MovieChat Forums > Haute tension (2005) Discussion > Why The Twist Is Not Stupid

Why The Twist Is Not Stupid

posted 13 years ago by wwmcfar
35 replies | jump to latest

POSSIBLE SPOILERS

For the record this film is an excellent slasher horror with extreme violence which doesn’t deny the true visceral brutality of the violence it depicts like so many Hollywood productions do.

Many people reviewing or posting on forums about this film say the twist is stupid because many of the events depicted such as the car chase or service station scenes are impossible in hindsight after the twist is revelled but this is simply not true.

What they need to realise is that everything that happens in the film is subject to the fantasy interpretation of reality of the protagonist and that very little of what is depicted on screen actually happens. It is the demented hero fantasy of an infatuated and fractured psyche where two personalities exist concurrently but only one has control at any one time.

This is why the impossibilities don’t matter because they NEVER HAPPENED. The car chase and crash never happened, the service station scene did not happen the way she imagined it and many of her injuries were probably self-inflicted. Also the severed head fallatio scene is the conception in Marie’s mind of a killer so depraved that he would brutally slay an entire family to have the woman she loves thus making her Alexia’s saviour not her abductor.

I hope this has cleared things up for those without imagination.

[–] TheLogicalDan 13 years ago

I think the reason most people thought the twist was stupid was because of that very reason. Most of the stuff NEVER HAPPENED. Which was pretty lame.

Keep your hopes up high and your head down low.

[–] georgegates 13 years ago

are you a moron? what do you think cuts in her face aligning with the events at the very end mean, next to the worries of the women that her EX-friend can't see her.

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Life's too short for mediocrity.

[–] kdp90125 12 years ago

You could easily say that about The Usual Suspects but thats considered a classic now - personally the unreliable narrator twist is better than the its all just dream twist which I really thought they would do - she does talk about her dreams at the start---an enjoyable film if you ignore a few things

[–] fatpie42 10 years ago

The whole of "The Usual Suspects" takes place in an interview room. The interviewer is still being told that story whether it is true or not. He even doubts its truth as the story is told, so the unreliable narrator isn't really the twist.

In "High Tension", none of the film is being told as a story. We are being shown it as if it really happens. We have one protagonist and we are fearing for her life as she is hunted down by a violent killer. The twist doesn't simply mean she was lying to somebody. It means the film was lying to us.

Look, I KNOW the film isn't real, okay? It's a film. It's entertainment. That's fine. But when the storyteller stops and says "but yeah, obviously none of it's real", that isn't clever!

We finish the movie with no clue as to what has happened in the film because we have no real idea what motivated the protagonist to do any of this. Oh, so she's a lesbian. So what? What has that got to do with anything I just watched? When the motivations make no sense, that is a problem.

[–] paul_cowsill 9 years ago

Sorry to break it to you, but Norma Bates did not kill Lily Crane in the shower. SPOILER It was actually Norman in her dress. Or perhaps he imagined it in the mental institution.

I'm sorry the Coen brothers don't direct the porn I watch. They're hard to get ahold of, okay?

[–] gold_nava17 13 years ago

When i started watching this movie i thought it was stupid, but with the twist at the end everything turned out great!

[–] bravhart_1 13 years ago

The chase scene was jacked up and so were most of the other valid points your choosing to overlook for the benefit of a crappy script. By your logic we could easily say that she was in the mental institution the whole time and imagined everything. Maybe after she masturbated with the head she was pulled over by the cops and they found 30 more heads in the van and taken to a mental asylum where she day dreamed everything. See if I can pull a bs story outta my ass and make it jive with this movie line according to whats not said or shown in the script its crappy direction and writing.

What I`m trying to say is if its not shown in the movie then it didnt happen. If there are too many holes that's bad writing and bad movie making. I`m all for letting the audience make interpretations but in the case of this movie they gave us nothing to try and make sense of.

