Who should they cast as Johnny Cage? - Mortal Kombat (2021) Discussion

[–] Cognoscente (2642) 4 years ago

Either Daniel Bernhardt or Ryan Reynolds.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

If this movie came out 10-15 years ago, then yes, Reynolds would've been a great choice. Some new actor could play Cage if he's witty and charismatic enough. I didn't recognize anyone in this movie except the actors for Scorpion and Shang Tsung, so some unknown actor for Cage wouldn't be a stretch.

As long as Cage isn't done dirty and they don't go out of their way to make him unlikable. Since the writers already shared their disdain for white characters, I feel like they'd make Cage deal with some "MeToo" scandal or something, or downplay his combat abilities, or push some White Privilege crap on him, or even avoid pairing him with Sonya Blade because that might send the wrong message in today's world.

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[–] cyguration (3951) 4 years ago

Yeah this movie was awful, but the funny part about it was that the only charismatic and likable character in the whole film (that wasn't Scorpion) was Kano!

And no matter how they tried to villainize him he still stole the show from all the other diversity hires.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Same, I said in another post that Kano ended up being the best character. I don't wanna say he "carried the movie", but he kinda did 😄

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[–] thenewnexus (1911) 4 years ago

The Miz

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[–] FredBurroughs (21447) 4 years ago

Someone believable as a movie star who can pull off martial arts? It's gotta be Keanu.

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[–] LiquidOcelot (2399) 4 years ago

Keanu is like 73 years old.

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[–] 123 (543) 4 years ago

Scott Adkins - has the looks and definitely the full martial arts experience.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

But does he have the acting and charisma?

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[–] 123 (543) 4 years ago

yes he does, if you watch 'The Intergalactic Adventures of Max Cloud', 'Avengement' or the 'debt collector' movies which are all b grade movies they are actually good and his acting is quite good and he does has a charisma, definetley alot more then Lewis Tan who played Cole Young.

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[–] CastroEulis (381) 4 years ago

Scott Adkins there is no other!

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[–] beauq81 (1085) 4 years ago

Was gonna say the same thing. Just depends on how old they want Cage to be. If they want him in his late 20s - early 30s, then he won't do.

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[–] DracTarashV2 (4493) 4 years ago

The Miz is gonna fight for the role, I hear. XD That could work.

Would like someone with better acting credibility for the role (they can make most actors look good when it comes to fighting anyway), though it’s not like it’s gonna be big shoes to fill. Miz does have the looks and personality for it, but… I do like the idea of a legit Hollywood star being cast as Cage.

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[–] cyguration (3951) 4 years ago

The Miz isn't a martial artist, and time and time over again we see how awful martial arts films turn out when you cast non-martial artists to play key martial arts roles. It results in awful choreography, bad quick-cuts, awful editing, and a generally un-entertaining experience.

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[–] Goliard (1420) 4 years ago

Um.

Michelle Yeoh
Cheng Pei-pei
Keanu Reeves
Robin Shou
Jimmy Wang Yu

And many, many more would like to have a quiet chat w/you.

Fun fact: Bruce lee never had a black belt in any discipline, and Jet Li (as well as other well known actors) is Wu Shu, which is a discipline that does not award black belts (and is, strictly speaking, not a "combat" art).

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[–] 123 (543) 4 years ago

Goliard

You have to remember on film they are not punching or hitting like a martial arts contest, so black belt doesn't matter as long as you can perform it in front of the camera.

Michelle Yeoh & Cheng Pei-pei both studied ballet, which isn't martial arts but give you all the flexibility of being able to perform all the right moves.

Robin Shou & jet Li - trained in Wu-shu - which is cross between martial arts and ballet and shows in the performance.

Jimmy Wang Yu - his fighting wasn't really martial arts but more of a ballet act on the movies - old school movies didn't have hardcore punches or kicks but were more like sparring/ballet act - same as the old school jackie chan movies.

Keanu Reeves has limited martial arts training for his roles and is quite flexible and slim but even then you can tell his martial arts isn't nowhere near Van Damme, Tony Jaa, Scott Adkins or Michael Jai White level.

