I am so sick of seeing the cell-shaded Link in all the new Zelda games! He looks like a retard! The worst looking Link out of all of them (even worse then a NES one). I can't wait till Zelda NGC 2 comes out! It has a new art style that is close to Ocarnia of Time and Majora's Mask. I just hope that means the end of the goofy retard Link!
shareWind Waker was an experiment in artistic direction, and it was richly rendered. Like it or not, The ENTIRE Legend of Zelda series is one that utilizes a heavy dose of artistic license in each new title. Every game seems different in some way, be it story or art, but in the end, they still adhere to the mythos and gameplay that have been the true staple of the series.
The creators of Wind Waker weren't trying to shift the idea of what a Zelda game should look like, no more than Ocarina of Time intended to be a faithful sequel to its predecessors. The best way to be a fan of a Zelda game is to expect them to always tell a slightly different tale in a slightly different way, but still clinging to its basic, defining elements.
Like it or not, despite your preferences for some form of adrenaline-drenched, gritty, bloody, stereotypical platform adventure game, The Wind Waker is an excellent game, because of its gameplay and its unique style. If you can appreciate art for what is, you might start to see the beauty of the game - which is a true Legend of Zelda at heart. The games have never been defined by their look, but by their feel.
I agree but they've had this style for several games now, it's time to move on.
shareDont bother with Raptor he is just a a flamer/troll/fanboy who blindy bashes others who do not share his own opinion.
HEY YOU ARE MY!<offensive word>of the<time phrase>
SHUT UP! YOU FRICKEN IDIOT! WIERD RAPTOR, YOU ARE AN ASS HOLE! I DON'T CARE IF I GET BANNED FOR BREAKING THE RULES! JUST SHUT UP! & MARIO IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A TOUGH BROOKLYN PLUMBER! HE'S ITALIAN!! ITALIAN! FROM NOWHERE IN PARTICULAR! DON'T BASE YOUR SIMPLEMINDED IDEAS ON THE HORRIBLE MARIO MOVIE! & TWW HAS GREAT GRAPHICS! & LINK IS SUPPOSED TO BE A KID! SO SHUT UP! IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE CELL SHADED TO EXPERIMENT WITH EMOTIONAL VIEWS! YOU CAN'T MAKE LINK LOOK SCARED OR GANNON LOOK ANGRY AMAZING WITH REALISTIC GCN GRAPHICS! SO SHUT UP & STOP BASHING EVERYTHING ABOUT IT! IF YOU HATE IT SO MUCH WHY ARE YOU ON IT'S BOARD!?
share[deleted]
By the by, realistic graphics can make Link look scared and Ganon look angry.
That doesn't take away the artistic value of cel-shaded graphics. Wind Waker is the best-looking Zelda because of this artistic value. And Nintendo confirmed that Twilight Princess will retain some cel-shaded elements during the game.
And I'm not basing my view that Mario is a Brooklyn plumber on the movie. I'm basing in on the old cartoon, and to me, Mario will always be from Brooklyn. You will never change my mind on that.
Actually Mario is based on Mario Segali, an italian employee of Nintendo's New York division. And voice actor Charles Martinet defined Mario's true voice when he entered the 3D era.
The brooklyn based Mario completely violates the continuity of the games, especially Super Mario World 2, where it was established that Mario and Luigi were brought by a stork to the mushroom kingdom, before being intercepted by Kamek.
Oh, and Link wasn't a kid in the original games. He was already well into his his teenage years.
Link was 10 in the original game, and around 12 in A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening. Not quite a teen yet.
[deleted]
Artistic value? Who the hell cares about artistic value in a game series where the hero faces giant, blue pigs and the hero has to collect flippers to freaking swim?
It's part of the appeal that makes gamers invest themselves emotionally into these games.
And what artistic value? They had Link doing borderline chibi expressions!
They had Link emulate real human emotions and expressions, reacting to the game's events. The cel-shaded style contibuted to that, by making Link more realistic than a lot of television cartoons.
