MovieChat Forums > Art School Confidential (2006) Discussion > From the perspective of an Art student.....

From the perspective of an Art student....

posted 18 years ago by Rowi111
85 replies | jump to latest

This movie made me feel almost insulted, even though I'm not the typical P.C. type person. I realize it's all in fun, and I'm not uptight. I got the impression that most people would know that this movie's portrayal wasn't accurate, just fun. But it seems some people are taking this crap in.

Towards the end the movie becomes less about fun, and more about how you have to "suck someones ______", or do something else to get attention, to make it in the Art world. This can be true at times, as with anything in life (sadly).

But the most frustrating thing to me about the movie, was his class. In a typical Art School classroom, you would see a thousand drawings like his self-portrait. Art teachers ARE looking for something different. But here it is made out that no one could actually draw or paint, every one just wanted to make a statement by throwing crap on canvas. Honestly, the blonde guy's paintings? Come on...If you sat in on a real Art class, you would see some really good, original work, something you didn't see in this movie.

But this is how the movie builds sympathy for the main character. We all end up saying "he's really good, what are they thinking?" When in reality he's as original as an American Idol contestant(come on, there are people out there who write, play, and sing their own songs better...sorry) . Honestly, his work sucked because there was nothing but talent behind it, not originality; I hate to see talent wasted.

Donnie: Why do you wear that stupid bunny suit?
Frank: Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?

[–] pamjane 18 years ago

But, what his professor said was true: why would he need to have his "own style" at his age? not saying that he can't be developing his own style, or even practicing it; but in a freshman drawing I class, what my school was like is that everyone drew what was in front of them and honed their skills. more conceptual work was reserved for the higher-level courses. i would say that jerome's drawing was definitely good for just-out-of-high-school, but would have improved a lot if his teachers had provided a bit of guidance.

and, sadly, i definitely saw stuff exactly like the blonde guy's work up in the student galleries at my school.
_________________
Your dirt removes my blindness,
Your pain becomes my peace.

[–] carlo_vandelli 18 years ago

i was surprised at how much this little film was right on...when i studied art at concordia university i can tell you that this is exactly the way it was in school....from the wannabes who couldn't draw a boob to the classicly trained painters who got trashed with no mercy by the lesser skilled students....

www.carlovandelli.com

[–] ThrowingChicken 18 years ago

That is pretty much how it was at my college. I didn't think the film was that great; of course the main character turned out to be a hack with a gimmick, but sitting through the critiques, especially during the early foundations classes I found myself in many "WTF" moments. And everyone still gets an A.

Something you start to pick up on during group critiques: The flat out worst work in the class always gets the nicest critique, while the best work is picked on through and through.

[–] Mukamale 18 years ago

It's true. There are thousands of great artists that have absolutely no imagination. They can draw or paint beautifully but there's nothing there to make their pieces stand out from the rest. A lot of these people end up doing concept art anyway.

Heh, I see no one liked the Blonde guy's stuff. I'm not sure if I liked it or not but it deffinatley struck me as interesting. It was very poparty with his use of yellow and orange backdrops. Good or Bad they had the eye's attention.

As for Jerome I think he made one great piece that was truly artistic... the painting of the girl's face. (The one that appears on the Modern Art Magazine at the end) You can totally feel his love for her while you look at it.

[–] ThrowingChicken 18 years ago

I liked the one he was painting in his cell.

As for the cop's work, the car piece was crap, but I thought the tank was rather bold. He could probably give graphic design a shot.

One of the situations that happened in the film that happened quite a bit during my foundations classes were students turning in effortless work that had little to do with the assignment, and often times little to do with the class all together. Students in a drawing class, when assigned to do a self portrait, would bring in a three-word written piece; one guy even brought in a mirror and hung it on the wall with the rest of the drawings (DRAWINGS, as in pencil or pen). Like the main character in the film, I thought it was all a copout, and it frustrated me how the class would eat that crap up.

[–] nebartist 18 years ago

But, what his professor said was true: why would he need to have his "own style" at his age?

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LOL I wish my professor would have said that. Even as a freshman he was telling me I should think ahead to my senior show and have a style down.As my college years went on he kept telling me I had to pick a style. Well I didnt. When I did my senior show I wanted it to reflect my entire college career. On opening day that professer came up to me and told me he was glad I didnt listen to him LOL.

