In Diagon Alley, Hermione fixes Harry's glasses, using magic outside school. This is illegal and, in the third book/film, nearly gets Harry expelled. Why would such a hard working good student risk that?
share"in the third book/film, nearly gets Harry expelled.
Actually Harry was warned in the second book and nearly expelled in the fifth book (the magic was performed in the presense if a muggle). He was forgiven his use of magic in the third book because it was uncontrolled magic. Hermione performed magic in a public place surrounded by hundreds of magic users so it was impossible for the ministry to detect her.
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain (Isaac Asimov)
Harry was let off in the 3rd book because they wanted him protected with Sirius Black on the loose and had bigger things to worry about and because it was uncontrolled magic and he didn't really do it on purpose.
Hermione did her spell in full knowledge of the consequences and surely would have been caught as someone in that street full of witches and wizards will have seen an obviously underage witch casting a spell.
"Hermione did her spell in full knowledge of the consequences and surely would have been caught as someone in that street full of witches and wizards will have seen an obviously underage witch casting a spell."
doubtful. few if any adults would pay much attention to two kids. And what would they do. report her to the ministry. and what would they report. this little girl used magic. we don't know who she is. we don't know where she went.
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain (Isaac Asimov)
Hmmm, well if ya wanna get really finicky about the matter Hermione could've got in trouble on the very first train trip to Hogwarts they year before when she first repaired Harry's glassses (and that time without any training whatsoever.)
shareIn the opening scene in the 3rd movie, harry is doing magic homework in his bedroom. This is also technically illegal. In the books, summer homework is all reading and essays.
All glory to the Hypnotoad
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It was all the worse that they ignored continuity for a masturbation joke. How would the ministry know that the magic was homework or not? Like I said, in the books, all summer homework is restricted to essays and reading.
All glory to the Hypnotoad
"How would the ministry know that the magic was homework or not?"
The ministry did not intrude into Hogwarts affairs (at that time) but I would think be fully informed as to coarse content. So if some practical homework was assigned, I'd think the ministry would know. So if the ministry detected Harry doing the lumos spell knowing it had been assigned as homework, I doubt there would be a problem as long as it was not done in front of a muggle.
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain (Isaac Asimov)
That was always a bit inconsistant in the books. In CoS, they could not tell magic done by an elf was not Harry who did the magic. But in OotP they could tell that all the magic done in the house by adult wizards was not Harry.
And while they could tell that the spell was a homework level spell, how did they know that he was not just doing magic because he could.
All glory to the Hypnotoad
"But in OotP they could tell that all the magic done in the house by adult wizards was not Harry."
I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Other that the lumos spell and some household magic (packing Harry;'s bags, cleaning up a little) I don't remember Moody and the others using much magic in that scene.
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain (Isaac Asimov)
I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Other that the lumos spell and some household magic (packing Harry;'s bags, cleaning up a little) I don't remember Moody and the others using much magic in that scene.
I would imagine the ministry did detect those uses of magic. But my impression was not so much that they were attempting to protect Harry from the ministry but rather from death eaters. So if the ministry detected the use of the magic it wouldn't make much difference. If the issue came up Moody and the others could declare their involvement.
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain (Isaac Asimov)
The minstry, that is, Fudge and Umbridge, were looking for an excuse, ANY excuse to expel Harry. He was on probation at that time. So Fudge could have arrested him right away. Or used this as another count of an indictment at the *hearing*. They were trying to discredid Harry with all means, so why should the Order, knowing this, deliver Fudge such a perfect point of attack?
And about Moody and the others declaring their involement:
1. Why should Fudge give a damn? He was not believing Harrys story, he was not even listening to it, his opinion was fixed.
2. That was a secret action of the Order. There were members involved who did not want to be seen (Kingsley e.g.). So if they put their heads ont the block, all would get worse.
I always hated that scene (the use of magic, that is) and nothing in this thead made in any better!
