MovieChat Forums > The Cave (2005) Discussion > Did you think this was trying to tie int...

Did you think this was trying to tie into the vampire legends?


Takes place in the Carpathian mountains. A bite infects the victim.
changes into a bat-like creature. Remains in the dark away from the
sunlight? This caused heated discussion within my family, was wondering
what other people thought.

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[deleted]

Yes. If you have the dvd, pause at the "mosaic" scene, wherein M. Iures (Dr. Nicholae)explains the "folktale" of the Knights Templar doing epic battle with the "flying creatures"=DEMONS he calls them, with a distinct wary closing of the eyes. It's in the details of the mosiac. Also, the whole thing is foreshadowed in the opening scene...the "mercs" are climbing the hill, to the church, when the camera pauses while going over a skull with fangs. Add that to the final scene..she's merely "scratched" (R forearm)and comments about the creature tring to get out, I would venture that the intent was there (OVERT hints at adapability). Also, add the still raging debate over "vampirism" being genetic-it's caused by and/or causes crazy DNA and I would say the writer was leaving the door open for later (even if you deleted the "red eye" portion of the last scene and took out the dialogue re: "trying to get out"). Of note, the Knights Templar were Red-Cross Knights, out to expunge the "Muslim hordes" (read: EVIL), the eternal fight of GO(good)D-vs-D(evil)EVIL. Dontcha' LUV the spelling fun? If you really want to read more into it-consider this a statement re: Christianity-v-Islam (never mind the obvious flaws-the people who would see it and support it are the ones who aren't bright enough to rip the theory asunder). Hx lesson: Romania ("Decia/Dacia") was under Seljuk/Ottoman rule for some time, especially in the area now called "Transylvania" (land on the other side of the forest)-I believe this was AFTER Rome deserted her outpost (Rome-Romania, get it?) Also of note, the Romanian Orthodox church is the only "Orthodox" religion(adheres to the "Eastern" traditions, answers to Constantinople ie.: GREEK origins)to utilize a Romance-based language in its liturgy; about 60% of Romanian is based on Vulgar Latin. Mugs and Fishes, Beezelbubba666

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[deleted]

About your first commnet, obviously you didn't read the ENTIRE stmt. I never said Eastern Orthodox Christianity was the only orthodox religion. I stated "Romanian Orthodox religion was the only orthodox christian religion (based in the Greek tradition) that utilizes a Latin-based language in it's Greek based liturgy". Paraphrased in this post, because you seemed to have missed half of a rather long sentence. I myself made no mention of "especially Transylvania", and as for what makes "Transylvania so special" (nver mind that you sound either defnesive or like you spent unhappy time there)...America has only been a country for less than 300 years. There are outbuildings in Transylvania (all of Romania, actually) that are 1000 years older than anything on this side of the Atlantic. 'though it may have been a bad movie, it does in no way detract from what the writers were OBVIOUSLY alluding to. As for someone who was "surrounded by them" I am guessing you learned very little, though I could be mistaken. You sound rather defensive...re: "What do you know about them" comment. BTW, if I'm not mistaken, ALL cultures of the world have legends regarding the undead. It's based on a primal human fear of the unknown and the "Undiscovered Country". As for Lulu's comment re: "they should be hot"...that is a Hollywood contrivance, nothing like the originals. Beginning with "Penny Dreadfuls", people, especially prior to the Enlightenment, were a rather sorry lot. Death was not only the great equalizer, but became a respite from the cares of the day (when average life-expectancy might only be 30 MISERABLE, HUNGRY, COLD, DISEASE-INFESTED yrs). It didn't take long for authors and publishers to realize they could sell more copy if they romanticized (there's that Latin again) the idea of death, in all its forms.
Was it a bad movie, sure. Did it bring much needed employment, foreign investment, and a large crew (with money to spend)to a country that could probably use the cash...Yes. Did it bring noteriety (thru the dvd extras) to a country with over 20,000 registered caves...Yes (with the hpoe of futere tourist dollars). Did it play upon the already existant legends to accomplish these ends...Yes. So, is it a bad movie...sure. Is it more than the sum of its parts...I certainly hope so. Tugs and cliches, beezel