[–] julas 17 years ago

I also thought the tank wasn't bad ;)

[–] OutForAWalkB-tch 17 years ago

Yeah from the little I've seen of this movie it's exactly how my classes were when I was in the art program at my college. Thankfully I dropped from that school because it was, in fact, bullsh!t.
I've come to feel like art school in itself is BS and a complete waste of time; it's all completely subjective and yet they try to teach it as though art is something one can master with a few drawing classes.

In the clearing stands a boxer.

[–] classicmoviecomedy 18 years ago

In any of the arts, there are always going to be the less talented "wannabes" who lack the talent to perform at a professional level, and know it, and more often than not crawl out of the woodwork every time someone with genuine talent puts their work up for discussion and criticism. It is not up to anyone to determine which side of the "artistic" fence they fall, their work will speak for itself.

Speaking for myself, I'm often surprised still how often a quality piece of work (again, in any of the arts) will get dismissed based on its not fitting a particular style.

Matt

[–] pettime 17 years ago

Amen.

:)

[–] The_Dying_Flutchman 17 years ago

Can anybody in that school get a table dance?

Nothing is more beautiful than nothing.

[–] Rowi111 18 years ago

It seems to me that in a normal Drawing I class, (like mine) the teacher would have had to teach things like perspective and foreshortening, but Jerome had all that. He needed to go on to something more unique and challenging to express himself. The other people in the class needed more basic guiding. I think his class looked more like an upper level seminar class. Around here Art students don't usually come in to school with these wildly abstract, non-representational, rebellious ideas in art. That eccentricity is usually developed (not always), and is sometimes effective (not usually).

Donnie: Why do you wear that stupid bunny suit?
Frank: Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?

[–] silentbobtwin 18 years ago

The first 30 minutes of this movie were great. It was dead on exact to my experiences in my first year of art school.

Sandy reminded me of my Figure Drawing teacher for whatever reason. The way he talked to Jerome about art and style and what not.

Five minute breaks.

Gallery shows and only going for open bar and free appetizers. Getting free wine at 18 was a pretty damn good reason to go look at someone's work who you really don't give a damn about in the first place.

Going from completely straight-edge to drinking and chain smoking. Oh, and the coffee abuse.

The stereotypes: goth, beatknick, stoner, hippie, vegan, mom (when they said mom I nearly died from laughter because we have two in our department), and the kissass.

Critiques. "I really like it." They don't say why, they just say they like it. And if you can *beep* really well you can get an A. I did this because... especially in our Foundation Studio class.

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I wish more people could really see how on point the first 30 minutes were.

Jerome was drawing all wrong, according to how I was taught. You really shouldn't use outlines to draw unless it's a 2-D drawing.

To me, his class seemed like an entry-level studio course. Some model work and some open-ended assignments. At my school, if you didn't have these wildly abstract, non-representational, rebellious ideas you were behind, but I was great at *beep* so I could get away with everything.

First year of art school was complete garbage and it was exactly like the first 30 minutes of this movie.

[–] antebellum 18 years ago

I'm not really an art student, but I have been taking art classes since my freshman year and I'm now a senior in high school. And it's the same thing everywhere. That's why I really liked this movie (at least before it got into the weird killer/detective crap), because it's so dead-on. This girl that graduated last year made the most ridiculous stuff that was trying to be meaningful and make a statement, but required little talent and was bull**** anyway. One piece I'm thinking of had a print/something transfer (I can't remember the exact term) of a thin girl in her underwear, a messy background including a handprint, and two plaster forearm casts hanging from nails. Can anyone tell me what that's supposed to mean? And, of course, people ate it up, as they did with all of the rest of that girl's work. The teachers loved her. A friend of mine is just like some have said, a very talented artist but extremely lacking in creativity, yet the teachers actually love her and she'll probably end up going to Pratt or something.

My question is, what would have made Jerome's work "original" or "creative"? Maybe I'm a bit too technical in my work, but I don't think I understand at all what makes art "good" other than the obvious skill involved. I thought Jerome's drawings were good and they were interesting in that they focused more on the face than anything else, which in figure drawings is supposed to be the opposite. I know in figure drawings I never even draw the face. There's a lot of expression in someone's face, and I think that's what made his work (particularly the one that ended up on the Modern Art cover) interesting.

The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun.

