I am so sick of seeing the cell-shaded Link in all the new Zelda games! He looks like a retard! The worst looking Link out of all of them (even worse then a NES one). I can't wait till Zelda NGC 2 comes out! It has a new art style that is close to Ocarnia of Time and Majora's Mask. I just hope that means the end of the goofy retard Link!
shareOkay, first of, NGC stands for the Nevada Gaming Committee, the official way to say it is GCN, Game Cube Nintendo, secondly, who the heck gives a crap about the style of art? The Wind Waker, Four Swords, and Minish Cap are all great games, true to the orgininal games. I mean, sure, I was really dissapointed myself with the Wind Waker's style but after a little bit of play time I didn't care any more because it was such a great game.
I'll admit, I am happy that Nintendo is going with a more mature look for the new game, but I see nothing wrong with the WW style as long as they don't screw the games up.
P.S. You can be looking forward to some more cartoon-styled games on the Nintendo DS soon as well =P
Shigeru Miyamoto made Zelda. He can do whatever he wants with the game series. The technology of today is being used to perfect his original vision of the story.
If you don't like it, don't play it. I don't think he looks "retarded" so keep your opinions to your self. It's not your decision what happens in the series.
You should be glad that Miyamoto is still making it when people like you whine and moan about how the visual style isn't to your liking.
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WeirdRaptor, shut up. *Rolls eyes*
It may be overtly cartoony, but OoT's Link is overtly Bishi.
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It IS like LttP. Miyamoto has stated several times that it is OoT that strayed from the original vision of Zelda. The whole point of Zelda, in his own words, was that it was a child, with no experience as a warrior, going out and fighting monstrous beasts. Not some hardened warrior who wakes up and knows what he's doing.
LoZ Link - Ten year old
AoL Link - LoZ Link, age sixteen
LttP Link - Twelve, thirteen
LA Link - Twelve, thirteen (LttP Link)
OoT Link - Ten / Seventeen
MM Link - Ten and three months
OoS/A Link - Thirteen
TWW Link - Twelve
So the majority of the time, he's a child.
Miyamoto's vision of child saving the day vs. yours, saying he's some Rambo cool mother ****er who does this **** standing on his head.
Creator vs. Fan who disagrees with creator...
Tough call.
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Good point. I mean, SSBM, a game with no involvement from Miyamoto, is SO great of a source!
Does it matter that the kid can't beat anything? Yeah. But does he beat them? Yeah. Young Link, THE DOMINANT LINK THROUGHOUT THE SERIES, is what the series revolves around. You hardly win any argument.
I think all the games are fun, no matter which Link you are. (But it is more fun when you're older Link). *hides from Zeldaalttp*
share[deleted]
Screw the CREATOR'S vision? Hell, if he didn't HAVE that vision, Zelda wouldn't exist you retard! You just can't help to lose, can you?
I'm LuvableBaka. I like to run around in circles! What do YOU like to do?
"the creator does not know what is good for the creation".
Ok, and you do? i'm sure you could do better.
I love the Wind Waker. I don't have to argue with anyone about that. I loved it so much that I beat it 3 times in a row. The only other games where I did that were the Metal Gears. Matter of fact, The Wind Waker was the first game I got for Gamecube. I have only played one other game where it felt like I was actually playing an animated movie, and that was Aladdin for Sega Genesis. People have no right to slam this just because it seems childish. Hell before I got this, the last 5 games I got were The Punisher, GTA San Andreas, Metal Gear Solid 3, The Suffering, and Dead or Alive. The fact is it's just a good game. My opinion on the new one is that it's gonna be awesome. I also believe that the horse is gonna be your source of transportation just like the boat was in Wind Waker.
shareAs to what nasher says about link looking... "retarded".... i recently read in Electronic gaming monthly, that if you pre order the new zelda (and 10 more dollars), you will get a copy of windwaker, without the cartoony graphics. the graphics will resemble more like the new zelda coming out. they probably just did this to get those whining bastards (nasher) off their backs, for making link look "retarded".
i for one, dont mind the cartoonish looks.
As to what nasher says about link looking... "retarded".... i recently read in Electronic gaming monthly, that if you pre order the new zelda (and 10 more dollars), you will get a copy of windwaker, without the cartoony graphics. the graphics will resemble more like the new zelda coming out. they probably just did this to get those whining bastards (nasher) off their backs, for making link look "retarded".
i for one, dont mind the cartoonish looks.
#1. Zelda 2 has Adult Link (well, close to it, since he's only a year younger than the so-called Adult Link in OoT), and it's probably the most hated Zelda.
#2. If you want a hardened warrior taking out everything in sight with ease, then play an LotR game.
#3. Um, okay? OoT, Zelda 2 and this game. Three.
And for Young Link?
LoZ, LttP, LA, OoS, OoA, OoT, MM, TWW, FS, FSA, TMC. Eleven games.
#4. EGM April Fool's joke. They'd never alter the game so much to please the fans and for $10.00. They'd have to change ALL visuals.
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So, Adult Link's two best games don't even exist?
LoZ - Obviously young.
LttP - Young.
LA - Young.
OoT - Adult and Kid.
MM - Young (Fierce Deity =/= Adult Link).
AoL - Adult Link. In the opinion of the majority, the least enjoyable one, not counting the CD-i, which were created from a loophole that Nintendo disliked. Besides, they're considered three of the worst games ever conceived.
OoS - Young.
OoA - Young.
FS - Young.
FSA - Young.
TWW - Young.
TMC - Young.
This Zelda - Adult Link.
So, let's look at the score based off of professional reviews?
#1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (98.3%)
#2. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (95.1%)
#3. The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages (94.7%)
#4. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past/Four Swords (93.0%)
#5. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (92.8%)
#6. The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons (92.4%)
#7. The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap (91.5%)
#8. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time/Master Quest (90.6%)
#9. The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventure (84.4%)
#10. Classic NES Series: The Legend of Zelda (83.8%)
#11. Classic NES Series: Zelda II (68.2%)
So, lemme get this straight...
If you dislike TWW for its gameplay, then you shall dislike Zelda GC for its gameplay, because it's the same gameplay. So what you're saying is, in the only two games ever created that had Adult Link, he's still better because he has a single game that's at the top of the charts? And he wasn't even Adult Link all the time? And it WAS the first Zelda in 3D. Zelda II ranks the lowest, and Zelda GC ain't even out yet. If it beats OoT, then it's two vs. the rest, excluding the worst rated.
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"Super Smash Bros." and "Super Smash Bros. Melee", you moron.
<Me> Oh! So, what, that made how much sense? None? Yar. MIYAMOTO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH EITHER. Idiot.
Zelda GC is going to take place on land. I don't see a *beep* ocean anywhere on the trailer, so I will like it. Its going be to like OoT, actually. Its a sequel to TWW, but its going be profoundly different.
<Me> No, it's not. It's the exact same gameplay. It's BUILT off of the same gameplay. The parrying (pushing A right before an enemy's attack), the health system (lower damage), picking up enemy's weapons, etc. It's the same gameplay, different visuals.
Who cares who has the majority of the games? And who cares what the majority thinks of "the Adventure of Link"? AoL was Miyamoto's original concept for the series, anyway. Know that, since you're oh so obsessed on insisting that the creator is always right. And concerning the majority, I believe the majority once put "Titanic" in the top box office position, so that rules the idea of the majority always being right out, as well. So, you have proven nothing to me in any way, shape, or form. No cigar, and not even close. Try again.
<Me> Miyamoto had minor involvement with Zelda 2, actually. http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/nes/data/563487.html See? His only role is Producer. He's not even one of the main programmers, or a director. Also, I said PROFESSIONAL REVIEWERS, like EGM, who, in their top 100 games ever, put Majora's Mask and A Link to the Past before Ocarina of Time. I don't know where you got the whole 'who has the majority of the games' things. It's based off of professional reviews. www.gamerankings.com. Titanic's box office sales are because people went to it because of Leonardo DiCaprio. Box office sales and the opinion of the gameplay have nothing in common - one is based on hype, the other is based off of opinion. I bet a lot of people who saw Titanic that brought it up hated it.
Like I said, the Young Link we've subjected to recently will soon be nothing but a bad memory.
<Me> ...Because Adult Link has appeared three times over sixteen years? In half of the best game, in all of the worst game, and in an upcoming game? We don't see the future quests of Adult Link from OoT, we see the future quests of Young Link. It branches off from that, so I decree that Adult Link is merely a transformation in OoT, so in OoT, Link is still Young Link at heart. So, two, since you have so negative of a sentiment towards the idea of Link not being synonymous with Rambo.
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The 'Super Smash Bros.' features Link, that's enough for me to say that he has been in five games. Idiot.
<Me> Okay, so, there's a racing game that features Young Link as a cameo. And Tetris had Link in the ending. SSBM has Young Link. BS Zelda has Young Link. Zelda DX has Young Link. If you want to include two games, I'll include five. Idiot.
