MovieChat Forums > Collateral (2004) Discussion > Last 30 minutes was terrible, A lot of e...

Last 30 minutes was terrible, A lot of eye rolls proceeded

posted 8 years ago by JimmiesRustler
14 replies | jump to latest

Was really good with the entire movie, the back and forth between Max and Vincent. Why is Vincent this ruthless killer, why is he dragging Max along with him..what does he want...what are his REAL motivations. We get hints at these and no answers and that is a sad thing to be honest. Interpretation is not always the best form of storytelling. My theatre coach taught me that. What he means is that sometimes you want to tell the viewer/reader something and you need to be direct with that. I thought Vincent did a decent job when he basically said, "We are all nothing anyways" before Max flipped the car, so we start to realize his motivation is that he a cynist and a realist.

We start to dig a little deeper and then out of nowhere its someone else directed the last 30 minutes of the film and decided to do this crazy save Jada Pinkett Storyline with felt contrived and boring to be honest. I would have rather they cut her 10 minutes she got out at the beginning and the 30 she got at the end and spent those 40 minutes developing both Max and Vincent in maybe two more major scenarios. I felt like I had more questions at the end than I had at the middle. Absolutely nothing was resolved. Was Max cleared by the police and feds since he saved a DA? Do the feds even care since he attacked a cop and held him a gunpoint to save said DA? What about Vincent and the Cartels shootout in the club which left at least 10 dead and who knows how many wounded. There was never any resolution to any of this.

[–] TexasJack (12516) 6 years ago

I think Max would have been cleared for attacking the cop because he knew that Annie was in imminent danger and that any delay would mean her death.

[–] avortac4 (3742) 4 years ago

The good old, 'Someone innocent is suspected / framed, and cops are after them, but then in the end, all of that is forgotten'-trope.

So many movies resort to this, and I EXPECTED this movie to do it, too.

I was not disappointed.. I knew they wouldn't resolve it after Vincent died. Suddenly these 'little details' don't matter anymore when something big happens. Sigh. Such bad moviemaking.

[–] Seperatrix (1213) 4 years ago

"We start to dig a little deeper and then out of nowhere its someone else directed the last 30 minutes of the film and decided to do this crazy save Jada Pinkett Storyline with felt contrived and boring to be honest."

Agreed. The chase and supposed threat to Pinkett's character was formulaic and boring.

Not to mention, the absurdity of the hit man not taking out the cab driver in the office along with the attorney.

He allows himself to be shot, rather than be the first to shoot? Yeah . . . .

[–] TroyB (164) 2 years ago

Vincent was gonna shoot her but Max beat him to it. The movie is all about timing and taking risks. This seems to have floated over many heads.

[–] Seperatrix (1213) 2 years ago

Max "beat him to it?"

Absurd. He most certainly did not. It wasn't an old Western showdown where the "fastest draw" won the day.

Vincent is the professional killer. He had the chance to take out Max but allowed himself to get shot instead. That doesn't seem to fit the narrative flow of the film in my opinion.

To refresh your memory: Vincent turns to see Max pointing a gun at him. Right then and there Vincent should have taken Max out. But no. They both stare at each other, then Vincent says something like "What are you going to do about it?" Then turns away from Max (the guy pointing a gun at him) and prepares to shoot the Pinkett character.

That's a cheesy lame moment in the film. A film that otherwise I like quite a bit.

I get that Vincent has come to know Max as a guy who never follows through on anything in life. So the idea we're suppose to take away is that in that moment Vincent is blowing off Max as a threat because Vincent believes that Max just doesn't have it in him. But no master hitman like Vincent would take that risk. Not to mention he was going to kill Max anyway. If someone is pointing a gun at you and you're a hitman, and the other guy is distracting and potentially preventing you from doing your job, and you were going to kill him anyway . . . well, then you shoot that person, then turn back and finish off your target.

Maybe something was floating over your head. Then crash landed.

[–] TroyB (164) 2 years ago

That's why I said the movie was about timing and taking risks. It was clear that Vincent didn't feel Max would pull the trigger. The sequence felt like a stall tactic, which Vincent ignored and then paid for it.

While I agree, the last 20 or so minutes of the movie did lose a bit of steam, it still closed out as expected: poetically.

