MovieChat Forums > 25th Hour (2003) Discussion > You'll hate this unless you - like Spike...

You'll hate this unless you - like Spike - think we deserved 9/11.

posted 16 years ago by DoctorStrangelove
65 replies | jump to latest

Barry Pepper's entire speech about how Monte deserves his sentence (because, despite being a nice guy, he really really did profit from the misery of others!) is the explanation for all of the 9/11 imagery in this 'joint'. It seems like all the hater posts on IMDb bring up that scene, and mention how pointless and cheap it was to use the WTC site in the background... well, it wasn't pointless. Good directors have a reason for everything, and Lee's reason is that Pepper was really talking about how America deserved 9/11.

Everyone should already be aware that Spike Lee is a ignorant, racist jerk, to put it mildly (if you're not aware of that, you haven't done your homework). But the bait-and-switch tactic of putting his own brand of sociopathic America-hating agitprop in a movie which is ostensibly about a guy going to prison makes Lee a real scumbag - since he abuses your trust and does NOT intend to entertain you - and it pushed this movie past simply BAD and into ABOMINABLE.

You should know that I continued watching after that scene with Pepper and Hoffman. I stuck through the pointless, jarring, out-of-place "F YOU" diatribe.... and gave the film 15 more minutes. But even after 45 minutes, this awful excuse for a story still had ZERO character development, ZERO direction and gave me ZERO reason to care about anything happening onscreen. What a waste of time.

The Doctor is out. Far out.

[–] mail-2775 16 years ago

Good post.

This was a good movie, too, though, and didn't really cover any ground at all in 45 minutes, so you might watch the whole thing.

[–] DoctorStrangelove 16 years ago

Who knows... one day I might. I'd like to see Spike Lee mature and grow a few respectably non-racist braincells first, though.

The Doctor is out. Far out.

[–] Rodan603 16 years ago

There is no doubt at all that Ground Zero is important and meaningful for that particular scene. The set the tone and Lee pretty much told the viewer that the background isn't just coincidence when he used several close-ups of the site. However, interpretations can from many different angles. Does Spike Lee think that America brought 9/11 on itself? Maybe. I really wouldn't put it past him because he has a few interesting ideas on many subjects. I interpreted the scene as this: The World Trade Center represented an abundance of wealth and prosperity and it all came crashing down just like that. No one expected it to happen and took it all for granted, but it happened. I thought that was a direct reference to Monty's position. In Lee's close-ups we see a piece of land had the most iconic buildings in the world on top, but now it is very dark and very empty. Buildings that dwarfed everything around them are now the lowest of them all. Even Monty's friends are looking down at Ground Zero, looking down at him now, at the disaster his life has become. Perhaps you are right about Lee presenting his idea that America brought it on itself but you'd be a fool to assume it as fact. Lee's commentary on the scene does not mention anything about what you just said.

[–] HankTuff 15 years ago

Why is hating America bad?

[–] carver76 15 years ago

I feel the same way about the 40 seconds I lost out of my life reading your idiotic post. Go watch Glenn Beck...

[–] DoctorStrangelove 15 years ago

Typical doofwad kneejerk liberal response: an insult and a Beck reference. That's all you 'know'.

Watch if you have the guts: http://www.pjtv.com/v/2734

And oh yeah - you're a liar. You didn't read my post.

The Doctor is out. Far out.

[–] carver76 15 years ago

I can't get over the irony of a granite-headed moron like you having "DoctorStrangelove" as his username. All through that movie, you were probably rooting for the war...

[–] DoctorStrangelove 15 years ago

There's nothing like describing a total stranger to himself, over the internet, for showing the world what a clueless tool you are.

(And I don't hear you protesting that you DID read my post. Thanks for proving me right! Enjoy my ignore list.)

The Doctor is out. Far out.

[–] carver76 15 years ago

That's a typical Bill O'Reilly move right there. Someone disagrees with me, I'll just tune them out, and put my fingers in my ears...Lalalalalalalalala, I can't hear youuuuuuuu.....

[–] sourpuss 15 years ago

I think the OP is really joking. It is quite a stretch to imagine that Francis blaming Monty for his own problems is a METAPHOR for Spike Lee blaming America for 9/11. It is even more unreasonable because Francis doesn't really believe Monty deservves it. Francis puts a front the entire film. But in the end, he (like many characters in the film) blame himself for Monty's problems.

