I think Elaine was a very sympathetic character. Her husband was passive-aggressive and she was a scapegoat. He was more of a pal (ahem) than a father and you wonder how these boys were really tied to him. She couldn't win. I felt so bad for her. She was made to feel she wasn't part of the boys' club. Her only mistake was marrying a man who was totally wrong for her and he was totally wrong to be anyone's husband. If he was young today, he would've lived his life as an openly gay man. He was in a completely dysfunctional relationship with his mother and brother and saw things as a child that changed him forever. Poor Elaine is the real victim here though. She chose the wrong man and it made her so angry, she alienated everyone around her. In turn, she was hated. She just wanted to be a mother. She stayed with Arnold because of the children, plain and simple. She was freed once he and Jesse went to jail. Jesse was a victim too, but that's another story. I'm so glad she found a healthy relationship with a man she could love and she could be loved properly in return.
Sorry, but I can't agree with the sympathetic view of Mrs. Friedman. First off, marrying the wrong man does not make her a victim; it just means she made a mistake. I don't for one second believe she didn't have the nerve to ask for a divorce; she certainly showed plenty of chutzpah when she manipulated Arnold and Jesse both into pleading guilty, thereby ensuring that her failures as a wife and mother would not be exposed to public scrutiny through the process of a court trial. As for being made to feel that she wasn't a part of the boys' club, this remark betrays a profound incomprehension both of family dynamics and the differences between the sexes. Any family where the children are all male is going to seem like a frat house to the mother if she chooses to view it in that fashion. But what self-respecting mother who does not have an ulterior motive honestly wants to join in the testosterone-laden rough-housing? Rose Kennedy never seemed to feel it necessary to join in the sacrosanct Thanksgiving football games played by her sons and their cousins. A mother who is emotionally secure and not trying to play her sons off against their father will have no problem with "being excluded" from the male hijinks. Mrs. Friedman is a shallow, narcissistic and destructive woman who is most likely making her second husband's life a living hell even as we speak. Thank God she is past her childbearing years so that she won't be able to make any more babies to torment.
With respect, Elaine Friedman seemed to feel that by pleading guilty their sentences wouldn't have been as harsh. I respect her for her statement in which she said she couldn't just stand by Arnold if the allegations were correct. At least the woman was honest about it. I felt deeply for her. His "alleged" actions seemed to open up a wound which let her know that her whole married life had been a sham. With public humiliation, the inevitable collapse of her marriage and a lack of understanding from her sons, she obviously had a rough time. I too, am glad she has found happiness.
I cannot feel sympathy for a mother who expressed peace and relief after her innocent son is sent to prison. Elaine's reasons for pressuring her son into confessing to a crime he did not commit were completely selfish. (1) It was easier; (2) she wanted to shield herself; and (3) it allowed her to move on with her life.
Her behavior when she greeted Jesse at the door upon his day of release was sadistic. She opened and closed the door in his face twice before she allowed him to come in after opening the door a third time. Elaine lacks empathy and is a selfish person at best.
Have you somehow forgotten he was found guilty in a court of law?
Have you forgotten that nobody "forced" him to plead? I can tell you that if I were accused of such a tawdry crime and the prosecution didn't have excellent and irrefutable evidence against me --even if the evidence was 50:50, even 60:40-- I sure as hell would take my chances at a jury trial!
Heck, there are many who, even when faced with damning evidence but who strongly aver they are innocent, will never take a plea but insist upon a trial to proclaim that innocence far and wide!
There are parents who completely disown their progeny when they are accused of such heinous crimes. I would say she obviously, and IMO probably with good reason, being privy to the prosecutions evidence gathered from her own home; felt he was guilty and he aided, abetted & joined right in with her husbands predations upon many innocent children!
pressuring her son into confessing [...] (1) It was easier; (2) she wanted to shield herself; and (3) it allowed her to move on with her life.
The judicial system presented him with a dilemna. He weighed up the pros and cons and opted to plead. His choice happened to coincide with the suggestion of his mother - whom he would have loved to ignore, since he hated her. Your (1) was easier for Jesse more than anyone else. He would have been in the dock for hours, she for a few minutes. Ditto (2) (3): I don't think Jesse going to court and either getting off or getting life in jail would have stopped her getting on with her life. If anything the continuing alliance of her three sons would have accelerated the break.