'Professional game reviews'? Don't make me laugh. Anyone who has so little to do with their time that they would take up a job known as 'professional game reviewers' would hardly have any opinions worth listening. Once again, you've failed to convince me of nothing.
<Me> Siskel and Roeper are paid to give their opinions on movies. They're professional movie reviewers.
It doesn't matter that Miyamoto was only loosely involved in AoL, the way AoL was set up is still what he originally had in mind for the series.
<Me> ...Um, actually, it wasn't. He has stated before that he was inspired by a lake on a high mountain, with a cave near it he found as a young kid - that Zelda is about exploration. How is the way AoL set up what he originally had in mind for the series? He had a child exploring the world as the series.
There is only one proper way to do a Zelda:
1. A recently dark and very serioues storyline.
2. Recently frightening villains.
3. Adult Link.
4. Extensive world.
5. A very scary final boss (Ganondorf from OoT).
<Me> So, basically, you want it to be nothing like Zelda? Again, at what point did OoT even fit your Rambo perception of Link?
That is how a Zelda game should be.
<Me> Resident Evil maybe. Zelda, which has been stated by its creator, to not be dark. So, it is SUPPOSED to be an accessible, light-hearted but sometimes serious.
Who cares if Adult Link is Young link at heart? He still looked adult to me.
<Me> So his body overrules his mind? The fact that he has no experience as a fighter as adult or kid doesn't matter?
Once again, I am not swayed by anything you said. Try again. And try not to fail miserably this time.
<Me> Oh well. I can't help that you want Zelda to, you know, cease to be Zelda. If you want gore, go find another game. That's not what Zelda is about - It's about actual quality. Oh, and funny that you walked away from the comparison of box office sales to the opinion of a game. Maybe it's because only an idiot would argue that they're similar? The box office sales were based off of hype, star status and/or the name. The peoples' opinions on AoL are formulated after giving it a shot, and it is arguably the least liked Zelda.
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Ebert and Roaper are universally considered morons, by the way. They hardly ever give the good movie the "Thumbs Up". Critics do not add up to the Right answer. The LotR triogy was the rare exception where they actually gave credit where it was due, and Roaper (the more moronic of the two) had the nerve to give FotR a "Thumbs Down". What a jerk.
<Me> I didn't really like the Lord of the Rings movies. A professional reviewer doesn't rate the popular movies high and the bad movies low, they give their opinion on the movies.
I didn't say I wanted gore, you ignorant sook. I said it wanted it more serious games in the series. The only Zelda games that I've ever truly loved playing are OoT and ALttP. Because they actually had drama, tragity, plot twists, a serious game structure, and gameplay I could competely believe.
<Me> TWW had a serious game structure. It may be very light-hearted in plot and characters, but the battles are usually very serious. And Ganondorf seemed very, very serious.
And I don't mind Young Link as concept. I could easily play and enjoy a Zelda game featuring Young Link, if they actually did it right for a change. The reason I want Adult Link to take over is because, to me, Adult Link has always been in the best of the games, so I associate that with "quality Zelda". I just don't like the new look they've up and given to him. Yeesh. Can that kid get any uglier? The Young Link from TWW, FS, FSA, and MC drives me nuts. If I want a Young Link, I'll sooner play ALttp, LA, OoT, MM, and the ORacles series. Not these new ones. I come from the generation where there were decent Zelda games continually. TWW, FS, FSA, and MC are all awful. I'd like them to go back to the OoT and MM style animation, which they are, thankfully.
<Me> I think TWW Link is ugly, but FS, FSA and MC seemed to have improved his look. With cel-shading, it makes it easier to express emotions. Also, did you know that the Alpha version of OoT was cartoony?
As for Link as a character. I never said he has to be a Rambo, you moron, I said I prefer adult Link. And after that, you assumed that I wanted Rambo. Guess again, dumpster face.
<Me> You might as well say Rambo. You want an experienced, powerful Link, which, while not bad occasionally, just isn't how Zelda was made. Just because he holds a sword doesn't mean it has to be an uber serious game. And what the heck does dumpster face mean?
Try again.
<Me> Box office comment?
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Like I care whether you like LotR or not? Professional critics are supposed to know quality, and they apparently missed the greatness of the LotR films. That's what makes them far from good sources for a good opinion on films.
<Me> Job description of a professional critic: Review stuff. It's not 'review stuff in order to make the masses happy'.
No, I might not as well say Rambo. I ust prefer Adult link to Young Link. I don't see the problem with that that you're obviously seeing.
<Me>
No, Zelda is supposed to be that. It is supposed to be a fantasy epic. Not some light-hearted kiddie game. Everytime they came out with a serious game like OoT, ALttP, and even MM, I liked the seriousness more than the light-hearted feel.
<Me> LttP is hardly a dark game. Also, fun fact: Creator says it's supposed to be semi-light hearted with some seriousness, accessible for most ages. Zelda is not supposed to be dark, because no one in Nintendo ever said that. Some rabid OoT fanboy said it. OoT was going to be light-hearted. But the cartoony visuals that Miyamoto had intended for OoT didn't work with the N64's visuals, so he scrapped it for something easier. So, therefore, realism takes a back seat to cartoonyness. LttP was cartoony. LoZ was cartoony. AoL was less cartoony, but still cartoony.
And MC, FS, and FDA are all terrible games. They don't belong in the Zelda frachise. "Link's Awakening" is also prime example of what also doesn't belong in the series. The only ones I truly do accept in the series thus far are the original, the first sequel, ALttP, OoT, Oracles, MM, and the upcoming one. The others can just stop existing for all I care.
<Me> Let's see...
MC - I've seen many reviews of MC, from professionals and random people, and they range from a few negative, to some average to many good. FSA and FS, same deal. Also, why don't you have a negative sentiment towards AoL? It changed everything about LoZ, and it didn't further the game, outside of being different and innovative. And with the upcoming one, for all you know, it'll be merely a 'serious game with lots of light-heartedness'. What, exactly, is wrong with Link's Awakening? Is it the gameplay, that not only appeared to be carbon copied by OoS/A, but in fact WERE? And box office? :)
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Critic Job Description: Be able to recognize quality, and then express opinion about it. If you can;t recognize quality movies, books, and gaming, you don't have any business being a critic. Which means Ebert and Roaper need ot be fired.
<Me> So, their job is to wait on you hand and foot? If they didn't like Lord of the Rings, they didn't like Lord of the Rings. If they aren't any better than us, their job should hardly be agreeing with the masses just to make them happy.
No, the Zelda games are supposed to be realistic. The best game, Ocarina of Time, was very realistic and "A Link to the Past" was the best they could come up with at the time. The two best games (OoT and ALttP) were hardly cartoony. They actually had an extensive world and decently hard and intimidating villains for a change. Those two games are what Zelda was meant to be like. Not this LA, MC, FS, FSA, and TWW crap!
<Me> What the Hell are you talking about? LA is hardly easy. Oh, and you know what's funny? The fact that you ignored the fact that OoT was ORIGINALLY CARTOONY. So, if they made 999,999 games cartoony and one game realistic, and the one game was the best, they are supposed to be realistic? Miyamoto has stated that Zelda was meant to be cartoonish. He stated that after the release of LttP. Since it is his creation, his word is fact, and disputable only by Eiji and Yokoi, two people he worked very close with in many, many games. You, however, have no say in it, yet you say "I am right!". OOT WAS ORIGINALLY CARTOONY. THERE IS A VIDEO ON THE INTERNET.
If the upcoming one, at its core, is serious with a lot light-hearted moments. That'll be fine with me as long as I get my realistic moments and Adult Link, and as long as it is still very serious.
<Me> TWW was serious too. The only reason you say it's not, is it's cartoony. Ganondorf was seeking revenge for the fact that the Goddesses allowed his people to die. And Ganondorf in OoT sucked. He didn't have any personality developed in it. We knew **** about him. Now, he looks more villainous. He may not be built like a bouncer at a bar, but he's distinguished like a lord. He wanted to convert Link to his side, by convincing him of the Goddesses' wickedness, for killing his people, and if he didn't join, he would kill him.
I hate "Link's Awakening" due to the fact that the makers were lazy enough to use Mario villains in the game. And the fact the the premise wa sjust stupid, and that fact that I freaking egg on top of a volcano was a crucial plot point. It was just plain stupid!
<Me> So, it'd be better if they, instead of recycling Mario villains into the game, they recycled older Zelda villains into the game? Either way it's lazy. And you're making it seem like any old regular egg. It's just a seal created by Dethl. Besides, Dethl outranks Ganon, Majora, Vaati etc. as evil/dangerous villains. Dethl embodies is basically your worst fear and worst nightmare, while Majora is a being that brings chaos, Ganon is a being that has God-like power and Vaati is a massively powerful mage. But Ganon has nightmares, Vaati has nightmares, Majora has nightmares. Things that they fear. People that they fear. Dethl can take those forms. Dethl = Your nightmare, and only the most courageous would ever fight their nightmare (*cough*Link*cough*)
Face it, you'll never change my views. In fact, in your heart, you now I'm right.