Bruce Lee studied wing chun but also alot of other forms of martial arts and took what he needed from them, so he had loads of experience from every form.

The Miz can punch and take a beating but is to bulky and heavy built that he just wouldn't be flexible to pull any decent martial arts moves or look to be able to either.

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[–] cyguration (3951) 4 years ago

Agreed on all points, and well stated.

And yeah, The Miz is NOT flexible. Daniel Bryan and him even had a shoot spat on a Talking Smack episode about the Miz's still being too "safe" and -- dare I say -- "fake".

Now if Daniel Bryan was in consideration of Johnny Cage I would have ZERO problems with his martial arts capabilities, because he can legit shoot, but Daniel Bryan DOES NOT in anyway look like, resemble, or act like Johnny Cage.

The only wrestlers who could be in consideration are people like John Morrison (who looks and acts like Johnny Cage, and has legitimate martial arts training and parkour, so he would look very believable on-screen), or maybe someone like Adam Cole, who has the charm, looks, and flexibility to pull off a convincing Johnny Cage.

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[–] Goliard (1420) 4 years ago

That's a particularly long-winded way to miss the point completely. The claim was that casting non martial artists resulted in poorly choreographed, badly put together movies. I simply provided a list of actors that prove that wrong. There are more (Crouching Tiger, etc), but I'm easily bored. And I assumed the point had been driven home sufficiently. Forgot I was on a moviechat board. . .sigh.

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[–] 123 (543) 4 years ago

Actually you missed my point completely from the reply.

I admit they aren't black belt martial artist but most of there background shows they have had some sort of experience whether it be ballet or acrobats or wu-shu which is a form very similar to martial arts looking wise, so that's why Michelle Yeoh even though she can't beat a girl/guy up in a real martial arts contest, she can do all the moves on camera to make it like she can, because she did ballet and can make all the right moves to look like she can.

None of the people you listed are newbies with no martial type experience who went onto become top martial art movie stars.

If you put the Miz, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Undertaker or Triple H in a movie don't epxect them to make good looking martial arts movies - no matter what camera angle or tricks you try to put in the film they won't look good as someone with some sort of experience in that field.

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[–] cyguration (3951) 4 years ago

If you put the Miz, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Undertaker or Triple H in a movie don't epxect them to make good looking martial arts movies - no matter what camera angle or tricks you try to put in the film they won't look good as someone with some sort of experience in that field.

I'm so glad you brought this point up, because Stone Cold was in several movies where he was paired up against martial artists and the results were as disastrous as you would expect.

The guy has charisma for days, but due to two bad knees and his preference for grappling, his fights against guys like Gary Daniels looked awful on-screen. It was a clumsy, poorly edited mess.

The Miz has even less training than Stone Cold, and I can only imagine how awful those fight scenes would turn out with him trying to fill the shoes of Johnny Cage.

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[–] 123 (543) 4 years ago

exactly, all these wwe guys could star in any decent action movie with punches and guns and look crap, good and even great depending on the choreography and angles but that's a whole different category then a martial arts movie.

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[–] Goliard (1420) 4 years ago

And round and round we go.

I'll try one more time: Your "point" such as it is, is irrelevant. THE CLAIM was that casting a non-martial artist in one of these movies made for a bad film. This is patently ridiculous: Michelle Yeoh was NOT a martial artist, when she started making (very good) movies. Zhang Ziyi was NOT a martial artist, when she starred in Crouching Tiger. I could go on and on, but you people seem determined to remain confused, so. . .good luck w/that.

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[–] 123 (543) 4 years ago

yes we do go round and round when you don't read the comments.

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[–] cyguration (3951) 4 years ago

Couple of corrections there, ace:
Robin Shou is a legitimate martial artist and has also competed in various martial arts competitions, check out his background here:
https://kungfukingdom.com/profile-of-robin-shou/

He also helped with the choreography in his fights in the 1995 Mortal Kombat film, and performed most of his own stunts (which is how he broke his ribs during the Reptile fight, which wasn't even supposed to be in the film and was a last minute addition, and it turned out to be one of the best fights in the film).