Her behavior when she greeted Jesse at the door
It wasn't sadistic. You're forgetting that she voluntarily allowed the documentary maker to be in the apartment filming the moment. So she was planning all along to display sadism to the world? I believe there were some major involuntary palpitations going on there. You're also glossing over the fact that they were more than reconciled by the time the doc was screened. Which is to say that he came round to recognising her as the sentient human being she had been all along. reply share
"she manipulated Arnold and Jesse both into pleading guilty, thereby ensuring that her failures as a wife and mother would not be exposed to public scrutiny through the process of a court trial."
Arnold Friedman is an adult. Am I supposed to have sympathy for a grown man who is too stupid to know whether or not to enter a guilty plea? He was caught with child porn. Did you ever think that maybe she actually believed that a man who liked looking at child porn might also sexually abuse children? It has happened before, you know.
Do you beleive it possible that someone, anyone, might have child porn and NOT molest children. Hypocritical rubbish - how the movie director must flinch when he reads your words. Maybe you should stick with Tom Hanks movies.
I kept thinking, "Why are they yelling at Elaine? SHE'S not the one with the stash of kiddie porn that started this whole mess." There were other dysfunctional aspects of the family, of course, but that wasn't all her fault. It generally takes at least two people to create a dysfunctional relationship.
It irritated me when one of the sons (David?) was casting aspersions on her for not divorcing Arnold earlier, if she was so unhappy. Hello, idiot, she was probably trying to hold the family together for YOUR sake! I really don't think she was sticking around for the computer lessons.
Pardon me, but what exactly were "her failings as a wife and mother"?
That she couldn't turn her pedophilic husband into a sexually 'normal' man?
And how are you so sure she "manipulated" Arnold & Jesse into pleading guilty "thereby ensuring that her failures as a wife and mother would not be exposed to public scrutiny through the process of a court trial"? Is it not possible she appealed to whatever angels of their better nature were left to them so as to admit to what they did? Or that she finally knew the vast evidence --proof-- accrued against them and they would be better off pleading so as to receive a shorter sentence? (A plea deal will always, unless you have an idiot for an attorney, include a lesser sentence so the court will not have to expend an even greater deal of money for a trial. Not very 'moral' to put expense over a truly justified verdict, but that's our courts for you) She was a victim too, and instead of placing blame squarely and wholly upon the criminals where it ultimately belongs you're blaming said victim.
I agree with Kid McCabe that you mistakenly have identified Arnold Friedman as a gay man, which is not.
But more importantly, I also felt bad for Elaine. The hatred the boys had for their mother was disgusting. Their father was a child molestor, and all they could do was whine about their mother.
As for the way she behaved, I don't think most people really know how they would feel if their spouse was caught with massive ammounts of child pornography.
I was married to a child molester, and after finding child porn on our computer, I was understandably devastated and could certainly relate to Elaine Friedman in the film. As someone who's been in her shoes, I definitely felt her pain.
Elaine's isolation has a lot to do with group dimanics in times of crisis where there is pressure to think alike and disension is banished. The sons stood by their father and brother no matter what, as is to be expected. Elaine in the other hand, felt betrayed by Arnold and assumed the role of a victim. Their positions thus were irreconcilable.
I can not feel sympathy for her though. Although her position is understandable, is very selfish, she doesn't consider the family (she and her sons) and seems to be seeking only her own satisfaction. She wants the husband to pay for the betrayal, and pressures him to plead guilty. Arnold on the other hand, feels guilty and thinks he deserves to pay. What they do not realize is that a guilty plea by Arnold condemns Jesse automatically reducing the chances of a succesful trial. Thus her actions end up condenming both Arnold and Jesse.
Regarding true guilt on this case, the movie doesn't go deep enough into the details of the case. But for what they show the case seems to be built entirely on testimony coerced out of children after strenous interrogation. There is not a single piece of material evidence apart from the magazines. Add to that higly improbable allegations: hundreds of cases of sodomy going on for several years without anyone noting anything.
Why did Arnold plead guilty? Because he wasn't entirely innocent, he has felt guilty his whole life. He is a pedophile and has acted on it in the past, even if the particular allegations were not true, he feels he deserves to pay. Add to that the pressure from the lawyers and the wife for him to plea guilty and you have a very confused man.