<Me> Um, in my heart, I accept that the creator creates what is fact about his games. He has stated, for fact, that Zelda was originally meant to be cartoony. Going against that is going against gravity. Going against fact is a lie. So that would make you a liar.
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That's right, Ebert and Roeper aren't any better than us, in fact, they're worse.
<Me> Because they disagree with you?
No, I didn't ignore that OoT was orignally cartoony. I don't acknowledge it because it came off a much better game being realistic. So there.
<Me> But the fact is that he wanted OoT to be cartoony. If he could've made it work on the N64, it would've been cartoony. Doesn't matter what was a better run - what matters is that OoT, as it is now, is not what he wanted.
Zelda may have been meant to be cartoony, but the games that were realistic were better, so the original intention is actually inferior.
<Me> LttP outranks MM, as to OoA and LA. Out of the two realistic Zeldas, one is the best and the other is beaten by three other Zeldas, on GameRankings. In fact, a lot of people dislike MM, moreso than LttP. So one game in a series of eleven beating everyone proves it's inferior? It is better because of the gameplay, not the graphics.
The TWW Ganondorf better than the OoT Ganondorf? As if. They tried to make Ganondork in TWW look like a tragic hero, which totally disgusted me. You're not supposed to feel sorry for the villain. You're supposed to hate him. The Ganondorf in OoT was much better. At least he had menace. I wasn't intimidated by the TWW Gaondork at all. And yes, LA, to me, was too much of an easy game. I beat it in a week. ALttP and OoT, and most of the other games, at least, held a challenge out to me. Heck, even TWW was more of a challenge. Dethl was a joke.
<Me> OoT Ganondorf - Wanted power, would do anything to get it, etc. etc. etc.
TWW Ganondorf - Wanted revenge, intended on killing Link either way, etc. etc. etc.
TWW Ganondorf had more intentions in killing Link and Zelda and stealing their Triforce pieces than getting revenge as well. On plot, OoT Ganondorf is a featherweight compared to TWW's. Also, the only reason Dethl was easy to Link is because he has the ToC. Link obviously feared Ganon, but fought him everytime, and fought him in Nightmare form as well.
As for going against what the creator says to be fact is bullsh*t. I have my ideas of Zelda should be, so yes, I do have a say in the matter, because I'm a fan, a fan who is getting what he wants with the next game. So, you are the lair.
<Me> You said that it's supposed to be realistic. That is presenting your opinion as fact. Also, what you're saying is that the series as a whole is realistic because a few of the games are realistic. So, most games being cartoony + the majority of the Zelda team preferring Zelda being cartoony = The Zelda series being cartoony. In your opinion it's better realistic, but it's not supposed to be.
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if you dislike the game, don't play it.
true zelda fans won't care what it looks like.
besides .. alot of people like to forget: it's a FANTASY VIDEO GAME. Not real. Why does it need to look 100% realistic?
you'd be suprised at the amount of so called "zelda fans" that "disowned" this game because they didn't agree with the graphical style. Some true fan base there.
I am amazed at how shallow and ignorant people are being - I mean when zelda came out in the early 80's, it was nothing more then a bunch of flat, multi-colored pixels, but no one complained, because they liked it.
But now - people don't give a *beep* about how a game plays, it's all about how a game looks instead.
Well, if you want a game that looks flashy but blows in the game play department, go find one.
shigeru miyamoto is a innovator, not a follower. Anyone and their mother could make flashy realistic graphics like everyone else, but shigeru decided to be original unlike everyone else.
What a crime.
Who cares if Miyamoto wanted it cartoony, it came off better being realistic, and now he's deliberately returning to the realistic graphics. So there. I win. Try again.
<Me> Eiji Aonuma is returning it to realistic graphics. He is the developer, and he is the one who stated he wanted to give something to appease the complainers. So, basically, he said "Damn, those people won't stop whining. Give 'em this." Miyamoto only backed up his decision without complaint because he respects him. Also, you're comparing finished graphics to ALPHA VERSION GRAPHICS. You can't compare Step 1 to Step 5. The cartoony graphics looked bad because of the N64. It's not that they 'couldn't be done'. If he did this realistic graphics thing (regardless of the fact that it was someone else's decision), if it was because OoT succeeded, TWW would be realistic. Unlike you, they have SOME pride, and create HIS series based on what HE envisions it as, not the almighty dollar. OoT + Cartoony graphics = Same gameplay. I win, try again.
TWW Ganondorf is a joke. He has no menace, he is portrayed as a tragic hero, and he looks retarded. At least the Ganondorf in OoT had a personality, menace, and a reasonable motive.
<Me> And Ganondorf in OoT is portrayed as more than your 'I WANT POWER! RAWR!' villain? And Ganondorf is portraying HIMSELF as a tragic hero. He wants to KILL Zelda and Link, he wants the Triforce, Triforce > his people, and he'd wish for chaos, and absolute rule.
The game is meant to be reaslistic because the games were realistic. OoT outranks all the rest by far.
<Me> Um, actually, *beep* the games were not realistic. The designers did not design themselves realistic. You may want to lower your IQ to the point where you can ignore absolute, uncontestable fact.
Could someone relay this message to the retard?
Retard: You have constantly underminded the creators of the series' say in what the original intent of the series was. You constantly insist that, for some reason, you can say it was meant to be realistic. You can say it's better as realistic, or turn into a dumbass and insist that you, some guy who buys their games, has more say in if the games are realistic or not than the creators. If they say it's cartoony, you're a liar for saying it's realistic. Only two realistic games turned out great. One turned out good to okay. According to popular opinion, of course. And according to popular opinion, six cartoony Zelda games turned out good to great. It does not MATTER what the best game is. What matters is the fact that Miyamoto has never strayed from his stance on the visuals. EVER. At no point, since he came outta his momma's vagina, did he ever say he preferred realistic graphics for Zelda. At no point did he ever sway an inch from that.
Actually, could you give that retard this whole post? Thanks.
yea, and also, someone should relay this message to the retard:
Yea, video games were meant to be realistic. Only not.
Read very closely.
VIDEO GAMES ARE VIDEO GAMES. That is why they are called video. "games". They are ONLY GAMES. If they were always meant to be realistic, there would be no need to have "fantasy" games and games in which you can do "fantasy" things. Instead, there would be no need for "graphics", or "powers" or anything remotely magical, since there would be only realism. The legend of zelda would instead be called "the legend of the guy who works from 9-5 while sipping his coffee". Wow, that sounds interesting.
Duh. We live in a world of reality - do games have to be 100% realistic too?
if you're too stupid to play video games, then don't.
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good for you.
shareI don't mean to be hating, but do you guys realize you just spent well over a week arguing over something that is purely opinion? This argument made about as much sense as a Russell Crowe fan arguing with a Tom Hanks fan over who is the better actor. Both sides will present arguments, both valid and invalid, and basically disregard the arguments of the other. In fact this is just about how every argument on IMDb goes. But the point is, music, movies, tv, books, video games, everyone has a different conception of what makes these things great. Your opinion of a good movie or game is your own and you have the right to share it, but when you guys get in these time-wasting arguments you're just spreading hate. You both know that you'll never concede to the other, so why argue? Video games were (for the most part I assume) created for people to enjoy, whether they are childish or dark. There's a difference between sharing your opinions and forcing them on people ("Try not to fail miserably," "You lose," and I especially liked the originality of "dumpster face").
sharei'm not the one who started to complain about TWW instead if just playing a game I liked better instead.
I just added my 3 cents.c =)
I'm sorry moonlight I must've come off like a jerk just a bit- my comments were directed mainly at the two duking it out for the majority of this thread. I don't want to sound like I'm elitist or anything, it just didn't seem like they were going to get very far with their argument.
shareit's ok, no prob.
weirdraptor didn't anyway. =)
Last post on this page-The Wind Waker is AMAZING!
share[deleted]
You don't like Links Awakening?! I thought that was one of the best ones! I'm not trying to get into an argument, but what don't you like about it?
share.... I have been reading this little rant between the two of you and I would like to offer a little perspective:
No matter who wins an online arguement, everyone looses...
face it, niether of you are going to change each others minds, just let it go...
Um, the other guy happened to be arguing against fact (Miyamoto's ideal Zelda). He claimed that one in a million realistic games makes the whole series, cartoony games included, a realistic game, with cartoony games just happening to be there. The fact is that he prefers cartoon graphics. He is claiming that the Zelda series is realistic. Miyamoto IS Zelda. So Zelda is what Miyamoto wants. And Miyamoto wants cartoony. So Zelda is cartoony.
share[deleted]
it sounds like wankassraptor should just stop playing zelda games ALTOGETHER - either that or just make up his own lame zelda fan game.
he's ignored me, but i'm just gonna say this for the sake of saying it:
ZELDA IS A FANTASY VIDEO GAME. V-I-D-E-O G-A-M-E.
video games were never meant to be realistic .. that is why they are video games. Games ..
nevermind. I'm getting a headache from stupidity again.