Everyone who has seen Spike Lee's films knows how much he loves New York City (and knows he is NOT a racist). A little radical maybe but not a racist.

To not like a film becuase you feel it lacks character development is valid. But to try to find something that isn't there is just pointless.

[–] DoctorStrangelove 15 years ago

Absolutely not joking or trolling.

You seem quite blind to what was happening in the relevant scene. And you don't seem to have any knowledge of Lee's several controversial (and widely reported by real media outlets) racially-provocative statements. Look 'em up.

The Doctor is out. Far out.

[–] businesstime12 12 years ago

Late to the game here, but all this back in forth is pretty indicative of the banter between Alec Baldwin and Liz Lemon on 30 Rock. Now that 3 years have passed, it would be interesting to hear back on how the opinion and ideologies of those who took part on the original discussion have changed.

[–] johndeckbose 9 years ago

Of all the possible links in the world, you suggest someone as pedestrian as Andrew Klavan and warn that "guts" may be needed to handle the link.

Good lord, the only thing needed to handle Klavan are massive doses of No-Doz. Your suggestion that Klavan's banal rhetoric requires a cautionary preface is only matched in absurdity by your plodding discourse. I'm going to hope and pray that, in the last 6 years -- a period of wholesale Republican implosion capped off by the current conservative adoration of the imbecilic Donald Trump -- you've actually learned some truth about the world. For example: put enough Republicans in power and the damage is both swift and catastrophic. That is undeniable, unless, I suppose, you live in a bubble and dissemble for a living.

The only relevant question at this point is, can a man who uses a term like "doofwad" ever grow and learn?

That answer, sadly, is self-evident.

[–] DoctorStrangelove 15 years ago

Yeah, I think I'm gonna go ahead and report you for sending threatening messages to another user. I'll let the admins deal with you.

The Doctor is out. Far out.

[–] sourpuss 15 years ago

I'm not saying the scene doesn't have relevance. I'm simply saying that I don't take away from that scene what you are taking away. And you are the ONLY person or reviewer I've heard make this argument. If there are others, please...I would love to read them.

Also, I know Spike Lee has made racially provacative statements. I don't think this means he's a racist. You are of course entitled to think he's a racist. I personally don't think so.

[–] DoctorStrangelove 15 years ago

Well at least you know I didn't steal my critique from someone else.

The Doctor is out. Far out.

[–] Kiwifalling 15 years ago

I stuck through the pointless, jarring, out-of-place "F YOU" diatribe

It wasn't out of place at all. Monty's furious at the world right now. He's trying to direct the blame at everyone else, aka it was just an extended "f@ck the world" speech, which isn't exactly alien to a man who's going to prison for the next seven years. If you notice, he even includes himself at the end.

And if you bothered to watch the entire movie, down to the brilliant ending sequence, I think you'd change your mind about Spike Lee hating America. Besides, "hate" is a little too simplistic. He's obviously not a happy little patriot, it's more of a obsession mixed with love and exasperation. He views it, especially New York, in all its polluted, tough, and tender glory. But at least he spends a hell of a lot more time thinking about it than the average American. With the kind of attention he gives to it (again, PLEASE watch the last fifteen minutes. I think it will totally erase any doubt that the movie was an elegiac tribute to the nation), I think it deserves better than a kneejerk "you're a racist" kind of reaction, either.

[–] tyrexden 11 years ago

First off, Spike is a New Yorker, through and through. The events of 9/11 impacted him on a level beyond what you'll ever understand.

Secondly, are you contending that Americans don't profit off the misery of others? He's not saying anyone 'deserves' anything... He's simply point out that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.... This isn't a political statement, its science.

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[–] katalist420 11 years ago

Not true at all, it is one of my favorite movies and I don't think america deserved 911. You only saw 45 minutes of the movie.... maybe watch the whole thing and you might get some character development. Who watches 45mins of a movies then bitches about it have zero direction and zero character development, give me a break. I hate spike lee as aperson but this movie, Malcolm X and Do The Right thing are all fantastic movies.

[–] ch-c-carter 11 years ago

Spike Lee is a ignorant, racist jerk, to put it mildly

Good directors have a reason for everything

He's ignorant yet a good director?

"When you want to negate someone’s message and work, you say things like, he’s a racist and hope they catch on and the work gets dismissed. It’s the very old trick they do in politics, and in art."

-- Spike Lee