You have to be kidding.....you have to be! I've never seen a woman in my life less deserving of sympathy than the mom. I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire. She's like so many other people that pollute the planet, they have no interests, they're not good at anything and yet they're the victim.
Any married couple will tell you that things change over the years, but not the love of the kids. In any normal household, both parents adore the kids and that's what keeps alot of marraiges together. Yet, this twat was so jealous, so jealous that she let her kid go to jail. If she had a backbone and wasn't a dish rag she could have helped. But like all self-centerd losers she just let things happen while she threw her hands in the air and said "What do you want me to do".
Maybe she loved her kids and her husband in the beginning, but came to find out here son and husband were pedophiles. It's a tough situation - some might say the love for a son should be unconditional, but her son and husband just committed one the most horrific acts know to human-kind. She didn't do the molesting - sure she could have notified the authorities etc, but the blame goes on the monsters that abused and had sex with little children. Jealous? of who? You're logic doesn't make sense to me.
Is it just me or does anybody else seem to find it quite disturbing that a mother who tries her best for her children gets more abuse from her children than the father who quite clearly is a peodophile, whether he molested the students or not? Why don't the boys ever express any kind of disgust for this in the movie???
How could she have saved her kid from going to jail?? He did it. He confessed to it on nationwide TV, confessed in the court, and there were witnesses, etc. She chose to punish the dad?? He made his bed and he had to sleep in it. She probably thought she was getting married to a well adjusted man, but ended up with a pedophile who got his family involved in his horrific acts. I don't see her as jealous. She probably knows why the son is siding with the father. When you're in a "relationship" with your father in that context, who is he going to side with? I don't know if she knew what was going on or maybe she had an hint here and there, and if she knew for sure she should have went to the authorities, but that is easier said than done when your husband of many years and your son are involved.
They don't express disgust because of the family relationships. The father was a pedophile who got his family involved, to what extent only they will know for sure, but when a man like that extends his influence - it can be very powerful. He didn't seem like a authoritative figure, but I think that was his way. Mild mannored to most and a threatening pedophile to his victims and possibly his family. They didn't express their disgust because they might not have been disgusted.
I do not believe this mother was an innocent. I don't think all your children have such intense dislike for you without there being some reason. Her husband admitted to molesting two boys at a summer home, having the porn, and there is a chance he might have molested all three of his sons. Whenever a parent claims they never knew about the abuse that is straight out BS. Something does not go on for that long without the parent choosing to stay in denial and let it happen, which can turn the child against that parent.
The whole family was messed up and I am sure she was a factor in that. Her husband didn't abuse her and so to claim that she was finally her own person after his being gone is ridiculous. As if she wasn't free before, yah right, she manages to get him to marry her, get him to plea bargain, etc, she had her own power too.
So nobody here thinks that it is possible that they were both innocent? I read that the director had more evidence on them being innocent and that the whole case was about hysteria and community dynamics, prejudice and so on. But he decided not to include this material in the film, because he thought that it would be more interesting that way.
I strongly believe that both were innocent. It seems that a lot of people believe Jesse was innocent, but still think Arnold was guilty. I find this curious. The evidence against both of them was identical. If one finds the evidence against Jesse to be problematic enough to conclude he was innocent, logic would necessitate that one draw the same conclusion about Arnold. Without question, Arnold was a pedophile who molested children in his past and purchased child pornography. However, in the absence of reliable evidence, we can not convict a person of a new crime based simply on their past behavior.
I also sympathised with the mother. Almost every old clip had the boys yelling at her and emotionally abusing her. She seemed like the type of woman who ends up in a bad relationship and feels powerless to get out of it. Even if she suspected that her husband was a pedophile she probably didn't know what to do. If she knew her sons were being abused and did nothing, then I have no sympathy for her.
I felt sympathy for Elaine, as well. They married young, probably before they really knew each other well, which was really pretty typical of those times. Over the course of their relationship, Elaine came to the realization that her husband wasn’t really into sex, or her. Then the cops find a huge stash of child porn behind the piano….it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. And seriously, how could you rationalize, and/or forgive that? After 20 years of marriage and three children, the betrayal is enormous, especially if she was at the point where she really didn’t like him much anymore, anyway.