I agree about the whole cartonish stuff.
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Yeah, because we all care about what some idiotic fanboy says. "Well, I don't care how many facts he spews out, Zelda should be cartoony based on the opinion of a single man!
Oh, and funny how TWW has, based on majority opinion, worse gameplay than OoT. And TWW's gameplay = Zelda GC 2's. So therefore, they'll rate it lower.
Edit: You gotta wonder how smart a guy is when he can't spell idiocy right. X3
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Well, you can sarcastic about my opinions all you want, but you're also a idiotic fanboy, whether you like it or not. So, I'm not supposed to respect your dim-witted opinion.
<Me> Um, my opinion is that "You can believe it's meant to be realistic, regardless of the fact that everyone involved in Zelda prefers cartoony". Your opinion is "MY OPINION IS FACT! ONE GAME BEING GREAT MEANS THAT ALL GAMES BEING CARTOONY DOESN'T MATTER! LOLLERS!" You basically say that the fact (you know, undisputable?) that the Zelda team in its entirety disagrees with you doesn't matter. If OoT were able to be presented with cartoony graphics, it would be the best Zelda ever. Last time I checked, the Best Feature for OoT was never classified (assuming the person loved the game) as 'it's teh realistic!', it's 'amazing gameplay!'. So, retard, explain why my opinion, which reflects off of 100% factual information, is dim witted? Why is your opinion, which has not only been presented as fact, but has actually been implied by you as more important than the creator? You wouldn't be able to vote on the future of the Zelda series, between you and him. If it were a tie, he'd take the fact that 'It's his game, he is allowed to interpret it however he wants'. You were arguing that Zelda was not meant to be cartoony. Retard. You're reflecting that off of ONE GAME BEING REALISTIC. You don't seem to recognize that Miyamoto has been saying, since Zelda's conception, it's cartoony. It was built on cartoonyness, and until OoT, it was always cartoony. Then came the Oracles. Cartoony. Then came TWW. Cartoony. Both Four Swords games. Minish Cap. All of them, cartoony. From its conception to the future games...
OoS, OoA, LA, LADX, TWW, LoZ, AoL, LttP, TWW, LttP/FS, Classic NES: Zelda, Classic NES: Zelda II, BS Zelda, Zelda Collector's Edition, FSA, TMC, FS DS - seventeen cartoony Zeldas.
MM, OoT, Zelda GC 2, OoT/MQ, Zelda Collector's Edition - Five games.
Majority rules, man. Creator rules, man. Minority don't, you don't.
You have presented no facts as far as I'm concerned.
<Me> Other than the fact that Miyamoto is not on your side?
The upcoming Zelda game will be the best in the series, due to the realistic settings and excellent graphics, along with what looks like a great plot and recent gameplay. So, therefor, I win once and for all. End of discussion. Try again, you brathering mass of sewage.
<Me> Let's see...
Realistic settings - So, great graphics = great game now?
Great plot - Wow! What a great plot! I mean, other than the fact that it doesn't even exist yet, it's so ****ing awesome!
Gameplay - Wow! Even better! Gameplay that, according to the majority opinion, is inferior to OoT's! It'll, somehow, take the unchanged gameplay and magic it better than OoT's!
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#1. Yeah, I know, the whopping zero times I've ever claimed that you don't have the right to want a realistic Zelda? You have stated that Zelda is MEANT TO BE REALISTIC. Not that you prefer it to cartoonish graphics, but you said it IS realistic, because there's one good realistic game.
#2. I noticed long ago that Mr. Raptor is a bit of a wet match. Nothing shocking to be told that.
Edit: #3. And the majority disagrees. You're comparing very well made games to poorly made movies, saying that the majority existing being bad makes the bad ones better.
And they're not even a series. The vast majority of this so-called fantasy movie bull is COMPLETELY UNRELATED. You might as well compare Zelda to technology, and say 'there are more bad things than good!'
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Who the hell are you,Weird Raptor? how should I know who's on your ignore list?
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Oh oh yeah!! sorry.. havent seen you in awhile.
share[deleted]
Im doing fine, ya know? yourself?
share[deleted]
Thats great,buddy, so you know when Zelda on Gamecube comes out?
sharemy friend said sometime next year.
i'm not sure.
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Yeah, next year?!! thats just..wrong, the game looks finshed.
shareYeah, assuming that that is all the game they're gonna make... They have to eliminate a lot of potential bugs, develop more levels, Hell, the trailer might include nothing from the final version!
shareWhy does he hate the Wind Waker so much? Ever since I played a little of it in Best Buy years ago, I knew one day I'd want it. Years later when I finally got the Gamecube that was the first game I bought. I still love it to this day. Anybody who makes fun of the graphics doesn't know anything about cell shading. That was the best cell shading I've ever seen. It has a cute charm.
Personally I can't wait for the new Zelda, but I hope they don't do what Ubisoft did with Prince of Persia Warrior Within. The first game was great, then they decide to go all dark and it ruined it. Once the prince turned into that beast thing I just quit because it was too stupid at that point. I shouldn't have that fear though, I don't think they could screw up a Zelda game if they tried.
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Whats the name of it?
share[deleted]
"Tears of Sorrow?" hmm..interesting.
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Listen the story and therefore the "look" of link is base TOM CRUISE movie you all shpuld stop arguing about how he looks retarded how many times did each of you make link run into a wall jeez
sharewow, havining read all of that (yeah, so i'm bored today) i figured i'd throw in my two cents.
when i was a young (think seven, eight, nine) i spent many a day playing "the legend of zelda." that's right, i was in this series from it's start. and yes, as a kid, i assumed link was also something of a kid. heck, the drawing in the manual show him as a kid. need i say that the art style to the game was cartoony?
the adventure of link, on the other hand, was a waste of a game. supposedly that link is the older version of the link in the original game. great, too bad that game was horrid. it also spawned a horrid tv show, and a tasty cereal. wonder who here remembers all of that. needless to say, this was an attempt at a "realistic" style, as realistic as you can get on a NES.
then, when i was in middle school another game came out. this time it was for the SNES, zelda; a link to the past. and damn, that game was fantastic. i never owned a SNES but i know i rented one just to play it. heh. once again, this link was techincally young. he was what, twelve? yeah, fit perfect for me in middle school. and wow, cartoonish style graphics, again, possibly limited by the SNES capabilities.
i think it was around this point that link's awakening came out, once again, a young link was at the helm, and i also enjoyed this gem of a game. and if this game isn't cartoonish in style, i'll shoot my foot.
now, towards the end of high school, the ocarina of time comes out. i found it to be a fantastic game, the first zelda in the third demension. here link is young and old. but not too old, he's still youthful; and once again perfect to my age. he's sixteen, i was seventeen at the time. this was the first deviation of a "cartoonish" style, but it still was far from realistic. there were over-exageratted charactitures typical to a cartoon style. need i point out the various NPCs? the ranch owner, the guy on a flying carpet, hell... the way the entire races and tribes looked?
majora's mask was a fun game, had some interesting bits in it, but this was back with the younger kid. can't say i truley enjoyed this game, other than zwimming in zora form. but this one was vividly colored ontop of the pseudo-realistic look of the previous game.
wind waker comes out while i'm a junior in college. it's probably one of my favorites, more so than OoT. it got a lot of crap for it's look, but i have to say i think the look fits perfectly into my interpretation of a zelda game. the look made popular by OoT and the SSMB games are deviations, and what new fans seem to prefer. i guess it's just us older gamers who could give a toss less about precieved perceptions on things, and enjoy a game for what it's worth. sure, the sailing in this is monotonous, but then, isn't sailing in general?
so yes, opinion battles are silly and dumb, 'specially on the internet. but judging by the look of the new zelda 2005, i have to say i'm impressed. they have a mature link. a dark look to the world (which i can't say i totally agree with). and, he plays with kittens. perfect.
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Hmmm... "You're a wet match because you won't drop the argument! I'm a perfect match because I... um, won't drop the argument... uh... ZOMG U R TEH STUPID!"
You win, just because of that logic.
Anyway, so, basically...
"If you don't think that OoT is the greatest creation of humanity, you're a 'writhing pile of slime'."
I'm sorry, but the only person that's actually taking this seriously is you. In each one of your post, you use insults a person would normally refer to a terrorist/murderer. What, have I murdered your ideal world of realistic Zelda superiority? You seem to have a problem with the concept of opinion. And the concept of fact, which you have ignored. Again, son, did I ever say "You are not allowed to like realistic Zeldas?" Good luck finding it.