And Jimmy Wang Yu films weren't very well known for having elaborate choreography, especially compared to his peers who were producing some fantastic martial arts films around the same time, such as Gordon Liu, who is another legitimate martial artist, and Pai Wei. Also, Wang Yu's lack of martial arts earned him no fans on the set of The Man From Hong Kong, where that lack of experience legitimately got people hurt, which kind of further proves my point.

Also Keanu Reeves had EXTENSIVE training for The Matrix and John Wick. You can literally see his videos practicing his weapons handling, for whom some have said that he's nearly on competition level.

So it's not like Keanu is just "pretending" to be good at handling his hardware -- much like Steven Seagal, he's a legitimate marksman thanks to his relentless training regime and that's LITERALLY one of the biggest selling points of the John Wick series: Keanu Reeves' legitimacy in performing his own stunts and his on-screen combat expertise.

As for Michelle Yeoh and Cheng Pei-Pei... 123 addressed them in his comment.

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[–] Goliard (1420) 4 years ago

You said:
"time and time over again we see how awful martial arts films turn out when you cast non-martial artists to play key martial arts roles. It results in awful choreography, bad quick-cuts, awful editing, and a generally un-entertaining experience."

I gave you a bunch of actors who did movies that prove that wrong.

Can't help you much if you don't get that. . .it's pretty simple.

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[–] cyguration (3951) 4 years ago

You didn't though, you listed three, even though two of them had classical training in dance. The only odd one out was Jimmy Wang, and I already noted how that didn't fare well for him retrospectively.

The others were martial artists, even Keanu Reeves trained in judo before he did the Matrix, and then trained in additional martial arts for the Matrix.

So not only were you wrong but you kind of proved my point.

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[–] Goliard (1420) 4 years ago

??? So your response to me explaining to you that a martial artist isn't needed to make a good movie is that they're classically trained dancers?

Good grief.

Keanu Reeves was NOT a martial arts practitioner before the Matrix. Since then he's delved pretty deep, but he openly credits Yuen Woo-ping with not only making him look good in that film, but sparking his further interest. Michelle Yeoh was NOT a martial artist before she started making movies. "The others" were NOT either, but all that is just amplification: your initial claim is simply WRONG:

Having a "legit martial artist" is in NO WAY a prereq for making a good movie. There are COUNTLESS examples that prove this; whether you want to understand that or not.

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[–] cyguration (3951) 4 years ago

So your response to me explaining to you that a martial artist isn't needed to make a good movie is that they're classically trained dancers?

No, it's me explaining to you that TWO of the few people you pointed out had classical dance training, just like Patrick Swayze, who made some fantastic martial arts films due to his training in being flexible, learning choreography and proper form, which is really what it boils down to, and it's something many non-martial artists lack.

Keanu Reeves was NOT a martial arts practitioner before the Matrix. Since then he's delved pretty deep, but he openly credits Yuen Woo-ping with not only making him look good in that film, but sparking his further interest.

Except he did have some training before the Matrix, just not extensive training, as I mentioned in my previous post.

Michelle Yeoh was NOT a martial artist before she started making movies.

Except she already had the physical training from dance to excel in martial arts, and took it pretty seriously thereafter.

Having a "legit martial artist" is in NO WAY a prereq for making a good movie. There are COUNTLESS examples that prove this; whether you want to understand that or not.

Except you didn't provide countless examples, you cherry-picked exceptions that don't prove the rule and even in your cherry-picking you still proved my point, as evident with countless examples that range from The Bourne Identity with its shaky cam, to Resident Evil and Monster Hunter with its quick-cuts and sloppy editing, to Aeon Flux with its sloppy choreography, to any of Scarlet Johansson's films where more quick-cuts rule the day, to Halle Berry's Catwoman where even more sloppy editing and quick-cuts had to mask her lack of flexibility and form, to Prince of Persia where Jake Gyllenhaal needed plenty of stunt doubles and fancy camera work to also compensate for his lack of abilities.

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[–] Goliard (1420) 4 years ago

I just went from bored to fascinated. Wow. Okay, let's try this. You said:
"time and time over again we see how awful martial arts films turn out when you cast non-martial artists to play key martial arts roles."

