Why is Gabriel a girl and not a dude? - Constantine (2005) Discussion

[–] jamesmary3 14 years ago

Angles, in at least one interpenetration that is, are described as sexless.

If this was what the director was shooting for, IMHO Tilda as Gabriel was the embodiment of androgyny.

Then again that's just my opinion. What the hell do I know,..

reply

[–] trevor-136 14 years ago

Interpenetrating angles?? Are you a mathematician? ;)

reply

[–] jejozi 13 years ago

She does look like a 12 year-old boy, doesn't she?

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

reply

[–] PDXoriginal 14 years ago

Tilda Swinton has no problem passing as a dude, so it is ok.

reply

[–] GrifterZed 14 years ago

Haha, no kidding. But, this did bother me. And yes, "Angels" are androgenous. However, Arch-Angels are basically the lowest form of Angel, and are even personally named, presumably by god. Whereas Seraphim, other higher Angels, etc... I've never heard of being named. Therefore, I conclude, that the Arch-Angels Michael and Gabriel are in fact of masculine origin. Hence, I am terribly irritated by the fact that Gabriel was played by Tilda Swinton. Subsequently, I am also terribly irritated by Tilda Swinton, but that has no bearing on the first fact.

reply

[–] deianj2001 14 years ago

some people have said about them, that they have several sexes, and have appeared so in some media, some as asexual beings, in other forms of media, it's just different interpretations of the same fable to me

reply

[–] bchow 14 years ago

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

Archangels are high ranking angels. Seraphim are of much lower rank.

reply

[–] DemonJuju-881-963627 12 years ago

Nope

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_angelic_hierarchy

reply

[–] MajesoFormo 12 years ago

Your reading that wrong, the spheres do not designate importance as if one is more important than the other. The spheres are merely for organizational purposes, much like branches of the military, one does not have more power than the other. Much like the military each sphere has generals known as archangels, so no archangels are not the lowest form of angel, just because their described in english in the third sphere, archangels are present in each sphere.

START THE REVOLUTION! SHRED THE GOVERNMENT! My favorite movie is V for Vendetta.
BridgetTheFish

reply

[–] king_of_bob 11 years ago

You read that article wrong. Being listed first does not mean they were the highest order. The word "Archangel" literally translates to "Chief Angel."

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

reply

[–] king_of_bob 11 years ago

However, Arch-Angels are basically the lowest form of Angel, and are even personally named, presumably by god.

That is COMPLETELY wrong. Arch Angels are the highest form of Angel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_angelic_hierarchy

Specifically: The word "archangel" comes from the Greek ἀρχάγγελος (archangělǒs), meaning chief angel

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

reply

[–] faithless0415 11 years ago

Arch-Angels are the LOWEST form of angel?? In which particular angelic tradition? The prefix "arch-" is DEFINED as "chief or highest". Arch-rival, arch-villain, archbishop, arch-conservative, etc. Gabriel has always been considered one of the HIGHEST ranking angels in every tradition I've run across that mentions him (er, "it"). That's actually the confusing bit, since it was stated several times in the movie that only the half-breeds are allowed to be on earth. The traditional Gabriel is all angel, so who's Tilda playing? Gabriel Jr.?

reply

[–] Morlock-Mike 14 years ago

I think in casting Tilda Swinton as Gabriel, the director was most certainly going for androgyny. Perhaps a more interesting question would be, why does Gabriel, in this movie, happen to look a great deal like Lucifer does in the Sandman comic series (a series that was published by DC/Vertigo, just so happened to do a number of crossovers with the John Constantine character and occupies the same universe as Hellblazer).

reply

[–] animesh-kapoor 14 years ago

the director was going for the Michaelangelo's paintings and statue kind of look, they are very masculine angels but with quite feminine faces, as in the bible they are often described as very awesome/beautiful, almost statue like, and tilda swinton did a wonderful job portraying a genderless being, go and type on google Michaelangelo's angel , something like this

http://www.bluechillies.com/screenshot/40752.html

reply

[–] inspired-kiwi 14 years ago

Yes, Tilda is probably one of the few actors that can pull of androgeny, they even seemed to have her chest bound to make her less feminine.

reply

[–] himiyio 14 years ago

that's because michaelangelo and most of the great masters actually drew boys and men, and then added the breasts or hair to make them feminine. it is a known fact, their models were mostly men, preferred because most of the artists themselves were homosexuals.

in reference to the old scriptures, angels were beings of light. so if you were to take that literally, they would even have no form, much less sex. but then again, angels are metaphors. so, any interpretations are valid.

reply

[–] bsharporflat 12 years ago

Angels and demons do not have genitals in their higher plane of existence. But if they take human form they gotta have something down there. That's part of being human. Since part of being a demon is having sex with humans, they either took a male form (incubus) or female form (succubus) depending on their mood or evil intentions.

Still, angels and certain other demi-gods (like Dionysus) were given androgynous status by the mythmakers to mark them as higher beings; not quite as animalistic as hairy ape, manly men or as voluputous, bovine womanly women.

In some ancient societies, androgynous people (male and female) were actually revered as somewhat spiritually advanced people rather than being persecuted.

reply

[–] reaseltbim 11 years ago

actually if you watch Dogma they show an angel with his pants down and he looks like a Ken Doll down there

reply

[–] king_of_bob 11 years ago

But if they take human form they gotta have something down there. That's part of being human.

Except they aren't human. Putting on a human mask doesn't make them human. They don't "gotta" have anything.

Since part of being a demon is having sex with humans, they either took a male form (incubus) or female form (succubus) depending on their mood or evil intentions.

Those are specific demonic entities not originating from the Judeo-Christian mythology. So you mentioning them makes no sense. You're mixing mythologies here.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

reply

[–] e-tiggy 12 years ago

I too believe inpiration for the Gabriel character's appearance come from medieval christian paintings, this Guido Reni piece seems especially similar to the confrontation between Gabriel and Constantine.
Tilda Swinton's Gabriel is a dead ringer for Reni's Michael.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Guido_Reni_031.jpg

reply

[–] GunsGirlsCars 12 years ago

Looked up your question in my stack of Angels books. I come up with "Folly's of God" which to Jewish scholars means constructs and nothing more? Note: I put a question mark so as not to get into it!

reply

[–] carlie1964 12 years ago

I love how people write like they really KNOW what angels look like. NO ONE knows.

Want to change the world? Go home and love your family. Mother Teresa.

reply

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] king_of_bob 11 years ago

Gabriel is neither male nor female until it's made human in the end. Only then does it become a she. Angels are neither male nor female.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

reply

[–] raf-33 11 years ago

Angels are believed to be androgynous, other than Tilda (the embodiment of androgyny) I don't know anyone that could have better played Gabrielle. Maybe Alice Krige or Cate Blanchett, but only if Tilda refused to appear.

You don't know sh!t, Jon Snow!

reply