No, Mario will always be a tough plumber from New York to the older crowd, who loved and appreciated him before Nintendo cast the voice that physically hurts true Mario fans. His Brooklyn accent is his true voice. He is not some eunuch with a bad accent.
A real fan who understands the meaning of Mario knows his gaming voice is a crucial part to his appeal. The Brooklyn accent is the exception.
Considering that the "Super Mario Super Show" was made and released long before "Super Mario World 2", I have to ask how it could possibly have violated the continuity when that so-called "continuity" you mention wasn't even established yet. If anything, SMW2 violated the continuity that fans had grown to embrace.
Tha game is established canon. The TV show isn't.
Yeah, and this "information" never even came out until after it was established that Link was an adult in OoT. No, he will always be a teenager. Please... Link was clearly a teen at least be "The Adventure of Link", otherwise, he would have been shorter than all the adults in the game.
This information is far older than that. I figured Link's age by looking at the drawings in the old game manual. He looked like a kid in the original game.
Adventure of Link is one of the few exceptions to this rule. And that was the weakest game by coincidence. Ocarina of Time was also one of the few exceptions, mainly in the adult mode. Young Link was still enjoyable in that game.
Majora's Mask also had Young Link and that game was also terrific.
[deleted]
You have to look at this from the perspective of someone who was born before 1990.
I'm from 1981. I played all the original Mario games from the first Donkey Kong to Super Mario World 2, before getting acquainted with 3D Mario, with an actual voice, in 1996. I just happened to find that the voice works for the character and eventually accepted this inevitable change.
Not nearly as enjoyable as the Adult Link section, though.
The adult section is more interesting not because he's an adult, but because the dungeons are inherently more interesting, especially the Ice Cavern. Spirit Temple is enjoyable for both Links, given how they're connected.
"Majora's Mask" is the not a terrific game. Its like playing a game version of "Groundhog's Day". Reliving the same days over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again wasn't fun for Bill Murray, and it wasn't fun for most of the people who played. "Majora's Mask" without the 'Zelda' title would have flopped.
It's every bit as good as Ocarina. It also presented an interesting challenge: to beat this game 100%, while going back in time as little as possible. I managed to pull it off in a 12 day cycle (including the initial Deku cycle), going back in time, only 3 times. Therefore, it didn't feel like over and over, since I only fought the Snowhead boss twice, and Woodfall's Gekko as well. I didn't repeat anything else, except a minor section of the Anju/Kafei quest, which has to be repeated anyway.
Yeah, and the pictures of the old manuals are so vague, all you can tell is that he's young. And he was not that much smaller than any of the people he ran into in the original game. Thus, his size makes him not much smaller than that of an adult. That is the size of a typical teenager.
In the original manual, there's a picture of a very small childish Link, buying equipment from a very tall and adult salesman. There's also a portrait of Link drinking a potion, like a very small kid. The manual clarifies that this Link is very young.
It's not as if Link being an adult somehow makes the game any better. Link is just a playable character. What makes these games unique is their gameplay system and they've been consistently good, with the exception of Zelda II and its RPG-esque style.
Considering that I emotionally invest myself more deeply in just about all the other main console games of the 'Zelda' series than this tripe, your argument is null and void, yet again.
My argument isn't rendered null or void because of one minor person's opinion.
[deleted]
I still like the games, regardless, and that should be enough for you.
I can accept that, as long as you don't offend Charles Martinet, who's a talented and honest actor and worked with Miyamoto to find the right voice for Mario.
And the whole thing about having to get every single damn mask in the game just to get the Fierce Deity Mask was ridiculous.
You had to a similar mask quest in Ocarina of Time to get every item upgrade, not to mention the Mask of Truth. It's also no different than having to spend precious time fighting enemies for experience points so you can improve your attack and life levels. All Zelda puzzles and challenges have a purpose and a satisfying prize that comes with them.
yet jumping a guy, knocking him unconscious and stealing his masks isn't evil?