I replied with a number of examples that prove that false. Apparently, this continues to confuse you. SO:

Let's do this. . .you support your claim w/movies where it's true, and I'll counter with ones that prove it's false. I'll even go first: Keanu in the Matrix, and Michelle Yeoh in Yes, Madam (her first starring role). Keanu was NOT a martial artist, in ANY sense of the word, and Michelle Yeoh was a ballet dancer/beauty pageant winner.
NEITHER of these films suffer from "awful choreography, bad quick-cuts, awful editing, and a generally un-entertaining experience."

Your turn.

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[–] cyguration (3951) 4 years ago

Your turn.

Reading comprehension problems? My entire last comment is a list of movies that prove my point. As I said, you named exceptions that don't prove the rule, I named a multitude of films that prove the rule.

Here they are AGAIN... for the SECOND TIME:
• The Bourne Identity with its shaky cam,
• Resident Evil and Monster Hunter with its quick-cuts and sloppy editing
• Aeon Flux with its sloppy choreography,
• Any of Scarlet Johansson's action films where more quick-cuts rule the day,
• Halle Berry's Catwoman where even more sloppy editing and quick-cuts had to mask her lack of flexibility and form,
• Prince of Persia where Jake Gyllenhaal needed plenty of stunt doubles and fancy camera work to also compensate for his lack of abilities.
• Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible II, where he couldn't seem to throw a kick without falling on his butt and it had to be masked with more deceptive editing/camerawork
• Chow Yun-Fat In Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (his fight scenes were once again masked with special effects, wire-fu and editing)
• Taylor Kitsch in John Carter of Mars
• Ja-Rule In Half-Past Dead
• DMX In Exit Wounds
• Gabrielle Union in Cradle 2 The Grave
• Christine Adams in Submerged
• Chad McQueen (pick a movie)
• Ruby Rose in John Wick 2 and SAS: Red Notice
• Halle Berry in John Wick 3 (everyone had to slow down for her and her choreography looked amateurish at best)
• Natasha Henstridge (any action film or show she's been in)
• Jay Chow In The Viral Factor (not one good fight scene and this poor kid really can't fight)
• Rain In Ninja Assassin (needed lots of CGI and more fancy camerawork to compensate for his lack of weapons training and lack of martial arts background in ninjitsu)

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[–] Goliard (1420) 4 years ago

• The Bourne Identity with its shaky cam
Not a martial arts movie; CERTAINLY not guilty of any of the faults you listed. Critical and commercial success; disproves your point.
• Resident Evil and Monster Hunter with its quick-cuts and sloppy editing
Not a martial arts movie
• Aeon Flux with its sloppy choreography,
NOT a martial arts movie
• Any of Scarlet Johansson's action films where more quick-cuts rule the day,
Name one. She did fine in all the Marvel movies.
• Halle Berry's Catwoman where even more sloppy editing and quick-cuts had to mask her lack of flexibility and form,
. . .Ok. But tell the truth: you'd watch Halle read the PHONE BOOK
• Prince of Persia where Jake Gyllenhaal needed plenty of stunt doubles and fancy camera work to also compensate for his lack of abilities.
Not a martial arts movie. Choreography was fine.
• Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible II, where he couldn't seem to throw a kick without falling on his butt and it had to be masked with more deceptive editing/camerawork
You're in a VANISHINGLY small minority if you think Tom Cruise doesn't do well as an action hero. Fail.
• Chow Yun-Fat In Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (his fight scenes were once again masked with special effects, wire-fu and editing)
You've gotta be kidding. Fail, period.

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[–] cyguration (3951) 4 years ago

Critical and commercial success; disproves your point.

This is called pushing the goalposts.

I never once said that casting non-martial artists in roles where a martial artist would have been better suited were commercial failures. There are plenty of movies where people with zero on-screen skill have managed to turn the movies into blockbuster successes, but that doesn't detract from my point about them not being suited for the role or making the martial arts look terrible in the film due to quick cuts, poor choreography and a lot of help from camerawork or special effects.

Not a martial arts movie. Choreography was fine.

No, it wasn't. You've obviously never played the newer games, where a lot of the appeal was on the amazing swordplay, a lot of which didn't really make it into the film.

If you have low standards then of course you would think the choreography was fine.