[–] wingedeggplant 18 years ago

No.... I don't agree with this movie one bit. My foundation year was a year of harsh critiques where talent and technical skill were realized. If you put abstract art work on the wall foundation year you were torn down and you had to work your ass off for an A. During critique you talked about the pieces and why they were good or bad giving the regulations for the assignment. And what’s with nude models on the first day of class? What about perspective? or line quality? or measuring? Experimentation comes after you get the basics down, unless you understand the basics the work one creates is empty that’s why that one kid when he said he wasn’t going to use light or form was full of BS. And I’m sorry Jerome would not be able to draw like he did that quickly without an anatomy class and thinking about the form underneath. And it was a line drawing, like he whipped it out with no problem at all... no measuring? seriously.... no... it doesn’t work that way. One does not just produce a really nice line drawing of the figure like that, unless maybe, maybe they’ve been doing it for many many years. And I dunno my models get a break every 20 minutes, it seemed longer in the movie. And Jonah... those paintings weren’t really that original... and the car composition was horrible. I was thinking of something along the lines of pop art, and it was so graphicy that its been dong before. I think they just showed his work as a joke. The stereotypes of students, they exist, but that bad? Nope… I know way to many normal people. Ok maybe not totally normal but the stereotypes in this movie were a joke, they’re not fooling anyone. Yea they exaggerated it was funny, but no it is not that bad.

But it was true what the teacher said tho... He doesn’t need a style at his age, but he failed to mention that people don’t need to find a style, you just develop one, everyone draws differently. If one keeps drawing they will eventually develop something.

And I felt the movie was right on about the success of the artist is based on ass kissing (for the most part)~ but only if your a fine artist, having gone into illustration I don’t have to deal with any BS that might have come my way if I went into the department above me. Overall it was stupid, movie, showing that originality and talent meant nothing in the fine art world, because it ended up Jerome wasn’t original and other people who got noticed showed no particular technical skill........ soo the meaning is~~~ hope you know someone because art is too damn subjective.

[–] nebartist 18 years ago

Jerome was drawing all wrong, according to how I was taught. You really shouldn't use outlines to draw unless it's a 2-D drawing.

===============================================

Yeah that is what we were taught in drawing 1. But in drawing 2 we were given more freedom and could use a number of different mediums and techniques

[–] ThrowingChicken 18 years ago

"And what’s with nude models on the first day of class?"

That's how it is. That's how it was for me.

[–] BobAteGrass 18 years ago

Alright, the person who first posted this topic needs to get a sense of humour. I'm an art student too, Savannah College of Art & Design, and I don't give a crap how they presented art students in this film. Actually, I found it quite accurate. But seriously, get a life, it's a movie. Movie!

[–] ThrowingChicken 18 years ago

My high school art teacher’s daughter graduated from there recently.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] jacowium 17 years ago

Some persons just seriously missed the humorous elements in the art class scenes - not to mention the satire...

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] iseniff 18 years ago

I too almost died from the mention of "mom" while listing the cliches. I have not so fond memories of our classes "mom" repeating the dialogue from the movie almost exactly.

[–] m_bernard22 18 years ago

EXACTLY!!! In the beginning it should be about developing various artistic skills so that when you have them you have the ABILITY to take anything conceptual in your mind and express it through your work. I have countless ideas popping up all the time...but I don't have all the skills yet to express them the way I see them in my head. The same goes for music (I'm a percussionist and guitarist as well). As an artsy and creative person I think of assloads of beats, melodies, and other things in a day...but I don't have all the skills yet to express them the way I can imagine them.

"Water can flow, or it can crash...be like water, my friend." - Bruce Lee

[–] broadway309 18 years ago

I thought this film pegged a bunch of things right about art school. A lot of it resonated perfectly with my school, anyway.

[–] jimjamjames 18 years ago

I could relate to alot of what was going on in art school when i was around that age of 18/19.. the film was quite good although it seemed to loose alot of credibility in the second half.

