Update: Fixed some wacky spelling errors
"they didn't start farming untill after trading with europe/ being conquered by europe."
-See: Aztecs, the vast empire of the Powhatan (Algonquin) Charles C. Mann's "1491" and accompanying article: http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Chumash/Population.html
"As for other socieities, your going to have to give me evidence that the male counterparts weren't able to do any heavy lifting and were physically inferior to women."
Whoa, now. If you have gotten any of the "all men are inferior to women vibe" from me, then I apologize because I've never stated one sex as the unequivocal and indisputable superior. I believe that I mentioned that I was stronger than certain men I play co-ed soccer/hockey with, but I never said I was stronger than all men, or vice versa. In regards to my arguments with coal-the-troll, I posed the question of what qualifies as "men's" work, or "women's" work. If someone can do a job, they should get it, regardless of gender, race, age, etc...Look up stuff on nomadic cultures such as the Maasai, in which both men and women complete physically demanding work.
"The amazon's are a myth. If your refering to Spartan women, if they were truly equal in every way even biological, they would have been in the army, they weren't. While they were more built then their athenian incubator counterpart, biology still made them physically weaker then their male counterparts."
See: the Sarmatians, French Revolution, Crusades, Boudica (Boudicca),Vishpla, Aahhotep I, Zabibi, Samsi, Tomyris, Himoko, Jingo Kogo, Mavia, Saimei, Dihya al-Kahina, Hittite women warriors, Joan of Arc, female gladiators, Queen Aethelburgh, etc, etc, etc... Women have fought as soldiers since the beginning of civilization. After reading about these women, check out edicts and papal bulls that were written to force women back into the home. As for the Amazons, I thought that they were still under debate. I personally think such a popular myth (that appeared in both Homer and Herodotus), probably has some foundation in fact. Many people thought Troy was a myth, but a German treasure hunter found it.
"Furthermore your making claims that men aren't usually physically stronger and that biologists made all that up."
I said society dictates biological continuance, not that biology was a myth.
From a New York Times Article:
"What emerges when one studies male biology in a truly evenhanded way is the realization that from the moment of conception on, men are less likely to survive than women. It's not just that men take on greater risks and pursue more hazardous vocations than women. There are poorly understood — and underappreciated — vulnerabilities inherent in men's genetic and hormonal makeup. This Father's Day, we need to rededicate ourselves to deepening our knowledge of male physiology.
Men's troubles begin during the earliest days in the womb. Even though there are more male than female embryos, there are more miscarriages of male fetuses. Industrial countries are also witnessing a decline in male to female birth ratios, and we don't know why.
Some scientists have argued that the probability of a male child declines as parents (especially fathers) age. Still others have cited the prevalence of pesticides, which produce more birth defects in male children.
Even when a boy manages to be born, he's still behind the survival eight ball: he is three to four times more likely than girls to have developmental disorders like autism and dyslexia; girls learn language earlier, develop richer vocabularies and even hear better than boys. Girls demonstrate insight and judgment earlier in adolescence than boys, who are more impulsive and take more risks than their sisters. Teenage boys are more likely to commit suicide than girls and are more likely to die violent deaths before adulthood...
As adults, too, men die earlier than women. Twice as many men as women die of coronary artery disease, which manifests itself a decade earlier in men than women; when it comes to cancer, the news for men is almost as bad. Women also have more vigorous immune systems than men: of the 10 most common infections, men are more likely to have serious encounters with seven of them...
Considering the relative fragility of men, it's clearly counterintuitive for us to urge them, from boyhood on, to cope bravely with adversity, to ignore discomfort, to persevere in spite of pain and to accept without question the most dangerous jobs and tasks we have to offer. Perhaps the reason many societies offer boys nutritional, educational and vocational advantages over girls is not because of chauvinism — it's because we're trying to ensure their survival." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/17/opinion/17legato.html?ex=1308196800&en=22e07f8bc5bd2028&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
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Full_Blooded_Italian
18 years ago
If someone can do a job, they should get it, regardless of gender, race, age, etc.
Well that's something we can agree on. I do however, feminist groups and the government seems to feel that women need a leg up on the physical tests, so untill that's changed or at least the attitude is changed, I don't want to hear "But I"m a lady" if they do get the job that's physcally taxing or requires them to fight.
See: the Sarmatians, French Revolution, Crusades, Boudica (Boudicca),Vishpla, Aahhotep I, Zabibi, Samsi, Tomyris, Himoko, Jingo Kogo, Mavia, Saimei, Dihya al-Kahina, Hittite women warriors, Joan of Arc, female gladiators, Queen Aethelburgh, etc, etc, etc... Women have fought as soldiers since the beginning of civilization.
The french revolution was more a angry mob overthrow, Joan was an exception to the rule. You forgot to list the celts (who the amazons may have been based on), however that still dosn't change biology. Even families with big strong people don't always bear strong offspring. (physically anyway). I didn't mean to imply no females fought, I did mean to imply that as I had misinterprted you, if females were greater theyw ould have been the ones fighting. (You've cleared that up though).
I personally think such a popular myth (that appeared in both Homer and Herodotus), probably has some foundation in fact. Many people thought Troy was a myth, but a German treasure hunter found it.
Well the city of troy was found during the ROman Empire and was a resort there. I think Augustus used to go there alot, it was rebuilt over the ruins though.
I said society dictates biological continuance, not that biology was a myth.
Ok and again, I still don't agree with that because many physically strong people have kids and they don't necessarily end up just like their parents.
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PinkPlasticFlamingo
18 years ago
Can we agree to disagree on certain points?
I didn't mean to sound argumentative, if I came off that way.
Personally, I don't mind debating with you since you haven't resorted to hyperbole and insults.
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Full_Blooded_Italian
18 years ago
[quote]Can we agree to disagree on certain points?
[quote]
Don't see why not. There's nothing wrong with different oppinions.
I'm just getting over the whole Benoit Incident (His character was a idol of mine) so maby I took your arguments argumentative.
Thanks for the kind words.
I would like this question answered if you can, and I don't care if your oppinion differs from mine. what's your oppinion on the afirmative action programs that give bonus's to women in the fitness type tests?
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PinkPlasticFlamingo
18 years ago
Not a big fan, really. As long as someone can do a job, they should get it, and with no special privileges or easier testing.
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