That said….how could she NOT know something weird was going on with her husband? If my husband (if I had one, ahem) had an office that he was secretive about, why would she not try to figure out why? How could she overlook a huge stash of pornography—CHILD pornography—hidden behind the piano? Granted, the photos of the house showed that she wasn’t much of a housekeeper, but still. That was quite a bit of porn.
And also, if they were guilty of the crimes with which they were charged, how was it that Elaine never heard anything, never saw anything, and had no idea that these crimes were taking place for a number of years? Because Elaine seemed pretty forthcoming in her ideas about what happened and the psychology behind it, I think she would have spilled something if she knew there was abuse going on.
BUT! I am torn when it comes to deciding whether or not I think they did it. On the one hand, the father was an admitted pedophile. It is difficult for me to see how the father could reason that he was “saving” Jesse by pleading guilty. I can understand why his father’s guilty plea made Jesse feel trapped. But the thing that really shook my doubt about their innocence was Jesse’s 11th hour confession. Right before he is sentenced, he breaks down in front of the judge, admits that he is guilty, but says it’s because his father molested him. This is understandable—the victim wanting to gain favor with the abuser by helping him perpetrate the crimes—but it was strange that it came out at the last minute. He maintained his innocence up until the very end, and then he cracked and admitted guilt. Why? Because he thought the judge would feel pity for him? I would have reasoned it would be just the opposite. By maintaining his innocence, it leaves that little shadow of doubt. Who really knows? I don’t think we’ll ever know.
And Jesse’s lawyer was a sleazy opportunist who deserves to be bitch-slapped.
'That said….how could she NOT know something weird was going on with her husband? If my husband (if I had one, ahem) had an office that he was secretive about, why would she not try to figure out why? How could she overlook a huge stash of pornography—CHILD pornography—hidden behind the piano? Granted, the photos of the house showed that she wasn’t much of a housekeeper, but still. That was quite a bit of porn. ' Yinky
I disagree with this, I've met and spoken with many people in the course of my job who have been married to child abusers and have had no idea. They've looked back in hindsight and seen 'signs' but at the time, when you're married to someone for 20 years the last thing you're going to think is that they are capable of child abuse.
Also Yinky you say how would she not have seen the 'huge stash of child porn'. But in the film the pornography was described by the officers involved in the case, when you look at the photos of the house which they took during the search there is nothing seen in open view.
I do have sympathy for Elaine because although I don't think she was the best mother in the world, it seems that Arnold had such a hold of on his sons that they seem to take his side automatically. David is a prime example of this, it seems it was his hatred of his mother that made him stand by his father despite the evidence that his dad was a a paedophile.
I find it interesting that Seth declined to take part in the film
Jealous of the relationship the dad's had with her son's. It was obvious that the son's had hostility towards the mom. I do remember though when Jesse was released from prison he and his mom were both overjoyed. It's been awhile since I posted but the movie had a real impact on me. It was so personal and the characters were people I was familiar with growing up. Fortunately the family I knew that reminded me of the Freidman's all over came their problems and went on to great things.
When I was watching the movie, I was thinking, "There are no handbooks written about what to do when faced with this situation." We were looking at a highly stressful situation which was causing the breakup of the family.
Given the high divorce rate, people often break up families in less extreme situations.
Additionally, when watching the home movies, I was seeing Elaine giving birthday parties, taking her kids to "Safari Land," helping one son with reading, etc. She did put a lot of work into being a mother.
The family was out of balance. Dad was probably not the disciplinarian, but the buddy to the boys. Mom was probably given the less popular task of being the bad cop.
You know, none of the people in this family were terribly sympathetic. They all seemed to indulge in a lot of narcissism, playing the victim or just throwing their hands up in frustration and jumping into deep denial-land.
However, out of all these folks, the one that scared me the most wasn't Arnold who, after being caught, made some interesting and sympathetic attempts towards taking a moral inventory and fessing up to stuff that had probably been eating him alive for years.
Jesse was a follower and a little bit dim. His social awkwardness was so painful to watch especially when he allowed his pushy older brother David to convince him to try and while away some time before sentencing by mugging for the video camera in full view of the victims families. None of the boys seemed have a grasp of how odd and creepy their clowning appeared to be to outsiders. The forced levity at home too was beyond bizarre.