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Although I follow your intent, you are making connections that are not true. For instance,"Romanian Orthodox religion was the only orthodox christian religion" is not true. The Coptic Church is the Orthodox version of Christianity and in particular to Catholicism. The word "orthodox" is an adjective. In application, all religions have an orthodox version. Orthodox simply means that the followers of the religion adhere and practice the strictness version of the philosophy. Also, in your original post: "I believe this was AFTER Rome deserted her outpost (Rome-Romania, get it)?" this is a disjointed connection of Rome to Romania, although I agree with the underpinnings of your statement. It's just that you seem to allude to Rome the city in the same way that one would refer, correctly, to the Roman Catholic Church with regards to this subject. And you also refer to the Romanian language being based on Vulgar Latin as if that implies some further relationship to Rome and/or the Roman Catholic Church, when a huge amount of languages are based on Vulgar Latin. So, that fact has no significance.

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do you actually take all that seriously?
what a Load of crap!

" I am talking about..ethics "

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Interesting point. Care to elaborate? What exactly do you know about Romanians? Or Romania, for that matter. I am curious.

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[deleted]

Well, it looks like you spent your childhood and puberty there. Which is not bad. That can provide experience. To a certain extent. But you don't seem to be that well-informed though. Romanians are ignorant on many aspects but not THAT ignorant. If you are Romanian by descent...never mind. Have a nice day.

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[deleted]

I am romanian, have been all my life, grew there, live there etc...

I had a terrible laugh reading the posts above and find many of them quite amusing and naive, some with a dash of bad history knowledge.

Hx lesson: Romania ("Decia/Dacia") was under Seljuk/Ottoman rule for some time, especially in the area now called "Transylvania" (land on the other side of the forest)-I believe this was AFTER Rome deserted her outpost (Rome-Romania, get it?) Also of note, the Romanian Orthodox church is the only "Orthodox" religion(adheres to the "Eastern" traditions, answers to Constantinople ie.: GREEK origins)to utilize a Romance-based language in its liturgy; about 60% of Romanian is based on Vulgar Latin. Mugs and Fishes


Did you get this from the Daily Planet ?

It was called Dacia untill it was conquered by the roman (half andaluz) emperor Ulpius Marcus Traianus in his second war with Decebal 106 A.D.

Romania as a statal entity appeared at 1859 as a result of the union of the 2 states : Moldova and Tara Romaneasca (Romanian County). Some decades later, after WW1, Transilvania joins and unites with the brother states. Before that Romania existed only as a word, being composed of 3 separated states : Moldova to the East, Tara Romaneasca to the South and Transilvania between the Carpathian Ark.

When Selgiuk first united the nomad TURANIC tribes, the Constantinopole still existed as a full christian power, please revive your history lessons.

Only at 1452 with the Fall of the Constantinopole due to the siege of Soultan Mehmed the II can we see of the Otoman Empire pushing it's borders towards eastern and central Europe.

At arround 1526 the Otoman Empire (after it's first ruler and real founder Osman the I ) the romanian states fall under under turkish power, not conquered but by paying a tribute.

You claim this happened after the romans retreated their troops from the province Dacia in the year 271 A.D (the Aurelian Retreat as it's known), while the turks appeared in the Romanian provinces 1200 years later. Please don't post crap here without getting some correct knowledge of what happened.

Also of note, the Romanian Orthodox church is the only "Orthodox" religion(adheres to the "Eastern" traditions, answers to Constantinople ie.: GREEK origins)to utilize a Romance-based language in its liturgy; about 60% of Romanian is based on Vulgar Latin


Also of note:You're wrong again! There is only one orthodox religion in Romania and it's mainly based on the religion proliferated in Constantinople untill it was conqured by the turks. 86,8% of the country's population are simple orthodox.
I will quote 5 of the largest religions in Romania :
Orthodox church - 18,83 million members
Roman-Catholic church : 1,02 million members
Greek-Catholic church : 191.556 members
Reformed Church : 701.077 members
Baptist church : 126.639 members

Vampire Legends?

My friend, Romanians didn't even know what the heck a vampire was until the fall of the Communism and the rise of Tourism.


Perhaps you care to explain how the heck vampires have been a popular myth in the rural areeas of Romania untill modern times. Terms like STREGOIKA, Necuratu'. Dracu' and so on have been used by villagers to explain blood loss of their animals. Perhaps you might want to explain all the folk tales about : VARCOLACI (a kind of Werewolves) and of other unholy creatures in the medieval ages...Or perhaps you might want to read and learn a bit before posting total *beep* ...