Also, how is it that everytime Zelda's realistic, it's great?
So, out of the dozen or so Zeldas, one game turns out best. Metroid Prime turned out best of 2002. Did Echoes get 2004? Nope. Halo 2 did. GTA: SA did. Echoes didn't. You're ignoring set-in-stone fact that the next Zelda has the EXACT SAME GAMEPLAY as TWW. And that the majority of Zelda fans, based on the people who have actually expressed their opinions on the matter, the OoT gameplay turned out better than TWW's. So, Zelda GC will NOT necessarly be the best. You've seen nothing BUT graphics. You said "Zomg! It's plot is great!" Zomg, guess what? It HAS NO PLOT TO BE SHOWN YET! You're making up **** to make it look better, to power up your "This game, that we know next to nothing about, will be amazing!" OoT turns out amazing. LttP is also amazing. LA is amazing (based on majority opinion). MM is amazing. OoS is amazing, OoA is amazing. Those are considered the top six games. Isn't it funny how there's more cartoony games in that? The top three is generally viewed as 'OoT, LttP, LA'. Not 'OoT, MM, LttP'.
And I noted that you called me 'unfair' to OoT. You want my opinions?
Gameplay's great, story's great, visuals are great (for N64), sound's great.
But my opinion of LttP/
Gameplay's better, story's better, visuals are better, sound's better.
Both are great games. OoT, however, is not the greatest game.
There, you have my opinion, which, apparently, since I don't have 'OoT = God' tattooed on the inside of my eyelids, makes me a writhing pile of slime. Listen, I'd suggest getting an enema. That bug ain't comin' outta your ass any other way.
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Well, it ain't me. Don't state your opinion as fact, lolzarz. The main point of the enema comment was that you have a MAJOR problem with cartoonyism and its fans. I could, and have, said that you have every right to enjoy Zelda the way you like it. And you spoke for the entire free world that Zelda was meant to be realistic - not that it was better as realistic, but that it was MEANT to be realistic.
Anyway, at no point did I say it like you did "Zelda is MEANT TO BE REALISTIC!" I said "Miyamoto prefers cartoony graphics!" There's two differences: You do not have the authority in EAD to say what Zelda is meant to be, and what I said is fact, pure and simple. He DOES prefer it. He WASN'T the one who made Zelda GC 2 realistic. OoT WAS originally cartoony. And Zelda GC 2 won't necessarly be the greatest, based solely on the visuals.
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If the plot is up to par with most Zelda plots, the upcoming game will be the best. Simple as that.
<Me> If. It's the same team that made TWW. The same STORYLINE CREATORS. So, therefore, TWW being bad makes this game bad. Outside of visuals, this game will be on par with TWW.
Oh well, too bad for Miyamoto that OoT was realistic. But it was fantastic for everyone else. Take a hint, Myiamoto, most people who have a lick of sense like realistic Zelda, and all your cartoony ones sell less.
<Me> Oh, again, you said it as fact. And of course, LttP, the six million+ seller, sold less than MM somehow, regardless of how MM is a million seller, if even that. Also, OoT sold less than Super Mario 64. Weird, eh? Cartoony Mario beating realistic Link? All you care about is realism. It could be a God among games, and you'd say "but it's teh kiddeh! It's bad to like it!". You're looking at video games as if they were a ****ing Da Vinchi, where visuals come before, well, anything, because that's all that art is. This is an art, but it isn't a painting. EarthBound is one of the highest rated video games of all time, and it's pretty ****ing butt ugly. There's nothing wrong with preferring realism. What is wrong is saying not preferring realism in a series that wasn't realistic to begin with and wasn't realistic in the end, is wrong somehow, all because they agree with the creator.
Actually, I don't have a problem with cartoonyism, when its in its place, nor do I have a problem with its fans. I just have a problem with YOU.
<Me> Cartoony graphics in a cartoony game series is the perfect place.
Also, list the reasons you don't like me. Is it that I don't state 100% opinion as 100% fact? That I don't, in every post, insult someone with words that are usually attached to murderers and rapists, in response to differing opinion? That my intestines don't tie up in a knot everytime I see a differing opinion?
Disney cartoony films: I have no problem with it there, but only if the cartoonyism matches up with what was intended for the story. Like, say, making "The Little Mermaid" a sickly sweet stroy where everything turns out okay, when in fact, it ended horribly, but the ending actually meant something. OR...making a film adaptation of "The Hunchback of Notre Dam" and "Hercules" cartoon. Those horrid films turned out about as well as "The Wind Waker".
<Me> Yeah... Three million copies sold... the majority of reviews by the professional reviewers AND, say, GameFAQ reviewers (who you would fit in, being a chap with no industry connections). The problem with your views, that everything you say is fact, as if you were King Midas, and your touch was the proverbial Golden Touch, where every line of text you type becomes fact? I'm sorry, but majority opinion vs. no actual evidence supporting a supposed fact, it's not even close to a fair fight. Majority opinion (NOT majority inanimate objects) rules.
Cartoony anthro "Robin Hood": Fine. Cartoony 'Hunchback': Unacceptable.
<Me> I notice you failed to list Titanic, the Disney version.
Once again, the theories you made about me that you pulled out of your ass have been proven wrong. Try again, and try not to fail beyond failing miserably next time.
<Me> There's a problem when I'm pulling facts outta my ass, not theories. It is a fact that the way you express your opinion is "NO, I'M RIGHT!", followed by kicking, screaming and wailing by a pissy baby. You have said that the series is meant to be realistic. You did not say you like it better, you said it was meant to be realistic. What's meant to be is what the creator makes it as. THAT is fact. The only one who has control over Zelda is EAD. And there's only two people who control the new Zelda - Miyamoto and Eiji, Eiji who is putting more into it now that Miyamoto has been aging more.
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The plot for TWW was not all that bad, it was the graphics I hated. Its a fact that Zelda is better when its realistic. Its a simple as that. I don't care if the creators meant for it to be cartoony, its when realistic. And that is a fact. Live with it. I'll stop saying things as fact when you back off and keep your business to yourself from now on.
<Me> Um, facts are ideas with support behind them. On average, LttP is rated higher than MM. MM is realistic. Therefore, it can't be fact. So, until you can, you know, find even EVIDENCE that Zelda is always better when realistic, don't post.
I honestly don't give a *beep* about what Miyamoto prefers, I only care about what I prefer. And I prefer realistic. I don't care if your small, closed mind thinks that its wrong to like the realistic games more than the ridiculous cartoony games of the series. So there. Top that.
<Me> Um, here's the funny thing.
I have stated, in, oh, say, the majority of my posts, that I don't care either way about your preferences for realism. You, however, can't stand when people prefer cartoony visuals. I have said "You can like realistic graphics, but Zelda is meant to be cartoony". If someone likes The Hobbit's visuals better than LotR's visuals, it doesn't make him wrong, and it doesn't make him right. All it means is that that the person has different preferences. Just like you and me. All I have ever stated is what MIYAMOTO wants for it. He and Eiji, he moreso, have ultimate say in the Zelda series. You have every right to say "I think Zelda should be realistic", but you can't say that the series is realistic because half of the realistic games (one) is the highest ranking one. It was the gameplay that made OoT amazing, not the visuals. The only stances I have ever given are:
1. Your right to prefer realism
2. My right to prefer cartoonyism
3. That Miyamoto, who has more say in Zelda's fate, has the right to prefer cartoonyism and declare it a cartoony series. And he has.
I still se no facts that you've listed. Try again, and try not to fail this time.
<Me> You have stated opinion as fact, that it a fact. It is your opinion that it's better as realistic. You can't say it's a fact that it's better as realistic, because there are people who disagree. Gravity doesn't have two sides.
Face it, you're not going to convince that cartoony is better. And no, you don' thave to say it, the fact that you just won't give up and trying to force your opinion on my says it all. If you had just left me alone we wouldn't be here, would we?
<Me> I never tried to convince you of 'cartoonyness superiority', the only thing I try to convince to you is that it's not your series, that you can't declare anything as fact without being able to prove it. Zelda came from Miyamoto's mind, Miyamoto created it as cartoony. Whether or not you like that fact is not my concern, you just have to accept it, go enjoy OoT, MM and Zelda GC 2. And I chimed in because you were acting like a pompous jerk in the argument of cartoony vs. realistic, demanding that people agree that the series was made to be realistic, which it wasn't. Again, your opinion of the two visual styles has every right to exist, but it does not take precedence over anyone else's opinion. Don't talk about anyone forcing anything onto anyone, when you're the one declaring opinions as facts.
wankassraptor, true zelda fans like zelda because it's ZELDA, not cause they are shallow *beep* like you who only care about how the game looks.
Have you ever played the original legend of zelda games on the nes? they didn't exactly start out as "realistic" .. cause like i've said for what seems like the millionth time: ZELDA IS A *FANTASY* (that means, "not real") game that ISN'T SUPPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC IN THE FIRST PLACE. Do you know what a game is? more specifically, a video game? it isn't real life .. it's when you PLAY a character in a fantasy world.