You're in a VANISHINGLY small minority if you think Tom Cruise doesn't do well as an action hero. Fail.

Non-sequitur. No one said anything about Tom Cruise as an action hero. Reading comprehension works wonders here because I explicitly mentioned Mission Impossible II, where Cruise couldn't seem to land a kick without falling on his butt and needed help from slow motion and lots of editing/camerawork to make the scenes look less ridiculous.

You've gotta be kidding. Fail, period.

Thanks for proving my point, since you don't even have an argument here. Rewatch Chow Yun-Fat's fight scenes in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. There's very little technique on display from him and a lot of it is hidden via wire-fu and special effects. That's because despite Yun-Fat being a great action star he's not a martial artist.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6094) 4 years ago

You can make an an actor look good for action scenes however it only goes so far. When you look at true talented physicality it shines through. For example Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Donnie Yen, Tony Jaa, Michael Jai White, Scott Adkins, Iko Uwais among many more. All of them are going to have much more believable fights than Matt Damon, Tom Cruise, or your average star that does not have those physical skills. See it is tough because even though the people I listed have more physical ability than most actors most of them do not have the acting chops like a Cruise or Damon or anyone else.

Then though Damon or Cruise do not have the physical ability of someone like Adkins. So you have a tough choice on your hands. Some characters don't take much acting ability therefore if the character is simply about physical gifts then you should no doubt cast a talented physical performer.

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[–] cyguration (3951) 4 years ago

Damon and Cruise for dramatic thrillers, action adventures, and sci-fi work great when you need their acting to anchor the film.

Mortal Kombat is a martial arts action film, and as evident with the 1995 film, it only really worked because there was a cohesive story to tie together a lot of well choreographed action sequences performed by legitimate martial artists. Funnily enough, the WORST fight scene in the film was with Sonya and Kano and that's because the actress really had no physical skills for fighting, so the fight was sloppily done and they needed to speed up the frame-rate and use a lot of camera tricks to cover for her lack of agility.

Casting someone like the Miz as Johnny Cage is great if all you plan to do is have him spout one-liners and never fight, but now once the fighting starts you run into the issue where you need to rely on stunt doubles and quick-editing to cover for his inability to fight and lack of agility. If it was a romantic comedy, an action comedy, or some other non-martial arts flick, that would be fine, but Mortal Kombat is built on characters with strong fighting prowess, and that's not something the Miz possess.

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[–] moviefanatic505 (6094) 4 years ago

Yep I agree with that.

I am willing to sacrifice acting for good physical strengths in a film like Mortal Kombat. Ever watch films like The Raid? Is the story anything deep? Nope but the action and stunt work is stunning and fantastic. The story while not deep is at least cohesive. That is all you need for a Mortal Kombat film.

I think Scott Adkins would be a perfect Johnny Cage.

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[–] Kowalski (75523) 4 years ago

LOOKS LIKE EVERYONE IS THINKING THE MIZ OR SCOTT ADKINS...BOTH ARE COOL.

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[–] UncleRuckis (2627) 4 years ago

As much as I love Scott Adkins, I don't know about him for Johnny Cage. He'd make a badass Smoke!

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[–] Heisenberg (6730) 4 years ago

JCVD

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[–] 123 (543) 4 years ago

20-30 years ago but not now when he's 61

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[–] Heisenberg (6730) 4 years ago

Now, with some de ageing fx. As long as he can do his splits, he's golden.

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[–] msegmx (444) 4 years ago

Question is, can he? IIRC they reused the shot of his famous "roundhouse kick" in the Expandables movie he was in. Too old to do it again?

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[–] Heisenberg (6730) 4 years ago

Well, he'd better get in shape again then!

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[–] 123 (543) 4 years ago

De-aging only looks half decent when its kept to a minimum and anymore then that and you get moustache gate with justice league, ridiculous rock mimic in scorpion king or uncanny valley with rogue one.

The cost would be ridiculous and more then multiple films.

The speeds of cgi fighting wouldn't be worth the effort.

Plus in order to do de-ageing they will be using a stand in actor that looks like van damme, so may aswell just use that actor as the person instead, cheaper and easier and more cost efficient.

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