This leads me to the scariest dude in the movie - The Angry, Angry Clown who is so filled with resentment that he looks like he might go postal with an automatic weapon in the middle of a Magic Shop! David Friedman is one truly frightening man and I mean, aside from all the weird acting out with his alternate personas. Watching him contort his face in mock incredulity and then in pantomime horror accompanied by his verbal histrionics on tape were sickening. His voyeristic behavior with the camera.. ugh!
And then, the way he acted as the ring-leader of abuse towards Elaine.. that was astounding. All that unabashed mommy-hatred on display. Sure, Elaine was a cold mother who admitted to being emotionally troubled and unprepared for motherhood. AT times, you can see on her face, an expression contradicting her statement that she had no idea Arnold wasn't "normal" when they were younger. She knew. She just covered her ears and eyes. Is that bad mothering - yes. Does it explain David's verbal and emotional abuse of her as displayed on the home videos and audio tapes - no way in hell.
David's hysterical denials of his father's admitted guilt also struck me as deeply troubling. The way he minimized the child porn and his dad's saying he touched a boy in a sexual way or innapropriate way, I forget which - he chalked it all up to viewers, prosecutors and non-Friedman boys just not "getting" their particular humor, tastes in art and such. Yeah.. I'd say so. If David thinks his Dad's Child Porn was art and that touching a friend's minor child is just harmless fun, I have to wonder what level of dysfunction or criminal sex abuse would it take to get him to see anything beyond "innocent fun".
The whole film gave me the creeps and not just the family!
AT times, you can see on her face, an expression contradicting her statement that she had no idea Arnold wasn't "normal" when they were younger. She knew. _____________________
Excellent post, Daverat. I agree with everything you said. For a minute I thought you were going to say Elaine was the scariest family member but I'm with you in giving that particular honor to David. I actually found Elaine to be the most sympathetic family member - partly because she was the target of so much anger and hatred that, to me, seemed misplaced, whatever her flaws as a mother may have been.
I'm curious about your comment about Elaine's expressions though. Can you point out any particular parts in the movie where her expressions showed she knew Arnold wasn't normal? I'm not doubting you at all - I'm just interested to go back and see for myself. Her face was very expressive but I think I missed the ones you are talking about, or at least didn't pick up on their significance.
There are times when Elaine is saying something and she looks up and to the side which is a common "tell" that indicates people do not fully believe what they are saying or they don't have confidence in what they are stating. Some Police folks will tell you it means the person is consciously lying but I don't believe that is always the case. They could be lying but when you see somebody being interviewed about their own life, especially with regard to traumatic events, you can tell when they are confident of their account and when they aren't. Watch her when she talks. She sometimes grimaces too or wrinkles her nose, indicating disgust.
Now David, he actually bares his teeth momentarily once or twice while talking/shouting. That was telling! Jesse, on the other hand, is more like his mother - he looks up and away but instead of the grimace of disgust, he purses his lips indicating stress. people will often purse their lips and "knit"their eyebrows just before they cry. What the pursed lips mean with Jesse, I can't say. He's a hard read as an adult. The film of the younger Jesse shows a frightened, socially awkward and intimidated teen.
Next time you watch the film, look for these involuntary facial expressions all the interviewees make. We all make them. We can't help it.
Just to test this out, video yourself telling a story about your past that makes you a little uncomfortable - maybe something that happened to you that you are still not entirely sure of all the details. Tell the story to a person filming you and then play it back. Watch for the times you look up, look up and to the side, pause for breath for longer than usual, if you fold your arms to self-comfort, purse or press your lips together tightly and so on. You might be surprised to see how obvious your own discomfort is at certain points in the telling.
There are also "tells" we do that exude confidence and yet another set that exude aggression. Gesticulating with your hands can indicate both. Look at David when he points or waves his hands. If you didn't see his face with the bugged out eyes and bared teeth, you might think he was telling a funny story. When you marry up the pointing he does and the dramatic gestures with those facial expressions that reveal anger and aggression, you see how he is trying to command the space around him. he's saying "listen to me goddammit, I'm telling you something you had better believe". it's scary!
"Daverat" your insights were so refined and penetrating that I feel like I just watched part two. These people frighten me for one reason, I know them. No not the "Friedman's" but people I grew up with. Egomanic's that couldn't believe the world didn't revolve around them. Anytime they felt as though people were no longer paying attention, they'd be right back in your grill.