[–] Seperatrix (1213) 2 years ago

It's in the eye of the beholder I suppose. But the Vincent we are introduced to and come to know throughout the film leading up to that moment is incongruent with the Vincent IN that moment.

It was lazy and formulaic to say the least.

The closing of Vincent on the MTA might be viewed as cheesy by some, but I liked it. If that's what you meant by "closed out as expected." But the sequence leading up to that moment is what many films fall prey to: a strong beginning and middle but turn toward the standard chase sequence and nonsensical actions and events in order to wrap things up.

[–] acidraindrop (3055) 2 years ago

I agree with you. I think that was clear from the timing that that was the point. Vincent, at that point, is super pissed off at Max.

I think it's more of an issue that Vincent didn't kill him in the car; he just smacked him a few times and left him for dead. But the condescension in Vincent's voice after Max told him to let her go seems totally consistent with his character to me. He could have outshot Max; he's much faster. But his arrogance failed him there.

[–] RockAway (1601) 2 years ago

I didn’t mind that so much as the absurdity that Max just ‘happened’ to pick Jada up in New York, one of the most populated cities in the world, who just so happened to be on the kill list of his next passenger.

So contrived.

[–] acidraindrop (3055) 2 years ago

Vincent was casing Jada's workplace, presumbly before she got there. Sure it's coincidental (like anything else in a movie), but it's not absurdly random that Vincent would get into the same cab that dropped Jada off to work.

If Max didn't happen to pick up Jada, it could have been some other cabbie. Actually, it nearly was some other cabbie. Max called over to Vincent; he was about to take another cab.

[–] Ace_Spade (9544) 2 years ago

A great explanation of that aspect of the screenplay. All the "I Ching" stuff is baked right in. It's one of the tightest scripts I've seen.

I'm a little bummed out that OP is a dead account. I want to point out that we don't need to see the aftermath because of course Max got cleared. Did the cops arrest him and prosecute? Who's going to prosecute him? The DA?

[–] acidraindrop (3055) 2 years ago

Tight script is right. Such a nicely written written story from front to back. I'm still so disappointed in Miami Vice, as I excitedly went to theaters for that...

And yeah lol, sometimes, there's some really good conversations to be had from the imdb era threads. Just a time capsule. But yeah, most movies don't really give any sort of resolution. Here, I think it's pretty clear that the powers that be are gonna protect him. He might even need witness protection after this lol

[–] Ace_Spade (9544) 2 years ago

It's one of the absolute tightest-written film scripts I've seen - in my opinion. There's no fat on it. Everything is perfectly in place.

I didn't care for Miami Vice, either, and I was really disappointed because I'm a huge fan of Heat and Collateral, and when I saw Miami Vice I was just kinda bored. I do know a couple people who love it, and I'm wondering if I want to try viewing it again - at least just giving the first few minutes a shot.

I feel such a missed opportunity seeing deadthreads, too, because these are users who like talking about film, and it's too bad that they didn't leap over. I like Moviechat, but I do wish it was a little more vibrant. I still rip on IMDb for scuttling their boards.

Movies like Collateral - smart movies, good scripts - recognize that they don't need to show every resolution to every character in the film. We don't need to go to the funerals of the dead characters. We don't need to see the dating life of Max and the prosecutor. We don't need to see what happened to Jason Statham's sinister agent character. The central ideas of the film are fulfilled and explored, Max's character arc is complete, and the main story is over. Don't stick around for ages explaining the long process of Max dealing with cops and lawyers.

Although, now that I think about it, a bolder, better Max wasting no trying to finally establish his limo "experience" company while being hounded by cops and lawyers, AND trying to get a couple dates in with Annie is a movie I would watch. That'd be a BOLD idea for a sequel, too, going from an action-thriller with philosophical overtones to a legal drama/slice of life.

[–] BourbonKing (5777) 2 years ago

Michael Mann did the same thing in Heat by conveniently looping Waingro back into the plot line that inevitably feeds back into Hannah's ability to track Neil's entire outfit down. Add the other convenience of Henry Rollins being an informer while also working for Van Zandt who is an A level criminal Hannah has no interest in putting away.