[–] DOPE-cinema 13 years ago

No, you can't say that because in the movie you see Alex at the end, so clearly the slaughter of her family and her kidnapping did take place. Just not how Marie described it.

I'm Eli Goldsworthy and I approve this message.

[–] bravhart_1 13 years ago

Nope! All in her head. Alex never existed. See thats what I`m trying to say. There are so many holes that there is no direction in which to interpret what we are seeing. Thats bad movie writing.

[–] CaliManDan35 13 years ago

^^^ NOPE! You are actually wrong. Alex did exist. But nice try.

[–] bravhart_1 13 years ago

Your not getting my point Caliman. My point is there are so many holes that you can interpret anything from them. That's bad movie writing. Free interpretation is a great thing but the director/writer has to give you a valid path to interpret. In this movie there were none. This movie would have been 100 percent better if it had just stayed with the rescue, fightback plot which is what I think was the goal until the director was bitch smacked by the good idea fairy. Sorry bro. Its was a crappy movie.

[–] CaliManDan35 13 years ago

I get your point, but I disagree with it. Yes there are plot holes until you realize that this entire story is being told from the mind of a crazy person. Obviously psychotic people are not all there in the head and their stories don't always match up. Once you realize that then there aren't anymore plotholes because a lot of what you see on screen that doesn't make sense didn't actually happen. You can call that poor writing if you want, but one thing it is not is plothole central.

The only things we see that actually happened and are not being told by Marie are the surveillance footage of her killing Jimmy and of the end when she's in the hospital because at that point her story is not being told anymore. That's when we see Alex visit her, and therefore we know that Alex is real and does exist.

[–] fatpie42 10 years ago

"Well she's insane isn't she?" is a totally LAME explanation.

Heck, even "Psycho" has a genuine psychological explanation. It doesn't just say "well he's a 'Psycho' donchaknow!"

This girl, what, loves another girl so much that she's stolen a truck and massacred the girl's family? And then presumably she's dissociating from what she is doing? So it's a psychotic break, yeah?

Okay, I still have no idea why she's doing this. And you are right. In the end the only explanation is "well she's crazy, so you can't expect logical reasoning". Even madness generally involves some internal logic and here there is none to be found.

[–] JackAteSally 9 years ago

You're ignorant.

"Oh... I'm not afraid."
-Pamela Vorhees

[–] tobtobtob 13 years ago

I totally agree with you on that last point. But there are reasons for this really really bad twist!

The director obviously read 'Intensity' by Dean Koontz (btw one of the best thrillers ever written), and thought 'Damn that would make a great movie'. Dean Koontz has a real good way of painting scenes with words, so when you read it you practically see the movie before your eyes. So he took the first half of the book (almost word by word/scene by scene) aded a little more gore but didn't really capture the caracter of the killer... So now he is at the car chase, a really important turning point in the book, because that's when the protagonist meets the killer. And now he thinks 'Hmmmmm I really don't want to give Koontz any credit or cash sooo... yeah I just make up my own ending. Maybe then Koontz won't sue me... Why not? I can write something myself!' That's where he is dead wrong. You can NOT take someones story and just write a different ending it just doesn't fit. This kind of ending was rather popular at the time (Fight Club, Identity...) so that's probably why he used it.

And that perfectly explains all the holes and mistakes because up to the car chase the movie was written by Dean Koontz and after that the director took a shot of creating something himself. And that did NOT mix.
I mean, yeah, you can interpret this movie in a way that the twist becomes logical but that is just because you really really like it to be that way. It is not in there because the movie and the twist were written by different authors.

And in my opinion that movie is a rape of a great book, without giving the real artist the least amount of credit... This is just sad and this is why this movie deserves no stars what so ever.

