Hollywood knows nothing about guns!!! - Assault on Precinct 13 (2005) Discussion

[–] Studman_Productions 19 years ago

yeah. Obviously they know how guns work but just use it for effect. Habe you seen any moviesthat depict guns accurately? I heard Way of the Gun does.

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[–] glop17 19 years ago

"there was scene in this movie where one of the attacking policeman pumps his shotgun before he shoots it"
Where in this movie???

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[–] sunshineredhat 19 years ago

Maybe he shot it once already, but the scene depicting it was edited out? Happens all the time.

Maybe it was a character flaw?

Maybe it was just a mistake? Humans tend to do that sort of thing.

But yeah... They didn't just have a bunch of dipsh*ts grabbing random weapons and throwing them in a movie. In the behind the scenes featurettes, they have weapons experts and all sorts of the types of guns officer would use. So it's not the "Hollywood knows nothing about guns", it's probably something else.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] deltajvliet 15 years ago

Yeah, The Way of the Gun has some of the most realistic gunplay around. God I love that movie.

Room clearing in the movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfokJrYhn5E

Leap frogging:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BovXzH36M0I

Here's the final shootout (spoilers at the end):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk8f3D4zZK4

My mule don't like people laughing. Gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him.

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[–] farmerbob42 14 years ago

yeh, though i would say its just convention, cocking a gun is over used in this movie for cheap dramatic effect, like in scene transitions, just randomly showing the snipers outside cocking their guns ha

Way of the gun is amazing, very underrated movie.

I remember in the commentary, during a scene the weapons guy was saying to an extra that if he turned a corner like that, with his foot coming around first he'd get shot, so they added it in. SPOILER - one of the reasons the main characters get shot up is that they have to reload, his buddy can't cover him since he's reloading leading him to get shot, find that in another hollywood movie

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[–] deltajvliet 15 years ago

Also check out Heat.

My mule don't like people laughing. Gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him.

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[–] clmryan47 15 years ago

I actually think ghost in the shell gives a very accurate depiction of how guns are used than just about any hollywood film and that's a cartoon!

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[–] spane 19 years ago

What about how guns sound in movies. Not nearly as loud and sharp of a sound as a real gun. If the characters in these Hollywood movies were firing real guns (without hearing protection), 90% of them would have their ears ringing for a week. But at least the sound changes make sense - accurately depicting the gun fire sound would not be practicle and would distract from the story.

Point being that in movies/TV shows, guns: aren't handled properly, don't sound accurate or nearly loud enough, lack recoil, and have excess flame coming out of the muzzle. Most of this is due to the use of blanks instead of bullets.

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[–] tomcat69w 19 years ago

Not only that,...but if you've ever seen someone get shot in the head (I have) The blood spoots like a gawdamm fountain. If they're (Hollywood) are trying to be realistic,...then do it (The Wild Bunch) way and have blood gushing out of a body like it does in real life (death) hahahahahaha. Sick??? No,...just a realist. Peckinpah used over 50 gallon's of pig's blood for the finale of The Wild Bunch. Now THAT was realism.

The Smoker You Drink, The Player You Get!

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[–] justinlesamiz 18 years ago

you never saw anyone get shot in the head. stop trying to look cool on the internet, you douchebag.

- www.therightclique.com -

EAT MORE COPS

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[–] tomcat69w 17 years ago

Oh Really? I spent 3 tours of Duty in Vietnam from 1972-75 right up to the overthrow of Saigon and was on one of the last choppers out of that Hell Hole. What the *beep* is YOUR PROBLEM????

The Smoker You Drink, The Player You Get!

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[–] SpiltPersonality 14 years ago

When you got back... did you come home with a brand new plan to take the seed from Colombia and Mexico and plant it up the holler down Copperhead Road?

Just wondering...

BTW - being serious now... whether you went to the 'Nam or not, the trouble with the internet is that a lot of people bolster their claim with outrageous declarations proving their expertise. Eventually they get caught out by dropping something that is very obviously 'impossible', but reading some of your other posts it doesn't seem to be the case. Don't be too hard on the poster who dissed you. It's not nice, I understand, but the truth is: if one refutes a claim like 'seen someone get a head shot' 10 times, probably 9 times you'll be right

Have a nice day.

SpiltPersonality

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[–] farmerbob42 14 years ago

furthermore, this movie is so inaccurate it doesnt even really take someone with experience to know its wrong

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[–] subase 14 years ago

Basic human anatomy.