It's rare that you read a post as well written as yours. Peace
There are some very thorough and interesting posts. But I think it can be very easy to overlook the fact that this is a very very sad situation, for all involved. The children obviously grew up in a very unstable home, so how could someone like David, for example deal with his anger/trauma, etc in a healthy way. He probably has no idea how to do so.
I'm not defending treating people terribly and abuse, but we need to acknowledge that when people are sick or not functioning at full mental capacity, perhaps we cannot understand. This seems like an awful situation for all involved whether the parties were guilty or not. I cried so hard from this. It really got to me, and really bothered me, especially how David is obviously not dealing with any of it in a healthy way.
I just finished this film, and I knew right from the first interview with Elaine that she wasn't being honest. It's obvious from her mannerisms and pauses. I have zero sympathy for her and consider her a bigger monster than the rest of her family.
She knew from the start of the marriage Arnold wasn't right in the head, and soon after probably learned of his pedophilia. I also have the strong belief that she knew and turned a blind eye to Arnold's molestation of his own kids. How can you be a housewife with no life and never discover/walk in on your sick husband doing something he shouldn't be doing with one or more of his boys?
I have sympathy for her children only. The way they turned out (1 in prison, 1 a clown, 1 out of the picture, all raped by their father) is a direct result of her refusal to act early on.
You consider the person that didn't have sex with little children a bigger monster then those that were convicted of abusing little boys? Interesting concept. If she knew about it and did nothing - then she is part of the problem - but a bigger monster than the acutal abusers? - I strongly disagree with you on that.
Take into account - if she found out the person she married and loved - turned out to be a pedophile - I'm sure psycholocially - denial would be a possible outcome.
As for walking in on it - I do believe it's possible she never walked in on it. If they didn't want her to find out - they would do it in places and times - she wasn't going to go. Pedophiles can be experts at hiding their abuse from others. She could have been a victim as well - not of the physical abuse - but mental. She seemed isolated and distant and at points they didn't seem to consider part of the family.
Daverat, I'm egotistical enough to believe people want to read what I write, but your analysis is so thorough I have very little to add. I agree with everything you wrote. I'll just post a few additional random thoughts.
1. While not in the documentary, the most telling moment about the Angry, Angry Clown is in the special features when defense attorney Peter Panero confronts David Friedman at the film's debut. Panero tells Angry Clown his blatant lies really aren't helping his brother Jesse. Cornered, David shuts up for one of the few times in the film. The camera starts to pull away and Angry Clown's eyes momentarily narrow in frustrated rage. There is no obvious concern for Jesse, but there is seething anger that someone has called him on the carpet.
2. There is nothing very sympathetic about Elaine. I'll take her word that she knew nothing of the molestations. Nonetheless, the only aspect of the child abuse that concerns Elaine is how it will impact...Elaine. As you wrote, everyone in the film suffers from narcissism, but Elaine has the worst case of it.
3. This documentary is Exhibit A in why some folks should not breed.
Even though some pedophiles may have a decided preference towards one certain gender, in the huge majority of situations they will, when unable to find a child of their preferred gender, if available to them they will molest/abuse/rape the a other gender! Although gender does play a part in many (but not all -- some are 'equal opportunity' molesters *hurl*) pedophiles, you must understand that the primary focus of a pedophile is contained within its very definition:
sexual attraction towards Children!
IMO Arnie, if given a choice between an adult male (even one just 'of age': 17-18 or so) and an adolescent girl, I verry strongly feel he'd pick the young girl, certainly not the adult male.
Don't you?
But yes, it's a terrible thing Elaine had to put up with; not only finding out her husbands a pedophile, but the decades of alienation and arrogance with which he treated her.
The entire story is horrific, and absolutely nobody in that family --nor of course, the victims nor their families-- wins; just abuse all around
and all just for the sake of his 'getting off'. Absolutely sickening.
It wasn't because she didn't support Arnold. I can understand her anger towards him. He was after all the reason why the whole mess started in the first place. Even though I believe him to be innocent of the charges that sent him to jail ( I find it hard to believe that for so many years and between so many children, no one suspected anything until the police felt Arnold must have been sodomizing children on a regular basis because he just happened to have child porn AND teach a class in his home at the same time - that's irresponsible and malicious thought process if I ever saw one), he did have the porn and he was, by his own admission, a peadophile, having acted on his impulse at least twice in his adult life. I don't blame her for not having any sympathy for him.