[–] tom-sugnet 12 years ago

maybe she is a shemale if she can masturbate putting her penis into beheaded girs' heads

[–] therefdotcom 12 years ago

that is absurd. as a lot of people already pointed out, you are mistaking the terms "plot hole" and "twist". the twist is what makes this movie great and unforgettable. there is no script mix or anything. as someone also pointed out: we see most of the movies runtime through the eyes of an insane person. this kind of twist, btw is also not new, there have been quite a lot good movies that used this kind of twist. funny, that a lot of people did get it immediately and some few just wanna insist, that it is not conclusive. it is not up to interpretation at all. we see the first like 75 minutes through the eyes of the killer, then we get some scenes where we see what really happened, like for example the video at the gas station. i don't know if we both saw the same movie, but right near the final hunting scene, we get actually shown, what has happened in reality at any major scene of the movie. in the final hunting scene we even see how the protagonists mind switches between both of her personalities. a bit earlier in the movie we have seen an encounter where both of her personalities actually have a short discussion.

sorry haters, but this baby is conclusive.

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] eru0527 11 years ago

I agree with some of the people. The direction in this movie is GREAT. The voyeurism, the brutality, the never seeing the face of the killer, the always worrying that she will be noticed (she's hiding like half the movie).

I mean it's directed SO WELL. It really puts the viewer in a constant state of edge of the seat high tension [pun intended].

But the script is NOT as good as the directing. Sure the first half is really well thought out because her being in hiding/chasing the killer/kidnapper throws the regular horror chase on end. But when the twist makes everything illogical, yeah the scriptwriters failed.

Aja maybe just is a better director than writer.

I gave this film a 7 out of 10, because it is maybe one of the most intense movies I've ever seen. Without the twist and a better last act it would be like a 9, but everything becoming stupid in the end doesn't ruin the extremely thrilling ride I had up til then. So I gave it a high rating, because credit where credit is due to the extreme intensity.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] paul_cowsill 9 years ago

Sorry to break it to you, but Norma Bates also did not kill Lily Crane in the shower. SPOILER It was actually Norman Bates in her dress. Or maybe he imagined it in the mental institution.

I'm sorry the Coen brothers don't direct the porn I watch. They're hard to get ahold of, okay?

[–] purefault 11 years ago

I think the events did in fact happen, but we're seeing it from her (very twisted) point of view... so we're seeing the events as she remembers them.

[–] lazarillo 11 years ago

The problem for me was not the "twist", but the lack of subtlety. If this had been more of a slow, atmospheric horror film, the unreliable narrator might have worked. But this movie was very frenetic and high octane--more action than horror--and a lot of what happened is just physically impossible unless we're ENTIRELY in the head of the protagonist, in which case literally anything goes (as others have said).

The "head from the severed head" scene works as a gratuitous scene in horror movie, but it doesn't work even as the FANTASY of a disturbed girl. Why would a young girl possible have a fantasy like that? That's the general problem. These are stereotypical scenes from a gory horror movie or an action movie, but they seem very UNLIKE the fantasies of an obsessed teenage girl.

They should have had a "fantasy" where Cecile de France and Maiwenn LeBesco give in to their passions with some hot lesbian sex. I'm kidding, but that is what I don't like about Aja--he's turned his back on the subtle, atmospheric (and sexier) Eurohorror to embrace the slick, modern-day action-horror of Hollywood. Soon he'll be helming overwrought Hollywood horror re-makes. . .oh wait. .

[–] sm-meehan 11 years ago

The "head from the severed head" scene works as a gratuitous scene in horror movie, but it doesn't work even as the FANTASY of a disturbed girl. Why would a young girl possible have a fantasy like that? That's the general problem. These are stereotypical scenes from a gory horror movie or an action movie, but they seem very UNLIKE the fantasies of an obsessed teenage girl.

I'll grant you this scene is hard to put into context. After all, it was Marie's rendition of the story. Did she actually mention this detail to the police? My thought is it's separate from her version and specifically designed to show us, the viewer, her underlying sexual rage beginning to fester. Someone stated that it shows us the birth of the killer within Marie and I think this is true. That scene is not supposed to have any bearing on the story, it's designed to give the viewer a visual of Marie's internal state.