Not really evil. Skull Kid was a childish prankster, like Bart Simpson. And one of his pranks backfired, resulting in his possession. The game's main theme is friendship and forgiveness, which Link and the 4 giants give to the Skull Kid at the end of the game. That's also a theme largely present on the Ikana quest.
Yes, it does. You pointed out that the cel-shaded graphics make it easier for people to get emotionally connected, and I pointed out that that's not true in and of itself. Thus, you're whole argument is null and void. Most of the people in my social circle hate "The Wind Waker" and its graphics, and have never been less moved by a game. Oh, and you are also just a minor person.
Most Wind Waker reviews praise the use of the graphics and the character expressions, regardless of the kiddy aspect that comes with it. The problem most people have with this game are sailing-related and the fact that there are few playable dungeons.
Get over the fact that I prefer "Ocarina of Time"-ish graphics to cel-shaded "WindWaker"-ish graphics
You're entitled to your preference, as long as you acknowledge the fact that cel-shaded games are perfectly acceptable and there are people who enjoy them a great deal.
[deleted]
Ah, but its not required to beat the game. That's something you can wait to do after the first (or first few) time(s) you beat the game.
It isn't required, and neither is the Fierce Deity Mask. You can beat Majora's Mask without it. I know I have. In fact, the only masks that are really necessary are the 3 transformation ones, the Gibdo mask, the Captain's Hat, the Garo mask and the Mask of Scents. All the other masks are optional.
That only proves that the majority likes it, and we all know how oh so reliable the opinions of the majority are.
I hated the graphics, I hated the sailing, I hated the Atlantis/Waterworld rip-off plot, I hated the fact that there were very few dungeons, I hated that they made it necessary to go visit that vile creature, Mr Tingle, I hated that you had to pay what felt like millions have, of all things, a map translated, and I hated the frikking treasure hunt on the frikkin ocean!
The only thing I really thought was rather slow was the triforce quest. I loved everything else.
And I don't give a crap what other people enjoy, other people enjoyed "Titanic", and that IS, in fact, one of the most horrible movies ever made.
I can accept that, and I agree that Titanic can be a bit overrated sometimes. It's a decent film, but nowhere near the standards of the Star Wars films (especially Episode III) or the Lord of the Rings.
[deleted]
Yeah, sure you beat him without the Fierce Deity Mask. I don't buy that for a single second. In any case, a freaking treasure hunt for masks all across the globe should not be the main action of a game.
It's just like getting the medallions and spritual stones in Ocarina of Time, or getting the crystals and pendants in a Link to the Past. The principle is the same.
And yes, I beat all 3 versions of Majora's Mask with nothing but arrows and the Gilded Sword.
Then you apparently hold the 'Zelda' series with very low expectations.
No. I'm always drawn to the games, including The Adventure of Link. They all have the same gaming appeal to me.
When Wind Waker was released, I was actually skeptical of the new direction taken by Nintendo and a little worried. That changed when I actually played it, which made me realize it's all in the gameplay and enjoyment factor. And the graphics still looked good.
Very few films make me so mind-numbingly bored that I'm tempted to slit my wrists, but "Titanic" did that in flying colors.
That kind of reaction is rather extreme, even if the movie isn't good. Titanic certainly isn't great. But if you sliced the love story away from the film, it would improve quite a bit. The non-love story section is actually quite good, especially when the ship is broken in half.
You think "Revenge of the Sith" is the best "Star Wars" film?
Yes I do. This was the Star Wars film that defined how far can a story affect the audience, combining emotion, plot development and visual effects to a degree that was never achieved in any other film except Return of the King.
It affected me a great deal and changed my persepctive on the man behind Darth Vader for the better. It ended the series on the right note, drawing a perfect and truly satisfying conclusion for Episodes I and II, while leading the path to Episodes IV, V and VI.