But to say that once your child, your own child who you've convinced to plead guilty even though it's pretty obvious he's innocent, goes to jail for 18 YEARS, you felt at peace ... that to me is unforgivable. I can't imagine any good and decent parent saying that. Having your child in that enviorment is hell on earth, certainly not peaceful. Then to let him go alone on the day he goes to jail, go on to remarry, live happily and shut the door in his face 13 years later when he's relased not one, BUT 3 times ... that's just nuts. Certainly not worthy of my sympathy and concern.
Yes, Arnold hurt her and the family but so did she by her indiference and lack of empathy. yes, David was immature and abusive towards her but I think his reaction was fully deserved because of the way she behaved.
This mother watched her son get convicted and CONFESS on TV and in the courts to what many would call the most horrific crime a human could possibly commit. You say it's obvious he's innocent - I don't know if you're basing that on the director’s version of events - his confession on TV - or something else. Either way - he was convicted and confessed to these actions and the mother had to endure this monstrosity. Maybe by declaring she was at peace - she was declaring that justice was served and these rapes of children wouldn't be happening again - at least by these two prisoners. I don't know what she was thinking of - but all I can do is put myself in her place - and if my son and/or spouse admitted to raping children - I would not be all lovey dovey and hope they don't have to pay the price of the crimes they committed. Let's face it - convicted child rapists have it easy compared to their victims. I don't think any punishment would make up for the abuse they served on their victims and maybe this mother felt the same way - son or not. As for her lack of empathy - what are you talking about - her family was convicted of child abuse - who should she have empathy for - the abusers or the victims. Once again - I wasn't there and can't tell you what happened and/or what the mom was feeling - but all I do know is what I saw/read about the crimes, the confession, and try to understand it.
I don't really see why you seem so sure that he was guilty. Aside from his admission, which I grant you is a big thing but was done after a very long, painful and terrifing trial, at the constant pressure of his mother and lawyer and by an 18 year old who was scared out of his mind he was going to spend the rest of his life in jail - that is why I really don't put too much value on his confession, there is really no proof of the rapes and especially of his involvment in them, if they did occur. There were a lot of people who said a lot of things to the police generated by some sort of mass hysteria. Generally when people are questioned by the police they tend to give them the answer they want to hear which is why the officers have to be very carreful of how they formulate their questions. These particular officers just went around and told kids: I know Mr. Friedman raped you, now tell me all about it.
But coming back to the subject, mothers are hard wired to believe the best of their childern so I can't really have any sympathy for a mother that thinks the wrost of her son even if there is no proof and refuses to fight for him.
Have you read the transcripts of his confession from Geraldo and/or court? His Geraldo confession was very specific and detailed many aspects of the crimes. Here are some of the specifics.
According to the transcripts he actually corrects Geraldo saying it was worse than what he is saying and goes into detail. There is no reason to go that far if you're just looking for some sympathy IMO.
You don't put much value into his confession? I find that interesting because I do - especially when it as detailed and specific as his was.
Have you read what the victims state about the crimes now?
Not only that but wasn't there a third defendant who implicated them?
Did he pass or fail his lie detector tests? You can dismiss multiple confessions and/or statements of other defendants implicating them and/or testimony from the numerous victims but I can't.
He was guilty first because he confessed to a guilty plea - didn't he? That would make him guilty. Second - after analyzing the proceedings, the confessions, the victims side as children and as adults, the statements of the third defendant's implications, I formed an opinion. We weren't there and the only people that know what happened are the victims, monsters, and any witness that were there. The only thing an outsider can do is use the information the courts had and any other information that has come out.
just one thing: confessing to a guilty plea makes you guilty in so far as the law is concerned. Whether or not you are really guilty of the crime you're confessing to is a different matter. So yes, he was guilty in the leagal way but I'm not so sure he was quilty in the truest sense of the word.
But as you say, all we can do is judge for ourselves and give an opinion. We weren't there so we can't ever know what truly happened.
confessing to a guilty plea is a legal matter - I agree - but I also gave a second reason why - which wasn't a legal matter but an opinion formed from many aspects of the case - including he confession outside of court just to name one aspect.
I only talked about the legal aspect because that is what I had issues with. The rest of your comment was your opinion on the case, based on your research and the thought you put into it. I wouldn't think of questioning that.