.. that's not to say that miyamoto can't create "realistic" zelda games .. he can do what he chooses, he CREATED the series. But, that's just the thing. Zelda is his world, that he created - if he wanted to make it in *any* design, he could.
miyamoto's games sell because people love them - and i'm quite sure windwaker did just as well.
but hey, if you want a "realistic" zelda to appease you, stop complaining and just play "Realistic" zelda games, or better yet .. make your own!
you will be better then that DUMB shigeru miyamoto anywayz! omg liek cool!
oh, and the "OMG SUPER COOL REALISTIC" game should be coming out sometime next year!
wow, it looks cool! Seriously, it does. Maybe it will shut all the whiny shallow *beep* up, but I can't be totally sure just yet.
but, wankassraptor blocked me, so apparently he'll just stay stupid. Kinda sad ..
something cool I found:
->> http://www.planetgamecube.com/news.cfm?action=item&id=3783
kaze no takuto relased in japan.
maybe it was more popular over there.
whatever the case, japanese fans probably appreciated it more there, because unlike here, creativity and being original isn't considered "bad" like it is here.
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And you've proven, time and time again, the same thing. Your best posts aren't anything witty or particuarly smart. Example:
"who carez what miyamoto wants, he only created the series and knows nothing!! i KNOWZ ALL!!! the games were meant to be this way and this way, only miyamoto doesn't know it yeT!!!!"
um, I think he would know everything about the series .. since, he, um ONLY CREATED IT.
"Yeah, you'd like to think that you're better than me, wouldn't you? When, in fact, all you've proven is that you're moronic jerk. "
yes, "I moronic jerk". You .. tarzan?
Maybe you don't get the real point of playing video games. Maybe .. someone with only 4 brain cells, was never meant to play video games with actual storylines. Maybe they were only meant to sit in front of the TV, motionless .. and DROOL at the screen and all the shiny happy pixels without blinking.
I wonder .. how you even know how to read. I would think, that growing up as child, you only had PICTURE books, because pictures are so much cooler and prettier then actual words. Words are so boring, blah! I don't want to absorb information, I just want to look at pretty pictures!!
See, back in my day, in the 80's .. we played games because they were fun. We were not spoiled, shallow little image obssessed freaks who complained about how a game looked rather then how it played. Or at least - me and the people I played with weren't.
the very first video games had very little eye-candy at all .. a all black screen with 2 white paddles and a small white ball that bounced back and forth. You didn't hear anyone going at the time "wow, man this blows. I want MULTI-COLORED PATTLES AND A ORANGE BACKGROUND. THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE!!"
There are MANY sucky games out there that look shiny and "XTREEME" and cool, but the playing and everything else blows. If you care about graphics so much, then go find one of those games, there are plenty.
"The graphics of a game are very important. Yeah, a cool plot is a cool plot, but if you don't have the right look to go with it, its worthless. That's why a lot of anime stinks. The story is the redeeming quality to me, but I hate the animation. I hate the graphics of TWW and by the time I got done with the game, I really wished they'd gone with a different look for it. "
well hey - maybe that is why miyamoto and his crew are making a "OMG REALISTICC!!" zelda game, to shut people like you up. Maybe you will also find something to complain about in that game too? time will only tell.
Actually, since originality is appreciated more in japan then it is here, I think it was the cel-shading that made his game stand out. It was quite fluent and detailed, very bright and colorful, and I thought it wouldn't have looked better any other way. But .. that's just my own "mature" opinion.
I really don't see the problem with it - the nes had very simple flat pixels, the snes had more detailed "sprite" pixel graphics, no one complained - the gameboy had black and white graphics, no one complained; and then the windwaker came out on the gamecube with a totally new style and suddenly, all 13-year old fanboys get their panties all in a twist .. because we know different is always bad. Shame on miyamoto for not being a follower and doing what every one else does!
You should try writing him and letter and telling him where he went wrong with his own franchise. Give him some of your wisdom.
You can start off as:
"Dear. Mr. Miyamoto. You suck. You don't even know how to make your own games correctly. The whole zelda series was originally meant to be realistic and not a fantasy, and you just don't know it yet. Make all your games the same way just to please me, because I am god. Your own ideasfor your own series don't matter, so what if you're the creator? I want what I want, wah wah!
signed,
a loyal and true zelda fan*
PS: * (ONLY when you make games with super-realistic graphics.)"
Maybe .. if you put all your heart and soul into it, he will make you the new president of nintendo! (only, that might require him to be in a drug-induced coma and smoke 29 pounds of crack first.)
make your own video game, create it from scratch, start your own video game empire, plan it all out, then you will get the right to complain about how graphics suck. When you can actually create your own.
hey, just curious .. are you this shallow with people in real life too?
wait no .. actually, don't answer that. I seriously don't want to know.
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ok, it may seem like a hard concept for you to grasp ..
but if you worship the "OOT" look, why don't you just play .. OOT and stop complaining about all the other zelda games you hate?
makes sense to me.
well yea .. but most people "from my generation" don't whine about graphics, they simply .. just stay away from all the games they hate, unlike 13 year old fanboys who like to whine about everything under the sun.
and if they do take the time to whine about it, well then, they probably are really just mentally 12.
there are many great zelda games with good villains .. just because *ONE GAME IN THE FREAKING SERIES* went all super cartoony, doesn't mean there can't be games that stray from what is considered "the norm" sometimes. It is, regardless of what you may believe, a fantasy series. You like the realistic look better - that's fine. Just don't say that all zelda games have to conform to that, because quite frankly, that would get boring and very old, very, very, quickly.
Based on the fact that past zelda games always almost used bright colors and non-realistic graphics .. one would conclude that it's that way because it's a fantasy video game. I mean, the series was once actually turned into (a badly animated and quite badly acted) cartoon once, so it kinda doesn't make sense to me why everyone freaks out that zelda isn't super realistic all the time.
People from "my generation" that were born in the early 80's when some of the first nintendo games such as zelda and mario came out, remember those games cause of the impact and memories they gave us .. fortunately, we were not born in the hyper-spoiled-technology age where everything needs to look realistic and games need to LOOK better then they play.
And, you're also assuming that just because the windwaker used what most people consider just "cartoony cellshading", that it must have been cheaper, less expensive, didn't use the full potential of the gamecube, and must have been less involved then the other games, let me let you in on some of the specs of how the windwaker was made (plus a article that explains why they chose cellshading above any other type of "normal" design):
--> http://www.ntsc-uk.com/MainContent/Gamecube/ZeldaWindsOfTakuto/ZeldaWindWaker.htm
excerpt from the article:
"The graphical style in this latest outing may possibly be how the artists always imagined Link's world to be. For once, the artwork on the box is the same as the artwork in the game. It's perhaps the vision they had all along, only now freed from technological constraints. The decision to give proceedings a slightly cell-shaded feel is entirely vindicated. The animation of the characters, the expressions on their faces (ranging from anger, glee and exasperation to wide-eyed astonishment) create a sense of realism and emotion that goes way beyond anything that could have been achieved by simply increasing the resolution and modelling everything in minute detail.
However a word of warning. In the week I spent playing through the game, an alarming number of Zelda fans who came to visit, dismissed the game after only 30 minutes (and had completely lost interest within an hour) with comments such as 'Oh no! It's a cartoon' or 'Why have they made it just for kids?' This is going to be a significant hurdle for Nintendo if they wish to emulate the success of the previous games in North America, and to a lesser extent Japan. Ironically, 'Kaze No Takuto' is the most compelling, life-consuming game experience I've had for maybe two or three years. Self-proclaimed 'fans' that cannot adjust to a graphical change of direction will be denying themselves something very special. "
MPU (Microprocessor Unit): 485 MHz custom IBM PowerPC Gekko
Graphics Processor: 162 MHz custom ATI/Nintendo Flipper
Texture-Read Bandwidth: 10.4 GB per second (peak)
Main Memory Bandwidth: 2.6 GB per second (peak)
Pixel Depth: 24-bit color, 24-bit Z buffer
Sound Processor: 81 MHz custom Macronix 16-bit DSP
Sound Performance: 64 simultaneous channels, ADPCM encoding
Polygon Performance: 6 to 12 million polygons per second (peak)
System Memory: 40 MB
Main Memory: 24 MB MoSys 1T-SRAM
Disc Drive: 128 ms CAV (Constant Angular Velocity) system
Data Transfer Speed: 16 Mbps to 25 Mbps
Media: 3-inch, 1.5 GB capacity disc
Controller Ports: Four
Memory Card Slots: Two
Audio-Video Output: Analog and digital
Dimensions: 4.3 by 5.9 by 6.3 inches (height by width by depth)
oh, and by the way, the cellshading is highly expensive and difficult process. I hardly see how it could not live up to today's techology, especially when cellshading allowed more fluency then graphics on the N64 did, more detailed facial expressions, less pixels, no "polygon seams" and little to no "pop-up" polygons like you would see in the N64.
besides .. OOT was made in the late 90's, right? techology has advanced since then; TWW was released sometime in 2002. Even though OOT was a great game I enjoyed playing, there are many things that the graphics allowed the windwaker to do that the graphics in the N64 could not. For examples, copy and paste the link to the article above in your browser.