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This is just another example of the films messing up Rowling's rules (as was the homework at the beginning of PoA). In the book Hermione did not fix Harry's glasses in Diagon Alley. I think Mr. Weasley may have, but I don't remember for sure. It was probably meant only to refresh the audience's collective mind that Hermione is clever - a reintroduction of sorts.
shareOh please. They were on the Hogwarts Express at the time, so I am sure the Ministry of Magic is fine with them practicing on the train that was, oh I don't know, heading for the aforementioned school, given that there were obviously no Muggles to be seen, and we do see a few charms being performed on the train before departure in Deathly Hallows' epilogue. Yeah, this law really encourages the use of your imagination quite a bit.
shareHermione repaired Harry's glasses on the Hogwarts Express in Sorcerer's Stone. She repaired them at Diagon Alley outside the bookstore in Chamber of Secrets.
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain (Isaac Asimov)
there's some inconsistencies about that in the books as well as in the films.
in book 2 dobby does his hover charm, and harry gets the warning. in book 3 he blows up his aunt and the minister himself laughs it off. in book 4 we find out that there is a spell that reveals the last spell cast with a wand (which in the case of book 2 would prolly been the last spell done in school or maybe on the train home)
in book 5 harry defends himself and gets the book thrown at him, then he goes to live with a bunch of wizards and witches. did they send him away far enough for the underage magic detection not to respond to their magic?
anyways, whenever a spell is cast in diagon alley when kids are about, the detection thingie at the ministry either goes haywire or just ignores it. and the point of the restriction being the magical world staying secret, it'd be considered no real breach anyways.
I did not save the boy, God did. I only CARRIED him.share
It is explained in the books that the detection of underage magic can really only detect magic done is a place where there is not a normal wizarding population. (i.e. 4 Privit Drive, they knew Harry was the only wizard residing in the area, therefore they assumed he had done the Hover Charm.) In Diagon Alley or at the Burrow there would be magic occuring regularly, therefore the Ministry would have no way to know if it was underage wizards performing it or not.
I do however agree with the inconsistancies in book 5 when Moody disilousions Harry. That was a spell that should have been detected. In a way the movie followed the rules better because they used Polyjuice Potion instead, which, I'm assuming, can't be detected when in use the same way a spell/hex/charm would.
Are we sure Dumbledore didn't tell Fudge he was sending people to come get Harry in OOTP? If so, they would expect and excuse (and have no legal reasoning) magic to be done because it was an adult doing it.
shareDumbledore and Fudge were enemies at that time. And the Order of the Phoenix is a secret gathering. At the minstry, Kingsley and Mr. Weasley were very careful not to reveal that they are in the Order. So, YES, I am absolutely sure that Dumbledore did not tell Fudge that the Order collected Harry.
This is how I feel: http://tinyurl.com/d5b8pg
If your talking about sirius's house the head quarters for the order, the house was protected and cloaked so no one would have any clue about magic being performed there. Harry got in trouble when dobby did magic as he was the wizard who resided there and he got blamed. in book 3 fudge lets harry off with blowing up aunt marge because he believed sirius was after the boy and just wanted to get him into safety.
"*beep* me gently with a chainsaw" Heathers
Isn't there a rule where you can do little spell like the illuminating one and reparo, it's the big stuff like 'expecto patronum' or 'expelliarmus' that really gets their attention
shareMovie logic! This doesn't happen in the book, Arthur Weasley fixes them instead. But, Hermione couldn't have been expelled because all the Ministry can detect is that magic was used near the underage witch or wizard which, in Diagon Alley, could have been a whole host of people.
Unless an official shows up and made Hermione's wand show the last spell it cast, they couldn't know it was her. That's the slight flaw in Rowling's rule, because it also means anybody who has magical parents could cast spells at home and the Ministry wouldn't be able to tell who it was. How do you think Fred and George made all those puking pastilles?
Harry couldn't get away with it because he was the only person in the area that was magical.
How could she have been? These rules change however they are needed - in the movies as well as in the books. Where there are no consistent rules, there are no logical consequences.
shareHermione also did that on the train in the Philosopher's Stone (Sorcerer's Stone) and got away with it.
Guess it was meant to be like a running gag.
I think those rules only applied if there were muggles around so that they wouldn't risk to be exposed and thus expose magic itself.
Surely it wouldn't apply to Diagon Alley which is only for witches and wizards.
And besides, who would tell on two kids?
on the train use of magic was condoned. in the books we often see various students (the twins, Draco, others) use magic on the Hogwarts Express without penalty.
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain (Isaac Asimov)