Blood in the body is pressurized and if you rupture an artery it will squirt out.

Looks really gross and gory in real life, hence they don't include it in most action films. Also must be a pain in the bum to clean up and film.

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[–] bluesteel89 19 years ago

One movie that had noticeably loud sounding gun effects (Especially in Theatres) was Kevin Costner's Open Range (2003). The rifles in that movie sounded pretty real to me, it really knocked your socks of during the gun battles.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] sunshineredhat 19 years ago

Also, when people cock a gun by using two fingers. I understand if its a character who is unfamiliar with guns, but no real professional would do it like that!

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] SDsZ28 17 years ago

All three of those movies were very good when it comes to weapons handling.

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[–] deltajvliet 15 years ago

My mule don't like people laughing. Gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him.

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[–] RobsanX 19 years ago

A gun's clip/magazine can be full while there is no round in the chamber... In this case the gun would need to be cocked, and no round would be ejected...

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[–] Jm1985 19 years ago

true, if you load a shotgun with the action closed, you can fill the tube full and not chamber a shell untill you get ready, my point was that in alot movies I see, alot of times when there is a standoff or something, they dont cock the gun untill midway point into the conversation. that is unrealistic becuse if someone points a gun at someone, they are going to have it ready to fire.

And now that I think about it, the scene where the one of the corrupt cops pumps the shotgun and then shoots the lock off of the gate could be a realistic situation, since they were in a hurry to get to there.

-----------------------------------
20 year old Conservative American

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[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] dante144 19 years ago

Perhaps he had not chambered a round yet.

There are some services that do not carry pistols in 'condition 1,' I think its called, for safety reasons. I met an Israeli trained operator that had mentioned this.

Perhaps that swhat this shot gunner was doing. Maybe he didn't wantto accidently blow himself away or one of his mates on the way to the door.

http://DanteDreams.com/ <-My webcomic
"Jesus saves, everyone else takes damage" -Tshirt

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[–] petermoyer2001 19 years ago

"Perhaps that what this shot gunner was doing. Maybe he didn't want to accidently blow himself away or one of his mates on the way to the door."

I know you're just thinking creatively -- which is important in Hollywood -- but if I didn't want my shotgun to accidentally discharge, I would engage the safety.

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[–] LiquidTension 19 years ago

There are Desert Eagles that shoot 9mm. "Baby Eagles" come in 9mm and .45, the Action Express is .50 but also a lot more customizable (kits exist to modify it heavily).
I've heard that Terminator 2 was very acurate with its depictions of gunplay. I believe it was so accurate that a gun magazine (think it was Soldier of Fortune or Guns & Ammo) praised the accuracy.

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[–] vb_legacy 19 years ago

Does anyone notice how almost evertime shotguns are involved, they are being held like pistol grip shotguns even if there not. Highly, highly unrealistic. Notice the Rock in the end of the rundown. What a joke. Shotgun in each hand. Well anyways I was also wandering if any one could lead me to a website that shows police issued guns. I'm sure there are alot of movies where guns are being used by officers that the force doesn't even use.

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[–] john-3549 19 years ago

Yeah, they actually reloaded their guns in Terminator 2.

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[–] the_spec77 19 years ago

The gun play in Terminator 1 was praised by SoF magazine because apparently Schwarzenegger was reloading his guns quite fast and professional.
As for some of the things shown in movies, it's depicted for effect, not for realism.
Pumping your shotgun has something to do with psychology in movies, telling the audience that someone means business even though the gun should already be loaded and ready. However I've never seen someone pull back the slide of the handgun when the action starts, they usually just cock the gun, again showing that they mean business.
You could probably learn a bit of stuff about gunplay from realistic movie scenes but that's not the reason why hollywood doesn't do it. In most cases it's easier and offers more action to do it the hollywood way rather than the realistic one. Besides, bad guys could only get ideas from movies, but watching Heat won't make you a gun expert, that's a bit much.

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[–] falcons_atl05 18 years ago

"pumping your shotgun has something to do with psychology in movies, telling the audience that someone means business..."

Thats pretty much true lol, my neighbor owns a Franchi SPAS-12, just the sound of the pump being worked on that weapon is one of the most intimidating things i've ever heard; it'll make you think twice before you ever try to rob his house...
Ive never looked at it that way before, the pumping of the shotgun(an already loaded one; locked, cocked, and ready to rock) does have a psychological effect on movie audiences

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[–] JonM1911 17 years ago

yea, that would be the other thing, 5 minutes of an all out gun battle with no reloading. What do you got on that Colt, belt fed ammo? lol Then after the fight is over, oh...reload time. Another one, from what I remember, that was good was Live Free or Die Hard, McClain actually reloaded his gun quite often, however it was hilarious that in the apartment when the bad guys first attack, that his rounds didn't go through the recliner that the guy was hiding behind. Oh wait, kevlar lined recliner, lol.