Well, it looks like you spent your childhood and puberty there. Which is not bad. That can provide experience. To a certain extent. But you don't seem to be that well-informed though. Romanians are ignorant on many aspects but not THAT ignorant. If you are Romanian by descent...never mind. Have a nice day.


I speak fluently 7 european languages and currently aiming russian and chinese as my next objectives due to the change in comercial relationships with these countries and the everincreasing need for raw and cheap materials. I have attended Law and History University and had the oportunity to learn from the best scholars in Romania, many of them very eminent at Sorbonne, France. My profession at the moment : Export Manager.
Do these facts make me an ignorant ? My friend, your arrogance simply blinds you. Please remove the horse glasses and message me for some lessons, anytime at your disposal.

I never said Romanians were ignorant people. I said that they were oppressed by a Socialistic/Communistic governent. And no, I didn't grow up in Romania.
Alas, it matters not.

So how come you spent 17 years amongst us ? You live perhaps in a romanian village near New Delhi ? ... The fact communism was imposed for almost 45 years doesen't mean we were reduced to the Ice Age for Christ sake. In those times people did read books and got a solid training in their areeas or well educated. Nowadays a teenager doesen't even know when his country got together for the first time as a statal entity.

So please, before you post, be sure you got documented before posting total erroneus facts, otherwise you risk of appearing as a cultural and historical ass ...

Kind regards

B.



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[deleted]

They had it coming and I hope the phrase : Margaritas ante porcum won't apply this time ... I hope!

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kewl that now I can something new to talk about when i watch a vampire flick.

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Feel free to ask anything regarding this subject or any other related to it.

regards

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That's a terrific history lesson, well done. I came to the message board to see what people had posted about The Cave film and ended up learning something. Always a good thing :)

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Glad to know there are people who still appreciate documented history and real facts. Thanks SirLoyne and christa!

However there are people like the last poster who's message got deleted by an admin, prolly after flaming mindlessly or insulting with 2 bit arguments ... Allah's garden is huge ...

Regards

B.S

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could some one please translate the = Cum s-ar zice, strici orzul pe gaste. Asta e! Nu poti sa-i educi pe toti. bit into english as i live to learn

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could some one please translate the = Cum s-ar zice, strici orzul pe gaste. Asta e! Nu poti sa-i educi pe toti. bit into english as i live to learn


Translation of what you requested from Romanian :

Pearls before swine! You can't educate them all

Hope they learned something from my upper posts ...

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Please don't post crap here without getting some correct knowledge of what happened.

After this display of boorish superiority, you then demonstrate your self-exemption from the demands you make of others:

Only at 1452 with the Fall of the Constantinopole due to the siege of Soultan Mehmed the II can we see of the Otoman Empire pushing it's borders towards eastern and central Europe.

Not so. The Ottoman Turks crossed the Dardanelles in 1352 and expanded into Thrace and the Balkans (both in eastern Europe) during subsequent decades. This was decades before the fall of Constantinople--which was in 1453 (not 1452, as you alleged).

You ridiculed the poster for his sources, but what were yours?

In a later post in this thread, you wrote:
Glad to know there are people who still appreciate documented history and real facts.

Unlike yourself.
________________________
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Just seeing this response now, but... *stands up and applauds*

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You sound butt-hurt because he owned you when you tried to play the "What do you even know about Romania??" card, and he informs you he was there for 17 years......yeah, I'd venture a guess that he probably DOES know more about Romanians than you do, haha

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Really ? Are you sure ?

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Subaquatic vampires ... heh, that would be somethin' ...

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Yes I was thinking along the same lines. Perhaps in a sequel they can explore a different kind of metamorphosis(read vampiric)in the outside world.

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the cave sucked

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[deleted]

Well I think it's pretty obvious that it tried to "explain" vampires . First it's freakin Romania, second - the beasts look like giant mutated bats. And the "disease" spreads when they bite, scratch you. :)

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an scratch infects the victin, means itsn ot a vampire. they dont choose to remain in dark, they are simply trapped inside the cave. the ending pretty much spells it out that they want to get out in the light.

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