[–] Jennblake78 18 years ago

As an ex-art school (undergrad and grad) student and an art school teacher, I definitely got a kick out of this one! My undergrad experience was certainly nothing like how Jerome's freshman year was portrayed like (Freshman freaking out about getting a show and starting careers, and more of my teachers being like the Japanese sculpture teacher- dirty clothes, laid back, annoyed) I did have a class my freshman year that was a lot like the drawing class Malkovich's character taught. Our teacher, this weird German-accented relic gave everyone an A, regardless of the critiques (which were a joke anyway). He really used to scorn this one guy who did these very Lucian Freud inspired still lifes and praise this one poseur dingus who did sort of ab-ex rip offs.
We definitely had a few non-majors (like the blond guy in the film) who didn't really know what they were trying to do and brought in this really ameturish looking stuff that got praised, as well as several of the "mom" types. This professor was really popular with the art students that didnt like to be told their work was *beep* or have any sort of real discussion (and couldn't draw)
The rest of the freshman classes were mostly technique based or project based where there were certain parameters you had to follow for the project or assignment. That *beep* the one guy in the class spouted about his ideas and not following the guidlines for the painting would not have flown in most of my classes. He would have been panned in critique and class.
I thought this movie was more accurate to how my experience in graduate artschool was, especially my first year- alot of pretentious talk, the pressure to find a style (or in some cases, a gimmick), the survey and grading, and the push to try to start your art career from your degree show etc.. That blond guy's car and tank paintings would have totally fit in with the degree show exhibitions at my school.

[–] shawneehill 18 years ago

i thought this was amusing, im a pratt student, and i thought everything was pretty funny, i had teachers like that, and whatnot. not the best movie ever but enjoyable, but it was funny to know that it was sort of based off pratt, and i can definately see the similarities, in lots of little things that happened.

[–] spicy_mchaggis-2 17 years ago

That was one thing I thought was funny in school. The 98% of the students hated our best professor because he told everyone what was up. If their work wasn't good he let them know and he didn't let people slack off. Because of this everyone hated him. He was my favorite professor and I attribute pretty much him alone to giving my college experience any kind of worthwhile experience.

[–] leameighan 18 years ago

I think that "Movie", did have quite a bit of validity.

I also thought some of my teachers were hilarious, while others were a "Godsend".

But the critiqes, could be extremely amusing,like the art student who painted one color canvases with wax for a whole semester, and he wowed the crowd! Like no matter how bad your art was if you could argue for it well, the instructors would back down. Usually, if you work was not abstract, the other students were like piranas with blood in the water......

Maybe because I was older, I could see through a lot of the BS, there were trying to feed younger students. One example, an expression called "Mantlepiece Art". Which was a no-no, or if you were a Fine Arts major, thinking you could sell your work. Well I had sold almost everytning I had painted in Jr College before transferring!!! They encouraged students to change to Design if they wanted to sell their work. How exasperating.....

And I gotta admit, this movie really made me remember some of the funnier stuff I had forgotten. Also how, I took what I could from the education, but had to take their advice with a huge chunk of salt (smile).

But I think if I had been 18, I wouldn't be coming from the same place, and I'd have been taking myself way too seriously to see the hilarity in the situation.
In fact I liked the movie so much I preodered it!!!

[–] loyala 18 years ago

As a senior currently enrolled in a fine art photography program, I thought the critique scenes had been lifted out of classes I've attended this week.

To suggest that "his work sucked because there was nothing but talent behind it, not originality," leaves open the question of how one defines, both originality and talent. Since this movie is ostensibly a coming of age film, I'm not sure that I anticipate much originality out of a fellow student who hasn't had enough life experience to judge whether his or her work is really original. On the other hand, a lot of crap gets smeared onto paper in the name of art that is devoid of any talent.

My grandpa used to say, "Don't spend to much time in the outhouse or you'll start to think your *beep* doesn't have any stink." That may have been why he was a farmer working with his muscles rather than a painter working with his hands. I keep that penned to the back of my prints everytime I walk into a critique.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] WVfilmfem 18 years ago

I have been an "art student" all my life, and so I appreciated this film for its portrayal of art faculty (the John Malkovich character could have been based entirely on the painting professor at my current college where I'm enrolled in grad school!).

It's all BS really, and subjectivity to the extreme, sitting thru critiques.

This film is dead on, right on, about being an art student.

[–] Dannyramone86 18 years ago

This movie is amazing. It pokes a lot of fun at how art school really tends to be. As a film student at a small arts school. I've found that much of what is thrown around in the classroom is a load of bull. I remember feeling a lot like Jerome when lectures about Dada or abex art came up. I have basically come to the realization that no one under any circumstance should buy into a definition of what art is or isn't. It's what you make of it, and if you find something pleasing or stimulating in some way then it may as well be art to you. I really hate what goes on in art school.