[deleted]
Just take WeirdRaptors posts with a pinch of salt. He's pathetic really and takes himself to seriously. A good entertainment source though:)
share[deleted]
WeirdRaptor, you do realize that Ocarina of Time was a pretty cartooish game, don't you? So was aLTTP. Just thought I'd point that out.
share[deleted]
I liked Wind Waker (mostly for a very good story that kind of felt like the epilogue to what OOT began) a bit but it has its flaws (side quests that are uninteresting, a world that while pretty is uninteresting to explore and the graphics while again pretty, do not neccesarily fith teh genre). It also had its strong points IMO (storyline, buried Hyrule, and the overall presentation for what it was going for was near flawless).
But I won't try and defend that game.
On the other hand I can't stand people calling Majora's Mask bad. That game was brilliant. It only gets a bad rap because it had to follow OOT, but in many ways while I prefer OOT, MM is the more mature and thoughtfully developed storyline in terms of detail. Each character has theier own story and most are very interesting and this pushes the side quest into the realm of amazing and the story is overly dark and could be depressing but it actually goes for a tone of uplifting instead. It is a brilliant game.
I'd also like to point out for the record that Mario's voice in Super Mario 64 is spot on. I was born in the '80s too but Brookllyn Mario from the old cartoon and movie sucked (much like that cartoon and movie). If we went by that *beep* than King Koopa would still be green and have a Jersey accent. I think not. Mario 64 nailed the voice in my opinion though.
"My first post here was very early on in 2005, Marathon. My views are the same as they were back then, so what hope do you think you have of changing my opinion? Fact is: it isn't going to happen, and I'm getting tired of my opinions of what I think the Zelda series should be like being challenged at every single turn. So don't even start in with me. It will get you nowhere fast."
Wow, look whose so badass! It's pretty silly that you've been hovering around a message board for a game you don't even like for over a year. Oh, and you're ideas are getting challenged at every turn becuase they're ridiculous.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Judging solely on the quality of you're grammar and spelling I'd guess that you haven't yet made it through high school. But what do I know? Maybe you're actually a very mature person who just never had the time to learn how to write.
Look, friend, what Zelda is and what you appear to think it should be are two very different things. Maybe you should take up playing Oblivion. That seems to be more the kind of game you're looking for.
[deleted]
Good, ignore me. That will make posting here a much more enjoyable expierience for me.
PS: I guess you've had an annoying roommate bothering you during the "composing up" of every single post you've made on this thread, too? And in all the other threads on this board?
[deleted]
I was following that old proverb "don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with expierience". Have a good day, and I hope to see lots more of you in the near future! :-)
share[deleted]
I guess it's a good thing for me that I don't give a rats ass whether I impress you or not.
share[deleted]
I admit, I get a certain amount of satisfaction from conversing with you.
share[deleted]
That sounds funny coming from a guy who's been bashing Wind Waker on the Wind Waker message board just to incite the Zelda fans for almost two years.
share[deleted]
I guess I'll take that to mean you find yourself in agreement with me. Good, I'm glad we could resolve this. Have a nice day.
share[deleted]
Oh no, you mean you don't like me??? I think I might just shed a tear. Really.
share[deleted]
Twilight Princess is by far, the best Zelda game I've ever played . Fantastic graphics and storyline. I only have the GameCube version though .
shareUmm...this board is long, ignorant, full of immature name-calling, and has strayed so far from the topic so many times, that after five minutes, i was no longer able to follow the conversations.
As a matter of opinion, Windwaker was really cute, and finally had a change of scenery from the usual forest and town stuff. Did it ever occur to anyone that the creator wanted to make a game that catered to the younger kids? I mean, for goodness sake, children+bright colors and cute, easy characters=happiness for them, right? So, you older kids play Twilight Princess and OofT, and leave WW to the little kiddies, okay? End of retarded ignorance.
Hey buddy, I agree with you . I didn't bother reading the immature posts either, there is a reason why Wind Waker was made: for the younger players. Zelda games doesn't mean it has to be "serious and dark" or "light-hearted". Zelda games are meant to be played by Everyone of all ages.
shareThe main reason Miyamoto made the game cel-shaded was to convey emotion better. Link had a very restricted way of conveying emotion in OoT and MM but his actions spoke much louder than a mere look of surprise or anger etc. Twilight Princess on the other hand gave Link a more 'human' face (his eye-lids, eyeballs, mouth and everything moved as though he was actually alive instead of a polygonal body with moving pictures all over it).
