MovieChat Forums > The Woodsman (2005) Discussion > An interesting and controversial query.

An interesting and controversial query.

posted 4 years ago by TheMan18 (13020)
13 replies | jump to latest

Based on a lot of comments and reviews I have read on this film, I couldn't help but also wonder, how come there is actually a difference of attitudes here with regards to the subject of sexual abuse via underage offense and sexual abuse in terms of violence towards adults, and how come this movie for instance, even if people are still of course rightly against it, are generally less angry than in films that deal with such issue of abuse of adults?

And how come here people are allowed to even wonder if the likes of Walter are allowed to rehabilitate and return to society whereas in the other case people possibly rightly believe that such offenders could never be redeemed and should at best be locked up forever?

Also, in here I have seen people even ask if child sexual abuse is really that much worse than other forms of abuse and violence against children even if of course they are still very much against it but in the former case there is absolutely little desire of such people than to often treat the perpetrators as the worst form of irredeemable VILLAINS or in movies that look at it from legal positions etc, the incredibly despise-able criminal scum who cannot be forgiven etc, and many users often get involved also in very conflicting PERSONAL arguments on various orders of "How would you like it if x did y etc etc etc" or various reveal of somewhat complex but overall mean and very harsh slices of incredibly TRAGIC truths, and in some cases, like the "gender reversal" rare aspects, or if in ADDITION to also that used inappropriately for comedy (see "40 Days and 40 Nights" (2002) among other examples), anger from the other side and also wondering, in addition to "traditional" examples and revenge and villain-esque movie scenarios, stuff like how although yes we still want law and society but "Oh, how unfair double standard are" and well yes these are legitimate complains, but also we wonder why it all operates on this level and why people think like this and that and what causes it all? Thanks.

P.S. I think I MAY have some of those answers as well, but will tackle them later, thank you.

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 4 years ago

Also, its true that in that one example with adult victims and adult perpetrators, there are indeed harsh and uncomfortable truths no doubt, but even without the internet and with it too, I have ALSO had heard and seen people display well very angry attitudes, I in no way even remotely want to suggest that they were "exaggerated" let alone "wrong", just wonder why in movies for instance, there seems to be difference of attitudes, and why a movie like this can welcome legitimately a question of whether someone like Walter who was guilty of being a child molester can be welcomed back into society after serving his time but not or at least not so much with adult victims themes etc of such abuse.

I also sometimes wonder, in addition to all of that, can we place ALL forms of violence, "bad deeds", abuse, rights violation etc on the same or similar level of badness, or must we really divide things and also see one particular example as a "special crime" and have people claim without necessarily being corrected "No you're wrong" that it is either on par or worse than murder? And the child abuse as such like here?

[–] GretchenRoss (72) 4 years ago

I gotta be honest with you, I read all of this four times and I don't even know what you're saying or asking.

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 4 years ago

It was a question of people's attitudes and to movies that depict various victims of misdeeds of a sexual nature.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Are you saying you're a pedophile?

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 4 years ago

Of course not, don't be silly.

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 4 years ago

And also a question of why a movie like this that is also somehow able to at least explore the former child molester's potential redeeming qualities is able to respectably find an understanding among audiences as opposed to say unilaterally agreeing that he is a dangerous and evil villain who should be destroyed?

[–] cyberbob (3488) 3 years ago

I think movies like this are necessary. It doesn't treat the main character as a victim, but it doesn't treat him like an absolute monster either

In terms of people's attitudes toward the film, frankly I think sometimes you cannot put much stock into what the masses are saying about highly controversial topics

I don't see the main character as unrealistic. I think in some cases child molestors ARE going to be remorseless, but it can't be impossible that in some cases they aren't. Some people view a movie like this, and they automatically assume the worst. That it's pedophile propaganda

Ok, I dunno what to say to those people. What I do know is that Kevin Bacon, Kyra Sedgewick, Mos Def, Michael Shannon, etc. all read the script and decided that it was a movie worth making. That it's not promoting a gross, abominable message

Is sexually abusing a child actually worse than beating a child? I have no idea. I guess that seems to be what people usually think. It's such a taboo subject that I doubt many people actively give this comparison much thought

I don't think pedophiles are necessarily irredeemable villains. A person cannot control intrusive thoughts, but they can control whether or not to act on those thoughts. And if a person DOES act on those thoughts, are they then beyond redemption?

These are thorny issues. You won't get a good discussion about these sorts of ideas on movie boards, tbh. Because these are questions that would require more in-depth ethical discussions, and most people who want to talk about movies aren't looking for in depth philosophical discussions about right or wrong in regards to what I would say is maybe the single most taboo subject that exists

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 3 years ago

Just this -
"Is sexually abusing a child actually worse than beating a child? I have no idea"
I would say that in terms of it being worse than beating, I would argue yes it is, because the psychological and mental consequences of the former are definitely more severe than the latter.

Its like many adults would consider sexual abuse against them worse than a simple act of physical violence.

Is either case worse than murder?

And is there one correct and right answer to all of this regardless of what others may think or more especially - what emotional stance and "taboo" might be placed on it, rightly or even just because people cannot help it, not counting the opposite extreme sides of course as they are horrifying in and of itself.

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 3 years ago

Besides, I rarely hear about people either getting or potentially getting long prison sentences, if caught and proven guilty that is by law, for simply beating a child or beating someone up here or there, and while there can and always are exceptions, I also rarely heard most rational people put the two acts on same or similar levels.

And for the very most part, I don't think I have seen films that depict violent revenge scenarios against perpetrators who simply beat people up, even if their violent acts have sometimes crippled or on some occasions, accidentally or otherwise, killed their victims.

P.S. Maybe it is simply HUMAN NATURE to look at various sexual matters or even sexual crimes and taboos as such in a very SPECIFIC way that affects the mind set more than other physical violence or even murder does, and maybe in and of itself it is neither wrong or right but just the way we are, correct?

[–] cyberbob (3488) 3 years ago

I agree that sexual abuse is more traumatic than physical abuse, generally speaking. But that's sort of what this movie deals with, is the ugly details of exploring these questions

My point is that you can't really explore these sorts of stomach-churning questions in detail without treating them basically as an accountant treats tax questions. You're asking whether sexual molestation is considered worse than murder, no normal person could answer that without heavy emotional bias

And that's not a bad thing, I think. I mean, we're talking about child molestation. There's a reason why it's so taboo and it's probably because humans evolved some instinct for what ought to be the most taboo. But that's not an argument rooted in rationality, and that's what I mean when I say that you can't really have this kind of discussion in a movie board. It's a discussion which basically requires putting your humanity on pause for the sake of philosophical purity

[–] TheMan18 (13020) a year ago

"that you can't really have this kind of discussion in a movie board."

But people do it ALL THE TIME, discuss these things ON movie boards without, you know, worrying too much about taboos etc. Plus, we're all people, what difference if any does it make WHERE we discuss it all?

[–] TheMan18 (13020) a year ago

"no normal person could answer that without heavy emotional bias"
Maybe there is factual evidence behind it though.

[–] TheMan18 (13020) a year ago

Some people also rightfully or otherwise BLEND IN with theoretical aura of morality that they feel is both convenient and extremely morally right. It may not be perfect rationality but it is along those lines as well.