[–] ScorpionTDC 10 years ago

Why the Twist IS Stupid: It's been used 10 million times and it comes completely and totally out of nowhere. The fact it means things we saw never happened compounds to the fact it sucked

Death Awaits (Horror forum)
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[–] Rocco- 10 years ago

Jesus *beep* christ and Almight god! TEN MILLION TIMES!

Please post a list of 10 million movies. Thanks.

"In long enough timeline the survival-rate for everyone drops to zero. -David Fincher: Fight Club

[–] ScorpionTDC 9 years ago

Someone's never heard of a hyperbole. The point is that the twist is overused, and High tension certainly did not invent it

Death Awaits (Horror forum)
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[–] fatpie42 10 years ago

Half the movie never happened - and that's a good thing?

You realise the people you are disagreeing don't like the twist BECAUSE it means that half the movie never happened, right?

[–] nic-disassembly 10 years ago

Watched yesterday again for the first time in 8 years or so. We don't even know if Marie was actually FRIENDS with Alex. We don't know if that car ride to the house ever happened. That picture of her and Alex on the mantle? Was it all a part of Marie's half-baked story? The only thing the film DOES confirm is that the the murders DID occur, but it was Marie doing the killing. And Marie definitely has the hots for Alex. Nothing else is confirmed, other than what I just stated, and that the viewed events are what Marie thinks/wishes/believes/wants others to believe happened in the course of the film.

I've always loved the movie and the twist...I came here because the one thing that always bugged me was the truck/fellatio scene in the beginning...never really understood that, but makes sense she was really trying to "build" her story up and contrast herself as a hero and not a villain. I always remember the chanting in the beginning, but somehow forget the camera in the VERY beginning of the film. And I think that one frame is really what makes a world of difference to the viewer...if you miss it, or don't acknowledge it, you don't realize this is a story within a story.

For anyone stating "the twists sucks because now i can put any scenario into this story line"...well yeah that's the point to an extent...conversely, i can put the script of "Home Alone" into "Die Hard" while i'm at it. Doesn't mean Joe Pesci is in the wrong movie. You can draw a line/interpretation out of ANYTHING with any art. It's the reason people sing the wrong lyrics to songs. The film still holds up after all this time and is easily a smarter film than say "Cabin Fever 2", "Texas Chainsaw 2013" or any of the remake dreck that plagued horror movies for much of the 00's - early 10's.

[–] Dan_Garten 10 years ago

Interesting thoughts.

He's nothing next to Bart Taylor.

[–] ScorpionTDC 10 years ago

What they need to realise is that everything that happens in the film is subject to the fantasy interpretation of reality of the protagonist and that very little of what is depicted on screen actually happens.

Which is exactly why it's called stupid. The entire film pulls the twist out of its own ass with zero foreshadowing and handwaves any inconsistencies by saying "Oh well it's all in her head anyways." It takes zero effort to write a twist like that. Anyone can give their lead character SPD and say everything that happened is all in said lead's head

Death Awaits (Horror forum)
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[–] JackAteSally 9 years ago

I think thale fact that everyone is so unsettled by the twist proves its effectiveness. It'smorecteakistic than than you all will ever choose to admit. 8 out 10 murder are committed by someone the victims knows well. As much as we all love the idea of the stocky, shadowed truck driving killler. It's not a realistic depiction of a killer. A lot of killers ate mousy, even normal looking, even someone you thought you could trust. The fact that Marie snapped and killed her friends entotr (b/c regardless of a twist she did this, and it is horrific) is more terrifying than what we are let to believe up until.
The film truly comes full circle by the end and one you watch it more and more, it all really does go together. I mean the first lines are.. 'I won't let anyone come between us anymore.." Come on people. Best post millennium slasher there's been.
"Oh... I'm not afraid."
-Pamela Vorhees

[–] Noone222 9 years ago

Actually the real reason the twist is stupid is because the movie is ripped off from a book, making the twist necessary otherwise it would be a blatant rip off.

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