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[–] deltajvliet 15 years ago

Terminator 2, because we all know the proper way to use a lever-action shotgun is to flip cock it.

My mule don't like people laughing. Gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him.

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[–] foob-5 17 years ago

alot of times when there is a standoff or something, they dont cock the gun untill midway point into the conversation. that is unrealistic becuse if someone points a gun at someone, they are going to have it ready to fire.

There are a lot of DA/SA pistols. This means you don't need to cock it to fire. The first trigger pull will cock and release the hammer, while the subsequent ones will just release the hammer, because the slide cocks the hammer after each shot.

So during a standoff, a person is ready to fire with hammer down. He can cock it to show the opponent he means business or to get a faster shot. Whether that's a good idea in real life, I don't know. I've never been in a standoff, and neither has 99.9999999% of people in real life.

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[–] pope_duke 19 years ago

Quite by accident, I just caught the majority of this movie last night. It was an okay action flick, as others have said, and I do enjoy the work of many of the performers involved.

But yes, as mentioned by JM1985 (& others), there were many of these "mistakes". I am of the mind that Hollywood is well aware and simply does it for effect. Every time someone picked up a gun or was handed a gun, etc., etc. they would chamber a round. Now, if you picked up a recently fired gun from a deceased enemy, it is safe to assume that unless they exhausted all the rounds, you do not need to chamber a new one. You are simply wasting a bullet.

When they handed the baretta 9mm to Rosen (?) to go defend the back door, and he chambered a round, I thought to myself, "well, unless it had been recently loaded, he would have just wasted a bullet when they are already tight on firepower".

But once again, I am being a nit-picker, and this is Hollywood.

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[–] jpycior-1 19 years ago

Good points all around. Yes, I agree, Hollywood does it just for effect. However, with "Heat" that was extremely realistic from what I understand. They had to close down the streets for that one.

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[–] shiloh64 19 years ago

There may be security issues involved with their lack of "gun realism." Hollywood probably doesn't want to teach a bunch of impressionable kids (and gangbangers) how to properly use a gun. The movie "Heat" was presumably studied by the two bank robbers involved in the North Hollywood incident, which happened to be the most intense police shootout in recent history.

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[–] long_derek 19 years ago

The baby eagle is a completly different weapon it is base on the israeli's army handgun.Also wasn't it the first terminator film that was praised for accurate weapon handling?

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[–] chrome38 19 years ago

yeah im suprised no one has mentioned revolvers. i always see actors the revolvers when most of the time they are double action as few are single action now. double action means you dont need to the gun in order for it to fire but they do anyways.

also i always notice in fire fights someone will have a revolver which unless its a .22 will have 6 shots. They fire as many as 10 sometimes with no scene of reloading and no possible time to reload. what it comes down to is dont think you know alot about guns from watching movies/tv becuase most of it is crap.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] sunshineredhat 18 years ago

"Hollywood" knows nothing about guns?

Like "Hollywood" is just one guy making all these movies and there's no such thing as technical advisors or anything like that. And Rogue pictures is soooo Hollywood, let me tell you.

Get the *beep* otta here with that *beep*

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[–] millenniumgroup 17 years ago

Hollywood knows nothing about guns?

The Rock says hi

Heat says hi

Terminator 1 and 2 says hi

Collateral says hi

Shall I go on?

"Wait!" "Worry" "Who Cares?"

www.alienexperience.com
tiwwa.info/

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[–] kurgan77340 18 years ago

Smith & Wesson and Taurus both make 7 round .357 revolvers. Taurus also makes an 8 round .357 revolver.

Many small frame .38s only have 5 rounds. Also the supermagnums (.454 Casull, .480 Ruger, .500 S&W, etc) usually only have 5 rounds.

In general, Hollywood doesn't know anything about anything except making movies. This is mostly because they don't care, because it doesn't affect earnings. If a movie includes things that you know something about due to your work or hobbies, just accept that they are going to get it all wrong.

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[–] mydogisloco 18 years ago

its called being resposible he doesnt want to shoot someone by accident while there getting into position

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