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"Oh, so TWW graphics allow you to illegally, take images from the game and put them on your browser? Cool! Way to go! I think I'll stick to doing stuff that doesn't make me question the morality of it. "
i'm sorry .. I lost you .. what the HELL are you talking about?
"Remember, its you who kept this argument going, Mr. I'm-So-Much-More-Mature-Than-You-Even-Though-I-Can't-Keep-My-Business-To-Myself. "
i'm a mrs. =)
unless you meet alot of guys with "moonlight" in their name.
and, i'm not the only one flinging judgements and insults around here, am I?
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Weird thing, Raptor, the only person that has stated their opinion as fact. If you can't show me where I stated that, my opinion (without referring to it), is fact? My opinion being that the series is cartoony. And referring to the fact that the creator has never swayed from that does not count as an opinion.
Also, arguing isn't immature. What's immature is referring to the opponenet as a scum sucker, which, apparently, is totally warranted, because I've scarred you so much with my crazy concept of opinions invading your 'One and only opinion' world.
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Because he's on Nintendo's payroll, and if he refused orders to make N64 Zeldas, he wouldn't be on it for very long. Plus, he wanted to innovate with 3D. Wanting Zelda to be cartoony doesn't translate to hating realism. And again, he's not gonna walk up to Eiji and direct him how to direct Zelda. Eiji is in charge of it, and Eiji made it realistic.
Oh, and again... arguments =/= immature. A mature argument comes around when one side isn't referring anyone who disagrees with them as scum suckers. And here's a fun idea, back off. You tell me to back off, and plant your feet into the ground in this argument. If you're not unrelenting, back off, then. And if I started it, why was the argument started by me responding to you? The argument was started by you saying "I win, everything I say is fact, you're a scum sucking amoeba!" Everything you said was followed with one of the three. You said Adult Link was gonna overtake Link based on absolute nothingness (other than Adult Link as a transformation in OoT and in an upcoming game). And you would still be arguing if I left with the rest of them.
"Don't think you know so well, girlie. If the series is so cartoony, then why didn't Miyamoto just make OoT and MM gameboy games, instead of being willing to take an alternative route with realitic graphics? How come he's willing to let this upcoming one be made? If he has never swayed from that, how come he allows the things he's been allowing be to done? The answer: he also considers Zelda's potential for realism, so there. "
um, sorry. Still really can't understand your point. Miyamoto and his team are DESIGNERS / PRODUCERS .. it's their job to be creative and different. Creative and different doesn't mean making every single game the same with the same graphics. I think, that because miyamoto chose what he chose for the windwaker, that it stood out in the sea of "normal realistic" graphics. Besides, it's just ONE GAME IN THE SERIES that happened to be different, so maybe you should try opening your mind a bit more and realize that not everything needs to conform to your cookie-cutter-pleas e-me-only-ideals, including video games.
"You took that image without asking the Nintendo Company if you could, so therefor, you just stole something from them, at least you couldn't steal from the OoT images. Like I said, I think I'll stick to doing things that don't make me question the morality of them."
Dude, what I did was called "POSTING A WEB ADDRESS" .. don't know if you know alot about it, but what I did was just post the address of THAT PAGE to this board, I didn't "steal any images". Stealing the images would require me to post them on my site and say i've created them, which I never did. Uh, and how exactly is posting a link to a webpage "stealing images?" explain that to me. it isn't my site, if that's what you thought.
"Like I said, I think I'll stick to doing things that don't make me question the morality of them."
maybe you should "stick to things" that make you less stupid, and that includes arguing with people who have more brain cells then you do.
"I hate TWW because it started this stupid fling that Zelda games should be overly cartoony, easy to beat, and childish. For Pete's sake, at least ALttP had a great plot with drama in it. "
yea .. as far as I know, zelda was *always* cartoony -- TWW didn't start that. So .. kinda don't see your point? it STARTED OUT AS CARTOONY. *ONLY*, and let me stress ONLY, was zelda given a "realistic" look on the N64, in OOT, MM, and the E3 windwaker demo, including the new upcoming gamecube game. It started OUT that way. It was MADE THAT WAY. Um, duh ..? zelda never started out realistic in the first place .. so, sorry.
And, Zeldaalttp, you're using logic when reasoning with this guy. Don't do that anymore, because he cannot wrap his mind around what anyone is talking about unless they blindly agree with him. Type slower and use less words and confusing questions, and maybe he will understand better.
Oh, shutup moonlight! You're such a scum sucking loser!
>.>
<.<
Isn't that a great WeirdRaptor impersonation? Tee hee.
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#1. "You stupid, retarded, scum sucking juvenile deliquents". That's the usual statement from you... Pot? Kettle? Black?
#2. CAPCOM developed TMC, FSA and FS. TWW was developed by Aonuma. TWW is clearly inbetween OoT/MM and LttP.
#3. TWW sold near four million copies. That's selling good in my book.
#4. Because I don't? ****, the game is in my top 60 for Christ's sake. The problem with the concept of me having a problem with you liking OoT is at a stand still: there's no post where I even imply that idea.
#5. This argument wouldn't even be at this point if you argued with your head out of your ass. "Well, the creators say this, but I say this!" That is the kind of argument that turns a debate sour. Your opinion isn't relevent to fact.
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wierdraptor, I'm gonna respond to that bunch of steaming, nonsensical crap, with "no sorry, zelda is a fantasy series. It was never meant to be realistic in the first place, hence the words "FANTASY" "SERIES".
This doesn't mean I have a problem with zelda being realistic; I actually can't wait to get the new game. But I have a problem with someone who insists that it was ALWAYS MEANT TO BE realistic, cause it wasn't. It isn't REEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL. Not. Real. Video. game. meant. to. be. just. for. fun.
"TWW started the whole trend of terrible Zelda games like FS, FSA, and TMC, which have NOTHING to do with anything else in the series."
Um, all zelda games fit SOMEWHERE in the storyline, otherwise they wouldn't be created. Nintendo doesn't create them out of nowhere. And i'm sorry .. what are "FS", "FSA", and "TMC", and what do they have to do with TWW? .. do you mean TWW inspired other games to be original and different? OMG WHAT A CRIME!!!!!!
and .. what exactly does the link to that forum show me? the picture is done windwaker style. What does that show me?
Oh wait, since you're posting a LINK TO A SITE, like I did up there, maybe I should go "OMG UR STEALING IMAGES FROM NINTENDO! OMG OMGZ!"
"no, Zelda may have been somewhat cartoony, but it wasn't overly and deliberately childish cartoony!"
are you blind, or just naturally this stupid? .. it started out from the very beggining as cartoony. RIGHT from the beggining. You fought multi-colored monsters, collected red hearts all over the place, and got healed by faries .. tried to save a princess of a kingdom with magical powers .. how is that not "overly and deliberately childish and cartoony?"
Maybe you don't know that there is more then ONE link. Therefore, the link you play in the windwaker is not the same link you play in the other games; it's a new link, somewhere in the future. Miyamoto explained this himself - that even the windwaker took place AFTER the events of OOT and MM, so .. how exactly does TWW *NOT* fit in the storyline? are you a freaking moron to not realize that?
"TWW was not. Well, at least as a Zelda game. Zelda games are not meant to be water travels. They're meant to be land based adventures, like all the others of the series. "
and that's your own stupid opinion. As in not fact. Stop trying to pass off the crap you spout about the series AS fact. If the creator made it into a "seas adventure", and he created the series, then it WAS meant to be "water travels". Duh, you still can't grasp the fact that WHAT EVER THE CREATOR does, is what he does. How can he be "Wrong" about his own creation?
if you created a painting that was blue, and someone tries to convince YOU that it was always meant to be orange, what are you going to say to that person?
"Now, are you willing to back off and stop being the primitive screwheads that you've been making yourselves out to be or shall we continue this pointless argument. I still don't see why you just don't come out and admit that you have a problem with me liking OoT more than any other Zelda game. You obviously won't leave me alone about my views that Zelda should have realistic graphics, so admit that you have a problem with that, too. Come on. Stop trying to be so high mighty. I can see right past your little smoke and mirrors act and see you for the thugs that you are. "
the problem I have with you is not about what you LIKE .. like whatever you choose. The problem I have with you is that you're trying to convince me that your opinion is fact, when it isn't. If it's your opinion that zelda was, somehow, "supposed" to be "realistic" despite the fact that it well, wasn't, then you can think that. Just don't try and convince me that the sky is purple with orange specks with it is SO CLEARLY not.