[–] ilikemuggles 18 years ago

I got the impression that most people would know that this movie's portrayal wasn't accurate, just fun. But it seems some people are taking this crap in.

But it wasn't just fun, it was a satire of art schools in general. I don't know what college you're going to, but I thought that the movie was a good reflection (not without its clear exaggerations) of what art schools (and art in general) are like.

Jerome could have been painting as well as Picasso himself, but it wouldn't have mattered to his professors. The quality of his work had no impact on how well he was doing. Professors like Malkovich's character know absolutely nothing about art, are cynical and possibly jealous of students who actually throw themselves into their work (like Jerome seemed to at first, before he decided to just do whatever he thought that the professors would like). The irony is that an undercover cop becomes the toast of the town; someone who initially cares very little for what he's doing and knows nothing about art in general (basically, outsider art).

You're right, one would see a lot of works like Jerome's in a freshmen class, but that wouldn't have made for a good movie. The type of stuff that happened in Jerome's class would have been happening in senior classes and in graduate schools. The sad thing is that I've seen a lot worse than what was going on in the movie. Students are taught by untalented professors that art is nothing and therefore art is everything. You can photograph your genitals, glue pipe cleaners to a canvas, or de-moralize a serial killer for all the art world cares, so long as you don't actually learn anything.

[–] WVfilmfem 18 years ago

Yes, it's true and SAD! In undergrad school, I was victimized by a jealous female painting instructor, receiving a D, because she was interacting inappropriately with my then boyfriend (she was fresh out of grad school herself ...Indiana Univ.). I'm much older now, and once again in grad school in Fine Art, but still see the stereotypes in the art department at my university.

[–] brolinjdevine 18 years ago

I am an art student and this movie is a pretty good reflection of what people are really like. Full of it. Most people try very hard to be eccentric and they like things based on how they feel it will make them look.

[–] embracingsleep 18 years ago

I go to the Maryland Institute College for Art...this movie was dead-on! Especially those damn critiques where the students woul say good things about drawings that had no technical skill. Foundation year is by far the most WTF year when it comes to stereotypes and critiques.

[–] ninetymin 18 years ago

This movie is so realistic. I've taken a lot of art classes, and yes I can draw.

The most realistic part was the ugly male model walking around totally nude talking to people. Also another realistic part was when people would look at Jeromes drawings and NOT comment. Lots of strangeness in the art world, and this movie represented it well.

[–] WVfilmfem 18 years ago

LOL..."the ugly male model walking around nude!"

[–] marblemadness-2 18 years ago

You make a good point about the older male model. Back in my Drawing I class we had a guy who looked just like that. I didn't realize that was such a common thing, ha!

[–] danielh41 18 years ago

I've been modeling for art classes for 22 years, so I took some offense at the way the male model was portrayed in the movie. I imagine that something like his behavior could happen, especially with an art professor who didn't seem to give a damn about teaching (i.e. the John Malkovich character).

I was watching this with my wife, and when they showed the male model talking to the female student while basically waving his genitals at her eye level, my wife turned to me and said, "You don't do that, do you?" "Of course not," I told her. At most schools where I model, behavior like that would get you taken off the payroll. Most of us models take our jobs very seriously. I always wear a robe whenever I'm not on the stand, and I always treat everyone with respect.

[–] brolinjdevine 18 years ago

haha relax. It's a comedy. Sure you might not be a pervert. But some people are and it's funny.

[–] frogca 13 years ago

>I am an art student and this movie is a pretty good reflection of what people are really like. Full of it. Most people try very hard to be eccentric and they like things based on how they feel it will make them look.

I have to add my voice to the side that says, yes, this is a good portrayal of art school and the people you find there. In fact, it's a good portrayal of art school 25 years ago when I attended. Some things never change.

[–] buree_toes 18 years ago

well i dunno about you but i too am an art student but i thought this movie exellently portrayed the characters well...

from my POV there's the blowhard, the vegan, the mom, the over achiever, the brown noser, the nympho, and the teachers...

my art school actually has those people! lol

[–] quakquak99 18 years ago

I was a music major for one year before I changed my major, and I can tell you that the only difference there is the medium used. The attitudes are almost exactly the same.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] jacowium 17 years ago

Oh, you can swear! Better watch out for you then...