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Wyoming
19 years ago
Um... at the risk of WAY rekindling the hostilities here... I'd like to put my two cents' in if it's okay. First off, I am American, and proud to be one. Secondly, there are just as many points of view here as there are anywhere else on the planet, so don't let yourself get caught up in the generalizing. That said, I do have to agree with 3/4 of what was said regarding US world policy. We are not an international police force, so we should stay home. Plain and simple. Yes, we have given aid and comfort to countries all over the world, but, once again, that is not our job. We should just stay home. And, yes, we did in fact give/sell weapons to folks who are now considered our enemies. Tough luck. Our fault. We should have stayed home. And, as for imposing our will on countries all over the world, that just goes along with the fact that we are not, never could be, and were never meant to be, an international police force. We have troops stationed all over the world that shouldn't be there, guys and girls that could just as well be home keeping our own home-front secure. Yes, there are many conflicts that go on all around us that we don't have a hand in, but there are just as many - if not more - that we have gotten ourselves involved in... just because we can. Don't get me wrong, I love my country, it's just some of the people that get a little annoying every now and then.
Never saw the movie, just tuned into this conversation and found it very amusing. Couldn't resist.
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