"TWW has no place in the timeline, nor will I ever include it. "
well, that's pretty sad (and stupid), since when you go into almost any zelda domain or site, TWW is included with all the other games, and so OBVIOUSLY DOES fit in with the storyline. Fine if you hate the game, that's great, but please, stop with the "TWW doesn't belong cause I hate it and everything else because I dislike anything different" crap. Fine you don't like the game. I don't like brussel sprouts either, but I don't claim that they don't exist or don't belong simply because I dislike them.
LOL .. and i'm a "thug?" what the hell kind of crack are you smoking? I want some.
oh, weirdraptor, do you have AIM or yahoo messenger? message me on the name moonlightkisu.
I'm on!
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Yea .. i'm sorry. I've TRIED to be civil, but that's usually really really hard with someone so stupid.
"Just because the creator decided to do something doesn't make it the right move. So there. If Zelda were meant to be high seas adventures, why did Miyamoto make it land-based for so many games? Oh, and Fs, FSA, and TMC, are far less cretive than, pretty much, ALL the previous games. "
no, you're right, maybe not all creators do what's best for their creations. But I don't see any evidence of that with miyamoto and zelda. He's a smart man, he's isn't blind and he isn't stupid. If you're trying to convince me that TWW was a "bad move". sorry, keep trying. Unlike you, i'm not so arrogant to believe the creator himself doesn't know what he's doing.
"1. Tolkien thought that "The Silmarillion" was his masterpiece, but I'd rather read "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Hobbit".
2. The creators of "CSI" thought it would be a great idea to keep starting new series, but in fact, they're a total waste of celluloid.
3. The creators of the original film "Watership Down" film thought it would be a good idea to make an animated TV show and make one of the characters that was formerly male, a doe. "
while all of that may be true, it has nothing to do with zelda. I have complete faith, that unlike those creators, miyamoto actually KNOWS what he's doing.
"As far as I'm concerned, a timeline can easily be made without using TWW in it, AT ALL. Which I have and still do. So there. TWW isn't a true Zelda game, no matter how much Miyamoto would love for us to believe it. It did not capture the spirit of the games at all. At least one can respect ALttP, but I cannot respect TWW. By the way, if TWW is part of the timeline, how come ALttP makes no mention of the kingdom being destroyed, then rebuild? Why no mention of a flood? "
this is the problem I have with you. You keep insisting that, because YOU didn't like the game, that it doesn't belong in the series, etc etc, blah, blah. Of COURSE it belongs in the series, it's a zelda game. Alot of people disliked majora's mask, but just because THEY disliked it, does that mean it doesn't "deserve" to be with the others, or isn't a "true" zelda game?
so, because I dislike peas or carrots, they aren't real vegatables to me, and they shouldn't even exist, right?
"As far as I'm concerned, a timeline can easily be made without using TWW in it, AT ALL?"
yea probably. But then what's the point of creating NEW games? then you could also apply that to every other game in the series and debate if it actually belongs there or not.
I mean, hey, I wasn't super crazy about majora's mask, but I didn't hate it. That doesn't mean I like, tried to pretend it doesn't exist.
"So there. TWW isn't a true Zelda game, no matter how much Miyamoto would love for us to believe it. It did not capture the spirit of the games at all. "
well, sorry, that's just your opinion. But I have a feeling you'd like everyone else on the face of the earth, to believe that as if it were actual fact, which it isn't.
SO THERE! PEAS AREN'T A TRUE VEGETABLE, NO MATTER HOW PEOPLE WHO GROW THEM WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE!! THEY DON'T CAPTURE THE TRUE SPIRIT OF VEGETABLES!
.. and please, stop saying "so there" as if you actually succeeded in proving a point, it kinda reminds me of my five year old pouting nephew.
"By the way, I don't want to send any messages TO YOU! "
aww, that's too bad. You don't even want to debate with me on aim? I mean, you're sending messages to me right now, so, what's the difference?
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"OoT is definitely one of the two best Zelda games out there ("A Link to the Past" being the other). Oh well, you may disagree, but I win this argument. The upcoming Zelda game is going to be like OoT and MM. I win, you lose. End of discussion."
There's the first time you forced your opinion on me. Show me a flame of mine before that point.
List of flames before I flamed you:
"Yeah, I'd hide from Zeldaalttp, too, he seems like a being wind bag of hot air."
""Super Smash Bros." and "Super Smash Bros. Melee", you moron."
And here's a flame in response to a flame.
<Me> Oh! So, what, that made how much sense? None? Yar. MIYAMOTO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH EITHER. Idiot.
So, therefore, your flaming and forcing of opinion is the sole cause of this argument. You're clinging to this argument, saying you're the saint of said argument, because you only forced your opinion on me when I flamed you (false), and you flamed me when I flamed you (also false).
Also, LoZ is never mentioned in LttP. Does it fall outta the timeline? Nope.
TWW has Saria, Zelda, Darunia, Ruto, Impa, Nabooru and Rauru paint glass windows. What, is it coincidence that they were in Hyrule Castle? Nope. They are from EAD. Therefore, everyone outside of EAD could hate it and it would never be removed from the timeline.
This is the timeline.
TMC
OoT
MM
TWW
LttP
LA
LoZ
AoL
It's Nintendo EAD vs. j00. Nintendo EAD said that OoT was first (at the time). The manual for LA says that it comes after LttP. AoL is five years after LoZ. TWW is centuries after the events of OoT (undebatable). LttP is somewhere after OoT and before LoZ. TMC is earliest, because many items from future games are created, and techniques that Link usually knows are taught to him by the Blade Brothers. MM is three months after.
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...No, I told you to shut up because you were acting like the poor ol' persecuted minority, and got pissy at the guy. Anyone would have come in and told you to shut up. The concept of a forum is the exchange of free thought. You were both in the wrong. He said, pretty much, that people can't express negative opinions, which is elitist and stupid, but then you go around and refer to him as a prick in defending the anti-Zelda TWWers. I was telling you to shut up because you were just insulting the person for saying his opinion. It's my opinion that a forum is more for fans than anti-fans. And it is. Doesn't make it only for fans, and he never stated it as fact. You started complaining about what he said, so I told you to shut up, or, stop complaining. No one cares what you say, because no one cares what anyone says on these forums. Which includes not caring that some idiot thinks a forum's topics should never escape the realm of "this rox0rz."
shareif didn't like cell shading of LOZ:WW u didn't have to buy it. you played the game even though u knew what the graphics looked like. stop complaining WW was a great game.
shareToo be considered an adult dont you have to be 18??? lol jk. I loved TWW it is one of my favorite games. I seriously dont give a *beep* what Link Im playing, as long as the story is good and the gameplay. OoT to me was more of a mix of cartoonish and realistic graphics. More of the major characters were realistic, but many NPCs looked sorta cartoony to me. Such as Talon, the Kokiri, the Gorons, and some enemies. The same goes for MM. But does it really matter what Link looks like? I really dont give a *beep*
French Soldier: Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of silly persons!share
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Why should I learn to live with your opinion when you cant with mine? I would respect your opinion if you hadnt bashed mine.
French Soldier: Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of silly persons!share
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WeirdRaptor, games should be judged on it's gameplay and fun factor, not graphics.
While graphics are an important factor, they are not the most important.
If there's a game with bad graphics but is fun to play, and one with "UBER SWETEISH GRAFIX!!!11!!!!" but the gameplay sucks, I'm going to go with the 1st choice.
And so far, I think TWW is better than OoT, personally. But thats my opinon.
And this new game "Twilight Princess" is more dark a story line so more realistic graphics are needed.
And TWW didn't have bad graphics. It was cartoony because the plot wasn't as dark as OoT, it would be weird having all realistic graphics for TWW's plot, because the art style doesn't fit the story. Carttony graphics don't fit TP more dark oriented story, as a Realistic look doesn't fit TWW's more toned down adventure.
Also, WR, I say, with you calling zeldalttp all those names such as idiot and moron, I say the only people who are retarded, or stupid, or idiotic are people who put people down and call others names based on their opinons. While I don't agree with zeldaalttp's motive of trying to preswade your opinon, as obviously, your not going to change your mind on your simingly one sided mind, (zeldaalttp doesn't seem to be bashing the more realistic Zeldas, infact he seems to like them). But I still think that he is more mature than you for the fact that he didn't call you a retard or moron or anything (that I'm aware of, I'm pretty sure he didn't).
I think the "kiddy"(/sarcasm) look fits the Zelda seires more, seeing as most of the Zelda games aren't dark and mature (not that those games aren't welcomed.)
And techneclly(sp), this games Link is suppose to be a teen, not an adult. (but not a kid either ~_^ )
And now,
I'm not going to be responding to this thread so there is no bothering complaining about your opinon to me.
All this is my opinon, btw.
So, whatever.
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