I enjoy Zelda games. I don't really care much about Link's age; just the character himself and everything he represents. Out of all Links though, I like the Link from OoT and MM. Adult Link is badass! I'm just that I will never be as cool a teen (I'm 18) as he is. However, that being said I like his younger incarnation better. Like I said before, I like Link's character above all else. An incredible role model for us all and I can't but admire a kid who can topple beasts 100x his size and come out on top!* I don't care if no-one else agrees with me but- some of the masks in MM were just too cool for words! (In particular the Giant's Mask and Fierce Deity's Mask!)
*WeirdRaptor (and anyone who shares his opinion for that matter), before you say anything about Young Link 'realisticly' taking on enemys like King Dodongo and Twinmold you've got to remember this. The Legend of Zelda, like Lord of the Rings, is pure fantasy. The majority of items and races in that novel (I mean all of them combined) are pure fiction, as are Hylians, Gorons, Zoras etc and the legendary sacred triangle, the Triumph Forks!!! ;)
P.S. Despite what you said WeirdRaptor, it IS possible to beat Majora without being Fierce Deity Link. Its just very tricky. Beat the first form, though and it is a more evenly matched fight!
"Kid, I'm a zoo clown. Now, buy a giraffe or go to hell." Malcolm in the Middle
[deleted]
[deleted]
For that matter, his little neck probably couldn't hold that enourmous head. It was stylized. It isn't meant to be perfectly realistic. Haven't you ever enjoyed an animated film?
The reason Miyamoto and Aonuma chose this style is that they felt it would evoke the feeling of being a child. I think they achieved that brilliantly.
"Yeah, sure you beat him without the Fierce Deity Mask. I don't buy that for a single second."
XD do you even play video games? I beat Majora first try, well before I had collected every mask in the game. Then I proceeded to collect every mask as well as all the fairies, because I don't consider a Zelda title completed until I have every item.
Ironically, despite Twilight Princess' dark, mature presentation, I found that it was the simplest Zelda of yet The dungeons are ludicrously easy. Some just seemed like speedbumps in what was essentially the emptiest Zelda game of the 3D era. Where are the sidequests? The optional items to reward true explorers? Hell, you can't even upgrade your sword! The only "secret" item I remember was the stupid magic armor which is completely unnecessary anyway because the game is so easy. The final confrontation with Ganon was almost dull because I had no sense that I was actually in danger. Even the well of torments was pretty trivial. I beat it within around an hour of when I found it. TP is by far the most uninspired, by-the-numbers, dumbed-down console Zelda ever. No wonder you liked it.
Its not supposed to be light-hearted and kiddy? its about a kid fighting monsters, you silly co ck master.
shareYou are taking this way too literally.
Last movies seen:
The Mutilator 6/10
Zombi 3 8/10
Kill, Baby, Kill 7/10
Their being creative of the new look.
shareLook, the only games where you can actually see the design like that are Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass, because they're 3D.
The 2D games...you can't tell. They all look pretty similar.
The only reason you know they look like Wind Waker Link is because of the art on the box.
Now playing: God of War,Dead Rising
I will agree--I find it unfair that a style that many are unhappy with is being used over and over, when in the past other Links have only had two apperances maximum. TWW, FS, FSA, MC, PH, and ST all have the same Link--which is probably to continue the "spreading the demographics of Zelda to all ages" as Miyamoto tried to do with The Wind Waker, as well as the DS Zelda games and much of the new DS and Wii stuff. (I personally find this to be pointless since most of the Zelda fans I know have been playing since they were very young and loved the games then just as much as they do now, even if they couldn't beat them easily.)
And, to respond to the person that corrected your use to NGC, I have seen it listed as both GCN and NGC--Game Cube [Nintendo] and Nintendo Game Cube.
However, though I haven't played Twilight Princess yet, I do not particularly care for the human-styles it has. The same artist has done all the art, though, since OoT, as far as I know.